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Tags debate , tfk , tony szamboti

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Old 30th June 2016, 04:41 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Perhaps if I take 5 days PLUS 5 minutes, he'll declare my response invalid,
What response of yours is there to declare invalid?

More than 5 days have passed. Tony's response was posted around 10:01 am on the 25th.

Do you have a valid explanation, or do you already know that you have no credible evidence to use to argue against Tony's claims?

Which one is it?

A credible, competent, responsible "expert" would have provided a response by now. *Next sentence consisting of snark-laced facts redacted*

Last edited by FalseFlag; 30th June 2016 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:45 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
More than 5 days have passed.

How many years has it been since 9/11? After all of these years, there is still no evidence of CD explosives nor evidence of a government cover-up.
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Old 30th June 2016, 06:09 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
How many years ...
Soon to be 15 years of overwhelming ignorance and lies. The failed CD believers have no evidence for the insane inside job CD fantasy.

15 years... 9/11 truth failed. 9/11 truth succeeded in identifying people who are gullible with no practical knowledge of science and physics.

9/11 Truth, the lie starts with the Title. Tony has no evidence for his realcddeal.
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Old 30th June 2016, 06:32 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
A credible, competent, responsible "expert" would have provided a response by now.
You don't know the difference, so your opinion is worthless.
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Old 30th June 2016, 08:39 PM   #285
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QUOTE=beachnut;11362602]Soon to be 15 years of overwhelming ignorance and lies. The failed CD believers have no evidence for the insane inside job CD fantasy.

15 years... 9/11 truth failed. 9/11 truth succeeded in identifying people who are gullible with no practical knowledge of science and physics.

9/11 Truth, the lie starts with the Title. Tony has no evidence for his realcddeal.[/quote]


I agree!

The Truth movement has made a mockery of itself over those years. Let's take a look at the list of a few examples.

1. United 93 landed at Cleveland Airport.

Fact: Truthers confused Delta 1989, which was a B-767, with United 93, which was a B-757.


2. Truthers claim that passengers from United 93 were seen boarding a bus at Cleveland Airport.

Fact: The passengers were scientist that had disembarked from a KC-135.


3. Truthers have claimed that a terrorist passport was planted on site because passports cannot survive a burning aircraft disaster.

Fact: Passports have survived air disasters. Here is one example of many.


Passport Survives Air Disaster in Nepal

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multim...rt_340688c.jpg


4. Truthers claim the WTC Towers collapsed at free fall or near free fall speed.

Fact: The WTC buildings did not collapse at free fall nor even near-free fall speed. Note debris outpacing the collapse of one of the WTC Towers.


Falling Debris Outpacing WTC Tower Collapse

http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/Collapse.jpg


And of course, the list of their debunked claims continues with:

* Nuclear weapons brought down the WTC Buildings

* CD explosives brought down the WTC Buildings

* Thermite brought down the WTC buildings

* Directed Energy Weapons brought down the WTC buildings

* Nano-Thermite brought down the WTC buildings

* ACARS depicted the 9/11 aircraft airborne after their reported crash times

* The 9/11 aircraft were switched in flight

* The 9/11 aircraft were modified to fly under remote control

* American 77 flew north of the gas station

* A missile struck the Pentagon

* Missiles struck the WTC buildings

* The 9/11 aircraft that struck the WTC buildings were holograms

* A pod was seen attached to the bottom fuselage of United 175

* The 9/11 aircraft that struck WTC 2 was a military aircraft because it did not have windows (despite the fact a recovered fuselage section had passenger windows)


United 175 Wreckage

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...A175debris.jpg


* Aircraft wreckage was planted at the Pentagon (despite the presence of hundreds of people at the Pentagon)

* Light poles near the Pentagon was blown up by explosives to fake an aircraft strike

* American 77 overflew the Pentagon and secretly landed (under the watchful eyes of ATC personnel and airline pilots at Ronald Reagan Airport)

* it was impossible for American 77 to have conducted its maneuver before striking the Pentagon.

* Large aircraft cannot fly at low altitudes at high speed.

I guess they were unaware of the rest of the story here.


KC-135 High-Speed Fly-by

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OowzP5280mQ


Just a few examples above as to why Truthers cannot be taken seriously.

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Old 2nd July 2016, 03:37 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Tony lost that battle. For an example, thermite consist of aluminum power and iron oxide (rust). Now, let's take a look here.


