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Old 18th May 2020, 12:33 PM   #41
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Ward, you could post a pic of it on Fecebook. Somebody will be right along to claim the copyright.
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Old 18th May 2020, 12:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
Hey, if it were easy, I wouldn't be asking. Yes, it will be sheer luck. That's why I'm putting it in front of as many eyes as possible. All the detective work about gears and paint media will not matter when someone says, "My dad was a college science professor and I remember this image from a pamphlet on his desk for the 'New Univac Compact Computer---Now Fits In A Smaller Room.'"

Ward
Indeed, I was just musing a bit, and mentioned some of the other things in case they had not occurred to you. I grew up in a family that owned a lot of little bits of stock, and I can recall, for example, how ubiquitous those glossy, technically superb, annual reports there were. Most of that stuff was photographic but there would also be artists' renderings and articles on hot new developments.

Neurobiology textbooks seems like a good lead.
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Old 18th May 2020, 04:26 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Ward, you could post a pic of it on Fecebook. Somebody will be right along to claim the copyright.
I would, but I'm not on FB. I'm counting on people here to spread the word. If someone claims the copyright, then my question would be answered.

Ward
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Old 18th May 2020, 04:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Indeed, I was just musing a bit, and mentioned some of the other things in case they had not occurred to you. I grew up in a family that owned a lot of little bits of stock, and I can recall, for example, how ubiquitous those glossy, technically superb, annual reports there were. Most of that stuff was photographic but there would also be artists' renderings and articles on hot new developments.

Neurobiology textbooks seems like a good lead.
I took your musing as musing, not as criticism.

Thanks,
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Old 18th May 2020, 05:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
Loss Leader, can you point me to the reproductions in galleries?

You may be right that I was just looking at the same piece on different sites. The frames were all the same.
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Old 18th May 2020, 05:36 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
It's a neuron. Google <neuron energetics> for a bazillion hits. Add <mechanism> for a bazillion more. Those will be about how neurons work, how they input, out put, or are controlled.

So, maybe it was the cover of a text book? Or a poster for a pharmaceutical dog & pony show?

50s & 60s was a hay-day of Neuroscience applications. Here is a list of Nobel prizes by year, pick one. https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/nobel.html

Mechanism and Energetics are terms used to describe the way something works in terms of how itís parts interact and the way it uses, transforms and distributes energy. I donít think it only applies to biological science.

Iím convinced itís a gear (for Mechanism) and a plasma ball (for Energetics). The fade from salmon to blue-grey reflects the colors used for each and their interconnection, as someone else pointed out.

Iím pretty sure itís a plasma ball because of the dots in the middle part and how they extend outward in electrical arcs.

Iíd guess itís a standard piece of commercial illustration -the original piece that was used for reproduction. Could have been anything from a textbook, educational poster, promotional material or a simple illustration for a science project.

Itís a nifty bit of ephemera, whatever it is and I congratulate Ward on the find.
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:53 PM   #47
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No progress to report, but in my search, I DID come across these really cool pastels by Roger Hayward, whom I'd never heard of before.

http://scarc.library.oregonstate.edu...stels/pastels/

Ward
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Old 20th May 2020, 10:26 PM   #48
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If you like science related paintings, also check out Walter Murch. Not the film guy but his father. He painted a lot of covers for Scientific American. I saw an exhibition of his stuff many years ago, and I liked it a lot.
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Old 20th May 2020, 10:41 PM   #49
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Yeah, I'm familiar with Murch, but I never saw a piece by him in person. You are fortunate.

Ward
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Old 21st May 2020, 07:38 AM   #50
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Have you ever seen the back of it? Any notes there? At least a date? Maybe a project number?
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Old 21st May 2020, 04:35 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Have you ever seen the back of it? Any notes there? At least a date? Maybe a project number?
You'd think that that's the first thing I would have done. I did not. Here's why.

It's framed really, really well. As I think I mentioned, I think most of the price I paid is for the framing job. It's sealed up pretty tightly. I don't really want to undo that. If I get really desperate, I will. I suspect that if there were any information there, it would have been listed in the sales info. I bought it from the gallery that had it framed, and they claimed they had no other information about it. That seemed somewhat evasive. They must have known something about its origin, like whose estate it came from, but they were not interested in sharing.

Ward
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Old 21st May 2020, 05:30 PM   #52
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I don't think I could stand that. Take it to another professional framer. Open it up. Look at the back, and take pictures. At worst, you'll know no less than you do now and be out a couple hundred bucks.

