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Old 5th September 2016, 08:24 AM   #1
Malbec
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A dissection of the evil role Giuliani played in 9/11

https://youtu.be/Cl85JSvDmsA The 11 min video is presented by James Corbett , one of the planet's greatest independent journalists and someone hated by those who fall off the straight and narrow . He only deals in facts and the tightest of hard evidence . Here he exposes Rudy as a serial liar and crook of the highest order .It beggars belief that no independent commission has been set up to investigate the 9/11 incident . But , as James rightly says , this will never happens unless amazingly the Truth Angels ever take over matters of state treason .For those unaware of the evil role played by this truly nasty little man , this might come as a considerable shock .
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Old 5th September 2016, 08:39 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
https://youtu.be/Cl85JSvDmsA The 11 min video is presented by James Corbett , one of the planet's greatest independent journalists and someone hated by those who fall off the straight and narrow . He only deals in facts and the tightest of hard evidence . Here he exposes Rudy as a serial liar and crook of the highest order .It beggars belief that no independent commission has been set up to investigate the 9/11 incident . But , as James rightly says , this will never happens unless amazingly the Truth Angels ever take over matters of state treason .For those unaware of the evil role played by this truly nasty little man , this might come as a considerable shock .


HA HA HA HA HA HA!
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Old 5th September 2016, 10:35 AM   #3
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Independent 9/11 Commission :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission

Oh wait, now goalposts shifting starts. Lather, rinse, repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Add condescension and accusations of being a "MSM" follower, etc., ad nauseum.
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Old 5th September 2016, 10:55 AM   #4
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He also is pretty mediocre in carrying off a drag outfit. However, he does get bonus points for slapping Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8
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Old 5th September 2016, 12:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
James Corbett , one of the planet's greatest independent journalists...
for paranoid conspiracy theorists who can't think for themselves.
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Old 5th September 2016, 12:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
HA HA HA HA HA HA!
First person to publicly admit they did not watch /listen .
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Old 5th September 2016, 12:51 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Independent 9/11 Commission :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission

Oh wait, now goalposts shifting starts. Lather, rinse, repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Add condescension and accusations of being a "MSM" follower, etc., ad nauseum.
More unconsidered verbiage , Exactly which goal post has moved ? Where ? When ? Why comment if you have nothing to say ?
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Old 5th September 2016, 12:59 PM   #8
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Watched it.

What part do you think was compelling?
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Old 5th September 2016, 02:07 PM   #9
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I haven't watched this video but I've seen other videos by Corbett which is the same innuendo-fill-in-the-blanks-and-you-have-your-proof central to all conspiracy theories. So it was hard for me to take you seriously when you state he only deals in hard facts.

But I will play: as DGM asked, what did you find compelling about this video?
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Old 5th September 2016, 02:36 PM   #10
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My contract rate for reviewing and commenting on Truther material is $100/hr. That rate doubles if there proves to be a lot of unfounded nonsense. So how long is this video? And does it REALLY have something new and useful to contribute to the topic? And do you prefer to pay with AMEX, Mastercard or Paypal?
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Old 5th September 2016, 04:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
More unconsidered verbiage , Exactly which goal post has moved ? Where ? When ? Why comment if you have nothing to say ?
The goal post will move, when you address me showing there was an independent 9/11 Commission, when you said there is a shame there wasn't. You are going to come up with some reason the independent commission composed equally of Republicans and Democrats is not independent, by modifying what you meant by independent, so you don't ever have to admit being wrong.
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Old 5th September 2016, 04:35 PM   #12
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Usual recycled garbage. Apparently India and China are a trusted part of the Vast Conspiracy. Trusted to dispose of evidence that would otherwise send Giuliani and Bush to the gallows.
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Old 5th September 2016, 05:52 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
First person to publicly admit they did not watch /listen .
How did find such an idiotic video?

You posted BS from a nut on the Internet; do you fall for all the lies, or just some of the lies you find on the Internet. That was one of the dumbest video; how do you find and believe so much BS?

