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#281 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,095
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You are blasting another failed 911 truth believer! Don't you 911 truth followers have one single failed claim you can agree on? lol, you are debunked by another 911 truth follower.
This is classic 911 truth, crazy claims, debunking each other, oblivious to the fact they have no evidence, can't do the math, no engineering, no physics. 11 years of failure, on the road to eternal failure fueled by ignorance. |
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#282 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 399
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#283 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 408
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#284 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 408
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#285 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 5,164
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Beach was talking about atavisms.
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"Fixin' crap that ain't broke." |
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#286 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 501
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#287 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,095
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#288 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 501
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#289 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 408
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#290 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,497
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#291 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 188
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#292 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,707
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140,000kg @ 500mph = ~220ms
K.E = 1/2mv2 = (0.5x140,000) x (220x220) = 3,388,000,000 J There's a start. |
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Common sense has clearly been snuck up on from behind beaten several times on the head and left to bleed. Over 140 pieces of evidence showing American 77 hit the Pentagon http://therightbloggerbastard.blogspot.co.nz/ http://www.youtube.com/user/cjnewson88 |
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#293 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 408
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Na... Bored
So fag packet calculation... Tensile strength of aluminum 310 Mpa Density of aluminum 2700 kg/m^3 mass of material in plane if it was all aluminum 30,000 kg (rough estimate if fully loaded plane is 150000kg) This assumes a cube of aluminum to be approximately 11m^3 if solid aluminum Dust I'm taking to be 1mm^3 Looks to be about 300GN Or 300000000000 N That's quite a lot of force Taking the impact to be spread out over 0.2 seconds for the planes aluminium to fully compress at 240m/s this gives about 36 MN force for the impact. A factor of about 90000 times too small to break the aluminum present into 1mm^3 dust particles. Also took worst case for the plane conditions, under estimating mass of plane, tensile strengths of all materials and took best case, over estimating compression in real world scenario and also assuming the wall could withstand the impact and all force went into the dustification. If I took best case for all we would be looking at at least many more times too little force. I even ignored the people and fuel and just took the amount need to dustify only the aluminum. Don't forget they must have been dustified too. How's them potatoes for ya Where's yours? A lot of assumptions here but most of them are of the order. |
Last edited by Montag451; 2nd September 2012 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Yeah forgot to convert to newtons my bad |
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#294 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,497
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#295 |
Incromulent Logic
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,979
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Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo |
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#296 |
Incromulent Logic
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,979
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__________________
Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo |
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#297 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,519
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Maybe we should show him the math? Here's the equation for kinetic energy: KE = ½mv² That's half the mass in kilograms times the velocity in metres per second squared equals kinetic energy in joules. American Airlines Flight 11 was a 767-200ER model, which has an empty operating weight of about 82,380 kg. The fuel on board at the time of impact was about 40,000 litres, which has a mass of about 32,160 kg. Adding that to the empty weight of the aircraft gives us 114,540 kg (this ignores the weight of the passengers, crew, and any baggage or cargo, and thus is a conservative estimate). The velocity at impact was about 748 km/h, or 207.8 metres per second. Plugging this into the formula we get: 0.5 * 114,540 * (207.8 * 207.8) = 2,472,437,815 joules. united Airlines Flight 175 was a 767-200 model, which has an empty operating weight of about 80,130 kg. The fuel on board at the time of the impact was approximately 38,000 litres, which has a mass of about 30,552 kg. Adding that to the empty weight gives us a conservative total mass of roughly 110,682 kg (again, this ignores the weight of the crew, passengers, and any baggage or cargo, and thus is a conservative estimate). The velocity at impact was about 950 km/h. (You have the wrong metric conversion on that, beechnut.) Plugging those values in we get: 0.5 * 110,682 * (263.9 * 263.9) = 3,853,800,347 joules. The standard conversion factor is that one tonne of TNT is equal to 4,200,000,000 joules. Applying this to our figures for each impact means the first was the equivalent to about 0.589 tonnes of TNT, or 588.7 kg (1,298 lbs), while the second was approximately 0.918 tonnes of TNT, or 917.6 kg (2,023 lbs). Lastly, let's compare that energy in joules to that delivered by munitions in the U.S. military inventory. A Mk 84 bomb (2,000 lbs/907 kg nominal weight, of which 47% is the high explosives warhead) unleashes roughly 2,164,625,517 joules of energy when detonated. That means the impact of American Airlines 11 was equal to about 1.14 Mk 84 bomb strikes, and United Airlines 175 equal to about 1.78 Mk 84 bombs. |
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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#298 |
Incromulent Logic
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,979
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__________________
Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo |
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#299 |
Incromulent Logic
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,979
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__________________
Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo |
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#300 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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Are you trying actively to look silly?
The tilting of the wings is not similar. The first one flew more or less straight and level. And what is difficult about tilting the wings? A plane has control surfaces for doing that. They are called ailerons. They are needed when you turn the plane. Hans |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#301 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#302 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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Of course there were floors. Don't you recon the people working there would have, you know, sort of noticed, if several floors were missing? I don't know if you realize this, but the WTC were not a computer game; they were real life *) buildings, with real life people working in them.
