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Tags Allan Kardec , life after death , spiritism , spiritualism

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Old 22nd August 2019, 11:19 PM   #521
Squeegee Beckenheim
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You'll note here that despite whining about how nobody is prepared to discuss the evidence he presents, Ricardo refuses to even cite a specific page in a specific book that supposedly backs up a claim he's made.

He doesn't actually want to discuss his claims - he wants to avoid discussing them, while also playing the poor victim that everybody else is too closed-minded to take seriously.

This is why he also avoided talking to Scorpion, who has the same beliefs as Ricardo.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 11:49 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
spirit embodied in the boy in white clothing! the man lying on the floor was a victim of the spirit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlkixQ11ME0
You must surely be joking. This is a bunch of grifters fooling people. I hope you haven't given any of these people your money. Otherwise you are as big a fool as they are.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:20 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
why do you think there is no life after death?
Why do you think there is life after death?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 04:13 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
spirit embodied in the boy in white clothing! the man lying on the floor was a victim of the spirit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlkixQ11ME0
What is there in this video that you think could not be replicated if spirits didn't exist?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 04:15 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
a spirit embodying a woman in this video! from 06:40 of the video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7FBJS1reLU
If you wanted to fake this video, how would you go about it? Do you think it would be possible to do?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 06:52 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
What is there in this video that you think could not be replicated if spirits didn't exist?
Hey, no fair asking questions about the videos!
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:42 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
spirit embodied in the boy in white clothing! the man lying on the floor was a victim of the spirit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlkixQ11ME0
I can post a video of myself writhing on the floor. Is that evidence of anything?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:48 AM   #528
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Hey, stop moving so fast. I am still making my in depth study of the movie Ghost with Patrick Swayze. Whoopi G still hasn't responded how she seen him.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 02:36 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
spirit embodied in the boy in white clothing! the man lying on the floor was a victim of the spirit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlkixQ11ME0
Spirits in my hallway, Ricardo. What do you make of these?

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Old 23rd August 2019, 03:32 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Spirits in my hallway, Ricardo. What do you make of these?

https://i.imgur.com/XoWNj1E.jpg
read this https://www.ranker.com/list/investig...aroline-cooney
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Old 23rd August 2019, 04:00 PM   #531
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post

I think you are possessed by the spirit of gullibility Ricardo.

Do not despair however, help is at hand, as for a small fee I can expel this demon. Well not that small a fee, because I need to purchase a pig to put the demon in, before I push it over a cliff.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 08:41 PM   #532
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Most skeptics claim to believe only what is proved. It is implicit in this claim that they will not believe what is not proved. If they don't believe in spirits and the afterlife, then they should be able to explain why they reject the evidence that is said to demonstrate their existence. In fact, most skeptics have no reluctance to explain why they reject the evidence for spirits and the afterlife.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:26 PM   #533
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Correct, the evidence doesn't hold water and isn't repeatable. Mundane events can explain what we perceive as spirits. Thus it is rejected.

Would you have it any other way?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:54 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
Most skeptics claim to believe only what is proved. It is implicit in this claim that they will not believe what is not proved.
You have this completely wrong. Skeptics accept claims for which there is good evidence for. If there is no good evidence, a skeptic will reject the claim. It’s that simple.

Quote:
If they don't believe in spirits and the afterlife, then they should be able to explain why they reject the evidence that is said to demonstrate their existence.
Because it’s pretty terrible evidence. Photos are easily faked. The videos you posted are easily faked. Table tipping is a well-known trick. Everything purported to be evidence of such phenomena are replicable by trickery. There is just absolutely no good evidence that spirits and the afterlife exist. Punto.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:14 PM   #535
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In most cases it's not even trickery that causes false beliefs, it's just well known and well understood cognitive biases that lead us to think we see patterns that aren't really there. Those cognitive biases are the reason the scientific method had to be invented, so we wouldn't inadvertantly fool ourselves into believing in spirits and other nonsense.
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Old 24th August 2019, 12:25 AM   #536
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Ricardo, you posted a couple of videos for discussion. I've tried to engage you in discussion about them, but you've ignored my questions. Why?
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Old 24th August 2019, 02:58 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Ricardo, you posted a couple of videos for discussion. I've tried to engage you in discussion about them, but you've ignored my questions. Why?
present or show empirical evidence of the NOT existence of spirits.
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Old 24th August 2019, 03:23 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
present or show empirical evidence of the NOT existence of spirits.
If you insist.