It would be hard to find dumber stuff... but

The WTC steel is not evidence of anything, the actions of the terrorists are the evidence. 9/11 was a crime, not an accident. The cause of the collapse of the WTC was seen on 9/11, it was fire due to a terrorist act. Thus you are fooled by BS. Paranoid people make up lies to sell stuff - ... were you fooled by the BS?
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Old 5th September 2016, 10:11 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
https://youtu.be/Cl85JSvDmsA The 11 min video is presented by James Corbett , one of the planet's greatest independent journalists and someone hated by those who fall off the straight and narrow . He only deals in facts and the tightest of hard evidence . Here he exposes Rudy as a serial liar and crook of the highest order .It beggars belief that no independent commission has been set up to investigate the 9/11 incident . But , as James rightly says , this will never happens unless amazingly the Truth Angels ever take over matters of state treason .For those unaware of the evil role played by this truly nasty little man , this might come as a considerable shock .
Are you actually admitting you believe in that idiot's nonsense?

Really?

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Old 5th September 2016, 10:23 PM   #15
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"Truth Angels"

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Old 6th September 2016, 06:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Independent 9/11 Commission :

...Oh wait, now goalposts shifting starts.
...
Under US and international law, the 9/11 commissioners are war criminals.

The 9/11 commissioners violated the Convention Against Torture, Geneva Conventions, 18 U.S. Code § 2441 - War crimes, and the Nuremburg Principles, all of which were agreed to as a result of the years of debriefing that occurred following the Holocaust.

From the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment:






"Article 15

"Each State Party shall ensure that any statement which is established to have been made as a result of torture shall not be invoked as evidence in any proceedings, except against a person accused of torture as evidence that the statement was made."

unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm (newbie here, cannot post links yet)








I find it very illuminating that not a single member of the commission has come forward to denounce their final work product for having used statements that were made as a result of torture.

They KNEW this was an important issue when they wrote their report, and they now must KNOW that folks were tortured by the interrogators in direct response to the questions that the commission submitted.

From the text box that they actually included on page 146 of the official 9/11 Commission Report:





“Chapters 5 and 7 rely heavily on information obtained from captured al-Qaeda members. A number of these ‘detainees’ have firsthand knowledge of the 9/11 plot. Assessing the truth of statements by these witnesses—sworn enemies of the United States—is challenging. Our access to them has been limited to the review of intelligence reports based on communications received from the locations where the actual interrogations take place. We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when, or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting. We were told that our requests might disrupt the sensitive interrogation process. We have nonetheless decided to include information from captured 9/11 conspirators and al-Qaeda members in our report. We have evaluated their statements carefully and have attempted to corroborate them with documents and statements of others. In this report, we indicate where such statements provide the foundation for our narrative. We have been authorized to identify by name only ten detainees whose custody has been confirmed officially by the US government.”







The report extensively uses statements obtained from Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who we now know was waterboarded hundreds of times during this time period. The lives of his children were threatened in order to obtain confessions.

The commissioners knew that their questions were being relayed to the interrogators, and they knew that the witnesses were being waterboarded. This isn't even a close call. It's a war crime. This cowardly and immoral behavior has been beneath the conduct of the United States of America since before George Washigton was even president.

This is the only evidence that exists (his confession, together with all of the others which were obtained by torture) that supports the commission's version of events. There was never any criminal investigation performed because neither they (nor NIST) recognized that it is a crime to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings. They all came to the conclusion that no crime was committed.

Why haven't ANY of the commissioners denounced the criminal conduct of their own commission, or the work product that they produced?

These folks on the commission were all selected because they were supposed to be the most trustworthy people available, beyond reproach.

Really?

This turned out to be true for only one of them. Max Cleland resigned from the commission due to their hideous conduct.
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Old 6th September 2016, 07:03 AM   #17
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It seems someone doesn't understand the Geneva Codes or the task of 9/11 Commissioners.

*Hint they weren't the ones who ordered the waterboarding and the people who were "tortured" aren't covered by the Geneva Convention anyway.
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Old 6th September 2016, 07:24 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
It seems someone doesn't understand the Geneva Codes or the task of 9/11 Commissioners.

*Hint they weren't the ones who ordered the waterboarding and the people who were "tortured" aren't covered by the Geneva Convention anyway.
All humans are covered by Geneva.

Choose your words wisely, and read what I posted. The commissioners now know, today, that these witnesses were tortured. They should know that it's illegal under all sorts of statutes to use statements obtained through torture in an official document.

