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Old 20th September 2016, 05:53 PM   #41
beachnut
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9/11 truth has no clue FBI investigated 9/11 - OffG goes woo on 9/11

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Somehow reminds me of the classic dialogue I had with Mark "Gravy" Roberts back in 2007 which settled the fate of the "debunker" movement.

http://i.imgur.com/q47JztL.png
That is funny, and exposes a need to spread BS, and about the same failed logic as seen at OffG, as they publish idiotic 9/11 truth nonsense. 15 years of BS, and OffG is late to the celebration of ignorance, lies and fantasy.

The FBI investigated 9/11, not congress. You don't seem to understand what the commission did, what their goal was. But feel free to investigate 9/11, you will find 19 idiots for UBL did 9/11 using our custom of how we react to hijacking to trick us. Flight 93 passengers figure out 9/11 in minutes, and here is 9/11 truth with 15 years of idiotic claims and BS like your cartoon, silly talk, as their only evidence, and no clue what happened on 9/11. How is CIT doing, and your NoC, is that still a false claim you have on 9/11? 15 years, and you spew BS about the 9/11 commission. Matches the BS of OffG, and is Alex Jones like dumbed down logic.

Do you want to redo the FBI investigation?
Did you miss 19 terrorists did 9/11.
Why is OffG spewing 9/11 truth BS? Are the editors trying to increase the traffic from the CTers, or are they CTers who failed to figure out 9/11.

What is true, they publish 9/11 truth nutcase claims, and have no clue, or are they looking for traffic increase, and to be more like the idiotic BS at PrisonPlanet or InfoWars.

This is your best effort to support a new investigation? What will you investigate? Why is OffG so darn gullible?

Got some evidence for 9/11 truth claims? No. Nothing new. One of the editors at OffG thinks Harrit needs debunking. Now that is so truthy.
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Old 20th September 2016, 07:03 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Somehow reminds me of the classic dialogue I had with Mark "Gravy" Roberts back in 2007 which settled the fate of the "debunker" movement.
We ran out of things to debunk, nothing ever rose to a serious enough challenge and it was all debunked.

What do you have specifically that hasn't been debunked?

Say, how's your Twitter poll?
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Old 20th September 2016, 11:02 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Somehow reminds me of the classic dialogue I had with Mark "Gravy" Roberts back in 2007 which settled the fate of the "debunker" movement.

http://i.imgur.com/q47JztL.png

In reference to the cartoon, there are many demolition and structural experts who agree that fire, not explosives, was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings, which is understandable considering there is no audio, hardware or seismic evidence that CD explosions occurred and there's no visual evidence of extremely bright thermite reactions as the WTC buildings collapse. I might add that CD explosives leave evidence behind that can be traced.

What is amazing is that Truthers pick ineffective thermite over RDX, but RDX is much more efficient and effective than thermite. I guess they haven't figured out why RDX is used by demolition companies instead of thermite during explosive demolition implosions of steel-framed buildings.
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Old 21st September 2016, 12:38 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Somehow reminds me of the classic dialogue I had with Mark "Gravy" Roberts back in 2007 which settled the fate of the "debunker" movement.
Yes, now we've all been imprisoned for treason it's easy to find time to post. I'll say hello to Dick Cheney for you when I see him in the exercise yard.

In the real world, it's not that hard to tell, between the "truth" movement and the "debunker" movement, which one is a dismal failure.

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Old 21st September 2016, 07:58 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
At the end is a mail address for submissions and it seems I was right in assuming that a half-way quality work of THE top 9/11 debunking community on the net (and it is, boggis the cat, you came to the best place there is) has a good chance of being published there.
It appears you are expecting members of this forum to drop everything and co-operate in writing a paper debunking (yet again) every one of the Gish Gallop/ JAQing-off musings of some random Internet site, which it appears most of us had never heard of until a few days ago.
Does this seem in any way realistic to you? Most of us have jobs and lives and stuff. We live in different parts of the world, separated by varied time zones. We are not some Borg hive-mind: we are disparate individuals with some interests in common. Frankly, why on earth would you expect this? All the information to answer (yet again) the questions in the Off-Guardian article is available right here. Just use the search function. Or perhaps follow the links provided by SkyEagle, which were mysteriously absent from the hatchet job in the second O-G article.
Demanding a completely unrealistic and unnecesary action, and then crowing when it does not materialise is a cheap way of debating.
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Maybe patience is running out a bit as it seems that the previous article was flooded by the known psycho-style ad hominem ravings of the usual suspects, some of which passed the moderation as example.
Interesting that you should raise the topic of ad hominem ravings that somehow passed moderation. You still owe me an apology for doing exactly that, in Henri McPhee's ISIS thread. Your pointed and personal attack on me and my argument was refuted by the very person you thought you were defending.
If you expect a collective mea culpa from members here, why not set an example yourself? Or, if you're a bit shy, you can always PM me. It'll be our little secret...

