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Old 25th September 2019, 02:48 PM   #401
wasapi
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Nessie, could you please respond to my post about my dog and the collar? Too me, it is a good example of how our senses mislead us at times. In crime, eye witness description of the offender is the least reliable. Our minds fill in detail often not credible. Six people will describe the subject as blond, brunet, black. They all saw the same person.

It makes sense that other senses would react in the same manner.
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Old 25th September 2019, 03:27 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Nessie, could you please respond to my post about my dog and the collar? Too me, it is a good example of how our senses mislead us at times. In crime, eye witness description of the offender is the least reliable. Our minds fill in detail often not credible. Six people will describe the subject as blond, brunet, black. They all saw the same person.

It makes sense that other senses would react in the same manner.

You beat me to it! I was going to comment on the unreliability of eye witness testimony as seen in the legal world.

I gave evidence as a witness to an assault many years ago and realised afterwards I was in error on some detail post trial. My recollection was influenced by discussion with others after the event, and I blended others observations with my own. Entirely without intention.
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Old 25th September 2019, 04:02 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
You beat me to it! I was going to comment on the unreliability of eye witness testimony as seen in the legal world.

I gave evidence as a witness to an assault many years ago and realised afterwards I was in error on some detail post trial. My recollection was influenced by discussion with others after the event, and I blended others observations with my own. Entirely without intention.
Yes! This^

The more a colorful event is re-told the farther it can drift from the facts of that event. This is ESPECIALLY TRUE with ghost stories since they make a person feel unique...and yes I'm suggesting there is a psychological component to why people cling to the idea that they saw a real ghost instead of trying to understand why and how they saw it.

We see this with conspiracy theory witnesses who change their initial account to match the popular version of the event or refuse to admit their perspective was handicapped.
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Old 29th September 2019, 09:46 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Don't "ghosts" repeat themselves, though? They supposedly do the same things over and over again in the locations they're said to haunt.
Depends. Some stories say this about ghosts, other stories say different things. This is part of the problem - ghosts are not a single describable phenomenon. Every story is different.
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Old 30th September 2019, 11:17 AM   #405
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Every challenge the paranormal experts will have to do something. Credibility is hard to keep in that business.

I have seen:

Lump it into a regular class, stretching the definition a bit

Create a new class of event but make no special note it's new, just SOP.

Refer to a colleague that is a demon/black magic/whatever expert that won't make you look ignorant.

And there you go, gloss over the rough edges and holes and it's perfectly defined. Then tell the viewer that as always, the best opinion is theirs.

If I as a mechanic worked on your car with those standards I would have no work.

I believe the paranormal field gives scammer and the like a perfect platform to pay rent and not really do anything for society in the process. It appears to pay well too.
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Old 30th September 2019, 12:27 PM   #406
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Thanks to TV and Youtube credibility is mostly impossible for paranormal investigators. Their only benefit has been to prove the skeptic's theory that the phenomenon is all in the head. I've given up complaining about their inept investigation procedures which are camera-friendly yet 100% counter-productive toward discovering anything of value. They've brought snake-oil into the 21st century with a host of black boxes promising to capture and verify the presence of entities and allowing you to speak with the dead. Forget the fact that there is NO INDEPENDENT WAY TO TEST ANY OF THESE PRODUCTS, they make for good TV.

In the 1980's there were no Shadow People and no investigator would claim a place was haunted by a demon because - if you believe in them - that's not how they work, and they're rare. Today it's all shadow people and demons all the time. This crap is inconsistent with the methodical work done by the few University Parapsychology departments in the US and Europe (these departments never proved anything BTW, and have almost all melted away). Say what you want about the University level programs at least they kept their feet on the ground and applied the scientific method to the question.

Today it's easy to track the influence TV ghost hunting shows and Youtube has had on the things believers claim to see, so in a backhanded way they're ultimately putting themselves out of work. Maybe it's a good thing.
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Old 30th September 2019, 07:16 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I entered a room to find a rocking chair moving by itself. I even had time to get out my phone, start up the app, and video record it. It was about 30 seconds before it stopped.

Turns out, the cat sleeping it had been startled when I walked in, and its leap set the chair in motion.
I don't have a cat, but...