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Old 6th September 2016, 07:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
The commissioners now know, today, that these witnesses were tortured. They should know that it's illegal under all sorts of statutes to use statements obtained through torture in an official document.
No, they know that it's illegal to use statements obtained through torture as evidence in any proceedings, not to use them in an official document. It seems to me that this means that statements obtained through torture cannot be used as evidence in a trial. The 9/11 Commission did not conduct any such proceedings. Morally the position of the USA as a result of the torture used in the War on Terror is pretty awful, but I think you're greatly over-reaching to claim that this specifically makes the 9/11 Commission guilty of crimes against humanity for their role in compiling the report.

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Old 6th September 2016, 07:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
... Morally the position of the USA as a result of the torture used in the War on Terror is pretty awful, but I think you're greatly over-reaching to claim that this specifically makes the 9/11 Commission guilty of crimes against humanity for their role in compiling the report.

Dave

Fair enough.

But that argument requires taking the position that the 9/11 Commission was not an official body, and that their "official" report was bogus and has no legal weight. In other words, there's been no legal finding on the 9/11 issue, or more plainly, that there is no "official" theory about what happened.

The victims have also been barred from seeking any legal recourse. Why?
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Old 6th September 2016, 08:13 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
Fair enough.

But that argument requires taking the position that the 9/11 Commission was not an official body, and that their "official" report was bogus and has no legal weight. In other words, there's been no legal finding on the 9/11 issue, or more plainly, that there is no "official" theory about what happened.
Nice concoction of truth and falsehood there. No, it simply requires the position that the 9/11 Commission was not taking legal proceedings - which it was not - but was simply tasked with assembling the best possible narrative of what happened, and recommendations for preventing a recurrence - which, to the best of its ability, it did. Your first false dilemma is between "has legal weight" and "bogus", which is clearly absurd; a report of fact cannot have legal weight, and a set of recommendations need not. And your second false dilemma is between "legal finding" and "official theory", both of which are irrelevant. There have been a multitude of legal findings related to 9/11, but the Commission report is not and was never intended to be one of them. And since when was it the responsibility of governments to compile this truther shibboleth, an "official theory," and why should such a mythical entity be considered a "legal finding"?

Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
The victims have also been barred from seeking any legal recourse. Why?
Cite, please, for any prohibition against the victims seeking recompense from al-Qaeda, the actual perpetrators of the acts? I'm sure they've been barred from seeking recompense from people or organisations who weren't responsible or negligent; any sane legal system would do that.

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Old 6th September 2016, 08:42 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
Fair enough.

But that argument requires taking the position that the 9/11 Commission was not an official body, and that their "official" report was bogus and has no legal weight. In other words, there's been no legal finding on the 9/11 issue, or more plainly, that there is no "official" theory about what happened.

The victims have also been barred from seeking any legal recourse. Why?
The "official story" has been tried in federal courts multiple times. And let's not forget that insurance litigations re the destruction and damage from Sept. 11 lasted over 10 years. Dozens of insurers and re-insurers with billions on the line never once even raised an allegation of fraud or other involvement by the government or any of the property owners or leasees. If truthers weren't so epistemologically crippled, these extensive legal records would have years ago provided them with all the answers they could ever want re Sept. 11. But for some reason they will continue to seek the "truth" from anywhere but where it can be readily ascertained.

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Old 6th September 2016, 08:53 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Nice concoction of truth and falsehood there. No, it simply requires the position that the 9/11 Commission was not taking legal proceedings - which it was not - but was simply tasked with assembling the best possible narrative of what happened, and recommendations for preventing a recurrence - which, to the best of its ability, it did. Your first false dilemma is between "has legal weight" and "bogus", which is clearly absurd; a report of fact cannot have legal weight, and a set of recommendations need not. And your second false dilemma is between "legal finding" and "official theory", both of which are irrelevant. There have been a multitude of legal findings related to 9/11, but the Commission report is not and was never intended to be one of them. And since when was it the responsibility of governments to compile this truther shibboleth, an "official theory," and why should such a mythical entity be considered a "legal finding"?



Cite, please, for any prohibition against the victims seeking recompense from al-Qaeda, the actual perpetrators of the acts? I'm sure they've been barred from seeking recompense from people or organisations who weren't responsible or negligent; any sane legal system would do that.

Dave
You just argued that there's been no legal finding as to who was behind the attack.

Please pick one side of your mouth to argue from and stick with it, at least in the same post.
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Old 6th September 2016, 08:58 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
You just argued that there's been no legal finding as to who was behind the attack.