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'd say this is the last chance for any relevancy of the subforum clubhouse, and well, I wrote about my expectations already.
I must have missed the part in the MA when I joined, that said that the relevancy of my contribution was going to be judged by an obscure site, of which I had no knowledge until this thread was started. Perhaps you could point that out.
CE, could you please explain by what means and criteria has Off-Guardian been given the right to pass judgement on this sub-forum? Not to put too fine a point on it, can you explain why I should give a tinker's cuss what those people think about this forum?
Every single truther that has arrived here has had a, shall we say, vigorous, education in reality. They then divide into two camps: those who either disappear with their tails between their legs or who commit suicide by mod, and those like yourself who stick around, impervious to facts, resistant to education, and seemingly only motivated by a misplaced sense of superiority. futilely sniping from the sidelines, having been unable to substantiate any part of your arguments.
Were I a disinterested outside observer, I think it would be readily apparent where relevance and credibility should be assigned.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
to the good people over at Off Guardian.
To the good people at Off-Guardian: You are welcome to join this forum and ask questions yourselves, rather than relying on a highly selective parsing of the debate so far. If I was feeling mean, I might invite you to collectively write an article setting out your case for 9/11 being an inside job, and set an unreasonable deadline for it. However, I am not mean-spirited. Join, ask and be answered. You may well encounter some snark. Most of the issues in the original article have been answered ad nauseam, and so there will be a certain sense of weariness at having to do it all again. However, if you are genuine in seeking answers, you will receive them.
Just be ready to accept them, is all I would caution. Truth can hurt, and there's no mollycoddling here. (Hi Beachnut!)
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Old 21st September 2016, 09:14 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
... (Hi Beachnut!)
Their cookies use your browser history/cookies to tailor the ads. Is the conspiracy behind CT web sites like OffG, capitalism? Where is my check.

Their first article kicking off the 9/11 truther celebration of ignorance fest was related to book about CTs. The author is upset he is called a CTer, so he fights back and makes up BS, he is being robbed of Democracy. 9/11 is a State Crimes Against Democracy, 9/11 a SCAD. Ignore UBL and the end run his 19 dolts executed faking hijackings and using the aircraft as weapons to murder Americans.

The OffG 9/11 truth followers have no clue they don't have evidence. I have never see so much skill at sourcing, references anotataed like a thesis paper, hearsay, opinions, and quote mines. It must be some mental pattern that matches the 9/11 truth gullible followers, they must like what they copy and paste, it matches some internal bias, and they forget to think for themselves, and stop being skeptical of the BS they adopt, and deny the evidence 19 terrorists did 9/11.

What can I learn from the ignorance of 9/11 truth, will help stain the windows, refinish furniture today, help repair the wallboard in the bathroom and match the texture of the finish; will critical thinking skills save me some time, and help me solve how to make the bathroom look right; is 9/11 truth helping plugging the lawn to plant grass, as summer sneaks off to down under...

Anyway, OffG 9/11 truth believers, please bring evidence, it has been 15 years; if you study hard and check your evidence, you will find it is NOT evidence, it is hearsay, quote mined BS, BS, nonsense, lies, fantasy, false information, failed logic, opinions, and dumbed down claims. 9/11 truth is evidence free BS; why is OffG celebrating 15 years of ignorance by 9/11 truth nuts?
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Last edited by beachnut; 21st September 2016 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 21st September 2016, 10:26 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
Is there anyone interested in having a look at what has been posted up already, and possibly cobbling something together for them? They seem quite willing to put up just about anything as an article (don't take my word for it, go look).

