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5th August 2014, 06:26 PM | #361 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I initially ignored this thread because the title sounded just like another complaining woo ("If you don't listen to me, this Forum will have no future!!!!1!!" and I was rather unfamiliar with the thread starter. Then it went all Sticky.
I've been here almost 13 years. I would like to see it continue. |
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5th August 2014, 06:54 PM | #362 |
Penultimate Amazing
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5th August 2014, 07:09 PM | #363 |
Illuminator
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I just realized how ironic it is that I just got home on Saturday from flying across the entire country to hang out with some friends I met on this very forum.
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5th August 2014, 07:22 PM | #364 |
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Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We ****** up the air, the water, we ****** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?" -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness |
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5th August 2014, 07:24 PM | #365 |
Guest
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I will say all the drama here today made traffic in my chat room absolutely skyrocket.
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5th August 2014, 07:27 PM | #366 |
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Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We ****** up the air, the water, we ****** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?" -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness |
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5th August 2014, 07:30 PM | #367 |
Tagger
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JeffWagg> hcmom, you can feel that way if you want, but you're quite innocent. Curnir> Hcmom. taking reality into a wholly new direction |
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5th August 2014, 07:32 PM | #368 |
Intellectual Gladiator
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Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We ****** up the air, the water, we ****** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?" -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness |
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5th August 2014, 07:34 PM | #369 |
a carbon based life-form
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So long, it's been good to know you,
So long, it's been good to know you, So long, it's been good to know you. What a long time since I've been home, And I've gotta be driftin' along. http://lyrics.wikia.com/Pete_Seeger:...Dusty_Old_Dust) |
5th August 2014, 07:38 PM | #370 |
ETcorngods survivor
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5th August 2014, 07:55 PM | #371 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,765
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...is this some sort of a joke thread?
The place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a lively way is being handed over to a guy who defends Amway and thinks terrorists flew the missing Malaysia Flight out to East Turkmenistan to use as a bomb? And he got the gig because he happened to notice a relatively obscure thread in a section of the forums that I don't even think I've visited before, where the previous thread was created last month? During a time when many posters couldn't log into the site? And the administrator of the forum didn't even know this was coming? I've got two words in my head. Unprofessional and Trainwreck. To the Admins and the Moderators: I've disagreed with you as often as I've agreed with you, but you guys have my respects. Sorry this got dumped on you like this: you all deserve much better. I've never been "part of the community." Despite having been here longer than most other posters on these boards I still get "welcomed" by people who signed up in 2012. I'm just another poster. I joined because these were the Randi boards. The culture here is pretty unique, and that culture was set not just by the participants, but by the way the boards were moderated and run. I'm sure the boards will continue in some fashion. And I wish the person taking over the ship all the best. But right now, the administrators and the moderators who have tirelessly kept this place running for well over a decade have been treated like trash. And I can't be a part of that, so I'm out. There are plenty of other places on the internet I hang out: I'll go hang out there. I may check out the new forums, but I doubt it. All the best, and thanks for all the fish. |
5th August 2014, 07:56 PM | #372 |
Groovy Groovy Guru
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Well, after two days of not being able to sign in, getting new passwords assigned to me, then being told that THEY were invalid("How could they possibly be invalid, you boobies,-you just gave them to me!!"), I do the obvious thing and switch to IE...and I'm back in.