Please pick one side of your mouth to argue from and stick with it, at least in the same post.
His post was confined to the 9/11 Commission and did not mention the Moussaoui trial.
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Old 6th September 2016, 09:03 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
There have been a multitude of legal findings related to 9/11, but the Commission report is not and was never intended to be one of them.
You just argued that there's been no legal finding as to who was behind the attack.
Reading comprehension isn't really your thing, is it?

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Old 6th September 2016, 09:21 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
Fair enough.

But that argument requires taking the position that the 9/11 Commission was not an official body, and that their "official" report was bogus and has no legal weight. In other words, there's been no legal finding on the 9/11 issue, or more plainly, that there is no "official" theory about what happened.

The victims have also been barred from seeking any legal recourse. Why?
There is no official story, there is reality; 19 terrorists took four planes and murdered people. Simple plot, too complex for 911 truth cult members.

Thus we need no official story, the evidnece proves it was 19 nuts influenced by UBL to kill Americans; and the exotic plot was basic murder too, kill pilots, fly jets into buildings. A complex plot, no wonder no one figured it out in 911 truth.

911 Commission is Congress, it was not the investigation, the FBI does crime, even the FBI figured out who had motive of all the passengers - 19 nuts for UBL. They look kind of crazy too.

There is what happened, we don't need no stinkin official story -
The 19 murderers are dead, and UBL is dead, the terrorist group can be sued, where are they?
How do get legal recourse from dead people? Did they sue McVeigh? Take all his money? Or is that another official story we don't know...

Is flying people into buildings torture? Burning them to death, or making them jump, is that torture... What does the 9/11 commission have to do with torture? Was that in the video OP? I thought the silly BS video was about too many trucks taking away debris too quick (8 months)...
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Old 6th September 2016, 11:46 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
There is no official story, there is reality; 19 terrorists took four planes and murdered people. Simple plot, too complex for 911 truth cult members.

Thus we need no official story, the evidnece proves it was 19 nuts influenced by UBL to kill Americans; and the exotic plot was basic murder too, kill pilots, fly jets into buildings. A complex plot, no wonder no one figured it out in 911 truth.

911 Commission is Congress, it was not the investigation, the FBI does crime, even the FBI figured out who had motive of all the passengers - 19 nuts for UBL. They look kind of crazy too.

There is what happened, we don't need no stinkin official story -
The 19 murderers are dead, and UBL is dead, the terrorist group can be sued, where are they?
How do get legal recourse from dead people? Did they sue McVeigh? Take all his money? Or is that another official story we don't know...


I'm not convinced that confessions obtained though torture are evidence. What else is there that ties this to those 19 people? We know that ISIS (the Pakistani intelligence agency, not ISIL) moved money to the hijackers:

Monev is Moved to the Hijackers

19. On or about June 29,2000, $5,000 was wired from the United Arab Emirates ("UAE") to Manvan al-Shehhi (#I 75) in Manhattan.

20. On or about July 18,2000, $10,000 was wired from UAE into a Florida SunTrust bank account in thc names of Mohammed Atta (#I 1) and Manvan al-Shehhi (#175).

21. On or about July 26,2000, in Germany, Ramzi Bin al-Shibh wired money to
Manvan al-Shehhi (#175) in Florida.

22. On or about August 7,2000, $9,500 was wired from UAE into a Florida SunTrust bank account in the names of Mohammed Atta (#I 1) and Manvan al-Shehhi (#175).

23. On or about August 29,2000, $20,000 was wired from UAE into a Florida
SunTrust bank account in the names of Mohammed Atta (#11) and Manvan al-Shehhi (#175).

24. On or about September 17, 2000, $70,000 was wired from UAE into a Florida SunTrust bank account in the names of Mohammed Atta (#11) and Manvan al-Shehhi (#175).

investigativeproject.org/documents/case_docs/136.pdf


Quote:
Is flying people into buildings torture? Burning them to death, or making them jump, is that torture... What does the 9/11 commission have to do with torture? Was that in the video OP? I thought the silly BS video was about too many trucks taking away debris too quick (8 months)...
There are many types of torture. In this particular case we are talking about institutionalized torture. That's a special brand of torture performed by the state. In every case in recorded history, institutionalized torture is used soley for propaganda.

This propaganda can take two forms. In one form the torture is used in order to terrorize the public, such as what was done in Abu Ghraib, and in the other form the torture is used to obtain false confessions, as was done at Gitmo.