Aluminum & Gray Epoxy-Mastic Primer

* Coating Section Dry Film Thickness mils
* Aluminum Epoxy-Mastic Primer 1045.8 5.0 min.
* Gray Epoxy-Mastic Primer 1045.9 5.0 m

Corothane I - MIO Aluminum

COROTHANE I MIO-ALUMINUM is a single component, VOC compliant, moisture curing, aluminum and Micaceous Iron Oxide (MIO) filled, urethane primer, intermediate coating, or finish. It has excellent surface wetting properties and provides extended recoatability.


What can be expected from a structural primer?

http://www.nucorbuildingsystems.com/...uralprimer.pdf


As far as microspheres are concerned, anyone with a barrel of wood, a match and steel beams can create microspheres in the backyard. In fact, microspheres can even be created using a hydrocarbon flame and steel wool.


Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLyYv5Y2YSM


Tony was unaware of the rest of the story.
Would those microspheres be chemically consistent with the FE microspheres produced in a thermite
Reaction?

Also what about other types of thermite that do not use iron oxide as an oxygen source?

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Old 2nd July 2016, 07:42 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Would those microspheres be chemically consistent with the FE microspheres produced in a thermite
Reaction?

Yes. However, no such thermite evidence was ever found in the dust samples. I might add that it would have been impossible to secretly rig the WTC Towers with enough thermite to bring them down. After all, it took 1500 pounds of thermite just to burn through two steel legs of a tower at ground level and 1/2 tons of thermite was unable to burn a vehicle in two pieces, which are examples why thermite would not have been effective enough to bring down the WTC Towers.

In addition, the aircraft collisions were violent enough to dislodge fire protection from the steel structures of the WTC buildings and such violence would have dislodged thermite and explosives and rendered them ineffective against the steel structure of the WTC Towers, and once again, there were no secondary explosions that would have indicated pre-positioned explosives within the WTC Towers nor were CD explosions seen, heard nor detected by seismographs prior to the collapse of those buildings. To further add, thermite would not have been effective in bringing down the WTC Towers anyway.


Quote:
Also what about other types of thermite that do not use iron oxide as an oxygen source?

Such evidence would have been detected in the dust samples and evidence found on the steel structures of the WTC buildings as they were being loaded for transportation and examined. However, not such evidence was ever found.

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Old 2nd July 2016, 07:57 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Yes. However, no such thermite evidence was ever found in the dust samples. I might add that it would have been impossible to secretly rig the WTC Towers with enough thermite to bring them down. After all, it took 1500 pounds of thermite just to burn through two steel legs of a tower at ground level and 1/2 tons of thermite was unable to burn a vehicle in two pieces, which are examples why thermite would not have been effective enough to bring down the WTC Towers.

In addition, the aircraft collisions were violent enough to dislodge fire protection from the steel structures of the WTC buildings and such violence would have dislodged thermite and explosives and rendered them ineffective against the steel structure of the WTC Towers, and once again, there were no secondary explosions that would have indicated pre-positioned explosives within the WTC Towers nor were CD explosions seen, heard nor detected by seismographs prior to the collapse of those buildings. To further add, thermite would not have been effective in bringing down the WTC Towers anyway.





Such evidence would have been detected in the dust samples and evidence found on the steel structures of the WTC buildings as they were being loaded for transportation and examined. However, not such evidence was ever found.
Oh really? What if I installed copper oxide nano rod fuses in the bolts and welds mimicking a natural collapse using so little thermite it would never have been detectible in air samples?

Or what if I used thermite oxygen cutters?
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Old 2nd July 2016, 08:08 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Oh really? What if I installed copper oxide nano rod fuses in the bolts and welds mimicking a natural collapse using so little thermite it would never have been detectible in air samples?
Even then, there would have been evidence left behind, not just in the dust samples in the proper quantities, but also on steel structures. Once again, no such evidence was ever found. There would have been aluminum and iron oxide left behind but not the proper mixture that would have indicated the use of thermite.


Quote:
Or what if I used thermite oxygen cutters?

Have you ever wondered why additional explosives are used in conjunction with cutter changers during explosive implosions of steel frame buildings?
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Old 2nd July 2016, 08:22 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Oh really? What if I installed copper oxide nano rod fuses in the bolts and welds mimicking a natural collapse using so little thermite it would never have been detectible in air samples?

Or what if I used thermite oxygen cutters?
You scare me sometimes.................