Also (my cynical side showing here) take a close look to make sure it isn't a reproduction, of which the gallery has been selling multiple copies.
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Old 21st May 2020, 07:20 PM   #53
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I hear you, but I really don't want to be out a couple of hundred bucks for what I suspect is nothing. If there were anything on the back that might have helped sell it, I think it would have been listed. It was for sale for years before I got it at the gallery moving sale for a song. If I start spending a couple of hundred bucks here and there, my bargain will no longer be a bargain.

I've been happily living with the painting for about a year and it just recently occurred to me that the skeptical hive mind might be helpful. So far, we have not answered the central question, but I'm enjoying the tangents.

I'm pretty sure it's the original. You can even see there's a little water damage at the very bottom. It's visible in the photos.

Ward
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Old 22nd May 2020, 06:31 AM   #54
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My own guess is that if the gallery framed it they'd know anything that was on it, because any provenance or explanation might enhance its value. I wouldn't bother to open it up if you're figuring to keep it yourself anyway. Finding out is fun but won't change whether you like it or not. Leave this as a research adventure.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 08:23 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Illustration of that sort would have been about the same for a book cover, a magazine article, or a corporate report. So you could be looking for a long-obsolete textbook, or an annual report from some 1950's biotech company, or an article in a mainstream magazine or a company's house organ or promotional literature. Some of those things used surprisingly good material, and a number of substantial artists supplemented their income with this kind of work.

A lot of those illustrations probably were saved, framed, and kept or given to friends and family, and unless there's a note on the back, few people now will have any idea what they were for.

I'm with bruto.

Some people cannot fathom that a large percentage of movies and television shows (and music) have been lost to time. And not only have some of them been lost, but even a record of them existing has been lost. The internet does not have a record of everything unfortunately.

And that is popular media. Now we're talking about 70 year old textbooks! This is something that was not only context specific, but very possibly produced for one class.

As for the OP specifically. Commissioned work for a long lost textbook. (Or more likely an unchosen piece from of a group of samples to pick from.) Very likely in an English second language country.

I'm also leaning towards 1959 and the Indian Institute of Technology Madras. (I'm basing this on a very thin thread that I'm hoping someone can connect independently.)
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Old 22nd May 2020, 08:30 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
I'm pretty sure it's the original. You can even see there's a little water damage at the very bottom. It's visible in the photos.

Here's a better pic than the one linked to the in OP that most people have probably been viewing.


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Old 22nd May 2020, 08:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Considering the precision of the depiction of the teeth, it's surprising that the "central" part of the hub isn't actually centered. It's offset to the left, and (by eyeball) also appears to be offset toward the point of view.

You might want to get out a ruler and make sure you are not falling for a very common optical illusion.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:26 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
I'm with bruto.

Some people cannot fathom that a large percentage of movies and television shows (and music) have been lost to time. And not only have some of them been lost, but even a record of them existing has been lost. The internet does not have a record of everything unfortunately.

And that is popular media. Now we're talking about 70 year old textbooks! This is something that was not only context specific, but very possibly produced for one class.

As for the OP specifically. Commissioned work for a long lost textbook. (Or more likely an unchosen piece from of a group of samples to pick from.) Very likely in an English second language country.

I'm also leaning towards 1959 and the Indian Institute of Technology Madras. (I'm basing this on a very thin thread that I'm hoping someone can connect independently.)
Hmmmm. I had not even considered that it might be an unchosen piece. That's definitely a possibility. Usually, it seems that an unchosen piece ends up in a pile of other drafts or unfinished or unchosen works. Those usually stay together, at least for a while. This appears to be a sole survivor. There were no other similar works at this gallery. Still, it's a possibility that it was made, but never used for publication.

And....

Hmmmm, again. I cannot connect your very thin thread independently, nor can I even find your thread. The IITM was founded in '59 and it seems they were using some textbooks written by German Physicist, Robert Pohl. Point us to your thread and maybe we can work it into the tapestry we are weaving here.

Thanks,
Ward
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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:41 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
You might want to get out a ruler and make sure you are not falling for a very common optical illusion.
And it's a painting, not a photograph!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:07 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And it's a painting, not a photograph!
True, but as noted the depiction of the gear teeth is so precise that imprecision elsewhere would be unlikely. The sides of the gear demonstrate that it's seen from directly head-on, while lit from slightly to the left. I'd suggest there's a good case for its being based on a photograph.