Also, if anything I have stated about the NIST reports is off then let me know (and / or comment on that site).

Some people were complaining about the lack of 'truther' action here -- so now's your chance to go and engage with the woo!

Question answered, thread closed.
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Old 21st September 2016, 10:32 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Question answered, thread closed.
Great, now you have time to work on your Twitter poll!

As for the Off-Guardian article: nothing new there. Just name-calling folks who dispute Truthers as "psuedo-skeptics", as if their ideas can't be questioned by anyone who is skeptical.
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Old 21st September 2016, 01:18 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
In the real world, it's not that hard to tell, between the "truth" movement and the "debunker" movement, which one is a dismal failure.

Dave

Correct you are!

Truthers have made a mockery of themselves as they continued to post disinformation that was deliberately planted in order to discredit them. Now, Truthers are fighting among themselves such as Judy Wood attacking Richard Gage and Niels Harrit by name.
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Old 21st September 2016, 06:27 PM   #50
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What is a debunker movement? Why is one needed? Lies and false statements have short legs.. they don't go very far.
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Old 21st September 2016, 06:55 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
Lies and false statements have short legs.. they don't go very far.
I don't believe that most Jews would agree with you.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 12:35 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Question answered, thread closed.
Not quite. Could someone please repost this, as it seems CE has me on his ignore list?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
It appears you are expecting members of this forum to drop everything and co-operate in writing a paper debunking (yet again) every one of the Gish Gallop/ JAQing-off musings of some random Internet site, which it appears most of us had never heard of until a few days ago.
Does this seem in any way realistic to you? Most of us have jobs and lives and stuff. We live in different parts of the world, separated by varied time zones. We are not some Borg hive-mind: we are disparate individuals with some interests in common. Frankly, why on earth would you expect this? All the information to answer (yet again) the questions in the Off-Guardian article is available right here. Just use the search function. Or perhaps follow the links provided by SkyEagle, which were mysteriously absent from the hatchet job in the second O-G article.
Demanding a completely unrealistic and unnecesary action, and then crowing when it does not materialise is a cheap way of debating.

Interesting that you should raise the topic of ad hominem ravings that somehow passed moderation. You still owe me an apology for doing exactly that, in Henri McPhee's ISIS thread. Your pointed and personal attack on me and my argument was refuted by the very person you thought you were defending.
If you expect a collective mea culpa from members here, why not set an example yourself? Or, if you're a bit shy, you can always PM me. It'll be our little secret...



I must have missed the part in the MA when I joined, that said that the relevancy of my contribution was going to be judged by an obscure site, of which I had no knowledge until this thread was started. Perhaps you could point that out.
CE, could you please explain by what means and criteria has Off-Guardian been given the right to pass judgement on this sub-forum? Not to put too fine a point on it, can you explain why I should give a tinker's cuss what those people think about this forum?
Every single truther that has arrived here has had a, shall we say, vigorous, education in reality. They then divide into two camps: those who either disappear with their tails between their legs or who commit suicide by mod, and those like yourself who stick around, impervious to facts, resistant to education, and seemingly only motivated by a misplaced sense of superiority. futilely sniping from the sidelines, having been unable to substantiate any part of your arguments.
Were I a disinterested outside observer, I think it would be readily apparent where relevance and credibility should be assigned.



To the good people at Off-Guardian: You are welcome to join this forum and ask questions yourselves, rather than relying on a highly selective parsing of the debate so far. If I was feeling mean, I might invite you to collectively write an article setting out your case for 9/11 being an inside job, and set an unreasonable deadline for it. However, I am not mean-spirited. Join, ask and be answered. You may well encounter some snark. Most of the issues in the original article have been answered ad nauseam, and so there will be a certain sense of weariness at having to do it all again. However, if you are genuine in seeking answers, you will receive them.
Just be ready to accept them, is all I would caution. Truth can hurt, and there's no mollycoddling here. (Hi Beachnut!)
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Old 22nd September 2016, 03:35 AM   #53
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Done as a birthday present to myself

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Not quite. Could someone please repost this, as it seems CE has me on his ignore list?
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
It appears you are expecting members of this forum to drop everything and co-operate in writing a paper debunking (yet again) every one of the Gish Gallop/ JAQing-off musings of some random Internet site, which it appears most of us had never heard of until a few days ago.
Does this seem in any way realistic to you? Most of us have jobs and lives and stuff. We live in different parts of the world, separated by varied time zones. We are not some Borg hive-mind: we are disparate individuals with some interests in common. Frankly, why on earth would you expect this? All the information to answer (yet again) the questions in the Off-Guardian article is available right here. Just use the search function. Or perhaps follow the links provided by SkyEagle, which were mysteriously absent from the hatchet job in the second O-G article.
Demanding a completely unrealistic and unnecesary action, and then crowing when it does not materialise is a cheap way of debating.