This type of institutionalized torture is much different that any of the other kinds, such as covert torture (to find the ticking bomb) or fetish torture (to cause pain or harm.) It should be remembered that all of our career interrogators resigned under the Bush/Cheney regime, many claiming that they quit because it sickened them. I imagine that it was the fetish part where the torturers were getting aroused that made them squeamish and not the fact that the prisoners were being mistreated.
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Old 6th September 2016, 11:52 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
I'm not convinced that confessions obtained though torture are evidence. What else is there that ties this to those 19 people? We know that ISIS (the Pakistani intelligence agency, not ISIL) moved money to the hijackers:
...
Why did your fantasy version of 9/11 use 19 terrorists, when you claim it was CD.
I have to admit, most Saudis get money from other Saudis, which is really money you spent on gas - you funded 9/11. Good job.
Guess who funded Columbine?
One reason why funding is so important for 9/11, who paid for the mace, who paid for the knives. I mean 5 dollars for knives would stand out. However, if they bought their own planes, the funding would be unimportant. I don't see how funding living expenses and things students/visiting Saudis do normally in the USA would stand out...

What is your take on the OP, the idiotic video by the idiot reporter - is this part of the topic? Do you know what the topic is?

Who paid for the imaginary explosives, your dumbed down squibs? In the fantasy of CD, who paid for the explosives? It is your fantasy, why are the details lacking, missing, lost, nonexistent.
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:00 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Why did your fantasy version of 9/11 use 19 terrorists, when you claim it was CD.
I have to admit, most Saudis get money from other Saudis, which is really money you spent on gas - you funded 9/11. Good job.
Guess who funded Columbine?
One reason why funding is so important for 9/11, who paid for the mace, who paid for the knives. I mean 5 dollars for knives would stand out. However, if they bought their own planes, the funding would be unimportant. I don't see how funding living expenses and things students/visiting Saudis do normally in the USA would stand out...

What is your take on the OP, the idiotic video by the idiot reporter - is this part of the topic? Do you know what the topic is?

Who paid for the imaginary explosives, your dumbed down squibs? In the fantasy of CD, who paid for the explosives? It is your fantasy, why are the details lacking, missing, lost, nonexistent.

I generally try and answer everyone's questions, but you're all over the map here. I didn't bring up the 9/11 Commission report, someone else did, and I was simply responding to their claims.

As for the demolition squibs, that's another thread.

The OP makes the case that evidence was intentionally destroyed in the cover up of 9/11.

I don't see how anyone can seriously dispute that fact. But if they can look at demolition squibs and pretend that they are not looking at explosions, then I suppose the human imagination knows no bounds.
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
...
The OP makes the case that evidence was intentionally destroyed in the cover up of 9/11.

I don't see how anyone can seriously dispute that fact. But if they can look at demolition squibs and pretend that they are not looking at explosions, then I suppose the human imagination knows no bounds.
There was no evidence destroyed, it is a lie.
You can't name the evidence destroyed, and you can't provide evidence for a cover-up of 9/11. 19 terrorists did it, they came in planes, you don't have to reconstruct the planes, or the buildings to know what happened, it was a crime, not an accident caused by unknown factors.

As for evidence, were is the evidence for explosives; the fantasy of CD is dumbed down enough that anyone with a grade school education can see 9/11 truth is fraud, lies, fantasy, and BS all based on the overwhelming ignorance of the follower, the true believers - it is like cult, a religion. At least you can take your evidence for the cover-up and use it with Bigfoot, no evidence is good for all fantasy stuff.

Evidence for CD was destroyed by critical thinking skills.

So you don't have, and never will have evidence to back up the video, the cover-up, and destroyed evidence. Thus you have to reply to the off topic stuff, it is all that is left, more BS.
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:48 PM   #31
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I made it to 2:12 in the video before I reached my limit of stoopid. Content of exceptionally low quality even by 9/11 CT standards.
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Old 6th September 2016, 01:07 PM   #32
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Wait, are we blaming the Pakistanis for 9-11 now?

The Pakistani Government is like the George W Bush Administration of central Asia for 30 years. They have entire regions of their control that have zero government control.

Plus, where did we end up killing UBL? Oh that's right. And their ISI actually leaked their internal review of the bin Laden incident:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2...412615531.html

So yeah. Solid line of thinking.

