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Old 9th August 2019, 12:34 PM   #521
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
Please tells us more about the highlighted it may make Brexit worthwhile.
You beat me.too it.

Farage should have led with this...I'm almost converted
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:00 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Which doesn't apply to lamb, as for example the EU tariff-free quota for New Zealand (you know, where a third of the lamb we consume comes from) has not been exceeded since 2011. The same applies to Australia's smaller quota.
Yeah the New Zealand Lamb thing was negotiated after French agents sunk the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior in NZ waters resulting in the death of a photographer. That gave NZ great bargaining power with the French and NZ then handed over the French agents long before their punishment was complete "coincidentally" at the same time the new deal on lamb was agreed.

But NZ still has a lot less sheep than it did before the EU (or EEC as it was then) slapped huge tariffs on them, decimating their sheep farming.

Last edited by ceptimus; 9th August 2019 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:12 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
Please tells us more about the highlighted it may make Brexit worthwhile.
Oopsie...
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:14 PM   #524
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
thick twats
I thought this sort of childish gratuitous insult wasn't allowed on this forum.
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Old 9th August 2019, 10:31 PM   #525
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The government is confident about being able to patrol British waters post no-deal Brexit despite not having enough boats:

Quote:
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.

The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times the size of the surface area of the UK".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778

Quote:
Admiral Lord West, a Labour peer and former First Sea Lord, said the email appeared to show the UK has "insufficient assets to patrol and look after our exclusive economic zone for fisheries and also our territorial seas.

"This will be thrown into stark relief if we should cease to have an agreement with the EU on fisheries."
The government ship of fools sails blithely on

Quote:
A government spokesperson confirmed an internal email concerned with the "veracity and details of media enquiries" had been "inadvertently sent outside of Defra".

They said: "Britain is leaving the EU on Oct 31 with or without a deal.

"We are confident that we will have the ships and the expertise we need to properly enforce security in UK waters."
As well as a magic money tree, the government also seems to have a magic boat bush
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Old 9th August 2019, 10:37 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post

I think all subsidies to farmers and other industries are a bad thing. We should eliminate subsidies entirely in the UK and have completely free trade deals with other countries that do likewise. We should slap import tariffs on imports from countries that do subsidize, to cancel out the effects of those subsidies.

Well, so that trade deal with the US...
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Old 9th August 2019, 11:36 PM   #527
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Well, so that trade deal with the US...
Or any other major economy AFAIK....

It will be very interesting to see how things play out for Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit. I'm not an expert on these things but I imagine that for expediency, a lot of Ireland's trade with continental Europe is transported by lorry through the UK. If a no deal Brexit results in tariffs, then I'm not sure how trans-shipments like these will be handled. Trade between Ireland and the rest of the EU will be tariff-free but that between the UK and EU will be subject to tariffs. How will the UK ensure that trans-shipments aren't "lost" on the way ?

Does this mean an end to the "land bridge" and instead shipments will have to come directly into Irish ports with all that means in terms of cost and time delays ?

Will trans-shipments have to effectively "in bond" or will tariffs have to be paid on entering the UK but then rebated when the good have been shown to exit the UK and enter Ireland ?

However it plays out, it looks like a world of opportunities for the smugglers, especially as the UK will be short of all kinds of goods in the post no-deal Brexit world.

Here at Don Towers we have started a modest stockpile of non-perishable goods so as to smooth any transition. When people did this ahead of the last Brexit deadline, I thought they were being a bit silly but this time around I'm not so sure. We're also making sure that our oil tank is brimmed. This should give us about 12 months of heating and hot water - 18+ months if we're parsimonious, don't switch on the AGA and have a couple of mild winters.
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Old 10th August 2019, 01:15 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Or any other major economy AFAIK....

