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1st September 2014, 01:56 PM | #1 |
Thinker
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LA JREF office closes, D.J. Grothe no longer with the JREF
I was very surprised to hear this. Not sure what to make of it all...
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...ce-closed.html |
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1st September 2014, 02:05 PM | #2 |
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Just read that on Facebook. I note this page has been updated. Only James Randi is on it. http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/staff.html. The financial position must be pretty bad if Randi is the only staff member. There used to be five names on that list. That is apart from Sharon Hill who is still not mentioned on the page I linked.
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1st September 2014, 02:17 PM | #3 |
New Blood
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Do not like.
DJ has done an incredible job. He really made TAM a great event, actively including diverse speakers and injecting fresh new programming. This news makes me worry about his work being undone. And I was already a little worried about Savage being added to the board—only for his friendship with Skepchicks and seeming obliviousness to the problematic/poisonous SJW faction of skepticism. Will Skepchicks return to TAM, now? Hopefully not. But I imagine they and FTB are already writing their celebratory drama blog posts... |
1st September 2014, 02:48 PM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Wow! I hope the last person out of the foundation remembers to turn the lights off.
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1st September 2014, 02:52 PM | #5 |
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1st September 2014, 02:53 PM | #6 |
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1st September 2014, 03:07 PM | #7 |
New Blood
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I hope this is good news. I would like nothing more than to resume my admiration of James Randi that DJ Grothe destroyed so completely. Maybe attending a TAM again might be kind of fun, too! I missed both.
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1st September 2014, 03:24 PM | #8 |
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1st September 2014, 03:28 PM | #9 |
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Hmmm. I hope this is for the better. Not much else I can say for now.
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1st September 2014, 04:39 PM | #10 |
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1st September 2014, 04:56 PM | #11 |
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If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer |
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1st September 2014, 06:15 PM | #12 |
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1st September 2014, 06:20 PM | #13 |
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Nice article on Randi published yesterday in the Miami Herald, and featured on JREF home page. I wonder why the lengthy piece by Glenn Garvin contains no mention of the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF).
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/08/3...VNNfU0.twitter |
1st September 2014, 06:21 PM | #14 |
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I hope everything is okay, and the JREF continues on in a great way.
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Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! |
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1st September 2014, 07:40 PM | #15 |
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Here's my prediction on TAM: the JREF will make a deal with Michael Schermer. Schermer will organize TAM next year "for" the JREF and take half of any money raised for the Skeptics Society. Eventually it will be a joint event and when the inevitable happens with The Amazing One TAM will become a 100% Skeptics Society event.
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1st September 2014, 07:43 PM | #16 |
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No.
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Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! |
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1st September 2014, 07:51 PM | #17 |
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Certainly, I hope the best for the JREF...but it really seems that things are going downhill. Staff changes have been too frequent, which will severely disrupt long-term planning and organization. And I think that some recent policies, as well as reactions of senior members of the JREF to certain situations, have served to damage the organization's reputation, and isolate it somewhat from other individuals and organizations within the skeptical community.
I'm speaking as an outsider, and am not privy to everything that's going on there...but certainly, at least from the outside perspective, things seem to have been on a rather consistent downward trend. |
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1st September 2014, 07:52 PM | #18 |
One Damn Dirty Ape
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And what does it say that in almost six hours there have only been 17 and (now 18)
posts on what is maybe the most important JREF related post in years? The lack of interest is palpable. |
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1st September 2014, 07:57 PM | #19 |
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1st September 2014, 08:01 PM | #20 |
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1st September 2014, 08:12 PM | #21 |
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1st September 2014, 08:12 PM | #22 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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1st September 2014, 08:21 PM | #23 |
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If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer |
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1st September 2014, 08:26 PM | #24 |
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1st September 2014, 08:35 PM | #25 |
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1st September 2014, 08:37 PM | #26 |
Penultimate Amazing
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My source was the The Amaz!ng Meeting article at Wikipedia. They cite:
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticle...mazing_meeting Not correct? ETA: And the horses mouth: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...sor-tam8-.html |
1st September 2014, 08:42 PM | #27 |
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1st September 2014, 08:47 PM | #28 |
Penultimate Amazing
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These are the JREF's (publicly available) federal tax forms for the last three years. Could someone with some tax and accounting experience assess what they say about the state of the JREF's finances? It looks like it holds assets in the neighborhood of $2 million (not a bad neighborhood for a small non-profit), takes in revenue of more than $1 million a year (spending most of it), and has few liabilities.
http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990...201312_990.pdf http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990...201212_990.pdf http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990...201112_990.pdf http://990finder.foundationcenter.or...y=&action=Find |
1st September 2014, 08:48 PM | #29 |
Penultimate Amazing
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From talking to various people involved, I was led to believe that the Skeptic Society was a little more than a "sponsor". Although I (or the people who told me that) could be mistaken.