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Old 2nd July 2016, 08:26 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Even then, there would have been evidence left behind, not just in the dust samples in the proper quantities, but also on steel structures. Once again, no such evidence was ever found. There would have been aluminum and iron oxide left behind but not the proper mixture that would have indicated the use of thermite.





Have you ever wondered why additional explosives are used in conjunction with cutter changers during explosive implosions of steel frame buildings?
Yes but how many bolts were examined?
How many bolts were recovered?

Oh Aluminum nanospheres were found with traces of copper were they not evidence?

In answer to your question no I know why they are used.
However we wouldn't be talking a normal CD, how many air planes are crashed into a building in a normal CD?
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Old 2nd July 2016, 10:07 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
You scare me sometimes.................



I scare me sometimes,.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 11:00 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Yes but how many bolts were examined?
How many bolts were recovered?

It doesn't matter because it would have been impossible to secretly place enough thermite to bring down the WTC Towers, and once again, thermite is not effective for that kind of operation.


Quote:
Oh Aluminum nanospheres were found with traces of copper were they not evidence?

No! Especially when you consider the huge amounts of aluminum and copper already used in the construction of the WTC Towers and in the aircraft.

You can have all the ingredients in the kitchen for making a cake, but unless those ingredients are mixed together at the proper temperature, you don't have a cake.


Quote:
In answer to your question no I know why they are used.

Then you would have known another valid reason as to why it was not feasible nor practical for anyone to use thermite to bring down the WTC Towers.

I might add that the collapse of the WTC Towers commenced at the locations where they were struck by the aircraft and any explosives and thermite placed at those locations would have been rendered ineffective by the impacts. Were secondary explosions from explosives observed or heard after those impacts? No!


Quote:
...However we wouldn't be talking a normal CD,...

That doesn't matter either because any explosive powerful enough to cause the collapse of the WTC Towers would have been heard for miles around the area, but I might add that in order for explosives to be effective, the steel frame of the buildings must be pre-weakened along with staircases and elevator shafts and explosives must be firmly attached to the steel columns, otherwise, this will be the result.


1993 WTC 1 Bombing

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...TF_Commons.jpg

During normal demolition implosions, a building falls within a relatively small area. However, the WTC buildings did not fall within their footprints, which was evident by widespread damage inflicted on nearby buildings.


Quote:
...how many air planes are crashed into a building in a normal CD?

None! The Chinese Embassy in Serbia absorbed 5 JDAM bomb strikes, yet the embassy remained standing. What does that say about those who've claimed that CD explosives or thermite brought down the WTC buildings?

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Old 2nd July 2016, 11:14 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Oh really? What if I installed copper oxide nano rod fuses in the bolts and welds mimicking a natural collapse using so little thermite it would never have been detectible in air samples?

Or what if I used thermite oxygen cutters?
What if you got a grip on reality?
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Old 2nd July 2016, 11:29 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
What if you got a grip on reality?
Is reality even real?
Can you prove your not just a figment of your own mind?
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Old 2nd July 2016, 11:51 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
It doesn't matter because it would have been impossible to secretly place enough thermite to bring down the WTC Towers, and once again, thermite is not effective for that kind of operation.
Ah how do you know, that seems a global assertion without evidence.





Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
No! Especially when you consider the huge amounts of aluminum and copper already used in the construction of the WTC Towers and in the aircraft.
.
That does not in anyway explain the origin of Aluminum copper microspheres.


Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
You can have all the ingredients in the kitchen for making a cake, but unless those ingredients are mixed together at the proper temperature, you don't have a cake..
Not interested in cooking cakes too fattening.




Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Then you would have known another valid reason as to why it was not feasible nor practical for anyone to use thermite to bring down the WTC Towers..
Please enlighten me.

Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
I might add that the collapse of the WTC Towers commenced at the locations where they were struck by the aircraft and any explosives and thermite placed at those locations would have been rendered ineffective by the impacts. Were secondary explosions from explosives observed or heard after those impacts? No!.
Insignificant to the theory of heat weakened connections, and you have no evidence to support your claims.



Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
That doesn't matter either because any explosive powerful enough to cause the collapse of the WTC Towers would have been heard for miles around the area, but I might add that in order for explosives to be effective, the steel frame of the buildings must be pre-weakened along with staircases and elevator shafts and explosives must be firmly attached to the steel columns, otherwise, this will be the result.
I referenced thermite heat weakening connections, not explosions, or explosives.
Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Are we discussing the 1993 bombing or the Collapses on 9/11/2001?


Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
During normal demolition implosions, a building falls within a relatively small area. However, the WTC buildings did not fall within their footprints, which was evident by widespread damage inflicted on nearby buildings. .
Normal demolitions do not involve plane crashes.





None! The Chinese Embassy in Serbia absorbed 5 JDAM bomb strikes, yet the embassy remained standing. What does that say about those who've claimed that CD explosives or thermite brought down the WTC buildings?[/quote]

That the Chinese build solid strong buildings, nothing more.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 12:25 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Ah how do you know, that seems a global assertion without evidence.

Let's just say my knowledge on what it takes to bring down a steel frame building with explosives and the preparations involved, the effects of blast waves on steel structures and war time experiences and why demolition companies do not use thermite to demolish tall steel frame buildings.


Quote:
That does not in anyway explain the origin of Aluminum copper microspheres.

That is not evidence of thermite. The investigation of dust samples found no evidence of any thermite.


Quote:
Not interested in cooking cakes too fattening.


You don't have to worry about that if the ingredients are not mixed together and baked in order to make a cake.


Quote:
Please enlighten me.

Ever wondered why thermite is not used by demolition companies to bring down tall steel frame buildings?


Quote:
Insignificant to the theory of heat weakened connections, and you have no evidence to support your claims.

More than enough evidence to support my claims. First of all, there were no thermite cuts observed, and no one saw huge flashes of thermite reactions prior to the collapse of those buildings, which would have been clearly evident on videos.


Quote:
I referenced thermite heat weakening connections, not explosions, or explosives.

Since thermite has to be firmly attached to a steel structure and the fact that the impacts were too violent for thermite to remain attached to steel columns, there was no way that thermite was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings, but the underlying fact is, no one saw thermite reactions in the WTC buildings before they collapsed. In other words, even less evidence for thermite.



Quote:
Are we discussing the 1993 bombing or the Collapses on 9/11/2001?

Yes, and I can add other steel frame buildings that have withstood multiple bomb and missile strikes and remained standing



Quote:
Normal demolitions do not involve plane crashes.

That's right!! However, the Japanese did use aircraft to sink ships built of steel.


Quote:
That the Chinese build solid strong buildings, nothing more.

So were the WTC buildings. After all, WTC 1 and WTC 2 withstood strikes by large airliners and remained standing and WTC 7 remained standing despite a huge impact gouge on its south wall that spanned several stories. Any attached explosives or thermite on the steel columns would have been dislodged and rendered ineffective.

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Old 2nd July 2016, 12:30 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
.

None! The Chinese Embassy in Serbia absorbed 5 JDAM bomb strikes, yet the embassy remained standing. What does that say about those who've claimed that CD explosives or thermite brought down the WTC buildings?

That the Chinese build solid strong buildings, nothing more.
It says that brining a building down with explisives requires tgat said explosive power must be largely directed at structural members that can result in collapse. Nothing more.

The JDAMs did what was militarily desired. It rendered the building and its interior infrastructure (plumbing, heating, electrical,communications), and any personnel inside unusable. If complete collapse is the result then sure it fits the bill. Not completely required but sufficient. Would have been better if it was the target it was thought to be though.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 01:30 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Let's just say my knowledge on what it takes to bring down a steel frame building with explosives and the preparations involved, the effects of blast waves on steel structures and war time experiences and why demolition companies do not use thermite to demolish tall steel frame buildings.





That is not evidence of thermite. The investigation of dust samples found no evidence of any thermite.






You don't have to worry about that if the ingredients are not mixed together and baked in order to make a cake.





Ever wondered why thermite is not used by demolition companies to bring down tall steel frame buildings?





More than enough evidence to support my claims. First of all, there were no thermite cuts observed, and no one saw huge flashes of thermite reactions prior to the collapse of those buildings, which would have been clearly evident on videos.





Since thermite has to be firmly attached to a steel structure and the fact that the impacts were too violent for thermite to remain attached to steel columns, there was no way that thermite was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings, but the underlying fact is, no one saw thermite reactions in the WTC buildings before they collapsed. In other words, even less evidence for thermite.






Yes, and I can add other steel frame buildings that have withstood multiple bomb and missile strikes and remained standing






That's right!! However, the Japanese did use aircraft to sink ships built of steel.





So were the WTC buildings. After all, WTC 1 and WTC 2 withstood strikes by large airliners and remained standing and WTC 7 remained standing despite a huge impact gouge on its south wall that spanned several stories. Any attached explosives or thermite on the steel columns would have been dislodged and rendered ineffective.
Since you obviously wish too make claims on your knowledge, can you tell me what this is a photo of?