It will be very interesting to see how things play out for Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit. I'm not an expert on these things but I imagine that for expediency, a lot of Ireland's trade with continental Europe is transported by lorry through the UK.
Yup.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If a no deal Brexit results in tariffs, then I'm not sure how trans-shipments like these will be handled. Trade between Ireland and the rest of the EU will be tariff-free but that between the UK and EU will be subject to tariffs. How will the UK ensure that trans-shipments aren't "lost" on the way ?
Magic unknown technology, apparently.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Does this mean an end to the "land bridge" and instead shipments will have to come directly into Irish ports with all that means in terms of cost and time delays ?
Pretty much.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Will trans-shipments have to effectively "in bond" or will tariffs have to be paid on entering the UK but then rebated when the good have been shown to exit the UK and enter Ireland ?
That is a UK internal matter.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
However it plays out, it looks like a world of opportunities for the smugglers, especially as the UK will be short of all kinds of goods in the post no-deal Brexit world.
Oh those people will be making an awful lot of hay.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Here at Don Towers we have started a modest stockpile of non-perishable goods so as to smooth any transition. When people did this ahead of the last Brexit deadline, I thought they were being a bit silly but this time around I'm not so sure. We're also making sure that our oil tank is brimmed. This should give us about 12 months of heating and hot water - 18+ months if we're parsimonious, don't switch on the AGA and have a couple of mild winters.
I'm sorry, I can offer no comfort. I was a y2k cynic. When my sister stocked up before it, I was happily able to logically demolish it. And nothing promptly happened. Brexit? Not so much.
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Old 10th August 2019, 01:27 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
I'm sorry, I can offer no comfort. I was a y2k cynic. When my sister stocked up before it, I was happily able to logically demolish it. And nothing promptly happened. Brexit? Not so much.
Well, people like me spent a long time fixing the systems that would have failed for sure. And I did stock up

But Brexit is y2k without the work being done to prevent the chaos.

The irony is that a hard Brexit means the B household will be packing up and heading right back into the UK carnage. Strange world.
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Old 10th August 2019, 01:30 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Yeah the New Zealand Lamb thing was negotiated after French agents sunk the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior in NZ waters resulting in the death of a photographer. That gave NZ great bargaining power with the French and NZ then handed over the French agents long before their punishment was complete "coincidentally" at the same time the new deal on lamb was agreed.
Do you have a reliable source for this claim?

Quote:
But NZ still has a lot less sheep than it did before the EU (or EEC as it was then) slapped huge tariffs on them, decimating their sheep farming.
Figures, please.
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Old 10th August 2019, 03:35 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
I thought this sort of childish gratuitous insult wasn't allowed on this forum.
Is that a change of topic to run away from your complete inability to comprehend tariffs?
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Old 10th August 2019, 03:37 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
But NZ still has a lot less sheep than it did before the EU (or EEC as it was then) slapped huge tariffs on them, decimating their sheep farming.
Yet you advocate us leaving on a no deal brexit which will slap the same huge EU tariffs on our exports which will by your own example decimate our industries.
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Old 10th August 2019, 03:41 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Do you have a reliable source for this claim?



Figures, please.
Add NZ sheep farming to how borders work, basic economics, tariffs, anything to do with Scotland and democracy to the list of things Brexiteers know nothing about.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/76715640/

Meat production has increased signinficantly but its the wool industry that has disappeared largely. Not a mention of the EU
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Old 10th August 2019, 03:46 AM   #534
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
You're just deliberately pretending to be stupid. Once again, read slowly....
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
It's just stupid.
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
No. You're just unable to read and comprehend. .
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Again this is kindergarten stuff.
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
I thought this sort of childish gratuitous insult wasn't allowed on this forum.
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Old 10th August 2019, 04:24 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Is that a change of topic to run away from your complete inability to comprehend tariffs?
Another baseless assertion. I understand them completely, regardless of your opinion.
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Old 10th August 2019, 04:27 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Stupid is a common word, used by children even, that describes stupid people and stupid things. And I did say you were 'pretending to be stupid' - which you were. Twat is a vulgar slang term for the female genitalia. I'm surprised the auto-censor doesn't **** it out. Spot the difference?