But as it happens, if you measure the gear as pictured above, the center hole is quite on center anyway. The prominent crank hole puts it off balance so it appears skewed, but it isn't.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:19 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And it's a painting, not a photograph!
Exactly.

There is an unusual thing about this work if it is an artwork for an illustration or a book cover. Usually, most of the artwork I have seen does not include words.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 06:48 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Exactly.

There is an unusual thing about this work if it is an artwork for an illustration or a book cover. Usually, most of the artwork I have seen does not include words.
I suspect that if the artist knew the title he might have included it in the design, but there's a lot of dead space on the bottom which could have contained other writing that was printed.
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:21 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I suspect that if the artist knew the title he might have included it in the design, but there's a lot of dead space on the bottom which could have contained other writing that was printed.
True. I think for example, the Harry Potter books had at least the title integrated with the artwork.
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Old 24th May 2020, 01:17 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
True. I think for example, the Harry Potter books had at least the title integrated with the artwork.
Yes, it's unusual, but not unheard of, to have graphics integrated with the illustration art.

I don't think this is cover art for a textbook. I think if it were and the title was mechanism-energetics, it would be findable with a library mcat search---even if it were an obscure title.

I think it's more likely a chapter heading, or one of the many other suggestions offered in this thread. Makes it harder to find.

Ward
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Old 24th May 2020, 01:27 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
Hmmmm, again. I cannot connect your very thin thread independently, nor can I even find your thread. The IITM was founded in '59 and it seems they were using some textbooks written by German Physicist, Robert Pohl. Point us to your thread and maybe we can work it into the tapestry we are weaving here.

Don't worry I will. My first inclination though is entirely based upon my guess that it is going to be a textbook from an English second language university. Which would make me lean towards a handful of schools, that being one of them. Also, this whole 50s idea is just everyone's best guess is it not? That painting could be from as late as 1970 AFAIK. My thin thread is only a very semi related Google result to a page that has since been replaced and Google didn't seem to cache.

If you google mechanism-energetics in quotes AND textbook in quotes one of the top results is this link:

www.coursehero.com/file/p3mc8q5/Mechanism-Energetics-Understanding-and-working-with-microbial-catalysts/

The google results preview is this:

Quote:
Mechanism Energetics Understanding and working with microbial catalysts from BIOLOGY BIOCHEM 25 at Indian Institute of Technology, Chennai.

Unfortunately that link to that book has since been made a referral link to this book:

www.coursehero.com/file/25675421/1-Introduction-to-Biochemical-Engineeringpptx/

I cannot find the original page in Google's cache nor can I find it on the Wayback Machine.

But we do know that IITM had a book titled thusly:

"Mechanism Energetics - Understanding and Working with Microbial Catalysts"

It is only possibly your book, but it would be nice to find a picture of the cover of that book just the same.

The only evidence of its existence on the internet has since been deleted.



Somewhat off topic. Anytime you have a picture from a textbook that is either odd or unique, it is quite likely foreign.

The most hilariously famous example being this 1990s Serbian biology book:

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Old 24th May 2020, 01:32 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
I don't think this is cover art for a textbook. I think if it were and the title was mechanism-energetics, it would be findable with a library mcat search---even if it were an obscure title.

Please refer to my earlier analogy about TV and film. If people knew how easily things are lost to time they would be shocked.

Also, not every University in every country would have participated in standard cataloging.

And on top of that, and most importantly, I found a book with that title.
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Old 24th May 2020, 03:59 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Don't worry I will. My first inclination though is entirely based upon my guess that it is going to be a textbook from an English second language university. Which would make me lean towards a handful of schools, that being one of them. Also, this whole 50s idea is just everyone's best guess is it not? That painting could be from as late as 1970 AFAIK. My thin thread is only a very semi related Google result to a page that has since been replaced and Google didn't seem to cache.

If you google mechanism-energetics in quotes AND textbook in quotes one of the top results is this link:

www.coursehero.com/file/p3mc8q5/Mechanism-Energetics-Understanding-and-working-with-microbial-catalysts/

The google results preview is this:




Unfortunately that link to that book has since been made a referral link to this book:

www.coursehero.com/file/25675421/1-Introduction-to-Biochemical-Engineeringpptx/

I cannot find the original page in Google's cache nor can I find it on the Wayback Machine.

But we do know that IITM had a book titled thusly:

"Mechanism Energetics - Understanding and Working with Microbial Catalysts"

It is only possibly your book, but it would be nice to find a picture of the cover of that book just the same.

The only evidence of its existence on the internet has since been deleted.