Interesting that you should raise the topic of ad hominem ravings that somehow passed moderation. You still owe me an apology for doing exactly that, in Henri McPhee's ISIS thread. Your pointed and personal attack on me and my argument was refuted by the very person you thought you were defending.
If you expect a collective mea culpa from members here, why not set an example yourself? Or, if you're a bit shy, you can always PM me. It'll be our little secret...



I must have missed the part in the MA when I joined, that said that the relevancy of my contribution was going to be judged by an obscure site, of which I had no knowledge until this thread was started. Perhaps you could point that out.
CE, could you please explain by what means and criteria has Off-Guardian been given the right to pass judgement on this sub-forum? Not to put too fine a point on it, can you explain why I should give a tinker's cuss what those people think about this forum?
Every single truther that has arrived here has had a, shall we say, vigorous, education in reality. They then divide into two camps: those who either disappear with their tails between their legs or who commit suicide by mod, and those like yourself who stick around, impervious to facts, resistant to education, and seemingly only motivated by a misplaced sense of superiority. futilely sniping from the sidelines, having been unable to substantiate any part of your arguments.
Were I a disinterested outside observer, I think it would be readily apparent where relevance and credibility should be assigned.



To the good people at Off-Guardian: You are welcome to join this forum and ask questions yourselves, rather than relying on a highly selective parsing of the debate so far. If I was feeling mean, I might invite you to collectively write an article setting out your case for 9/11 being an inside job, and set an unreasonable deadline for it. However, I am not mean-spirited. Join, ask and be answered. You may well encounter some snark. Most of the issues in the original article have been answered ad nauseam, and so there will be a certain sense of weariness at having to do it all again. However, if you are genuine in seeking answers, you will receive them.
Just be ready to accept them, is all I would caution. Truth can hurt, and there's no mollycoddling here. (Hi Beachnut!)
Fitz
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Howard Beale, "Network"
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Old 22nd September 2016, 04:00 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by fitzgibbon View Post
Done as a birthday present to myself



Fitz
Thanks, old boy!
Let's see if it bears fruit.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 05:05 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
Hello to all.

("boggis the cat" aka Jerome Fryer.)

I have been spending some time trying to counter a flood of heavily 'truther' biased articles that have been put up on this news blog style website: off-guardian.org

The editors / moderators have been asking me to write some sort of rebuttal to the 'truther' woo that is being peddled there, but I am not qualified to make a strong case for the no-conspiracy / physics is adequate argument. They have stuck up the usual old stuff, and the latest 'peer reviewed' bunk.

Is there anyone interested in having a look at what has been posted up already, and possibly cobbling something together for them? They seem quite willing to put up just about anything as an article (don't take my word for it, go look).

Also, if anything I have stated about the NIST reports is off then let me know (and / or comment on that site).

Some people were complaining about the lack of 'truther' action here -- so now's your chance to go and engage with the woo!
Hello Mr cat. I left you a comment on another thread here where you have also posted but no reply from you...http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2123

I remind you there about a challenge brought up in a comment to you at off-guardian:
Quote:
"...If you want to have a real discussion I challenge you to a one on one email discussion which we can make public later. My email: ziggizugam@gmail.com"
https://off-guardian.org/2016/09/12/...#comment-41888
The people running off-guardian also know about this challenge..
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Old 22nd September 2016, 06:09 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Hello Mr cat. I left you a comment on another thread here where you have also posted but no reply from you...http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2123

I remind you there about a challenge brought up in a comment to you at off-guardian:


The people running off-guardian also know about this challenge..
I think you may be just a bit delusional, "Ziggi". You claim in your other post that Chris Mohr has somehow admitted defeat based on your personal brilliance in supporting the woo?