Bottom line: Al Qaeda pulled it off.
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Old 6th September 2016, 02:17 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
The victims have also been barred from seeking any legal recourse. Why?
If my recollection is right, the victims were offered a compensation with a clause that prevented them from taking any further legal action against the U.S. Government if they accepted. So, the answer to your question is "because they chose so, by choosing to take the compensation".
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Old 6th September 2016, 04:13 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
I'm not convinced that confessions obtained though torture are evidence. What else is there that ties this to those 19 people? We know that ISIS (the Pakistani intelligence agency, not ISIL) moved money to the hijackers:

Monev is Moved to the Hijackers

19. On or about June 29,2000, $5,000 was wired from the United Arab Emirates ("UAE") to Manvan al-Shehhi (#I 75) in Manhattan.

20. On or about July 18,2000, $10,000 was wired from UAE into a Florida SunTrust bank account in thc names of Mohammed Atta (#I 1) and Manvan al-Shehhi (#175).

21. On or about July 26,2000, in Germany, Ramzi Bin al-Shibh wired money to
Manvan al-Shehhi (#175) in Florida.

22. On or about August 7,2000, $9,500 was wired from UAE into a Florida SunTrust bank account in the names of Mohammed Atta (#I 1) and Manvan al-Shehhi (#175).

23. On or about August 29,2000, $20,000 was wired from UAE into a Florida
SunTrust bank account in the names of Mohammed Atta (#11) and Manvan al-Shehhi (#175).

24. On or about September 17, 2000, $70,000 was wired from UAE into a Florida SunTrust bank account in the names of Mohammed Atta (#11) and Manvan al-Shehhi (#175).
You have established that money was indeed moved to the hijackers. What you have not established is that money came from the Pakistani ISI (not ISIS).

You don't seem to have been doing this sort of thing for long; an experienced 9-11 Truther would know that the pilot hijacker on Flight 175 was Marwan al-Shehhi, not Manvan.

And isn't this quite a ways off the purported topic of the thread, which is the evil role of Rudy Giuliani?
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Old 6th September 2016, 04:25 PM   #35
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Spelling ISI wrong is actually quite impressive, though not in a good way.

Dave
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Old 6th September 2016, 06:36 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Spelling ISI wrong is actually quite impressive, though not in a good way.

Dave
I can tell that you're very easily impressed. I'm sure your in for some much more impressive spelling errors from me.
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Old 6th September 2016, 06:53 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by steveupson View Post
I can tell that you're very easily impressed. I'm sure your in for some much more impressive spelling errors from me.
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Old 6th September 2016, 08:55 PM   #38
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I've done a quick transcript (there will probably be errors) of the video so people can discuss details more easily. I make no comment on it myself as I don't know enough about the subjects under discussion.

Originally Posted by https://youtu.be/Cl85JSvDmsA
James Corbett: After stepping down as Mayor of New York City, Rudi Giuliani tried to launch himself as a national political leader on the back of the single defining event of his career.

[Excerpts from Giuliani speeches where he mentions the 911 attacks]

JC: In the end he failed miserably, with voters immediately seeing his ploy for what it was: base political pandering.

[Exceprt from ‘Family Guy’

LOIS GRIFFIN: 911 was bad.

(audience applauds)

AUDIENCE
MEMBER: I agree with that!

LOIS GRIFFIN: God, I can’t believe how easy this is!]


JC: But what many don’t realize is that Giuliani’s case is not just that of another ghoulish politician parading on the corpses of those who died on his watch for his own political gain. On the day of 911, while the remains of the twin towers and World Trade Center 7 were still smouldering, one of Mayor Giuliani’s first concerns was clearing away the evidence from the crime scene.

[Exerpt from Giuliani speech.

‘We were able to move 120 dump-trucks out of the city last night. It should give you a sense of the work that was done overnight’]

[Excerpt from footage of dump-trucks with someone narrating.

NARRATOR: It’s wild out here. They just keep coming! Look. It doesn’t stop. There’s more. I keep thinking it’s at the end and it’s not.]


JC: Despite reassurances that the rapid removal of the evidence from ground zero was important for ‘emergency access’, this process went far beyond merely clearing a path for rescue workers. As Erik Lawyer, founder of Firefighters for 911 Truth points out, the massive operation to haul away over 1.5 million tons of debris, and to sell much of the steel to Chinese firm Baosteel at discount prices, was not just an overzealous approach to clearing the area, but was itself a crime.