I often hear sounds such as a bell ringing or someone whispering in my ear just before I wake up. Once I heard a cat meowing, which is impossible because I don't have a cat. It seemed so real though that I got up and looked around the house. Not finding anything I figured it was just another imaginary sound and went back to the bedroom - then I saw the poo. Poor thing must have wandered into the house when the back door was open and got trapped inside. The meowing was it asking to be let out!
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Old 29th October 2019, 01:34 PM   #408
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This is almost as weird as ghosts, but it may well be the answer to our ghosts;

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...e-can-14125218

"Black mould in your home can cause terrifying hallucinations of demons and ghosts
A third of Brits believe in ghosts but the solution could be more cleaning based"

We had terrible problems with black mould and damp in that house.
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Old 11th November 2019, 02:18 PM   #409
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is there ghost hunting?
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Old 11th November 2019, 03:36 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
is there ghost hunting?
Yes. We have an actual one here as a member of long standing. So what?
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:18 PM   #411
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It should be mentioned that in all of the world's history of ghost hunting, no ghost hunter has ever successfully hunted a ghost.
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:26 PM   #412
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Are ghosts and spirits the same thing? or is there a difference?
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:30 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
Are ghosts and spirits the same thing? or is there a difference?
Same thing. All imaginary. Think otherwise? Then off you go and provide evidence for either. And don't do the NDE crapfest. Had one and it is utterly banal. Don't waste my time with that nuttery.
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:35 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
Are ghosts and spirits the same thing? or is there a difference?
What abaddon said. But even if you grant that they exist at all, whether they are the same or different depends very much on who you ask. Because they are not real, everyone is free to make up their own definitions, and they do.
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:05 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It should be mentioned that in all of the world's history of ghost hunting, no ghost hunter has ever successfully hunted a ghost.
Nope.

Never collected anything conclusive proving they exist. I saw and heard a lot of wild stuff but I was almost always able to find a normal explanation either on the spot or through later research and reading of non-woo material.
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:09 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
Are ghosts and spirits the same thing? or is there a difference?
Technically a ghost is a paranormal being who was once a living human being.

A spirit can be a ghost but can also be what the Woo Dictionary calls: An Elemental being. A non-corporeal entity like a fairy or leprechaun or harpy or demon. These were never human.

Neither exist.
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:28 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Yes. We have an actual one here as a member of long standing. So what?
I feel the need to mention, just in case someone is missing the context, that abaddon is referring to this fine fellow:

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Nope.

Never collected anything conclusive proving they exist. I saw and heard a lot of wild stuff but I was almost always able to find a normal explanation either on the spot or through later research and reading of non-woo material.
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:37 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I feel the need to mention, just in case someone is missing the context, that abaddon is referring to this fine fellow:
Thank you, and if I ever prove ghosts are real I'll be just as surprised as anyone here.
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Old 12th November 2019, 12:25 PM   #419
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Would the ghost be the spirit or soul of a person who has already died? same in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_seW1h5rg
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Old 12th November 2019, 01:11 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
Would the ghost be the spirit or soul of a person who has already died? same in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_seW1h5rg
Not hugely likely. There is lots of speculation, ideas and information in this thread. Do you have any comments?
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Old 13th November 2019, 09:07 AM   #421
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not yet.
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Old 13th November 2019, 09:26 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
Would the ghost be the spirit or soul of a person who has already died? same in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_seW1h5rg
Good film about something many want to believe. Still, a movie, made up for entertainment purposes, and left for interpretation by viewers as to it regarding the "spirit" or "soul".
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Old 13th November 2019, 01:46 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Good film about something many want to believe. Still, a movie, made up for entertainment purposes, and left for interpretation by viewers as to it regarding the "spirit" or "soul".

I am always amused by those movies showing clothed ghosts rather than naked ones.

When those who combine the ghost (spirit if you like), with the notion that it inhabits another body in a further incarnation, it gets more complicated and the absolute absurdity is revealed. What does the ghost/spirit look like when it takes up residence in the embryo? Never could get a lucid answer from Scorpion on that one.
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:21 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I am always amused by those movies showing clothed ghosts rather than naked ones.
Most fiction in my experience explains this by suggesting that the appearance of the ghost is based on the person's self-image. So the ghost wears the "default" style of clothing that the person most commonly wore in life.
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Old 14th November 2019, 07:17 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Most fiction in my experience explains this by suggesting that the appearance of the ghost is based on the person's self-image. So the ghost wears the "default" style of clothing that the person most commonly wore in life.
There are many functional gaps in the how's and why's of ghosts.

While there are a few naked ghosts reported the majority are not and are usually wearing the clothes they had on at the time of death or their favorite outfit or the outfit they wore the most. You have no idea how happy I was to log a report of a ghost wearing a hospital gown in a building that was once a hospital (at least someone was consistent). In almost every case the ghosts are wearing what the viewer expects them to be wearing.