I have linked to a video of this before, but I can't find it right now.
This will do, though.
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-physi...ence-of-ghosts

We can observe particles, and everything that interacts with them. Remove what we know ( gravity etc.), and there is nothing left. There is no 'spiritual force' interacting with the physical world: if there was, we would be able to detect and measure it in some way. If it does not affect us in any way, then it can be safely considered to be either non-existent, or, even if it does exist, it cannot affect us in any way, and therefore is as good as non-existent.

If you cannot explain why this does not convince you, if you can't explain what is wrong with this, then you probably don't really understand this, or you're not really trying to understand it, or you have no valid argument against it.
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Old 24th August 2019, 03:35 AM   #539
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
present or show empirical evidence of the NOT existence of spirits.
That's not how burden of proof works. And it means that we have to ignore the fact that I've already demonstrated that the books you linked to say that we must discount the existence of spirits if the (incorrect) science in them is found to be incorrect.

But okay. If I do, will you agree to discuss some of the things you've posted?

Here, physicist Sean Carroll explains why the Standard Model of physics rules out the possibility:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 24th August 2019, 04:20 AM   #540
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
The argument that "there is no evidence" or "it doesn't convince me", is actually a rhetorical device and not appropriate in a supposedly rational debate. If a skeptic can't explain why the evidence doesn't convince him, if he can't explain what is wrong with the evidence, then he probably doesn't really know what the evidence is, or he is not really trying to understand the evidence, or he has no valid argument against the evidence.
A sceptic CAN explain why the evidence doesn't convince him and what is wrong with it. This forum is stuffed full of examples of sceptics doing just that. Give an example of the evidence YOU find convincing and I (and others) will be delighted to explain to you why it does not convince us. Such explanations will almost certainly include references to the cognitive biases I referred to, about which you would have already educated yourself if you had the slightest interest in establishing the truth (or otherwise) of your beliefs.
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Old 24th August 2019, 04:45 AM   #541
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Give an example of the evidence YOU find convincing and I (and others) will be delighted to explain to you why it does not convince us.
It's been done. He avoids any discussion of what he has posted.
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:14 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
If you insist.

I have linked to a video of this before, but I can't find it right now.
This will do, though.
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-physi...ence-of-ghosts

We can observe particles, and everything that interacts with them. Remove what we know ( gravity etc.), and there is nothing left. There is no 'spiritual force' interacting with the physical world: if there was, we would be able to detect and measure it in some way. If it does not affect us in any way, then it can be safely considered to be either non-existent, or, even if it does exist, it cannot affect us in any way, and therefore is as good as non-existent.

If you cannot explain why this does not convince you, if you can't explain what is wrong with this, then you probably don't really understand this, or you're not really trying to understand it, or you have no valid argument against it.
I believe in the existence of spirits ... because I've had my own experiences ... spirits can cause pain in people ... this happened to me ... a friend who is magnetizing through magnetic fluid has removed the spirit and the pain that I felt over in a matter of seconds!
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:19 AM   #543
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" even if it does exist, it cannot affect us in any way, and therefore is as good as non-existent.'

can affect yes ... the pains I felt is an example ... so they exist ...
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:23 AM   #544
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
A sceptic CAN explain why the evidence doesn't convince him and what is wrong with it. This forum is stuffed full of examples of sceptics doing just that. Give an example of the evidence YOU find convincing and I (and others) will be delighted to explain to you why it does not convince us. Such explanations will almost certainly include references to the cognitive biases I referred to, about which you would have already educated yourself if you had the slightest interest in establishing the truth (or otherwise) of your beliefs.
the spirits pained me ... it happened twice ... with a pain can end the instant of the application of magnetic fluid ... every intelligent effect has an intelligent cause.
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:29 AM   #545
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
Answer the question I asked, don't distract by hurling an irrelevant link.
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:31 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That's not how burden of proof works. And it means that we have to ignore the fact that I've already demonstrated that the books you linked to say that we must discount the existence of spirits if the (incorrect) science in them is found to be incorrect.

But okay. If I do, will you agree to discuss some of the things you've posted?

