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Old 19th January 2019, 07:45 AM   #3241
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Is like but is not:

This parable means that you have a chance to convert up to the last hour but you have to do it now because you never know the last hour could be now as the fool virgins found out.
The parable tells us that it isn't too late for Gaetan to repent for wishing to end civilization and wishing people to die of barbarity. And that money is good and godly.

Turn away from your satanic ways, Gaetan. You don't have to be the anti-Christ.
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Old 19th January 2019, 07:51 AM   #3242
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Error, what you said is satanic, always protect stranger first and last you and your family because the devil will take you and your family, from a medium who know these things, me.
Again, threatening people with things you simply believe in is not effective. Portraying yourself as some kind of knowledgeable authority, "medium" or otherwise, is even less so and simply demonstrates your lack of both knowledge and authority.
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Old 19th January 2019, 07:55 AM   #3243
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Yeah, I've raised the limited resources problem before but it just get ignored. I had hoped he would have at least addressed the infrastructure you need to audit who is taking and who is giving. And then figure out who gets to enforce his rules. At best, we all become chattel. That is why I would switch my job to highwayman. Better hours.
Yep, joining a raiding party or crew is certainly an option for me. I know plenty of people who will be doing just that as it is the most effective use of their skill sets.
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Old 19th January 2019, 09:04 AM   #3244
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Gaetan, my family and I currently "produce food", as pastimes (gardening, fishing, hunting ect). Even committing to that full time it is questionable that we would be able to produce enough to survive comfortably, just for ourselves. Throw others into that mix in competition for game, space and resources and confrontations are inevitable.
This is where you get people to "work" for "free" on land that was also "free"

Also, once everything is "free" your crops will just produce more, for reasons unexplained.
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Old 19th January 2019, 09:09 AM   #3245
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Yep, joining a raiding party or crew is certainly an option for me. I know plenty of people who will be doing just that as it is the most effective use of their skill sets.
Outstanding. Welcome to the compound. We are a small, growing concern. The rules are simple, anything outside the walls are "free" but stuff inside belongs to whomever claimed it first, or dragged it into the compound, minus a small tax paid to your friendly, neighborhood warlord.
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Old 19th January 2019, 09:28 AM   #3246
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Outstanding. Welcome to the compound. We are a small, growing concern. The rules are simple, anything outside the walls are "free" but stuff inside belongs to whomever claimed it first, or dragged it into the compound, minus a small tax paid to your friendly, neighborhood warlord.

Ah, the old 'claimers' rules. I'll have to practice up on my 'dibs' timing, it's been a few decades. Coincidentally, my nephew has recently taken up forging, particularly weapons. Sent him a couple of books on steel in general and Damascus steel in particular for christmas. One of my first raiding destinations would be any local library. Information will be one of the new currencies in 'free world'. While diverse, my current reference library is still rather meager.
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Old 19th January 2019, 10:15 AM   #3247
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In the world of no money people in countries will have the choice to grow and hunt for their own food, build their own house with the wood they cut, make their own clothes with cotton they grow, their won't be luxury like satellite TV or cellular phone, cars, as people cannot achieve that by themself.

Or

Share together and have everything they need by doing some work every day. What do you think would be a smart and logical decision people will take? Work for their own benefit as it would in the first situation or share together?
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Old 19th January 2019, 10:18 AM   #3248
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
In the world of no money people in countries will have the choice to grow and hunt for their own food, build their own house with the wood they cut, make their own clothes with cotton they grow, their won't be luxury like satellite TV or cellular phone, cars, as people cannot achieve that by themself.

Or

Share together and have everything they need by doing some work every day. What do you think would be a smart and logical decision people will take? Work for their own benefit as it would in the first situation or share together?
That's what people do now. How would your fantasy be different?
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Old 19th January 2019, 10:18 AM   #3249
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The smart and logical decision is work for money.
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Old 19th January 2019, 10:35 AM   #3250
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
In the world of no money people in countries will have the choice to grow and hunt for their own food, build their own house with the wood they cut, make their own clothes with cotton they grow, their won't be luxury like satellite TV or cellular phone, cars, as people cannot achieve that by themself.

Or

Share together and have everything they need by doing some work every day. What do you think would be a smart and logical decision people will take? Work for their own benefit as it would in the first situation or share together?
I would rather work for money. That gives me the ability to work harder and smarter than others so my family have have some luxuries and family vacations. I don't want to be some generic shmoe who's a clone of the rest of society.
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Old 19th January 2019, 11:22 AM   #3251
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Ah, the old 'claimers' rules. I'll have to practice up on my 'dibs' timing, it's been a few decades.
Well, if we are going to roll back civilization, the old rules will come in handy.