Somewhat off topic. Anytime you have a picture from a textbook that is either odd or unique, it is quite likely foreign.

The most hilariously famous example being this 1990s Serbian biology book:

https://i.postimg.cc/BXQtHSrH/A-ZRF3e-CMAEl-Y5.jpg
That's a classic!
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Old 24th May 2020, 04:34 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
I cannot find the original page in Google's cache nor can I find it on the Wayback Machine.

But we do know that IITM had a book titled thusly:

"Mechanism Energetics - Understanding and Working with Microbial Catalysts"
That isn't a book title. I think this link will work for the cached webpage:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=us

It is on a page from a course description. One of the pages has an illustration with a central circle labeled "Biochemical Engineering" that points to three circles labeled "Biochemistry", "Microbiology", and "Chemical Engineering". Next to the the circle for Biochemistry it lists "Pathways", "Mechanism", and "Energetics". Next to the the circle for Microbiology it says "Understanding and working with microbial catalysts".

The search result showing "Mechanism Energetics Understanding and working with microbial catalysts" is just because of the way those things are laid out in the HTML for the webpage.
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Old 24th May 2020, 04:53 PM   #69
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Ahhh! Thank you, DevilsAdvocate. I was just about to write to the central library at IITM. It seemed odd that they would not have a recently used textbook in their collection.

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Old 24th May 2020, 04:55 PM   #70
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And This Is The End, it's doubly weird that they are on that Serbian textbook because that baby isn't even theirs.

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Old 24th May 2020, 05:21 PM   #71
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I'm going to guess that the paining is on watercolor paper. The reason for that guess is because the painting is listed as 18X22. Illustration board is usually 18X24. But watercolor paper is usually 22X30. So I'm guessing the reason for the 22 is that that artist down it off from a full sheet of watercolor paper.
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Old 24th May 2020, 05:51 PM   #72
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It seems to be on board It could be paper laid on board. but I don't think so.

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Old 26th May 2020, 12:43 PM   #73
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My two kcals worth

Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
Yes. Energetics and mechanism (certainly) are words that a biochemist studying enzymes or an organic chemist studying reaction mechanisms would use. Doesn't have much to do with an eccentric gear though.
I was thinking along similar lines. Energetics (thermodynamics) tells what will happen but not now it happens or how quickly it happens. Mechanisms of enzymes (the study of which draws at times from organic chemistry) tell us how enzymes speed up slow but thermodynamically favorable processes. I have to admit, though, that the illustration of the neuron (if that is what it is) is hard to connect with what I wrote above.
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Old 26th May 2020, 01:19 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
I was thinking along similar lines. Energetics (thermodynamics) tells what will happen but not now it happens or how quickly it happens. Mechanisms of enzymes (the study of which draws at times from organic chemistry) tell us how enzymes speed up slow but thermodynamically favorable processes. I have to admit, though, that the illustration of the neuron (if that is what it is) is hard to connect with what I wrote above.
Now I don't even think it is a neuron. As another poster pointed out it looks more like a plasma ball. I wonder if the OP asked the gallery what the basis of their description was?
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Old 26th May 2020, 02:07 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
Now I don't even think it is a neuron. As another poster pointed out it looks more like a plasma ball. I wonder if the OP asked the gallery what the basis of their description was?
I confess I did not ask. I assume the gallery owner just googled "mechanism-energetics" and extrapolated from there. She clearly liked the piece enough to give it the framing job that she did. When the pandemic eases, I can visit her at her new gallery and try to pry more info from her, but I don't know if she has more to give.

Ward

Edited to add: I don't want to make it seem like I asked nothing. I tried to find out what I could about its provenance from her, but she seemed to have no information.
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Old 26th May 2020, 02:50 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
I confess I did not ask. I assume the gallery owner just googled "mechanism-energetics" and extrapolated from there. She clearly liked the piece enough to give it the framing job that she did. When the pandemic eases, I can visit her at her new gallery and try to pry more info from her, but I don't know if she has more to give.

Ward

Edited to add: I don't want to make it seem like I asked nothing. I tried to find out what I could about its provenance from her, but she seemed to have no information.
That's a big extrapolation.
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Old 26th May 2020, 02:54 PM   #77
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It IS a big extrapolation, but she was not very forthcoming about anything concerning the piece. I suspect she got it for next to nothing at an estate sale somewhere, knew nothing about it and tried to justify the mark-up by pointing out how nicely she framed it. And she did nicely frame it. She was clearly proud of it, but seemed to have no further information about it.

Ward
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