I'm sure that you can back that assertion up -- with evidence of some sort, right?

I have already responded to the OffG editors, pointing out that there is no point (in my view) in providing a non-expert, partially informed, counter argument to the 'truther' woo. That merely makes people assume that this is a matter of opinions, when it is a matter of either taking a scientific approach and assessing known reality, or simply shouting 'explosives!' (Then getting suckers to buy your books and other woo-based materials.)

My main point is that when faced with a level of wilfull ignorance from people like Harrit (repeating the erroneous WTC 7 "six and a half second collapse time", presumably because he never bothered to look into that original claim) there is no way to have a debate. You can't debate that level of stupid.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 07:31 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
I think you may be just a bit delusional, "Ziggi". You claim in your other post that Chris Mohr has somehow admitted defeat based on your personal brilliance in supporting the woo?

I'm sure that you can back that assertion up -- with evidence of some sort, right?
I said that the last person to accept my challenge, Chris Mohr, ended up leaving the 911debate scene for good and that he begged me to keep the arguments he made a secret - and yes I do have the evidence for those assertions on file, namely all our emails.

Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
..I have already responded to the OffG editors, pointing out that there is no point (in my view) in providing a non-expert, partially informed, counter argument to the 'truther' woo. That merely makes people assume that this is a matter of opinions, when it is a matter of either taking a scientific approach and assessing known reality, or simply shouting 'explosives!' (Then getting suckers to buy your books and other woo-based materials.)

My main point is that when faced with a level of wilfull ignorance from people like Harrit (repeating the erroneous WTC 7 "six and a half second collapse time", presumably because he never bothered to look into that original claim) there is no way to have a debate. You can't debate that level of stupid.
The stupid non-way to have a proper debate is the way you are going right now, making baseless bare assertions about a subject you know nothing about; you came here a couple of days ago confessing your ignorance and begging for help to debunk truther arguments. But when pressed with a challenge to enter a proper one-on-one debate where you have to reason with real arguments and give proper citations, your tail falls between you legs and you make up excuses to avoid the situation - and that is what I told the people at off-guard I expected to happen, and I am sure they did as well. You have provided the expected final answer to my challenge:

Quote:
If you think you are more likely to to be able to back up your claims than Chris Mohr who used to be the main "debunker" around here and engineer tfk, who had both spent years on this forum, then accept my challenge.

I wont waste time on you here or at off-guardian, but if you think you really know something about these things then you have my email.
There is nothing more to say.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 10:37 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
Hello to all.

("boggis the cat" aka Jerome Fryer.)

I have been spending some time trying to counter a flood of heavily 'truther' biased articles that have been put up on this news blog style website: off-guardian.org

The editors / moderators have been asking me to write some sort of rebuttal to the 'truther' woo that is being peddled there, but I am not qualified to make a strong case for the no-conspiracy / physics is adequate argument. They have stuck up the usual old stuff, and the latest 'peer reviewed' bunk.

Is there anyone interested in having a look at what has been posted up already, and possibly cobbling something together for them? They seem quite willing to put up just about anything as an article (don't take my word for it, go look).

Also, if anything I have stated about the NIST reports is off then let me know (and / or comment on that site).

Some people were complaining about the lack of 'truther' action here -- so now's your chance to go and engage with the woo!

I decided to take a trip to that link and found this interesting.

Quote:
Steve Spak’s footage of WTC7

Prior to 9/11 no steel frame high rise building had ever collapsed completely as a result of fire, nor has one done so since. NIST’s fire-induced collapse theory for WTC 1, 2 and 7 therefore describes a unique event that needs to be carefully examined.

https://off-guardian.org/2016/09/16/...otage-of-wtc7/

What the article failed to mention was those other buildings were not struck by B-767's at high speed nor did they suffered massive impact damage which WTC 7 suffered as a result of debris from the collapse of WTC 1, which was struck by a plane.

I've noticed he didn't say anything about the Windsor Building fire where its outer steel structural collapsed due to the fire and the only thing that prevented a full collapse of the building was the concrete core. I also noticed he didn't say a thing about the total collapse of a 21-story steel frame building in Mexico City.

The question is, why didn't he bring up those facts?