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If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer |
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1st September 2014, 08:48 PM | #30 |
Penultimate Amazing
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OK. Is that an important distinction? Seems to me that providing money, promotion and speakers is pretty close to joint. If the distinction is that JREF had final say in the program, then I wouldn't think that's too relevant to how current changes might affect the near future of TAM. Seems to me those two other organizations have enough inside knowledge of TAM to be capable of taking it over or bigger role, even if they aren't currently "joint", whatever that means.
I should point out that I don't necessarily see TAM falling apart due to any changes. The latest TAMs don't seem to be falling apart (not that I've gotten to see them firsthand). |
1st September 2014, 09:04 PM | #31 |
Philosopher
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Well, again, I don't know if the JREF has something special going on with them (though really, they don't appear to from the TAM site), but I do work in the trade show/expo/conference industry still, and sponsoring (at its most basic level) just means paying to have your logo on something. Like pens that are given out in gift bags. Or on the tote bags themselves. Anyone who is exhibiting can sponsor, and it doesn't indicate a special relationship other than you paid the organization money to slap your logo on something.
Speaking at an event doesn't really indicate a special relationship, either. "Providing speakers" is the wrong term. People WANT to speak at events. And when/if they do, of course they'll promote the event too. Like... let's see, who all was it... I think it was just me and Jeff and Randi all presented at DragonCon for a couple of years. The JREF wasn't "providing" speakers. We all wanted to speak at DragonCon, and filled out applications, and were approved through their process. If the JREF had sponsored DragonCon, it would've just meant cutting them a check to have a banner hanging somewhere or whatever. |
1st September 2014, 09:28 PM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I don't know if you saw my edit with the post from the Swift log. That post described the situation as TAM being sponsored by the three main US Skeptic organizations with JREF being one of them. Made it sound like they were on somewhat equal footing. But I see the original announcement in the Swift log, issue by JREF staff, described the two other organizations, not the JREF, as being sponsors. I suppose the later Swift post was a misinterpretation.
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1st September 2014, 09:54 PM | #33 |
Penultimate Amazing
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So is it now obvious that the JREF is in dire straits and is looking to get rid of the Forum as soon as possible?
TAM is either a going concern in its own right, or it isn't. It's obvious the MDC served its purpose decades ago. Keeping $1mm in a bespoke account just to debunk VFF? Really? The Challenge has long since outlived its purpose. The Forum never really had a purpose; or if it did, that purpose died in infancy. |
1st September 2014, 10:02 PM | #34 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Not sure I've seen any evidence that has to be interpreted as "dire straits". Financials are posted a few posts back and they don't sound bad to me.
Getting rid of the forum could be just getting rid of a nuisance. And despite the talk about who could take TAM over there is, as yet, no reason to think it is to be taken over. That's speculation at this point. |
1st September 2014, 10:31 PM | #35 |
Philosopher
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I'm pretty sure the only reason there was an office in LA at all was because that's where DJ is. "Closing the office" just follows from him leaving. So... Yeah, I don't think it necessarily indicates the JREF is disappearing.
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1st September 2014, 10:32 PM | #36 |
Philosopher
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1st September 2014, 11:26 PM | #37 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
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Oh, the costs were going to be minimal, as we've seen. They just saved ten or twelve fold that on DJ's salary. The forums were a nuisance, like a prehensile tail would be to someone who wears button down suits all day. They just couldn't see the utility of the damned thing or what use to put it to. If I found that I was growing a prehensile tail, one option would be to have it surgically removed. The other might be to ask a spider monkey for a few tips.
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1st September 2014, 11:46 PM | #38 |
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While not privy to any inside information, there's been enough rumblings for it not to be a complete surprise that DJ and the JREF have parted company. What is surprising is the wording of the announcement. Not a word of thanks for the years of service from the outgoing President? How classless can you get?
Quote:
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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1st September 2014, 11:51 PM | #39 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
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2nd September 2014, 12:50 AM | #40 |
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