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6th May 2012, 04:04 PM | #81 |
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6th May 2012, 05:25 PM | #82 |
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6th May 2012, 05:48 PM | #83 |
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I think it came from accretion of rocks and space junk stuff. But the question would probably best be asked of an astronomer. They have the expertise here. Kind of how you'd go to a geologist if you wanted to know something about volcanoes. I'm only going by what little I've read.
Is the question important on other than a curiosity basis? In other words, does the question hold any more force than, "Why does my yard have more dandelions growing on it than my neighbors?" So that's a question you might ask yourself. Why are origins important? Suppose I never find a good answer, how would that uncertainty affect my life? |
6th May 2012, 05:53 PM | #84 |
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Coming into existence makes definitely no sense as that implies some sort of time. We were however talking about the world, of which any sort of time would be a part. The other thing, "has always been" ... hmmm. Let's just say is.
(And please, please, please not this Kalaam trash again.) |
6th May 2012, 05:59 PM | #85 |
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6th May 2012, 06:06 PM | #86 |
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6th May 2012, 06:28 PM | #87 |
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6th May 2012, 07:37 PM | #88 |
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6th May 2012, 07:42 PM | #89 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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6th May 2012, 07:43 PM | #90 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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6th May 2012, 07:45 PM | #91 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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6th May 2012, 09:17 PM | #92 |
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Sorry, that's the one I'm familiar with. I don't yet have much of a handle on the whole universe. I hear it's huge though.
But honestly, why wouldn't he just ask someone who has spent the time learning about this? And why wouldn't he believe them? Those people are probably a bit insulted -- they spend the majority of their adult lives studying this stuff and it just gets hand waved away? For shame. |
6th May 2012, 09:28 PM | #93 |
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6th May 2012, 09:29 PM | #94 |
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In answer to the OP, because everything we've looked at so far can be explained in a naturalistic way. Some, like abiogenesis, even in so many different naturalistic ways we do not know which is the one that actually happened.
I have no idea, nor does anyone else. However, there is no evidence at all that the same thing happened PLUS the spontaneous occurence of an all powerful, supernatural, reasoning and moral being existing outside of everything. Why do you find the second option more logical? |
6th May 2012, 10:33 PM | #95 |
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Quote:
If you mean the universe, the best evidence that I'm aware of is that it cooled form a superhot plasma state approximately 15 billion years ago. It all occurred at every point in the universe, as evidenced by the cosmic background radiation. As for what came before that, we simply do not and, according to my understanding of the current theories, cannot know anything. The distance light has traveled since the Big Bang acts a bit like the event horizon of a black hole, in that it can move but we cannot know what's on the other side. And as AronRa said, asking what happened before the Big Bang is akin to looking for a place south of the south pole--the question is nonsensical, because time started at the Big Bang and you're therefore asking "What happened at a time before time?"
Originally Posted by marplots
Woo peddlers are either frauds or incredibly lazy. And they pretend to be peers of people who devote their time, effort, and their very lives to the study of the universe and this planet. What woo peddlers do is akin to punching the firemen trying to put out the fire consuming your home.
Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth
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6th May 2012, 11:01 PM | #96 |
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/bow Dinwar
I suspect the OP will ignore or handwave it away, but your posts always make me want to look deeper into paleontology. Now if only I could find the time |
6th May 2012, 11:48 PM | #97 |
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7th May 2012, 02:01 AM | #98 |
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Not really, no. No examples. I would be incredibly hard to come by anyway. How would we know about it if it does not interact with the natural world? Still, the possibility can't be ruled out 100%. And, what I find somewhat revealing is, that any boring, uninteresting or just un-woo non-natural things are much more likely than anything woo. And yet, time and again the point is being made that you have to be, uhh, open-minded all kinds of whacky things and ... meh.
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7th May 2012, 03:14 AM | #99 |
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7th May 2012, 03:15 AM | #100 |
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7th May 2012, 03:17 AM | #101 |
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7th May 2012, 03:20 AM | #102 |
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7th May 2012, 03:24 AM | #103 |
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Admitting a lack of knowledge does not imply a lack of curiosity regarding said knowledge.