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Old 22nd September 2016, 10:49 PM   #59
boggis the cat
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When you do bring up examples such as those, they just hand-wave and assert that those examples are different so not comparable.

1) The WTC collapses are 'suspicious' because nothing comparable has ever happened.

2) Any comparable examples aren't really comparable, because the WTC events were unique.

3) Profit!

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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:00 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
I said that the last person to accept my challenge, Chris Mohr, ended up leaving the 911debate scene for good and that he begged me to keep the arguments he made a secret - and yes I do have the evidence for those assertions on file, namely all our emails.
Chris would back that assertion up?
Quote:
The stupid non-way to have a proper debate is the way you are going right now, making baseless bare assertions about a subject you know nothing about;
I seem to be doing OK.

That's not down to the strength of my grasp of the various nuances and detail, however -- it's down to the average 'truther' being averse to doing any thinking for themselves.
Quote:
you came here a couple of days ago confessing your ignorance and begging for help to debunk truther arguments.
No, I passed on the invitation that the OffG editors extended.
Quote:
But when pressed with a challenge to enter a proper one-on-one debate where you have to reason with real arguments and give proper citations, your tail falls between you legs and you make up excuses to avoid the situation - and that is what I told the people at off-guard I expected to happen, and I am sure they did as well. You have provided the expected final answer to my challenge:

[quote from yourself(?), with no "answer" from me]

There is nothing more to say.
You're a bit of a wind-bag.

Can you tell the difference between paint chips and residue from nano-thermite?
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:19 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
When you do bring up examples such as those, they just hand-wave and assert that those examples are different so not comparable.

1) The WTC collapses are 'suspicious' because nothing comparable has ever happened.

2) Any comparable examples aren't really comparable, because the WTC events were unique.

I have to say that what happened to WTC 1 and WTC 2 was unique by the fact they were struck by B-767's with heavy loads of fuel.

WTC 7 suffered massive impact damage from debris from WTC 1 that scooped out a huge hole on its south wall. Fire fighters remarked that WTC 1 debris had scooped out several stories of its south wall, which would have had serious effects on the load-carry integrity of its steel structure as it redistributed its structural loads in the presence of uncontrolled fires that raged for hours.

Quote:
3) Profit!
Larry Silverstein lost a court case in which he tried to recover billions of dollars from American Airlines and United Airlines.

On another note, Truthers had no problem posting a hoaxed video of WTC 7 they claimed proved explosives were used in addition to a hoaxed photo they claimed was molten steel when in fact, they were looking at reflected light.

Two examples of many as to how Truthers have made a mockery of themselves over the years. Some Truthers no longer post after I revealed that some of the references they posted in their arguments against me was deliberately planted knowing they would post that disinformation. Apparently, they never noticed that the hoaxed video was a reversed imagery of WTC 7 which was a clue the video was doctored.

Simply amazing!!

.

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Old 23rd September 2016, 04:39 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
I said that the last person to accept my challenge, Chris Mohr, ended up leaving the 911debate scene for good and that he begged me to keep the arguments he made a secret - and yes I do have the evidence for those assertions on file, namely all our emails.



The stupid non-way to have a proper debate is the way you are going right now, making baseless bare assertions about a subject you know nothing about; you came here a couple of days ago confessing your ignorance and begging for help to debunk truther arguments. But when pressed with a challenge to enter a proper one-on-one debate where you have to reason with real arguments and give proper citations, your tail falls between you legs and you make up excuses to avoid the situation - and that is what I told the people at off-guard I expected to happen, and I am sure they did as well. You have provided the expected final answer to my challenge:



There is nothing more to say.
You mean like Steven Jones tucked his tail between his legs and ran from the microspheres debate years ago?
After losing so badly, oh yes Ziggi I have those EMAILS too. Where Jones admitted iron microspheres could be formed at low temperatures.
After losing the microspheres debate he made up the paint chip BS.
Tell me Ziggi is it just incompetent behavior that your truther scientist, suck at experimental Science or is it deliberate fraud?

You know Jones never did one accurate experiment in his life, his whole career was one pesudo science failure after another!
Kinda feel sorry for the King of stupid Woo.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 05:32 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
When you do bring up examples such as those, they just hand-wave and assert that those examples are different so not comparable.

1) The WTC collapses are 'suspicious' because nothing comparable has ever happened.