Of course they can't glide effortlessly through. In fact they were completely disintegrated in the process. Hans *) 'Real life' is the thing you will find if you venture outside your front door. |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#303 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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__________________
If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#304 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 2,094
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#305 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
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Same thing a soft Pb bullet does when penetrating hardened steel plate.
It always makes me laugh when truthers try to talk in a technical language about the plane's structure. Aluminium composite? What for the wing structure? Nonsense. If you had ever had the experience of working at an aircraft manufacturer as I have (Airbus in Filton, Bristol) you'd know how massive the wing structures are and how solid they are. You'd also know that they are made from a number of different alloys and not a sandwiched aluminium composite in the 757/767. Your only experience of aluminium alloys is when you buy a can of diet coke. You also parrot truther sites nonsense about hardness without any understanding. |
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#306 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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Psst, Anders: The videos of planes hitting the towers, while dramatic and compelling, are not important evidence that planes hit the towers.
As is obvious, individual videos can be faked, although the sheer number of independent videos and still shots made by countless individual people, including photographers from independent foreign media would be an astronomic challenge. The important evidence is that the planes were tracked to the area, and did not leave. The important evidence is the thousands of people who watched directly. The important evidence is the remains of planes and passengers recovered on the site. And the important evidence is, of course, the damage inflicted on the buildings, for which nobody, least of all you, have ever offered an even remotely plausible alternative explanation. Hans |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#307 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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Let me get this straight: You claim that a plausible-looking moving plane was edited into dozens of individual videos from multiple sources, all from different angles, compiling into a consistent 3D trajectory and plane image, but a diffuse light spot on the side of a building lasting a couple of frames could not possibly have been faked?
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Hans |
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#308 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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Since the original video did have a plane in it, that appears to be a compelling conclusion.
Quote:
Hans |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#309 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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The white dot is the explosive release of energy as the nose of the plane, moving at the speed of a revolver bullet, contacts the surface of the building. In the preceeding milliseconds, the pressure-wave normally travelling in front of the plane has built up in the narrowing gap between the two objects. The white spot probably begins already shortly before the actual impact, due to shock-wave condensation effects. Also, window panes may have begun to shatter from the pressure.
Hans |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#310 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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I know this is a waste of typing, but, being his own worst enemy, it is so tempting to provide momentum for AL to dig his hole ever deeper.
Hans |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#311 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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There is no hook. No debunking is needed.
Here is a high-speed film of a similar impact (subsonic, kinetic impact): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9YyM...eature=related Notice the flashes and white clouds, "long before" the actual fireball evolves (there is obviously no HE warhead installed in this missile). Hans |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#312 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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Slight correction, here: The idea was in fact that a plane could enter the building, crash through a floor, and exit (as wreckage, of course) on the other side, thus transferring as little energy to the building as possible. This basically worked as intended on 911, except that the bigger and faster planes inflicted far more damage on the structure (but it still held), and the amount of fuel on the planes we much higher than calculated (calculations expected a plane coming in for landing at a nearby airport, relatively low on fuel). The increased damage and the resultant fires did the trick.
Hans |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#313 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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Admit?
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Quote:
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Hans |
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#314 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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Call it what you will, but it weighs well over 100tons. I'd like to see your suggestion for a structure that could keep ot from penetrating when hitting at 500mph. - Just for your information, the Phantom jet you see disintegrating against a solid concrete block only weighs about 15 tons.
Quote:
Hans |
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#315 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,141
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They did not, who ever they are, did not use thermite to destory the buildings, the terrosits used big planes.
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#316 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#317 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves. |
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#318 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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#319 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,141
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I am no ballistics expert and do not pretend to be however it strikes me that if you fly two very large planes at high speed, while full of air fuel into big buildings, that is going to make one hell of an explosion, and you do not need an equation to prove that.
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#320 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 21,716
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See, now you are actually, I assume inadvertently, approaching the enlightment zone. Yes, there was no peceptible deceleration of the aft part of the airplane, while the front part was blasing through the outer parts of the building. Why is that so?
Well, that is exactly the secret of high velocity impacts, and the reason you could, in principle, shoot a wet rage through a steel plate, if you could accelerate it enough: Even though the objects have a considerable structural strenght, this strenght is based on forces being distributed and dispersed through the structure by elastic deformation of the individual parts. Take a bamboo stick and large cardboard box. place the box on a table and press the bamboo stick against its side. You can easily push the box with no damage to either part. Now, instead hit the side of the box smartly with the stick (fast enough so you can hear the stick whistle trough the air). It will cut into the cardboard! How does this happen? Well, the thing is that when the fast object hits, so much energy is applied so quickly that the structure cannot redistribute it fast enough. Instead it breaks or disintegrates. Look at the film with the Phantom jet impacting the concrete block (just because here we all know exactly what goes on): Now, the F4 Phantom is a very sturdy bird. It can withstand the forces of MACH 2.2, which is somewhat faster than your average rifle bullet. It can also withstand combat maneuvres with a full ordnance load (total over 20 tons). Yet it disintegrates against that concrete block without slowing down, and without buckling of being deformed perceptly. It really makes sense: Would you really really think the rear half of a jet liner could be stopped, or even slowed down in some 30 yeards, from 500mph? Hans |
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