Last edited by ceptimus; 10th August 2019 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 10th August 2019, 04:29 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Stupid is a common word, used by children even, that describes stupid people and stupid things. And I did say you were 'pretending to be stupid.' Twat is a vulgar slang term for the female genitalia. Spot the difference?
Yes, the difference was that my comment was not aimed specifically at you, it was a general expression about my day.
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Old 10th August 2019, 04:31 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Do you have a reliable source for this claim?



Figures, please.
You could try Wikipedia, assuming you trust it as a "reliable source".
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Old 10th August 2019, 04:38 AM   #539
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The government is confident about being able to patrol British waters post no-deal Brexit despite not having enough boats:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778



The government ship of fools sails blithely on



As well as a magic money tree, the government also seems to have a magic boat bush
So long as the public gets to name the boats, we will be happy.
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Old 10th August 2019, 04:43 AM   #540
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Or any other major economy AFAIK....

It will be very interesting to see how things play out for Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit. I'm not an expert on these things but I imagine that for expediency, a lot of Ireland's trade with continental Europe is transported by lorry through the UK. If a no deal Brexit results in tariffs, then I'm not sure how trans-shipments like these will be handled. Trade between Ireland and the rest of the EU will be tariff-free but that between the UK and EU will be subject to tariffs. How will the UK ensure that trans-shipments aren't "lost" on the way ?

Does this mean an end to the "land bridge" and instead shipments will have to come directly into Irish ports with all that means in terms of cost and time delays ?

Will trans-shipments have to effectively "in bond" or will tariffs have to be paid on entering the UK but then rebated when the good have been shown to exit the UK and enter Ireland ?

However it plays out, it looks like a world of opportunities for the smugglers, especially as the UK will be short of all kinds of goods in the post no-deal Brexit world.

Here at Don Towers we have started a modest stockpile of non-perishable goods so as to smooth any transition. When people did this ahead of the last Brexit deadline, I thought they were being a bit silly but this time around I'm not so sure. We're also making sure that our oil tank is brimmed. This should give us about 12 months of heating and hot water - 18+ months if we're parsimonious, don't switch on the AGA and have a couple of mild winters.
I also posted this story elsewhere with some more quotes:
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Don't be so pessimistic, it's all going to be fine:

It's going to be fine:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...-odds-Boris-UK





I'm not sure the news story justifies the headline. A favourite tactic of the Express, where the stories can be reasonable, but the headlines are way out of kilter with them. A particularly invidious technique, because there's nothing in the story that's particularly wrong - or memorable, but the headline, which is memorable is completely inaccurate.
Quote:
The Tory MP for Monmouth replied: “I think we’re perfectly well prepared for it, actually we were months ago. Again I went up to speak to the Head of the Port of Holyhead, which is the main crossing point for the Republic of Ireland, they said they were prepared months ago for it.

“They couldn’t understand why members of Parliament were talking of these doomsday scenarios, they basically said ‘it’s created a bit of work for us and it’s all very inconvenient. But it’s not going to be a major problem because we cope with it.’

“This was months ago, there have been serious attempts since Boris got in, and a serious attempt now, to make sure everything is sorted out in order that things go smoothly.
Which led to the following exchange:

Originally Posted by jimbob
Originally Posted by TopBadger
The port at holyhead will cope ok? Phew!... is that supposed to infer dover-calais will be fine too? Thats a different kettle of fish.

The US is our biggest trading partner? I wonder what definition or criteria is being used there...

DD. What a knob.
Of course it will cope. Currently lots of trade between Ireland and continental Europe goes through the UK through Holyhead.

