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Old 14th February 2019, 01:38 PM   #801
Thor 2
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
Talking about "eras" and "load" screw ups . . .

Ok, Ok, loud it is. God has his finger in my spell check.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:40 PM   #802
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Ok, Ok, loud it is. God has his finger in my spell check.
What about errors as well?
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:00 PM   #803
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
What about errors as well?

No eras was right. Responding to Apathia who spoke of same.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:40 PM   #804
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
No eras was right. Responding to Apathia who spoke of same.
So neither of us is perfect then? Bugger.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:51 PM   #805
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On the Catholic in free fall thread I posted:

Quote:
Only just over 2 months until Easter and in the Philippines they will be dusting off the crosses and sharpening the nails soon, in preparation for the crucifixions. It would impress me no end to see Francis stepping up to the plate and trying to stop this barbarism.

Mind you it's a good money spinner as the ghoulish flock to see the spectacle. This could in no small part, be the reason the practice has not been stopped long ago, by any authority.

To which arthwollipot replied:

Quote:
For the record (since I know you're curious), I consider that particular event to be a level of self-harm that borders on the pathological.

So if arth agrees this is pathological (well bordering on) how about those who practice self flagellation?

We can progress down the scale of self harm and even into the field of self denial. Where is the dividing line then when we are not over the pathological threshold? Just above or below eating meat on Friday perhaps?
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Old 14th February 2019, 05:24 PM   #806
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
So if arth agrees this is pathological (well bordering on) how about those who practice self flagellation?

We can progress down the scale of self harm and even into the field of self denial. Where is the dividing line then when we are not over the pathological threshold? Just above or below eating meat on Friday perhaps?
Nice slippery slope you've got going there. What about pierced ears? After all, those practicing crucifixion in the Philippines are putting holes in themselves, why shouldn't we define piercing your earlobe, or lip, or tongue, to be self-harm as well?

Obviously there are always going to be serious problems with predefining a firm and exact cutoff between pathological and nonpathological. Each individual is going to be different and will receive a different diagnosis if examined by a mental health professional.

Personally, since I know you're curious, and I'd like to stress again that I am not a mental health professional, if you're deliberately damaging your body - by crucifixion or self-flagellation, since those are the methods you bring up - I think it's possible that it's pathological. Self-harm can be a symptom of several different mental disorders including bipolar disorder, body dysmorphic disorder and major depressive disorder. If the Philippine crucifees were to voluntarily undergo a mental health assessment, they might be diagnosed with one of these. But then again, they might not.
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Old 14th February 2019, 06:20 PM   #807
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Why did they bring in the "cult specialists"?
I think it was part of the "Satanic Panic" stuff in the 80's and 90's. They were trying to immunize us (via information) against joining cults, satanic or otherwise.
See: http://weekinweird.com/2016/07/19/wa...occult-crimes/

Quote:
The Law Enforcement Guide to Satanic Cults is one of these videos, and it’s a hell of a watch, if you’ll pardon the pun. Featuring “occult experts” with mullets that would put Billy Ray Cyrus to shame, interviews with alleged victims of satanic rituals, and dusty old men who dare to ponder how far America’s freedom of religion should extend, the 73-minute VHS tape is a glimpse into the Satanic Panic era that’s as frightening as it is hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISvFGdfAplg

ETA:
They used to also bring in people who claimed to be experts on subliminal advertising..."apostates" from the ad industry who said they used to put subliminal sex messages in their ads. Also, they'd bring in people who claimed to be adult aborted fetuses who survived abortion and were rescued out of dumpsters outside of abortion clinics by prolifers. Seems in retrospect there was a whole circuit of people who made a living touring private Christian schools, "teaching" kids about the evils of the outside, non-christian world.
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Last edited by kellyb; 14th February 2019 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:06 AM   #808
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Lots of eras.

The one thing that comes out load and clear is the God of Abraham is a master of screw ups.

1. He makes Adam and Eve perfect but they turn out flawed - their own fault of course.

2. He drowns the lot accept for Noah and family but this goes pear shaped as well.

3. He decides to have a special chosen people and screw the rest. Alas, no joy here either.

4. Sends down His son to take the wrap as a sacrifice but many will not buy into this because ..... well .... it's just plain silly.

5. The Islamists now tell us Muhammad tuned everything up and came up with the final word ....... sigh.

(Won't make any mention of Joh Smith and the Latter Day Sillies because the absurdity meter goes off the scale with this one.)
It ought to be apparent by now that Humans create Gods in their own image. We get the grand icons of our own stupidity.
Insane people, insane God. (Disclaimer: "Insane" in the popular usage meaning shy of rational potential.)
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Last edited by Apathia; 15th February 2019 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 15th February 2019, 01:28 PM   #809
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Nice slippery slope you've got going there. What about pierced ears? After all, those practicing crucifixion in the Philippines are putting holes in themselves, why shouldn't we define piercing your earlobe, or lip, or tongue, to be self-harm as well?
Interesting bit of a screw up here. You show the post material you are responding to as coming from dann but it was my little gem.