You have also only made invalid global claims on the Aluminum and copper nanospheres, and have provided no possible explanation that would be logical for their formation.

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Old 2nd July 2016, 02:22 PM   #300
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No offense tfk, but this debate is a complete waste of time. Tony Sz. crossed over to the dark side, years ago. He is a true believer, he will never admit he is wrong, he will live the rest of his life driving a square peg in a round hole.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 02:37 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
No offense tfk, but this debate is a complete waste of time. Tony Sz. crossed over to the dark side, years ago. He is a true believer, he will never admit he is wrong, he will live the rest of his life driving a square peg in a round hole.
That's true, and psychiatrists agree with you, although I still admire tfk's casting of accurate engineering pearls before insolent pipsqueak swine.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 02:48 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
No offense tfk, but this debate is a complete waste of time. Tony Sz. crossed over to the dark side, years ago. He is a true believer, he will never admit he is wrong, he will live the rest of his life driving a square peg in a round hole.
It's nuts. TFK says there were 4 photographers taking pics of the pile. Tony says "What you don't know is that there were 100,000 tons of steel removed...."

Yea, Tony. And they were being photographed as they were removed.

Learn to read man.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 03:51 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
It says that brining a building down with explisives requires tgat said explosive power must be largely directed at structural members that can result in collapse. Nothing more.
Ing
The JDAMs did what was militarily desired. It rendered the building and its interior infrastructure (plumbing, heating, electrical,communications), and any personnel inside unusable. If complete collapse is the result then sure it fits the bill. Not completely required but sufficient. Would have been better if it was the target it was thought to be though.
Correct that's why cutter charges use the Monrue's effect, creating a hypersonic metal plasma.

The blast wave dissipates rapidly loosing strength the farther it is from point of detonation.

I haven't lost my mind and wisdom yet Jay.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 03:58 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
No offense tfk, but this debate is a complete waste of time. Tony Sz. crossed over to the dark side, years ago. He is a true believer, he will never admit he is wrong, he will live the rest of his life driving a square peg in a round hole.
It is worse than that, but I don't see a stunning performance from tfk I mean come on microspheres from coal fired power plants, and globs on high carbon steel?

Good thing we didn't have tfk around when we were debating Jones, we would have easily lost.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 04:09 PM   #305
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[quote=Crazy Chainsaw;11365051]Since you obviously wish too make claims on your knowledge, can you tell me what this is a photo of?

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...psc3e248df.jpg


It's a fire.


Quote:
You have also only made invalid global claims on the Aluminum and copper nanospheres, and have provided no possible explanation that would be logical for their formation.

On the contrary, I am right on the mark.

I have been aware that molten aluminum and water together can generate explosions and that iron in storage can generated temperatures high enough to start fires and that dust samples of the RJ Lee Group had shown no evidence of thermite reactions from thermite within its dust samples.

In other words, no evidence of thermite within the WTC rubble at ground zero.

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Old 2nd July 2016, 04:20 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
It is worse than that, but I don't see a stunning performance from tfk I mean come on microspheres from coal fired power plants, and globs on high carbon steel?
.

It is no secret that such spheres from combustion of petroleum and coal-based fuels are the same as the spheres from aluminum-silicate and iron.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 04:36 PM   #307
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[quote=skyeagle409;11365217]
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Since you obviously wish too make claims on your knowledge, can you tell me what this is a photo of?

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...psc3e248df.jpg


It's a fire..

No it is a self baking cake, the recipe is molten Aluminum, and oxydizing Iron.

Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
On the contrary, I am right on the mark.

I have been aware that molten aluminum and water together can generate explosions and that iron in storage can generated temperatures high enough to start fires and that dust samples of the RJ Lee Group had shown no evidence of thermite reactions from thermite within its dust samples.
One no molten Aluminum and water are not likely to cause explosions, that would take an aluminum salt.

Iron and salt water can get hot enough to cause a fire.