After Brexit, it will be cheaper to sail direct between Dublin to mainland Europe than through the UK with two lots of undefined customs delays.
followed by this:

Originally Posted by nekomatic
Originally Posted by jimbob
After Brexit, it will be cheaper to sail direct between Dublin to mainland Europe than through the UK with two lots of undefined customs delays.
CONGESTION SLASHED ON A55 AND M6: ANOTHER BRILLIANT BREXIT BENEFIT!
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Old 10th August 2019, 04:49 AM   #541
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Meanwhile this has just popped up on my facebook feed:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ion-for-the-uk

With the comment that "project fear" looks like "project reality".
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Old 10th August 2019, 05:10 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Yeah the New Zealand Lamb thing was negotiated after French agents sunk the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior in NZ waters resulting in the death of a photographer. That gave NZ great bargaining power with the French and NZ then handed over the French agents long before their punishment was complete "coincidentally" at the same time the new deal on lamb was agreed.

But NZ still has a lot less sheep than it did before the EU (or EEC as it was then) slapped huge tariffs on them, decimating their sheep farming.
In other words we decided our own lamb market couldn't compete with NZ so we made it more expensive for their exports to the UK.

Why after Brexit won't our farmers continue to require such protection from the market?
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Old 10th August 2019, 05:25 AM   #543
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Yet you advocate us leaving on a no deal brexit which will slap the same huge EU tariffs on our exports which will by your own example decimate our industries.
Well as Ceptimus has made clear he is good with that, he wants us to remove all protections from our farmers and manufacturers and leave them exposed to unfettered exports.
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Old 10th August 2019, 05:59 AM   #544
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Ceptimus, may I ask why you are so blase about your own job prospects after Brexit?

I know some would benefit - but I really don't want to retrain from being an engineer to being a bailiff, for example.
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Old 10th August 2019, 06:24 AM   #545
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Another baseless assertion. I understand them completely, regardless of your opinion.
Either you dont understand them or you think lying about them is ok because we won't understand how wrong you are. Which is it?
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Old 10th August 2019, 06:30 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Well as Ceptimus has made clear he is good with that, he wants us to remove all protections from our farmers and manufacturers and leave them exposed to unfettered exports.
He literally just says whatever he thinks he needs to say to make Brexit not stupid. He doesnt care how ridiculous it has to be.

And somehow seems to think that Leave voters including farmers fisherman car workers Northern Irish people, people who like eating, people who like being able to afford medicine and people who generally dont want to live in a 1930s throwback agree with all his arsewaffle
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:06 AM   #547
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
You could try Wikipedia, assuming you trust it as a "reliable source".
No, that's not how it works. You made the claims, so it's up to you to back them up when challenged.
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:30 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
You could try Wikipedia, assuming you trust it as a "reliable source".
And what might one search for? New Zealand lamb? Rainbow warrior? The page on the Sinking of the Rainbow Warrior doesn't include the words 'lamb' or 'tariff'.

Show your sources please.

Reality behind the Rainbow Warrior outrage

is, however, an interesting read.
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:58 AM   #549
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And of course NZ lamb farmers support a no deal Brexit to gain unfettered access to the UK, right?
Right?
Erm....nope.

https://beeflambnz.com/news-views/update-brexit
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Old 10th August 2019, 08:39 AM   #550
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I also posted this story elsewhere with some more quotes:

Which led to the following exchange:


followed by this:
I have the misfortune to have that idiot as my MP
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Old 10th August 2019, 08:43 AM   #551
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Another baseless assertion. I understand them completely, regardless of your opinion.
In fact no. You have proved that you have absolutely no clue on what tariffs are and how they work in practice. Something I could explain and make understand in less than one hour to a 10 y.o. kid.
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Old 10th August 2019, 09:49 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
You could try Wikipedia, assuming you trust it as a "reliable source".
Or you could cite actual sources for your claims. For once.
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Old 10th August 2019, 10:12 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Or you could cite actual sources for your claims. For once.
Or at least a link to the wikipedia article stating this. Hopefully it won't have [citation needed] by it.
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Old 10th August 2019, 12:03 PM   #554
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Or at least a link to the wikipedia article stating this. Hopefully it won't have [citation needed] by it.
Seriously, the underwear gnomes have better thought out arguments than some of the stuff said by Brexiteers.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:40 AM   #555
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Secret plans to put British firms into administration after a no-deal Brexit, from Sky News:

Quote:
The Government has drawn up a secret list of British employers that could be forced into administration under a no deal Brexit. Political reporter
@robpowellnews
has more.