Here, physicist Sean Carroll explains why the Standard Model of physics rules out the possibility:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
I don't want Sean Carroll's explanation ... I want your explanation ... I want your evidence that spirits DO NOT EXIST.
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:33 AM   #547
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Answer the question I asked, don't distract by hurling an irrelevant link.
What was your question ?
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:34 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
the spirits pained me ... it happened twice ... with a pain can end the instant of the application of magnetic fluid ... every intelligent effect has an intelligent cause.
Indeed, and that cause is well known and well understood. It isn't spirits.
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:41 AM   #549
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
If you insist.

I have linked to a video of this before, but I can't find it right now.
This will do, though.
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-physi...ence-of-ghosts

We can observe particles, and everything that interacts with them. Remove what we know ( gravity etc.), and there is nothing left. There is no 'spiritual force' interacting with the physical world: if there was, we would be able to detect and measure it in some way. If it does not affect us in any way, then it can be safely considered to be either non-existent, or, even if it does exist, it cannot affect us in any way, and therefore is as good as non-existent.

If you cannot explain why this does not convince you, if you can't explain what is wrong with this, then you probably don't really understand this, or you're not really trying to understand it, or you have no valid argument against it.
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
I believe in the existence of spirits ... because I've had my own experiences ... spirits can cause pain in people ... this happened to me ... a friend who is magnetizing through magnetic fluid has removed the spirit and the pain that I felt over in a matter of seconds!
Ahem.
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:44 AM   #550
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
I don't want Sean Carroll's explanation ... I want your explanation ... I want your evidence that spirits DO NOT EXIST.
I provided it, and you have ignored it.
Squeegee Beckenheim provided more, and you ignored that as well.
I explained the evidence to you, and you ignored that.
Methinks this is not a genuine request. If you want evidence, you should try looking at the evidence. It's that easy.
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:56 AM   #551
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I provided it, and you have ignored it.
Squeegee Beckenheim provided more, and you ignored that as well.
I explained the evidence to you, and you ignored that.
Methinks this is not a genuine request. If you want evidence, you should try looking at the evidence. It's that easy.
I believe in the existence of spirits ... because I've had my own experiences ... spirits can cause pain in people ... this happened to me ... a friend who is magnetizing through magnetic fluid has removed the spirit and the pain that I felt over in a matter of seconds!

Do you claim that spirits do not exist? is this your belief?
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:58 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Indeed, and that cause is well known and well understood. It isn't spirits.
what is the cause of my pain?
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Old 24th August 2019, 06:03 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by slythe View Post
Define it! Please!
Funny, isn't it, how all those who like to use this word, when challenged to define it, are totally unable to do so?! Also quite sad, really.



ETA I see this is on page 5 so I might have posted already! Apologies to all if I have as it will almost certainly e a repeat!!

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Old 24th August 2019, 06:12 AM   #554
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Originally Posted by SusanB-M1 View Post
Funny, isn't it, how all those who like to use this word, when challenged to define it, are totally unable to do so?! Also quite sad, really.
The only way to solve this is to present evidence of its NOT existence.
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Old 24th August 2019, 06:17 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
what is the cause of my pain?
Lots of things can cause pain. Spirits are not known to be a cause of pain.

What is your evidence that your pain was caused by spirits?

Why did you say recently that you no longer believe in spirits?
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Old 24th August 2019, 06:34 AM   #556
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
Lots of things can cause pain. Spirits are not known to be a cause of pain.

What is your evidence that your pain was caused by spirits?

Why did you say recently that you no longer believe in spirits?
I was just testing you .. I believe in the existence of spirits ... one day a spirit caused a pain in my abdomen so strong that I could not stand up!
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Old 24th August 2019, 06:34 AM   #557
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
I bet you can't prove that spirits don't exist!
Your assertion. Your burden of proof.
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Old 24th August 2019, 06:36 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
Lots of things can cause pain. Spirits are not known to be a cause of pain.

What is your evidence that your pain was caused by spirits?

Why did you say recently that you no longer believe in spirits?
so do you believe in spirits?
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Old 24th August 2019, 06:39 AM   #559
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through magnetism my pain disappeared at the same moment ... if the cause is of the matter .. the pain does not end at the same instant ... but gradually ...
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Old 24th August 2019, 06:46 AM   #560
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
The only way to solve this is to present evidence of its NOT existence.
Why did you say you no longer believe in spirits?
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