RJ. Lee spacificly referred the microspheres to be the product of the reduction of Iron oxide Fe203 in a chimney effect, that does not account for the Aluminum Copper microspheres.
[quote=skyeagle409;11365217
In other words, no evidence of thermite within the WTC rubble at ground zero.[/QUOTE]

How could you tell evidence of thermite from the thermitic lances used to cut the steel, that used Steel and aluminum rods to fuel the lance?
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Old 2nd July 2016, 04:38 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
It is no secret that such spheres from combustion of petroleum and coal-based fuels are the same as the spheres from aluminum-silicate and iron.
Not so fast don't the spheres from coal form from the combustion of Iron pyrite?
Aren't they mostly Fe 3O4?
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Old 2nd July 2016, 05:11 PM   #309
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[quote=Crazy Chainsaw;11365255]
Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post


No it is a self baking cake, the recipe is molten Aluminum, and oxydizing Iron.

They were using the mixture to start a fire. Read the caption from your link.


Quote:
One no molten Aluminum and water are not likely to cause explosions, that would take an aluminum salt.

False! Molten aluminum and water is a very highly explosive combination. Let's take a look at one example.


Muliple molten metal explosions destroy plant

“Our initial investigation indicates the possibility that water somehow got into a furnace in the process of melting aluminium and caused vapor explosions,” the fire department spokesman said.

http://aluminiumplantsafety.blogspot...s-destroy.html


Molten Aluminum/Water Explosions

https://www.metabunk.org/attachments...ions-pdf.6182/


Quote:
RJ. Lee spacificly referred the microspheres to be the product of the reduction of Iron oxide Fe203 in a chimney effect, that does not account for the Aluminum Copper microspheres.

There were no copper microspheres that were attributed to thermite at WTC ground zero.


Quote:
How could you tell evidence of thermite from the thermitic lances used to cut the steel, that used Steel and aluminum rods to fuel the lance?

Let me put it this way, microspheres were also produced during the construction of the WTC buildings that had nothing to do with thermite.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 05:16 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Not so fast don't the spheres from coal form from the combustion of Iron pyrite?
Aren't they mostly Fe 3O4?

Let's take a look here.


RJ Lee Group Report

https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMi....org_rjlee.jpg


And, here.


WTC Dust Signature Report
Composition and Morphology

Summary Report

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/t...Morphology.pdf


And finally, here.


Chart

http://www.wtcreflections.rjlg.com/a/i/wheel-lg.png
.

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Old 2nd July 2016, 06:16 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
[quoth=Crazy Chainsaw;11365255]


They were using the mixture to start a fire. Read the caption from your link.
I wrote the caption, my link.

Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
[
False! Molten aluminum and water is a very highly explosive combination. Let's take a look at one example.


Muliple molten metal explosions destroy plant

“Our initial investigation indicates the possibility that water somehow got into a furnace in the process of melting aluminium and caused vapor explosions,” the fire department spokesman said.

http://aluminiumplantsafety.blogspot...s-destroy.html


Molten Aluminum/Water Explosions

https://www.metabunk.org/attachments...ions-pdf.6182/
That was Aluminum salts in the melting process that leads to refined aluminum.


Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
[

There were no copper microspheres that were attributed to thermite at WTC ground zero.
Aluminum and Copper, and did RJ Lee have the only dust sample?



Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
[

Let me put it this way, microspheres were also produced during the construction of the WTC buildings that had nothing to do with thermite.
Yes microspheres do come from welding, what of it who was welding Aluminum and copper in the twin towers?

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Old 2nd July 2016, 07:04 PM   #312
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Back to the subject of this thread, I don't see how tfk could ever win, Tony will just continue to spin the debate to the fathful, all tfk does is give Tony credibility as worth debating.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 07:08 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
I wrote the caption, my link.
Is this what you wrote?

Quote:
lighting a fire with burning iron and Al

Now, when you light a match to start a fire, what's involved?


Quote:
That was Aluminum salts in the melting process that leads to refined aluminum.

Please point out where the article said anything about aluminum salts.


Quote:
Aluminum and Copper, and did RJ Lee have the only dust sample?

The RJ Lee Group was called upon to conduct a detailed dust sample investigation and its report found nothing that indicated the use of thermite. Ever wondered why Truthers threw out thermite in favor of nano-thermite? What happened to their thermite theory?


Quote:
Yes microspheres do come from welding, what of it who was welding Aluminum and copper in the twin towers?

Aluminum and copper were exposed to temperatures above their melting point from the WTC fires, which had nothing to do with thermite reactions.

Please post a WTC video that depicts thermite reactions prior to, and during the collapse of those buildings.


.

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Old 2nd July 2016, 07:48 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Is this what you wrote?




Now, when you light a match to start a fire, what's involved?
I didn't use a match the fire was started by the spontaneous combustion of Iron sulfide, and aluminum.


Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Please point out where the article said anything about aluminum salts.
Read the metabunk thread on it.



Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post

The RJ Lee Group was called upon to conduct a detailed dust sample investigation and its report found nothing that indicated the use of thermite. Ever wondered why Truthers threw out thermite in favor of nano-thermite? What happened to their thermite theory?
No why would I ?
Did you know I helped Dr. F.R. Greening to debunk microspheres as proof of thermite, in a private email debate where he was forced Dr. Steven E. Jones, to admit that microspheres could form at low temperatures in front of his supporters, forcing him to switch his research direction to the paint chips.
I mean your on the very forum where much of it was debated back in the day.




Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Aluminum and copper were exposed to temperatures above their melting point from the WTC fires, which had nothing to do with thermite reactions.
No that explanation defies logic, copper would begin to oxidize with air and in the presence of molten aluminum would cause an aluminothermic reaction, is there another possible source?

Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Please post a WTC video that depicts thermite reactions prior to, and during the collapse of those buildings.


.
The reactions inside the bolts and welds does not have to be visable to soften the metals simply implant the copper nano rod thermite inside by drilling holes in the bolts and sloting the welds.

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Old 3rd July 2016, 11:39 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
I didn't use a match the fire was started by the spontaneous combustion of Iron sulfide, and aluminum.

And, Potassium chlorate and sulfur can be found in in matchers, which are also used to start fires, yet has nothing to do with thermite. Aluminum and iron oxide can be found in buildings around the world, which have nothing to do with thermite.

Quote:
Read the metabunk thread on it.

The explosions were caused by water coming into contact with molten aluminum. It's all there in the reports.

Now, let's take a look here.


Aluminum Safety

Mixing water or other contaminants with molten aluminum can cause explosions.

http://www.aluminum.org/resources/el...ndbooks/safety


Quote:
Did you know I helped Dr. F.R. Greening to debunk microspheres as proof of thermite, in a private email debate where he was forced Dr. Steven E. Jones, to admit that microspheres could form at low temperatures in front of his supporters, forcing him to switch his research direction to the paint chips.

I didn't know you did. However, I have been aware of unfounded claims regarding thermite, nano-thermite and the red/gray chips. The microsphere issue is case where another unfounded conspiracy was hatched.


Quote:

No that explanation defies logic, copper would begin to oxidize with air and in the presence of molten aluminum would cause an aluminothermic reaction, ...

Please show us a video that depicts such a reaction prior to the collapse of the WTC buildings because WTC structural steel that was loaded for transportation from the WTC site or examined at the Fresh Kills landfill, depicted no such damage that would have been attributed to thermite.


Quote:
...The reactions inside the bolts and welds does not have to be visable to soften the metals simply implant the copper nano rod thermite inside by drilling holes in the bolts and sloting the welds.

That does not make any sense considering the amount of worked that would have been involved and the fact the collapse of the WTC Towers commenced at the aircraft impact points, and once again, violent enough to dislodge fire protection from their steel structures. Any explosives or thermite placed at those locations would have been rendered ineffective.


What are the chances that anyone would have planted explosives or thermite at the exact locations where the aircraft would strike and nowhere else?


.

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Old 3rd July 2016, 02:18 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
And, Potassium chlorate and sulfur can be found in in matchers, which are also used to start fires, yet has nothing to do with thermite. Aluminum and iron oxide can be found in buildings around the world, which have nothing to do with thermite.
So you are basicly saying the hot Fes converted to hot Fe3O4 would not react in a reduction reaction with All, leaving Fe?



Quote:
The explosions were caused by water coming into contact with molten aluminum. It's all there in the reports.
So I guess you agree with Dr.F.R. Greenings hydrogen explosion theory bringing the buildings down?

Quote:
Now, let's take a look here.


Aluminum Safety

Mixing water or other contaminants with molten aluminum can cause explosions.

http://www.aluminum.org/resources/el...ndbooks/safety
Yes steam explosion can occur they can also occur from a hot water heater.




Quote:
I didn't know you did. However, I have been aware of unfounded claims regarding thermite, nano-thermite and the red/gray chips. The microsphere issue is case where another unfounded conspiracy was hatched.
How do you know a conspiracy is unfounded if you fail to logically review the evidence?



Quote:

Please show us a video that depicts such a reaction prior to the collapse of the WTC buildings because WTC structural steel that was loaded for transportation from the WTC site or examined at the Fresh Kills landfill, depicted no such damage that would have been attributed to thermite.
Conjecture you can not tell the difference between a thermitic lance cut and thermite because both use Aluminum and steel producing the same residues!