[Exerpt from speech by Erik Lawyer:

EL: 911 was the greatest loss of life and property damage in US fire history. This should have been the most protected, preserved, overtested and thorough investigation of a crime scene in world history. Sadly, it was not. What was it?...Well we know from their own admission, the majority of the evidence was destroyed, like Richard said, 20 years of experience, I’ve seen a lot of crime scenes, I’ve never seen anything like this in my life. I was out at the site I saw trucks leaving faster than anywhere I’d ever seen but I accepted it at the time, and for years I accepted it because it was a recovery and rescue operation and that’s normal to have something like that going. Again, we’d never seen anything like it but that was expected. What I didn’t know for years, what was going on behind the scenes, was that evidence was being destroyed when it was shipped off. By their own admission, tower 7 investigation, NIST’s investigation of tower 7 had no physical evidence. How do you investigate a crime when you’ve destroyed all the evidence? It doesn’t make sense. They also admit that they refused to test for explosives or residue of thermite. Now, this is what I’m going to go into here just real quickly. There are national standards for an investigation; that’s what all of us are asking for: an investigation that follows national standards and holds people accountable.]


JC: Needless to say, an investigation of the 911 crime scene following the national investigation standards has never been conducted and never will be as Giuliani oversaw the illegal destruction of the evidence itself.

To add insult to this injury, in 2003 New York City medical examiner Charles Hirsch revealed that in the mad scramble to get rid of the crime scene evidence, human remains from the World Trade Center had been left at the Fresh Kills landfill where the debris was sorted and the steel was sold. In 2007 Eric Beck, a senior supervisor at the recycling facility that sifted the debris, admitted that some of those human remains ended up in a mixture that was used to pave roads and fill potholes in New York City.

But as grotesque as such revelations are, they are not the most shocking part of Giuliani’s 911 story. In the late 1990s, the Mayor oversaw the creation of a state of the art 13 million dollar emergency command center to co-ordinate the city’s disaster recovery and response efforts. Located on the 23rd floor of World Trade Center building 7, just across Vesey street from the Twin Towers, the center, dubbed by local press at the time as ‘Giuliani’s Bunker’ included reinforced, bulletproof and bomb resistant walls, its own air supply and water tank, beds, showers to accommodate thirty people and three backup generators. It could be used to monitor all of New York’s emergency communications frequencies and was staffed 24 hours a day.

And yet, remarkably, on the morning of 911, neither Mayor Giuliani nor any other city personel or police or fire department officials were in the bunker after the Twin Tower strikes.

[Excerpt from interview with Barry Jennings.

BJ: As I told you guys before it was very funny, I was on my way to work and traffic was excellent. I received a call...a small Cessna had hit the World Trade Center. I had to go and man the office of emergency management. Upon arriving into the OEM ELC, you noticed that everybody was gone. I saw coffee that was on the desks; still...the smoke was still coming off the coffee. I saw half eaten sandwiches.]


JC: So why wasn’t the Mayor and the city’s emergency personel in the location that had been purpose built for just such an event? According to Giuliani they had been told to evacuate because they had been given a warning that the Twin Towers were going to collapse. A warning that was evidently not passed on to any of the emergency personel that were still working in the buildings.

[Excerpt from interview with Rudi Giuliani

‘I went down to the scene and we set up headquarters at 75 Barclay street which was right there with the police commissioner and the fire commissioner, the head of emergency management. And we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building. So we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes and finally found an exit, got out, walked North, took a lot of people with us.]


JC: Giuliani in his own words has admitted that he was warned that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. This despite the fact that there was no possible way for this to be predicted in the first hour of the unfolding disaster. Even more incredibly, despite being given this warning, no effort was made to pass it on to the police, firefighters and other responders who were still working in and around the buildings.

When precisely was this warning given? And by whom? Why, despite acting on this warning himself, did Guiliani make no effort to pass the warning on to others?

Predictably, when confronted with these questions by activists during his 2008 presidential campaign, Giuliani merely smiled and denied that he had ever received such a warning.

[Excerpt from activists talking to Rudi Giuliani.

ACTIVIST: You reported to Peter Jennings that on 911 the towers were going to collapse and no steel structure in history has ever collapsed due to a fire. How many people were notified and who else knew about this? And how do you sleep at night?

RG: I didn’t know that the towers were going to collapse.