What I've never been able to reconcile is why a single room is reported to be haunted while the adjoining rooms are not. In my view it's usually a case of infrasound. What I never understood even as a hardcore believer was how that concept was supposed to work. I have the same problem with the mechanics of a haunted house as well. Why is the ghost stuck inside?

There are so many aspects to ghosts and hauntings that are blindly accepted without any thought as what the rules or metaphysical laws must be. Much of legitimate parapsychological research has focused on trying to shoe-horn in explanations to old wive's tales instead of starting from zero and asking better questions (starting with "Is this even real?").
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Old 15th November 2019, 07:17 AM   #426
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Succubi aren't clothed, are they? Of course, I suppose one can do the deed while still clothed. And besides, those aren't ghosts exactly I guess, more like, what, demons, angels, something like that?

*

One take-away from this self-image thing is, this takes "the power of positive thinking" to a whole new level. You may be fat, pot-bellied, short, squat and hideous to look at; but if you keep telling yourself you're actually Adonis incarnate, and a walking babe magnet, then, when you die, if you happen to become a ghost, then a handsome babe magnet is what you'll become for the space that you're a ghost.

This is a pretty straightforward Pascal's wager. When you're dying, it makes sense to practice cultivating this self-image.

What, no ghosts? No problem, just something to do while you're waiting for the reaper, can't hurt. But just in case ....


ETA:
Okay, just in case it isn't clear: Kidding!
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Old 15th November 2019, 12:21 PM   #427
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The old TV series Ghost Whisperer kind of set a standard for how we " understand " this stuff.

Even psychic types and paranormal exspurts use it as a framework for thier act.

We can appease them, drive off evils and bring them to peace with whatever, when it suits the needs of the living.

Pop culture influence from other sources has become part of it all, but most tends to be regional.
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Old 18th November 2019, 10:25 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Succubi aren't clothed, are they?
Depends which edition of the Monster Manual you've got.
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Old 20th November 2019, 01:35 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Depends which edition of the Monster Manual you've got.
Pretty sure I have the "right" one.
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Old 20th November 2019, 09:53 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Pretty sure I have the "right" one.
The 1st Edition, presumably?
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Old 21st November 2019, 12:20 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
The 1st Edition, presumably?
Think so. Some of the graphics were "interesting" to a teenage lad, nudge, nudge.

It's still in a doc box in the spare room along with MM2, PH, DMG, Demigods, and several others. Nostalgia is an odd thing.
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Old 21st November 2019, 07:10 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Think so. Some of the graphics were "interesting" to a teenage lad, nudge, nudge.

It's still in a doc box in the spare room along with MM2, PH, DMG, Demigods, and several others. Nostalgia is an odd thing.
I recall that Deities and Demigods had some similarly "interesting" illustrations.
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Old 8th February 2020, 02:55 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Technically a ghost is a paranormal being who was once a living human being.

A spirit can be a ghost but can also be what the Woo Dictionary calls: An Elemental being. A non-corporeal entity like a fairy or leprechaun or harpy or demon. These were never human.

Neither exist.
Very astute, mister Axxman300. 10 points to Griffindor.
Also, ghosts are transparent.
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Old 8th February 2020, 03:24 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Technically a ghost is a paranormal being who was once a living human being.

A spirit can be a ghost but can also be what the Woo Dictionary calls: An Elemental being. A non-corporeal entity like a fairy or leprechaun or harpy or demon. These were never human.

Neither exist.

Many a nun in the past would take issue with you on the "demons not existing' point. Many have claimed impregnation and subsequent pregnancy as the result of a visit by an incubus. Those devious sexual demons even managed to get their offspring to bear a resemblance one of the visiting priests.
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Old 8th February 2020, 04:47 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Many a nun in the past would take issue with you on the "demons not existing' point. Many have claimed impregnation and subsequent pregnancy as the result of a visit by an incubus. Those devious sexual demons even managed to get their offspring to bear a resemblance one of the visiting priests.
The problem with "Demons" is that they're proprietary to whichever religion a believer belongs to. Their powers vary from western to eastern religions depending on how badly those religions feel they need to frighten their flocks into submission.
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:21 PM   #436
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:52 AM   #437
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^Hah! Not a bad way to go, I guess, if you believe in that sort of thing!
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:04 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
The concubus is how me and the wives get around town . . .
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Old 12th February 2020, 10:27 AM   #439
Myriad
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The concubus is how me and the wives get around town . . .

And I suppose the concucombine is how you all harvest your grain crops.
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Old 12th February 2020, 10:36 AM   #440
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
And I suppose the concucombine is how you all harvest your grain crops.
We grow concucumbers, actually.
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