Positing definitive answers without evidence, or suggesting that "belief" is a suitable alternative is not viable as a methodology. More directly to the point, I don't think you know what "Naturalism" actually is or means. |
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7th May 2012, 03:49 AM | #104 |
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Well, I said "world". That emcompasses anything there is, including of course the universe and, if such things existed, Gods too.
Plus, if I recall correctly, you previously asked about coming into existence. Coming into existence and having a beginning are not necessarily the same either. But, as I previously said, the world just is. And that is that. |
7th May 2012, 04:03 AM | #105 |
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7th May 2012, 04:06 AM | #106 |
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i was actually referring to the universe, but since you answered in regard of the earth, does this theory seem plausible to you ?
Truth being told, that is a very UNlikely scenario : http://creation.com/the-naturalistic...ngly-difficult
Quote:
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7th May 2012, 04:08 AM | #107 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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7th May 2012, 04:10 AM | #108 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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7th May 2012, 04:13 AM | #109 |
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So what if it is a very "UNlikely (sp) scenario" if it is correct? If you come across a dead body in the middle of a field it is very unlikely that the person has been killed by a bolt of lightening, yet that could be the answer. Something being unlikely or not does not effect the actual truth value of that something.
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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7th May 2012, 04:33 AM | #110 |
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Given what I know, what seems most reasonable? Naturalism.
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7th May 2012, 04:36 AM | #111 |
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"The naturalistic formation of planets [SEEMS] exceedingly difficult"
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You will find easily More than sufficient doubt That these colours you see Were picked in advance By some careful hand With an absolute concept of beauty |
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7th May 2012, 04:39 AM | #112 |
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Oh come now, we don't know, its that simple. It may also have come into existence looking as though it was eternal.
If you want to know the speculative physics and the actual physics the answer if the universe looks to be 13.7 billion years old, there are many different speculations as to what it may or may not have come from. If you like the expanding space time bubbles, then this bubble is still 13.7 BYO, we don't know about the rest. |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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7th May 2012, 04:41 AM | #113 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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7th May 2012, 04:46 AM | #114 |
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But we do know that nature exists, to the extent that we can know anything at all. Everyone should "believe in" nature and natural causes. The question is whether there is anything more than that. To which my answer is always "I don't know, do you have any reason to think so?"
If naturalism is the assertion that there is nothing supernatural, then nobody should be a naturalist. Indeed, there are no circumstances under which anybody ever could reasonably be a naturalist. It is and always will be possible that the supernatural exists. I'm happy to believe in the supernatural. Somebody simply needs to give me a reason to do so. Thus far, nobody has. |
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7th May 2012, 04:54 AM | #115 |
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No, as I stated I really don't care. I can barely visualize the number 1,000, like a crowd of 1,000 people or 1,000 pennies.
I can sort of hold my mind on the idea of 1,000 years, but not really. 93,000,000 miles, how big is that? 4.3 light years how big is that? If the sun was grain of sand (.5 mm) the nearest star is like 9 miles or 14 km away. The center of our galaxy is 58,000 mile or 94,000 km away The Andromeda galaxy is ~2.5 megalight years away (2.1 mi./3.3 km = 5,250,000 mi or 7,499.997 km. in scale) and the are more galaxies than we can count and they have 100,000,000,000 stars in each one. I am amazed by the universe as it is, wow. So no, I don't want /need an answer to a question that we can't find right now. |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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7th May 2012, 05:00 AM | #116 |
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7th May 2012, 06:12 AM | #117 |
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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7th May 2012, 06:36 AM | #118 |
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The idea that science is "Happy not knowing" is laughable to the point of being sad.
As Joobz said handwave explanations like God, the Paranormal, the Supernatural, Navel Gazing and other woo aren't answers, they are just slapping a more theatrical label on not knowing. When a Scientist says "I don't know" it means just that, at this point we just don't know. It leaves the door open both in possibility and in desire for us finding the information further down the road. When a Woo Slinger says "Woo did it" it still means they don't know, but it also means they aren't intellectually honest enough to admit it, and since they've invented a copout answer they are no longer looking for the real one. |
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7th May 2012, 06:48 AM | #119 |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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7th May 2012, 06:55 AM | #120 |
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that yes, in some form all that makes up the universe as we know it has always existed.
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