Apart from this you are doing the same thing others have done before that I find tiresome and have responded to elsewhere. It's the "But look, these other guys are doing the same thing" line. They may well be but this thread is about examining whether religious observance is insane.

None the less there are many types of self harm that folk do from putting plates in their lips to extending necks. There can be a fuzzy line between religious and other cultural reasons for this but to me it is insanity all the same.


Quote:
Obviously there are always going to be serious problems with predefining a firm and exact cutoff between pathological and nonpathological. Each individual is going to be different and will receive a different diagnosis if examined by a mental health professional.
And even greater divergence of diagnosis if the diagnosing guy is non professional.

Quote:
Personally, since I know you're curious, and I'd like to stress again that I am not a mental health professional, if you're deliberately damaging your body - by crucifixion or self-flagellation, since those are the methods you bring up - I think it's possible that it's pathological. Self-harm can be a symptom of several different mental disorders including bipolar disorder, body dysmorphic disorder and major depressive disorder. If the Philippine crucifees were to voluntarily undergo a mental health assessment, they might be diagnosed with one of these. But then again, they might not.
Thanks.
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Old 16th February 2019, 05:07 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Nice slippery slope you've got going there.
Actually, that's not a slippery slope at all, unless it is claimed or implied that one thing leads to another. The progression mentioned in Thor's message was about an observer going along the spectrum and deciding where they draw the line between ok and not ok, not some natural progression from doing one type of self harm to doing another.

This is a slippery slope argument: "For if once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination. Once begin upon this downward path, you never know where you are to stop. Many a man has dated his ruin from some murder or other that perhaps he thought little of at the time." -- Thomas De Quincey

(Chosen for explicitly mentioning that downward path and not knowing when you'll stop, though it would have been a slippery slope argument even if I ended that quote before that sentence.)

This is not: "Both murder and robbery are criminal acts."

Same for piercings, self-cutting, and whatnot. Unless there is an explicit or implicit claim that if you start with piercing your ears, you end up getting yourself nailed to a cross, then it's not a slippery slope argument at all.
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Last edited by HansMustermann; 16th February 2019 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 16th February 2019, 01:32 PM   #811
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Thanks for the clarification Hans. Must be careful my verbal conflict with the faithful doesn't lead to the blowing up of churches.
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Old 17th February 2019, 06:22 PM   #812
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Interesting bit of a screw up here. You show the post material you are responding to as coming from dann but it was my little gem.
I have no idea how I managed that. My apologies for the messup.

Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Apart from this you are doing the same thing others have done before that I find tiresome and have responded to elsewhere. It's the "But look, these other guys are doing the same thing" line. They may well be but this thread is about examining whether religious observance is insane.
My close friend (remember me mentioning her upthread) informs me that Australian law prevents religious observance from forming the basis of a mental health diagnosis. It is actually illegal to diagnose someone as mentally ill based on nothing more than a religious belief.

Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
None the less there are many types of self harm that folk do from putting plates in their lips to extending necks. There can be a fuzzy line between religious and other cultural reasons for this but to me it is insanity all the same.
I have a pierced ear and a tattoo. Would you say that I am insane?

Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
And even greater divergence of diagnosis if the diagnosing guy is non professional.
If the diagnosing guy is non professional, then the diagnosis is worthless. Worse than worthless, in fact, since it is likely to be directly counterproductive.
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Old 17th February 2019, 06:23 PM   #813
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Actually, that's not a slippery slope at all, unless it is claimed or implied that one thing leads to another. The progression mentioned in Thor's message was about an observer going along the spectrum and deciding where they draw the line between ok and not ok, not some natural progression from doing one type of self harm to doing another.
Okay, my use of the term was sloppy and not according to the formal definition. I accept the correction.
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Old Today, 02:21 PM   #814
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I have no idea how I managed that. My apologies for the messup.
No sweat.

Quote:
My close friend (remember me mentioning her upthread) informs me that Australian law prevents religious observance from forming the basis of a mental health diagnosis. It is actually illegal to diagnose someone as mentally ill based on nothing more than a religious belief.
Really?

Forgive my skepticism but if some shrink has a patient who is convinced his garage is overrun by dragons, (dragons in garages strikes a cord with some), said shrink is prevented by law from diagnosing insanity, if the dude says it's part of a religious belief?

Quote:
I have a pierced ear and a tattoo. Would you say that I am insane?
Well if you're reasons for afflicting this on yourself were religious then the question may be asked. You have conceded, (guardedly perhaps), that those cross hangers and flagellationalists are crazy so we are just trying to find a line of demarcation here.

Quote:
If the diagnosing guy is non professional, then the diagnosis is worthless. Worse than worthless, in fact, since it is likely to be directly counterproductive.
Heavy stuff. I will restrict myself to just asking questions then. You?
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