Quote:
That does not make any sense considering the amount of worked that would have been involved and the fact the collapse of the WTC Towers commenced at the aircraft impact points, and once again, violent enough to dislodge fire protection from their steel structures. Any explosives or thermite placed at those locations would have been rendered ineffective.
Conjecture without proof or credible evidence.

Quote:
What are the chances that anyone would have planted explosives or thermite at the exact locations where the aircraft would strike and nowhere else?

.
Who said the didn't put it in other spots, the weaker the structure the faster the collapses will be.
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Old 3rd July 2016, 03:27 PM   #317
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This comment strikes me as odd:

Quote:
I am not saying that thermite continued to react in the rubble. The extreme temperatures were there from the start and thus had to be due to whatever happened in the collapse.
Is Tony claiming the fires under the debris could not grow over time? These high temperatures were recorded weeks after the collapse.
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Old 3rd July 2016, 03:40 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
This comment strikes me as odd:



Is Tony claiming the fires under the debris could not grow over time? These high temperatures were recorded weeks after the collapse.
He is claiming insulation of the rubble pile held the heat in from the thermite, a false claim
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Old 3rd July 2016, 04:00 PM   #319
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Quote:
... not saying that thermite continued to react in the rubble. The extreme temperatures were there from the start and thus had to be due to whatever happened in the collapse. The high temperatures would have continued due to the insulation provided by the rubble. The temperatures did abate over time at a relatively slow rate largely due to the amount of insulation. There is evidence of steel melting in the rubble and the temperatures needed to do that could not have been produced by fires, as Dr. Thomas Eagar explains in the paragraph entitled "The Fire" in the article at the link below. - TS
Tony's parade of lies leading to the failed fantasy of CD.
1. Thermite is a lie.
2. Extreme temperatures (failed to quantify - can't quantify) a lie.
3. The temperature in the pile was due to stuff burning in the pile.
5. Then Tony gives a references which explains there was no melted steel.

Quote:
See a photo of Dr. John Gross of NIST photographed next to a piece of steel, which has obviously experienced melting, on page 7 of the pdf here - TS
Another lie, the steel is corroded in fire. Why does Tony lie about stuff? To support his fantasy of CD.

Quote:
As for how many floors would require charges in the twin towers, I would speculate that about twenty stories would need to be demolished artificially before the collapses could be self-propagating from the top down. -TS
Tony can't do the engineering/math/physics to figure out he is wrong on this one. Fire only needed to do what we see on 9/11 to cause a self-propagating collapse - big fail for the realcddeal. 14 years of BS.

note: the free-forum has pop-ups trying to make you fall for BS - the pop-up moves you to the fake ad site... you have to page back - this occurs randomly
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Old 3rd July 2016, 04:12 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
No offense tfk, but this debate is a complete waste of time. Tony Sz. crossed over to the dark side, years ago. He is a true believer, he will never admit he is wrong, he will live the rest of his life driving a square peg in a round hole.

No offense taken.

This is an experiment. It may work, it may not.
I believe that it is progressing OK. Not great, but OK.

This is also a process.
There will be no Merry Pason moments, where either of us jumps up & shouts, "OK, OK, I did it!"

Things will evolve over time.

The most important things that I expect to emerge are Tony's
  • refusal to address certain inconvenient issues,
  • his tendency reiterate long-debunked junk,
  • the Truther's need to chase irrelevant, trivial anomalies
  • his inability to focus (the scattershot approach), and
  • his incompetent engineering
Some of this has already begun to emerge.

It'll take time.
None of the issues that I've brought up are done with.
None of the stuff that he's brought up are done with.

The 1000 word limit prohibits that.
It may take 50 words to "Just Ask a Question", but usually takes a lot more to answer them.

The one thing that is fundamentally different between us is:
  • Reality has nothing to fear from any subject. There is nothing that I won't talk about. There is absolutely no issue that cannot be raised & addressed. Reality is like that.
  • Fantasy is completely different. It depends entirely on "very selective
    topic selection".
I am confident that this will eventually emerge.


One of the benefits to this discussion is that he's already promised to address the issues that I've brought up.


As expected, he hasn't come close to following thru.
You shouldn't expect that I'll let him get away with that.

Last edited by tfk; 3rd July 2016 at 04:15 PM.
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