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The sun is out, the birds are singing and all is right with the world. I loooove my meds! |
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5th August 2014, 07:58 PM | #373 |
a carbon based life-form
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5th August 2014, 08:13 PM | #374 |
Penultimate Amazing
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oops, double post
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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5th August 2014, 08:19 PM | #375 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I, for one, would be happy to pay a subscription for access to this forum. Another forum I am a member of (its a sports forum) two levels of membership. 1. Free Admission; - free subscription - advertising - limited size of avatars (<250 pixels) - text only signatures. 2. Season Ticket Holder: - paid subscription (£12 p.a.) - allowed animated gif images - larger sized images for avatars (<500 pixels) - advertising free - allowed non-commercial images in signatures - allowed non-commercial links in signatures - Season Ticket Holder section of forum. When a Season Ticket Hold forgets to pay their annual subscription, they just revert back to Casual Admission (stuff doesn't disappear from signatures its just not visible on the forum until they pay up) |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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5th August 2014, 08:46 PM | #376 |
Philosopher
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5th August 2014, 08:53 PM | #377 |
Unbanned zombie poster
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Excellent news, though the question that bears on my mind now ain't that kind of server, but the ones that serve papers (and sorry to hit you with such negative waves so early next morning). As in current or future litigation. Mentioned yourself before (as to funding) and by Wolfman in his cross post above. Undoubtedly a mitigating factor in the expedited dispatch of the forum from any association with the JREF. Being in business yourself I'd expect you are no stranger to some types of litigation. Though a discussion forum brings up some other legal issues one might not normally deal with in business. Certainly incorporation and such non-profit indemnifications can help but we are litigious society. Not to be a wet blanket or anything and your post directly referring to outstanding litigation indicates that you are thinking about it. I'm just wondering how you are factoring in that cost. Heck, that's not to say that I'm not a "take it it comes" kind of guy and I'll probably ride this pony as long as it lasts (even if it takes ponying up some myself), but I don't want to see you, me or anyone get trampled for that ride.
Additionally, though not having any direct knowledge, I surmise that it is the attack the argument not the arguer aspect of this forum that might actually reduce potential defamation litigation. So keeping the current mod team (if willing, by them) and moderation structure (in general) can only help. ETA: As long as that ponying up doesn't require me to E-mail my bank information to Nigeria. |
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BRAINZZZZZZZZ |
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5th August 2014, 09:18 PM | #378 |
Tagger
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JeffWagg> hcmom, you can feel that way if you want, but you're quite innocent. Curnir> Hcmom. taking reality into a wholly new direction |
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5th August 2014, 09:31 PM | #379 |
Philosopher
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Posts: 5,292
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Jeff was the manager of the JREF for years and years. When he was part of the JREF, he was extremely active on the forum, and in fact is the person behind much of what you see here. And the reason he hasn't been in yet is because he's part of the group of users that, because of the forum issues, cannot log in. He has been, and still is, trying.
Of all the people who could have this responsibility, Jeff, Darat, and Lisa (the people who have been a part of it the longest and know the users the best) are the best possible options, and in this scenario all three of them would be around. |
5th August 2014, 09:34 PM | #380 |
Illuminator
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Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,110
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Whew, after some fancy tricks, I've managed to log on.
Thanks for the votes of confidence, but I'm still weighing what's going on here. I'm going to talk with icerat offline to see where we're at. Give me some time to see if I'm the right person to do this, and then evaluate what needs to be done and the best way to do it. I'm a bit shocked by all this. As the forum is unstable, if anyone needs to communicate with me, jeff@wagg.com should work. |
5th August 2014, 09:40 PM | #381 |
Penultimate Amazing
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As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities. - Voltaire. |
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5th August 2014, 09:47 PM | #382 |
Master Poster
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Posts: 2,655
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I built the computer I'm using in 2009 so not much after this one.
Quote:
Quote:
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The problem with this system is that it is the wrong kind. These processors are still based on Intel's old Front Side Bus technology which connects the processors via a shared bus to the northbridge. The northbridge has four separate memory channels going out to the four FB-DIMM banks. Each bank can handle six separate FB-DIMMs and each one can be 1, 2, 4, or 8 GB. This would allow for 192 GBs of memory. These FB-DIMMs are probably 533 Mhz (although they could be 667). The northbridge could transfer 17 GBs of data per second to and from memory. The FSB is clocked at 1066 Mhz (technically 266 quad pumped). This FSB can move 8.5 GBs per second or half of what the memory controller can handle. However, since these are actually twin package chips, the FSB sees them as eight separate processors. If each of these processors wanted to access memory the demand is 8x greater than the FSB can handle. This configuration works pretty well if you have floating point intensive operations and you want a large model to be held in memory. This might happen with a large CAD, engineering, or graphic file. Unfortunately, this system does nothing like that. It does not make use of Tigerton's excellent floating point crunching capability at all but instead is memory intensive where the FSB is a massive log-jam. To be honest, three of those four processors in this configuration are doing nothing most of the time since they are mostly waiting on memory. As some have pointed out, two separate systems each with one processor would actually have been faster as well as cheaper. It's very unfortunate because clearly someone was trying to set up a robust system and ended up with something inadequate even though it was not a cheap system. Someone mentioned memory. Adding memory to this system would not help since the FSB is the problem.