Quote:
Coincidentally, my nephew has recently taken up forging, particularly weapons. Sent him a couple of books on steel in general and Damascus steel in particular for christmas. One of my first raiding destinations would be any local library. Information will be one of the new currencies in 'free world'. While diverse, my current reference library is still rather meager.
Get the addresses of some local woodworkers and metal-smiths too. Might need some people who could be motivated to "work" for "free" and have some skills in those arts.

I could read all the books in the world about woodworking, but I'm not a craftsman. I really don't have it in me. It's why I have to pay for it. But if that is no longer an option, I'll just take it since it's "free".
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Old 19th January 2019, 11:32 AM   #3252
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
The smart and logical decision is work for money.
No because work for money only work for the 1%
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Old 19th January 2019, 11:34 AM   #3253
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
No because work for money only work for the 1%
Since you continually claim to speak for your god and your words are easily and repeatedly show to be false, what type of prophet does that make you?
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Old 19th January 2019, 11:42 AM   #3254
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Why do I get the feeling that Gaetan envisions himself at the top of the heap in his nutty scenario?
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Old 19th January 2019, 12:39 PM   #3255
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Well, if we are going to roll back civilization, the old rules will come in handy.



Get the addresses of some local woodworkers and metal-smiths too. Might need some people who could be motivated to "work" for "free" and have some skills in those arts.
Now that you mention it I haven't heard from one of my friends for some time. An excellent woodworking craftsman.


Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I could read all the books in the world about woodworking, but I'm not a craftsman. I really don't have it in me. It's why I have to pay for it. But if that is no longer an option, I'll just take it since it's "free".
Fortunately or unfortunately I've always been a DIYer. Growing up, books were how I learned stuff. That combined with 30 odd years of applied experience designing, building and fixing stuff makes it second nature to me. While I certainly wouldn't put myself in the same 'craftsman' class as some of my friends with more dedicated experience in certain areas, particularly aesthetically and artistically wise, I get things done now mostly by reading up on it first.
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Old 19th January 2019, 12:53 PM   #3256
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
In the world of no money people in countries will have the choice to grow and hunt for their own food, build their own house with the wood they cut, make their own clothes with cotton they grow, their won't be luxury like satellite TV or cellular phone, cars, as people cannot achieve that by themself.

Or

Share together and have everything they need by doing some work every day. What do you think would be a smart and logical decision people will take? Work for their own benefit as it would in the first situation or share together?

Aren't you arguing that such second situation of "Share together and have everything they need by doing some work every day." is also "for their own benefit"?

If not, then they are just slaves to others, not gaining any, or little, benefit from their own labors. If so, then both cases are just people working for their own benefit, the later simply including more people. Which again just puts a greater strain on resources.



Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
No because work for money only work for the 1%
As RoboTimbo notes above that is patently false. "work for money" works for far more than just "1%". Otherwise people other than "only" that 1% simply could not survive by doing such.
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Old 19th January 2019, 01:04 PM   #3257
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Money was put on place for the purpose of serving the 1% by kings and dictators that system is nothing good for the 99%.
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Old 19th January 2019, 01:16 PM   #3258
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Money was put on place for the purpose of serving the 1% by kings and dictators that system is nothing good for the 99%.

Simple nonsense, if "that system is nothing good for the 99%" they wouldn't be doing it. They would be serving the interest of themselves and their families elsewhere, like hunting and gathering.
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Old 19th January 2019, 01:17 PM   #3259
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No, it wasn't. And yes, it is.

0/2.
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Old 19th January 2019, 01:55 PM   #3260
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Money was put on place for the purpose of serving the 1% by kings and dictators that system is nothing good for the 99%.
Nope. Did you have anything sensible to say?
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Old 19th January 2019, 04:48 PM   #3261
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
No because work for money only work for the 1%
The problem is not money. The problem comes when people don't have enough money. A lot of people in prison are there because they didn't have enough money. You don't see too many people who are rich in prison for stealing.

Most people have enough money to make a living, etc.
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Old 19th January 2019, 08:28 PM   #3262
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
The problem is not money. The problem comes when people don't have enough money. A lot of people in prison are there because they didn't have enough money. You don't see too many people who are rich in prison for stealing.

Most people have enough money to make a living, etc.
The reason because poor don't have enough is because rich have too much.
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Old 19th January 2019, 08:31 PM   #3263
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The reason because poor don't have enough is because rich have too much.
No, that's incorrect. Do you have anything that makes sense?
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Old 19th January 2019, 11:58 PM   #3264
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The reason because poor don't have enough is because rich have too much.
Gaetan, you are dead wrong. Bill Gates is a multi billionaire. But if you work an extra job and get more money, or if you won the lottery, or if your long lost unles left you a million dollars, has no effect on Bill Gates.

In fact, Bill Gates success has resulted in many others making a long on money and becoming millionaires.