ACTIVIST 2: You reported to Peter Jennings...you said to Peter Jennings on ABC that you indeed said that the towers, you were notified the towers were going to collapse that’s why you were in some, I’m not sure exactly where you were prior to, but you said it on ABC video with Peter Jennings in an interview that you were aware that the towers were going to collapse in advance. We’d like to know who told you the towers were going to collapse in advance, sir? And also we’d like to know who else you told.

RG: Well the fact is that I didn’t realize the towers would collapse. I never realized that.]


JC: So where was the mayor on 911? On pier 92, which was already set up as a functional command center due to a full scale emergency drill by FEMA that, by a remarkable coincidence, had been scheduled for the following day.

[Excerpt of Rudi Giuliani speaking at the 9/11 Commission Hearing.

RG: And we selected pier 92 as our command center. And the reason pier 92 was selected as the command center was because on...next day on September 12th, pier 92 was going to have a drill. It had hundreds of people here, from FEMA, from the federal government, from the state, from the state emergency management office. And they were getting ready for a drill for biochemical attack. So that was going to be the place they were going to have the drill. The equipment was already there, so we were able to establish a command center there within three days that was 2 and a half to 3 times bigger than the command center that we had lost at 7 World Trade Center. And it was from there that the rest of the search and rescue effort was completed.]


JC: Mayor Giuliani oversaw the illegal destruction of the 911 crime scene, and is criminally liable for the deaths of hundreds of emergency workers for not passing on prior warnings about the collapses of the Twin Towers. It is no wonder then that the Fire Department of New York so passionately detest Giuliani for his actions in disgracing their fallen brothers and covering up the 911 crime.

[Excerpt from Harold A. Schaitberger.

HAS: Rudi Giuliani has used a horrible event, September 11th 2001, to create a carefully crafted persona. But the fact is what Rudi portrays is not a full picture...for the decisions made that lead, in our view, to the uneccesary deaths of our FDNY members, and the attempt to stop the dignified recovery of those lost. The urban legend of America’s Mayor needs to be balanced by the truth.]


JC: So what is the reward for Giuliani’s criminal actions on 911? An offer to become the head of the department of homeland security in the event of a Trump presidency, of course. This is the state of American politics. And this is precisely why a true investigation of what happened on 911 never has and never will be conducted by the US government itself.
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Old 6th September 2016, 11:51 PM   #39
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Jeez, this moronic stuff again:

Quote:
‘I went down to the scene and we set up headquarters at 75 Barclay street which was right there with the police commissioner and the fire commissioner, the head of emergency management. And we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building. So we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes and finally found an exit, got out, walked North, took a lot of people with us.]

JC: Giuliani in his own words has admitted that he was warned that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. This despite the fact that there was no possible way for this to be predicted in the first hour of the unfolding disaster. Even more incredibly, despite being given this warning, no effort was made to pass it on to the police, firefighters and other responders who were still working in and around the buildings.
There's a compound word for that and the first part is bull. In fact, there was a warning given that the WTC might collapse. EMT Division Chief John Peruggia, who had set up a triage operation at WTC-7:

Quote:
I was in a discussion with Mr. Rotanz and I believe it was a representative from the Department of Buildings, but I'm not sure. Some engineer type person, and several of us were huddled talking in the lobby and it was brought to my attention, it was believed that the structural damage that was suffered to the towers was quite significant and they were very confident that the building's stability was compromised and they felt that the north tower was in danger of a near imminent collapse.

I grabbed EMT Zarrillo, I advised him of that information. I told him he was to proceed immediately to the command post where Chief Ganci was located. Told him where it was across the street from number 1 World Trade Center. I told him 'You see Chief Ganci and Chief Ganci only. Provide him with the information that the building integrity is severely compromised and they believe the building is in danger of imminent collapse.' So, he left off in that direction.
So there was certainly a prediction that at least one of the buildings (the North Tower) could collapse. Of course from WTC-7, the engineer type person could not see the damage to the South Tower. And I suspect that somebody else relayed the information to Mayor Giuliani, who was close enough to the collapse of WTC-2 that the collapse trapped him in the 75 Barclay Street building.

Unfortunately, Zarillo got to Ganci a moment too late; just as he gave the Chief the information the South Tower collapsed and Ganci was killed by falling debris.
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Old 7th September 2016, 07:54 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
I've done a quick transcript (there will probably be errors) of the video so people can discuss details more easily. I make no comment on it myself as I don't know enough about the subjects under discussion.
Even more pathetic in transcript form than it was watching it.
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