2) Any comparable examples aren't really comparable, because the WTC events were unique.

3) Profit!

Just point out the basic fact Twoofers don't do Science.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 06:15 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Somehow reminds me of the classic dialogue I had with Mark "Gravy" Roberts back in 2007 which settled the fate of the "debunker" movement.

http://i.imgur.com/q47JztL.png
That is indeed a classic . Another good one is when they try to pretend their results are evidence against the US state having done it.

One thing I don't understand though, why the CD? As far as I know the planes would indeed be enough to make the towers collapse, and you've already got the planes there anyway, so why the CD?
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Old 23rd September 2016, 06:24 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
One thing I don't understand though, why the CD? As far as I know the planes would indeed be enough to make the towers collapse, and you've already got the planes there anyway, so why the CD?
Both towers withstood the initial impacts. WTC 2 may have been fatally compromised by the damage (having a lot more load above the damaged section), but WTC 1 probably wasn't.

However, you then have the fires.

Fire is not a friend to structural steel, which is the reason they coat it with materials intended to reduce the heating effects.

NIST believe that the impacts knocked a lot of the coatings off, while Arup seem to think that wasn't relevant and that widespread fire alone would have caused collapse. In either case: fire was the biggest problem.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 06:30 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
Both towers withstood the initial impacts. WTC 2 may have been fatally compromised by the damage (having a lot more load above the damaged section), but WTC 1 probably wasn't.

However, you then have the fires.

Fire is not a friend to structural steel, which is the reason they coat it with materials intended to reduce the heating effects.

NIST believe that the impacts knocked a lot of the coatings off, while Arup seem to think that wasn't relevant and that widespread fire alone would have caused collapse. In either case: fire was the biggest problem.
Why exactly are you writing four paragraphs explaining something I already know whilst neglecting to answer my question?
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Old 23rd September 2016, 06:36 AM   #67
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You answered your own question.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 06:39 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
You answered your own question.
No I didn't. If I had then I wouldn't have asked it. And neither did you. So unless you're going to, I'm going to stop this tangent because it is uninformative.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 07:24 AM   #69
boggis the cat
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Your question was "Why the CD?"

There was no requirement for such a thing, as you recognise. So you either decide that there was no CD (rational), or that there was CD despite it not being required (irrational).

Thus, your answer is in your question.

Unless you stumbled into a skeptics forum accidentally, and can't figure out what everyone is on about. Always a possibility, I suppose.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 07:50 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
Your question was "Why the CD?"

There was no requirement for such a thing, as you recognise. So you either decide that there was no CD (rational), or that there was CD despite it not being required (irrational).

Thus, your answer is in your question.

Unless you stumbled into a skeptics forum accidentally, and can't figure out what everyone is on about. Always a possibility, I suppose.
Pseudo-skeptics or real skeptics? They both call themselves "skeptics" and, if anything, pseudo-skeptics would be more numerous as well as more likely to declare themselves to be "skeptics".

On the CD thing, nevermind, I'll just wait for Childlike Empress to answer.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 08:25 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Pseudo-skeptics or real skeptics? They both call themselves "skeptics" and, if anything, pseudo-skeptics would be more numerous as well as more likely to declare themselves to be "skeptics".

On the CD thing, nevermind, I'll just wait for Childlike Empress to answer.
CE is busy tallying up Twitter poll results on whether free fall is a matter of acceleration or a matter of velocity, with regards to gravity.

Because free fall is funny, for some reason, with regards to people who are skeptical of controlled demolition theories, known perjorativly by CE as "duhbunkers".
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Old 23rd September 2016, 08:41 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by caveman1917;11504999, I'll just wait for [B
Childlike Empress[/b] to answer.
Join the queue, mate, I was here first. I can hear tiny regal footsteps receding in the distance....
Any time you're ready, CE, I'll be here.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 10:15 AM   #73
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debate fantasy? really

Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
I said that the last person to accept my challenge, Chris Mohr, ended up leaving the 911debate scene for good and that he begged me to keep the arguments he made a secret - and yes I do have the evidence for those assertions on file, namely all our emails.



