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9th May 2012, 03:58 PM | #441 |
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9th May 2012, 04:11 PM | #442 |
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GIBHOR the Anthropic Principle is a useless and faulty tautology that derives no consistent conclusion or prediction; it's made up and is said to be true only by virtue of people saying it is true, not by demonstrable evidence either scientifically or philosophically even. Even Lee Smolin, the man you cherry picked at a believer in order to reinforce a nonpoint picks at the Anthropic Principle with great disdain and offers instead the fecund universe which is actually just cosmic natural selection, no God intended.
GIBHOR, it's Godless. Get over it. |
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9th May 2012, 04:13 PM | #443 | |||
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Watch this sort 10 minutes speech to get the answer:
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9th May 2012, 04:28 PM | #444 |
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9th May 2012, 04:31 PM | #445 |
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9th May 2012, 05:14 PM | #446 |
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These two statements contradict each other. If it's impossible for anything to have an infinite "past duration", then it's impossible for something to have existed forever.
You must pick one or the other of these things to be true, GIBHOR. Or abandon them both. Or say that either might be true. Or say that you don't know which is true. The only option you can't pick is of them both being true, because they are mutually exclusive. |
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9th May 2012, 05:16 PM | #447 |
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1. Nothing could exist forever, that's just silly.
2. So something had to have created the universe. 3. So this thing called God created the universe. 4. Oh and God obviously existed forever, that's just obvious. 5. All this makes perfect sense. |
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9th May 2012, 05:17 PM | #448 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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9th May 2012, 05:18 PM | #449 |
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No, most of those are post hoc reasoning, did you read Stenger?
Some are just dumb, showing they don't know what the words mean.
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Seriously, this is really dumb
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OH MY LACKING GOD they are all too stupid to read all 402 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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9th May 2012, 05:27 PM | #450 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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9th May 2012, 06:08 PM | #451 |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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9th May 2012, 06:38 PM | #452 |
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WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where you could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!! |
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9th May 2012, 06:53 PM | #453 |
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Just to interject a couple of points:
* We don't even known that "absolutely nothing" is possible, or ever has been. * There is no reason to believe that at any point (ie, "before" our universe) there has been "absolutely nothing". In fact, the question may not even make sense. * The universe may appear fine tuned for us, but we don't even know if the physical constants of reality *can* change (say, for example, in between "serial" universes, or for each universe in a "bubble" model), or if they can, by how much.... or even if some kind of life would be possible with different constants. The hole/puddle analogy holds. Injecting a god into this is unnecessary, and wishful thinking. If Gibhor can't see that, that isnt my problem, it is his. Without evidence the whole idea can be dismissed out of hand. Once again, I find it laughable that someone will take the time to belittle science by typing on their computer which is connected to a world-wide network, and I have little time for ridiculous arguments about sooper-dooper imaginary friends etc. The universe is what it is, and the only real way we have to learn anything real about it at all is the scientific method, which has been confirmed time and time again. |
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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9th May 2012, 07:22 PM | #454 |
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Fine tuned, hahahahahaha.
When 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the universe is empty space and will kill you. Paul |
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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST" Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing |
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9th May 2012, 07:32 PM | #455 |
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Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We ****** up the air, the water, we ****** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?" -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness |
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9th May 2012, 10:20 PM | #456 |
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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9th May 2012, 10:25 PM | #457 |
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9th May 2012, 11:07 PM | #458 |
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GIBHOR, you're aware you've just presented a 'strawman' logical fallacy, aren't you?
Who said anything about 'highly welcome' or 'highest good'? AS I said above, your argument is a 'strawman'. I'd hoped for something a bit more interesting from you. It must be the early morning, but this reminded me of the terrible controversy in the opera world when tuning orchestras to A=442 rather than A=440 became the norm. |
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9th May 2012, 11:24 PM | #459 |
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Let's take a look at two of your recent posts. First, the reason why God must have existed forever, i.e. God is infinite:
And now, your reason why actually infinite entities cannot exist:
Originally Posted by GIBHOR
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9th May 2012, 11:27 PM | #460 |
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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9th May 2012, 11:28 PM | #461 |
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"All is needed (and it is essential to my definitions) is to understand the actuality beyond the description, for example: Nothing is actually" - Doron Shadmi "But this means you actually have nothing." - Realpaladin --- |
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9th May 2012, 11:40 PM | #462 |
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Goodie!
Something deep to talk about at last after months of small talk about mythology.
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9th May 2012, 11:41 PM | #463 |
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9th May 2012, 11:53 PM | #464 |
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9th May 2012, 11:56 PM | #465 |
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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10th May 2012, 12:19 AM | #466 |
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10th May 2012, 12:30 AM | #467 |
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No, only in your mind.
You might have a point if we were surrounded by supernatural things, and confirmed supernatural causes/theories etc. What you are saying is akin to saying that the footprints left in the sand might have been left by a dog, or might have been left by an invisible fire-breathing snogorbit. 50/50. |
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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10th May 2012, 12:53 AM | #468 |
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Nope, it is rather like those buckets of old paintbrushes you keep in the attic. You don't really use them anymore but still need a place to put them. So they kind of accumulate there, because, well, you never really are going to reuse them and keep on buying new ones.
Kind of like that, but then with humans. And a small lump of molten metal with a crust on top of it. |
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"All is needed (and it is essential to my definitions) is to understand the actuality beyond the description, for example: Nothing is actually" - Doron Shadmi "But this means you actually have nothing." - Realpaladin --- |
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10th May 2012, 01:09 AM | #469 |
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10th May 2012, 01:20 AM | #470 |
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It seems to me because some people would rather guess what's happening, instead of relying on what we can determine and suggest based on what we can prove or deduce is probable.
Outside of science, it's all nothing but guessing. And some people seem to celebrate this. I wish people did not entwine the significance of their life with their intuitive guesses. But when you celebrate inaccuracy, you create a system that rewards ignorance. |
10th May 2012, 01:34 AM | #471 |
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It's amazing that it's precisely this inability to realize why it's not a matter of 50/50 that is what drives people like Punshhh and others to continue pursuing these arguments and questions. If they could only understand why it's nothing more than a presupposition in an ocean of nigh infinite presupposition with no compass to indicate what is probable or what is not improbable.
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10th May 2012, 01:38 AM | #472 |
a carbon based life-form
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10th May 2012, 01:44 AM | #473 |
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10th May 2012, 01:56 AM | #474 |
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10th May 2012, 02:04 AM | #475 |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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10th May 2012, 02:07 AM | #476 |
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10th May 2012, 02:39 AM | #477 |
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10th May 2012, 02:47 AM | #478 |
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You appear to be agreeing with me.
Or are you suggesting that the two alternative options, ie (A) a spontaneous natural phenomena or (B) a construction, are only two possibilities out of a nigh infinite number of alternatives? The implication being that the chance of B is nigh infinite to one against. If you are its a flawed argument. True there might well be an infinite number of potential versions of A or B, but all these debates distill down to these two options. As there are only two options on the table, its a 50/50 probability. |
10th May 2012, 02:50 AM | #479 |
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10th May 2012, 03:12 AM | #480 |
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You have a die. It has 100 faces, each of which are as likely as any other to end up face up. 99 of the faces are red. 1 is black. There are therefore 2 options - a red face will be uppermost or a black face will be uppermost.
What are the odds of the die landing in such a way that the black face is uppermost? If what you've said above is true, then it's 50/50. |
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