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It was a good motherboard for a particular task. Although it's not being used, the drive controller can do RAID 1, 5, and 10. It's a shame that it was so far off for this particular application. |
5th August 2014, 09:48 PM | #383 |
Chief Solipsistic
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Dan,
Jeff worked for the JREF for years, and was the last person to serve as official forum liaison; and in that role, he did a really great job, demonstrating an even hand and fair perspective. To me, that proven performance is a major issue. I've seen how Jeff runs a forum; I haven't seen how icerat does it. In regards to Jeff's lack of recent participation in the forums, that is due in part to the fact that after leaving the JREF, he started his own business (which takes a significant amount of his time)...and, at least by my perceptions, because when he left the JREF, he did so because of conflict with the leadership there (which could also have an impact on his desire to be involved with the forums). Being in charge of these forums isn't just an issue of "who is here the most often" or "who is willing/able to deal with technical issues". Much more important, in my mind, is someone who will maintain the forums in a manner that sustains the overall 'flavor' and environment that we have become used to. I'm very, very confident that Jeff can do that (because the forum as it is was significantly influenced by Jeff's previous involvement); while I greatly appreciate icerat's technical experience and willingness to help out, I haven't seen anything to indicate how he would run the forums...he's never even been on the mod team to see how things are run. Choice A: someone who's previously been in charge of the forums, and done a good job Choice B: a guy who seems quite nice, and certainly committed to preserving the forums, but with no track record to speak of in terms of actually running the forums. |
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5th August 2014, 09:52 PM | #384 |
Chief Solipsistic
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How about the fact that Lisa is one of the main proponents of having Jeff do this?
Also, I can't help but note the irony of the fact that a guy who's got only 68 posts is lecturing us about involvement in the forums. Jeff made huge contributions to this forum...as I said above, much of what we value about this forum is because of the work he did here during his time with the JREF. I'd suggest that, since you're so concerned about involvement, you look at the fact that the vast majority of people who are supporting Jeff for this role are people who've been involved for years, and have demonstrated significant loyalty to these forums. I'd think that should speak volumes. |
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5th August 2014, 09:52 PM | #385 |
Unbanned zombie poster
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BRAINZZZZZZZZ |
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5th August 2014, 09:54 PM | #386 |
Girl
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5th August 2014, 09:58 PM | #387 |
Girl
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5th August 2014, 10:00 PM | #388 |
Master Poster
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I would have to second this. I've tried having technical discussions in blogs, on Facebook, on Youtube, and in Yahoo Groups. And, I can say without any hesitation that not one of these is adequate. They are fine for trivial things like pictures of your vacation or whatever but they don't work for anything technical.
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5th August 2014, 10:17 PM | #389 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 162
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Digital Dan,
Jeff has earned the trust of many, many forum members over the years both here and in real life. The fact that he's been less active recently does nothing to reduce his capacity to manage a forum, nor reduce my nor (I suspect) most other people's trust in him. No one is suggesting anyone be left out, the folks here are just trying to sort out a variety of possible structures the present/future mods and admins will work with, not exclude anyone specifically. If icerat can host, and jeff or lisa or darat manage the privacy things...we already know those people, and trust them with those tasks, and would be comfortable continuing in their stewardship. Yes, my post count is low, but I lurk a lot and know many of these fine folks in real life as well. It would do you well to learn from them the history behind their statements rather than just challenge or confront them. You probably mean well, but it comes across as naive due to your newness and lack of information. If you take the time to get to know them, and Jeff--should he accept the challenge--I suspect you will come to trust them as well. |
5th August 2014, 10:18 PM | #390 |
Master Poster
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5th August 2014, 10:20 PM | #391 |
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
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5th August 2014, 10:22 PM | #392 |
Chief Solipsistic
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@Digital Dan:
I'm sorry, but while I understand that from your perspective Jeff may be an unknown quantity, quite frankly, you are new here, and know very little of the forum's history, or the people involved in it. Not only does Jeff have a long history with the forum, and not only has he demonstrated his ability to run the forum in a manner that we like, but he is someone that many of us know personally. Some have met him at TAM, others on the various cruises he organizes, others in just general social circumstances. He's a known and trusted entity. You seem to be getting upset on behalf of people like Lisa who've put so much time into these forums...yet ignoring the fact that many of those same people who've put so much time into the forums support the idea of having Jeff take charge. I appreciate hugely the work that icerat's doing to help out in this situation; but that doesn't change that fact that we pretty much know almost nothing about him. He's never been involved with the running of this forum, at any level. I certainly hope that, whoever eventually takes over, icerat will be part of the team involved in the transition (and I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate that anyone expects otherwise). There are legitimate questions as to whether, if Jeff took over the forums, they'd be a part of his current business, or set up as a separate entity...personally, I'd prefer the latter option. But as to the issue of who should take over, there are really few people with better proven credentials than Jeff. |
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5th August 2014, 10:24 PM | #393 |
Master Poster
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5th August 2014, 10:32 PM | #394 |
Unbanned zombie poster
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I don't think anyone here has disputed Icerat's technical expertise and Icerat has even not disputed Jeff as a viable administrator. Certainly creating a separate entity (non-profit or otherwise) from their own businesses, probably goes without saying. For reasons I mentioned before. Heck, if you're on Facebook then you've already given your personal information to a business model that's just geared to sell you crap (advertising) or failing that sell whatever information (other than that specific personal stuff) they can get from you. Even if they have to try to manipulate you (called "research" in the user agreement) to get it. Take your own chances and choices, but Jeff and Icerat, I think I can work with that. |
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5th August 2014, 11:01 PM | #395 |
In the Peanut Gallery
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The forum without JREF is doomed in my opinion. Very sad.
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5th August 2014, 11:05 PM | #396 |
Chief Solipsistic
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That may be...there are certainly significant hurdles to overcome. The transition, regardless of how it's done or who takes over, will inevitably mean the loss of some members. And it's going to be more difficult to attract new members.
But I'd rather make the effort and fail, than simply give up now. |
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5th August 2014, 11:31 PM | #397 |
Master Poster
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I think the forum is the main educational resource of the JREF. This thread has moved too swiftly for me to read all of it, but last night I saw somewhere in here someone saying (Icerat?) that even though the JREF doesn't want to be burdened with officiating the forum, they would still promote it on the JREF website, so a mutual linkage would still be there back and forth for members of the forum to visit the JREF, and for people checking out JREF to easily link to the forum. In which case, I can't see how that would look different to the current arrangement. Only behind the scenes changes. No problem! |
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5th August 2014, 11:49 PM | #398 |
Penultimate Amazing
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5th August 2014, 11:51 PM | #399 |
Observer of Phenomena
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So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
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6th August 2014, 12:24 AM | #400 |
Philosopher
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Posts: 5,292
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Oh, I can see where it came from. It's because when I posted about handing the forum over, I pointed out that it's against privacy laws (and the contractual obligations in the privacy policy penned by JREF) to do that. However, that's not on my behalf. I was staff at the JREF. My name is all over these forums, and I don't have anonymity here anyway. My issue is that thousands of people signed up here believing that the privacy policy was true. It isn't about whether the information is sold to a company for advertising purposes, either. People have put sensitive information about their atheism or gender identity or whatever else on this forum with the understanding that they could remain anonymous and vent their problems without it carrying over into their real lives. And this isn't hyperbole. People have posted that they believe they will be disowned, fired, divorced, etc if they tell the people in their lives their real views.
If the JREF actually DOES wipe that information if people don't opt into the switch, great. But there has been no clear answer on whether or not that is going to happen. And, you know, I'd think that an organization with a leader who felt the need to keep his sexual orientation private for the majority of his life would understand that when you tell a secret to people you trust, it isn't cool for those people to turn around and say, "Oh, well, we're just going to pass that secret along to someone we've known for five seconds because we saw their LinkedIn." I don't know icerat, and I'm sure that this PROBABLY IS fine - but then I have nothing to lose. And this thread is tucked away pretty damn well. The vast majority of people with accounts haven't even seen it. No - I don't think it's right to hand it over and not give those people the choice about whether or not to trust a third party who just happens to be the first person to volunteer with their information. |
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