The rich having money is often beneficial to others.
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Old 20th January 2019, 09:01 AM   #3265
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
No, that's incorrect. Do you have anything that makes sense?
Money are at the disposition of rich in banks, poor or the middle class don't have it. Money spend by people is picked up by market keepers put in elastic and in banks for rich to use i told you that already.
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Old 20th January 2019, 09:04 AM   #3266
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Money are at the disposition of rich in banks, poor or the middle class don't have it. Money spend by people is picked up by market keepers put in elastic and in banks for rich to use i told you that already.
I told you that you were wrong already. Do you have anything to contribute that isn't the result of insane religion?
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Old 20th January 2019, 10:48 AM   #3267
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The reason because poor don't have enough is because rich have too much.
Money has nothing to do with, even if true. It's not, for what that is worth. Even in the feudal days, those who owned land (and other people) had more resources with or without money. Resources existed before money. What money does is allow people to trade in a more granular method. I don't have to find someone who needs a metric ton of tomatoes to get a cow. I can sell those tomatoes to thousands of individuals to use my resources to get the beef.
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Old 20th January 2019, 03:04 PM   #3268
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Gaetan, you keep dancing around the inevitable consequences of your proposed system of governance, i.e. it requires slavery. You would gladly FORCE people to do jobs YOU assigned to them.
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Old 20th January 2019, 05:39 PM   #3269
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
You would gladly FORCE people to do jobs YOU assigned to them.
There in lies his fatal problem. Clearly, he lacks the will to enforce his will upon others, so it's more likely he is the one being forced than doing the forcing. He will either need those he detests to enforce his will, people who will not follow someone so weak, or accept his role plowing fields on a good day.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:30 AM   #3270
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Money are at the disposition of rich in banks, poor or the middle class don't have it. Money spend by people is picked up by market keepers put in elastic and in banks for rich to use i told you that already.
You believe in fairytales and imaginary friends.

No one has any reason to believe anything you post.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 01:15 AM   #3271
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In the actual system you are forced to work because you'll become very hungry, not in the no money world because everything is free of charge.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:47 AM   #3272
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
In the actual system you are forced to work because you'll become very hungry, not in the no money world because everything is free of charge.
In your no-money system, nobody will have to work?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:06 AM   #3273
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
In the actual system you are forced to work because you'll become very hungry, not in the no money world because everything is free of charge.
But to get stuff for "free" you have to work, or do you not remember the conditions you've created for this fantasy? Either way, you are "forced" to work, the major difference is that in a money system, you do have some choice in who you work for and how much you work. In your chattel slavery system, that option is removed.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 10:21 AM   #3274
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
In the actual system you are forced to work because you'll become very hungry, not in the no money world because everything is free of charge.
Gaetan, are you confused or making up stuff as you go along?

You said people must work in your no money world. If nobody worked, who will produce food and who will clean my toilets?

Everything will be "free" as you claim but there won'y be much since all the companies that produce material goods and restaurants for example, will close because they are for profit companies. These companies won't exist in a no money world.

Your wild chickens and vegetables will be "free" but you'll have to compete with other people to get them. And you'll have to defend yourself from people with weapons who want your stuff,
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:54 PM   #3275
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Everything will be "free" as you claim but there won'y be much since all the companies that produce material goods and restaurants for example, will close because they are for profit companies. These companies won't exist in a no money world.
They will exist for the benefit to satisfy the need of people.

Quote:
Your wild chickens and vegetables will be "free" but you'll have to compete with other people to get them. And you'll have to defend yourself from people with weapons who want your stuff,
There will be more food than now because the production won't be stopped by the need of money as it is in the actual system. The surplus will be distributed to desert countries or others countries that are in penuries.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 07:32 PM   #3276
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
They will exist for the benefit to satisfy the need of people.



There will be more food than now because the production won't be stopped by the need of money as it is in the actual system. The surplus will be distributed to desert countries or others countries that are in penuries.
You said nobody would have to work since everything would be free. Were you wrong?
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Old 24th January 2019, 09:06 AM   #3277
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
You said nobody would have to work since everything would be free. Were you wrong?
You see what money do, the guys like Obama and Trump and others rich who ruin the Venezuela want to take over in Venezuela for stealing the people over there, we have to put an end to money.
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Old 24th January 2019, 09:14 AM   #3278
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You see what money do, the guys like Obama and Trump and others rich who ruin the Venezuela want to take over in Venezuela for stealing the people over there, we have to put an end to money.
That didn't answer the question. Answer the question.
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Old 24th January 2019, 09:20 AM   #3279
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
That didn't answer the question. Answer the question.
You see what money do. Obama, Trump, Bush and other rich business man criminals from Venezuela ruin this country and now they want to take over from the socialist government to steal the ressources and people over there.
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Old 24th January 2019, 09:44 AM   #3280
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Steal resources and not steal money.

Interesting. Almost as if you understand that money isn't the problem. As if you understand that resources have value.

Now answer the question.
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