The stupid non-way to have a proper debate is the way you are going right now, making baseless bare assertions about a subject you know nothing about; you came here a couple of days ago confessing your ignorance and begging for help to debunk truther arguments. But when pressed with a challenge to enter a proper one-on-one debate where you have to reason with real arguments and give proper citations, your tail falls between you legs and you make up excuses to avoid the situation - and that is what I told the people at off-guard I expected to happen, and I am sure they did as well. You have provided the expected final answer to my challenge:



There is nothing more to say.
There is nothing to debate, you have a fantasy based on zero evidence. Debate ended. Chris won, he did not leave, he won, game over, you lost. Now you make up BS, and fail to think for yourself.

How do you debate the fantasy of thermite? It is based on gullibility. Anyone who believes thermite was used on 9/11 is gullible, easy to fool, not very good at science, logic, and failing to use critical thinking skill.

OffG is perfect for your BS, it is like an Alex Jones site that does not YELL and act like a crazy fat white guy (like me). It has woo minded sofisiticated conspracyt theoriets reliving 9/11 truth's lies, pushing woo, and helping people who hate the USA feel good about themselves, believing some inside job based on BS. Hard to express how stupid OffG is... maybe others can.

oofg - Maybe they are making money off of ads and need paranoid CTers like you and others to visit the site and push fantasy dumbed down for the non-science CT minded woo gang.

Why are you stuck posting fantasy in the CT section here? because you have fantasy, it is not reality, not news, not real, it is fantasy based lies of thermite; fooled by a fake conclusion in a paper which does not prove thermite...
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Old 23rd September 2016, 10:31 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
One thing I don't understand though, why the CD? As far as I know the planes would indeed be enough to make the towers collapse, and you've already got the planes there anyway, so why the CD?

You don't rely on chance for your new-century-agenda-setting event.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 10:36 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You don't rely on chance for your new-century-agenda-setting event.
Except that there is no need for the towers to actually collapse. It would have been an equally good new-century-agenda-setting event if the towers hadn't actually collapsed but just burned a bit after the planes flew in to them. Planting a whole bunch of explosives as well just seems to be taking obvious risks with respect to detection without any appreciable gain.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 11:21 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You don't rely on chance for your new-century-agenda-setting event.
Nah, of course not -- if you're smart, you would rely on the most pointlessly complicated, unnecessarily risky, and ridiculously large Rube Goldberg hoax you can think of, using magic silent explosives.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 11:26 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You don't rely on chance for your new-century-agenda-setting event.
Correct. You place the explosives exactly where major fires will occur. Good plan.

Then you demolish a skyscraper several hours late for no reason whatsoever.

Do you seriously believe the guff you post?
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Old 23rd September 2016, 11:27 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Except that there is no need for the towers to actually collapse. It would have been an equally good new-century-agenda-setting event if the towers hadn't actually collapsed but just burned a bit after the planes flew in to them.

I disagree. Most people would have forgotten the "911" trigger long time ago if they hadn't collapsed.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 11:27 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by boggis the cat View Post
Chris would back that assertion up?

I seem to be doing OK.

That's not down to the strength of my grasp of the various nuances and detail, however -- it's down to the average 'truther' being averse to doing any thinking for themselves.

No, I passed on the invitation that the OffG editors extended.

You're a bit of a wind-bag.

Can you tell the difference between paint chips and residue from nano-thermite?
Yes of course, Chris Mohr has no other choice: Dont you understand what it means that I have all the data to back me up on record? Another truther here, Criteria, has a back-up of all this stuff, and he was in fact the guy that started the whole thing by catching a major boo-boo in Chris's stupid video and bugging Chris with lots of embarrassing questions. We have Chris Mohr the great ISF forum "debunker" on record making a huge fool of himself in PMs and emails, and going as far as writing Richard Gage of AE911Truth emails to beg him for help convincing me to keep this record hush-hush.

I am not wasting any more time on you here; you have turned down the invite to a real debate via emails and the nature of your flatulent comments makes it quite obvious why you cannot accept such a challenge. Good bye!
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Old 23rd September 2016, 11:31 AM   #80
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I'm not interested in elaborating on any of this, btw, especially not with some overly exited fellows I have no recollection of ever engaging with who think they are important enough to make it on my ignore list.

Just like most of the duhbunkie squad I'm - on this topic in this venue - in retirement and mostly cracking free fall jokes.
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