If I understand correctly, this is being called 'Operation Kingfisher' and couched as 'support' which I suppose sounds more positive than 'place in administration'.

Quote:
A watch list of businesses that could be damaged by Brexit and may need to be supported with public money has been drawn up by the government.

The exercise, known as "Operation Kingfisher", was confirmed for the first time by cabinet minister in charge of no deal preparations Michael Gove.

Speaking to journalists in Belfast, he said the scheme "will be there so any businesses that may be temporarily affected by changes of circumstances that are related to Brexit can be supported".

It is thought fewer than 1,000 businesses are on the list, which includes several from the construction and manufacturing sector that are at risk because of their supply chains.

'In Administration' is often the first step into Liquidation, either voluntary or compulsory.

The Administrator (a licensed insolvency practitioner) takes control of the running of the company, often with a view to selling the business on or allowing a management buy out. If the creditors or members of the company are amenable, it will go into 'voluntary' liquidation, the creditors paid off (usually at a rate less than they are owed) or a compulsory liquidation if it cannot pay its bills. HMRC is often the first to petition for liquidation to recoup unpaid taxes, so by this method, the government can get its hand on tax which otherwise would have been evaded or avoided.


As I see it, going into Administration is only positive if the firm succeeds in continuing to operate. Usually, it is the first step in the road to ruin.
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Last edited by Vixen; 11th August 2019 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:55 AM   #556
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Another baseless assertion.
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
You could try Wikipedia, assuming you trust it as a "reliable source".

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Old 11th August 2019, 10:04 AM   #557
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In a revelation that will probably surprise no-one Dominic Cummings, BoJo's crony and Brexit enforcer is a hypocrite.

With members of his family he owns a farm that's benefit from "EU handouts" (his preferred term) to the tune of a quarter-million Euro. This is despite his frequent and strident attacks on the use of agricultural subsidies "dreamed up in the 1950s and 1960s" which "raise prices for the poor to subsidise rich farmers while damaging agriculture in Africa".

Cummings, BoJo, the UKGov and the Conservative party have all refused to make any comment.

Guardian story.
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Old 11th August 2019, 10:46 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Secret plans to put British firms into administration after a no-deal Brexit, from Sky News:
That's not what it means. It means that certain firms could be forced, by economic conditions, into becoming insolvent, rather than that the government has secret plans to force them into administration itself.

Dave
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Old 11th August 2019, 10:48 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
'In Administration' is often the first step into Liquidation, either voluntary or compulsory.

The Administrator (a licensed insolvency practitioner) takes control of the running of the company, often with a view to selling the business on or allowing a management buy out. If the creditors or members of the company are amenable, it will go into 'voluntary' liquidation, the creditors paid off (usually at a rate less than they are owed) or a compulsory liquidation if it cannot pay its bills. HMRC is often the first to petition for liquidation to recoup unpaid taxes, so by this method, the government can get its hand on tax which otherwise would have been evaded or avoided.


As I see it, going into Administration is only positive if the firm succeeds in continuing to operate. Usually, it is the first step in the road to ruin.

And it results in an automatic deduction of 12 points.
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Old 11th August 2019, 10:53 AM   #560
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
That's not what it means. It means that certain firms could be forced, by economic conditions, into becoming insolvent, rather than that the government has secret plans to force them into administration itself.

Dave
If a firm is no longer an ongoing (profitable) concern it is legally obliged to wind up.

Banks aren't going to risk handing out loans except at high interest, which won't help a struggling firm.

The government is hardly going to give a loan to a firm that will struggle to pay it back when public funds are short already.

I expect the names of the companies on the 'secret list' are former nationalised industries, such as steel, railways and energy. May as well re-nationalise them if they are to receive subsidisation by the state (=the taxpayer).

BTW 'In Administration' is a category of insolvency.
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