Continuation Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Darat

EU sabotage.

Just outsmarted by the inferior foreigners then!

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Just outsmarted by the inferior foreigners then!

With help of those traitorous remoaners...

[The Don]

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Just outsmarted by the inferior foreigners then!

It's not sporting to enter a battle of with an unarmed opponent

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Klimax

With help of those traitorous remoaners...

They want the "Australia" deal to bring in the kangaroos for the courts we'll have to face.

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

They want the "Australia" deal to bring in the kangaroos for the courts we'll have to face.

Soon there will be hordes of kangaroos roaming British countryside. (Something about too low fence or hole in it...)

[a_unique_person]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Boris has now announced that he’s going to put a stop to rough sleeping. He’ll be rounding them all up and sending them off to pick fruit and veg.

The last thing employers want is a while lot of people with mental health problems being forced on them.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Klimax

Soon there will be hordes of kangaroos roaming British countryside. (Something about too low fence or hole in it...)

Too late, they're already here:

Quote:

Documented colonies of red-necked wallabies exist in the United Kingdom. In Staffordshire, a breeding colony established itself after breaking loose from a private zoo in Leek, Staffordshire in the 1930s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phanto...United_Kingdom

[Lothian]

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

The last thing employers want is a while lot of people with mental health problems being forced on them.

It is ok if the private sector don't want them Cummings said he wanted to replace the civil service with them. Fresks, wierdos, misfits.
Because we all know that trusting HS2 to 'spice monster' Dave and 'baseball bat' Tommy is the way to go.

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by The Don

Too late, they're already here:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phanto...United_Kingdom

So you are already set for all those courts.

[Lothian]

Michael Gove spends £1bn a year of our brexit windfall on useless bureaucrats.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Lothian

Michael Gove spends £1bn a year of our brexit windfall on useless bureaucrats.

Yup, but this is good Blue Tape to go with Blue Passports, nothing like that nasty Red Tape and Red passports.

Almost as if leaving a trading bloc that has been aiming to reduce internal trade barriers for 60 years and then trying to trade with it is a recipe for extra bureaucratic barriers.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Lothian

Michael Gove spends £1bn a year of our brexit windfall on useless bureaucrats.

No worry they can just use some of the magic software they have lying around or in pinch outsource it to Carillion Interserve Capita.

[Captain_Swoop]

The Mail has seen leaked emails by a 'senior government adviser' who says agriculture and fishery production isn't critically important to the UK economy.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

The Mail has seen leaked emails by a 'senior government adviser' who says agriculture and fishery production isn't critically important to the UK economy.

As a percentage of GDP, that's true.

Given how little of the UK's catch is eaten in the UK then the fishing industry is not currently critical to UK food supplies. Of course if imports of the fish we do eat start to dry up then that's a different matter.

IMO it's a different situation w.r.t. farming.

[Mr Fied]

Originally Posted by Lothian

It is ok if the private sector don't want them Cummings said he wanted to replace the civil service with them. Fresks, wierdos, misfits.
Because we all know that trusting HS2 to 'spice monster' Dave and 'baseball bat' Tommy is the way to go.

Now I know you're on a wind up.

How can they be put in charge of HS2?

They're still working on crossrail.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Lothian

As mentioned previously.it is too simplistic to label Ceptimus as just pro brexit. He is very anti unelected bureaucrats. He will be livid about the current Government's approach to sideline ministers and pass the power to Boris's henchman who has puppeteer's hand up the chancellor's arse deciding which industry deserves Government support.

He hasn't shown any such repugnance.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by abaddon

While removing the domestic food supply. That will be fun. Chlorinated chicken and hormonal beef forever.

And, as an added bonus, the elderly and poor are most likely to be killed off by USAian levels of food poisoning.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by jimbob

meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/Joe_Mayes/status...597163008?s=19



The more I see of Cummings, the more I think he must have read too much science fiction at an impressionable age.

His behaviour is rather typical of one strand of the neo-reactionaries: anti-democracy, libertarian, deluded about technology shading towards transhumanism st cetera.
Basically overgrown manchildren with a crippling lack of self-awareness.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by The Don

I'm only familiar with hobbyist 3D printers which are very slow. Can industrial ones churn out the thousands of components an hour our manufacturers require ?

Not without vast numbers of fabrication units, with the commensurate investment of capital, skilled labour and space.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by The Don

The 3D printer thing is like the whole border thing. Relying on technology whose effectiveness is overestimated and/or whose existence is largely imaginary.

Whether they genuinely believe what they're saying or just hoping people will simply believe them isn't clear to me.

I suspect some, like Cummings, are Randesquely deluded and pull the others (the stupid, the apathetic, the desperate) along with them.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by The Don

As a percentage of GDP, that's true.

Given how little of the UK's catch is eaten in the UK then the fishing industry is not currently critical to UK food supplies. Of course if imports of the fish we do eat start to dry up then that's a different matter.

IMO it's a different situation w.r.t. farming.

Well given how the Tories have been neglecting flood defenses, ignoring climate change and studiously forgetting the Pitt Review, I suspect that farming may be less important in the UK in a few years.

Remember '53...

[KDLarsen]

Two sets of trade talks beginning today, and the UK government has already shown its ineptitude, by confirming that the proposed trade deal with the US will only result in a 7.5% increase in trade and a 0.2% boost to the GDP - compared to the loss of between 4.9% and 7.6% of GDP as a result of the upcoming loss of access to the EU market...

[Lothian]

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Two sets of trade talks beginning today, and the UK government has already shown its ineptitude, by confirming that the proposed trade deal with the US will only result in a 7.5% increase in trade and a 0.2% boost to the GDP - compared to the loss of between 4.9% and 7.6% of GDP as a result of the upcoming loss of access to the EU market...

Do you have a source? I may tweesnapface this.

[KDLarsen]

Originally Posted by Lothian

Do you have a source? I may tweesnapface this.

From Jonathan Portes, a former government economist and professor of economics:

https://twitter.com/jdportes/status/1234253114682880001

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Lothian

Do you have a source? I may tweesnapface this.

Tweet:

https://twitter.com/jdportes?ref_src...fits-live-news

Report referred to in Tweet

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/l...tent=immediate

[Darat]

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Two sets of trade talks beginning today, and the UK government has already shown its ineptitude, by confirming that the proposed trade deal with the US will only result in a 7.5% increase in trade and a 0.2% boost to the GDP - compared to the loss of between 4.9% and 7.6% of GDP as a result of the upcoming loss of access to the EU market...

But that will be true blue UK boost to the UK economy so it feels much better!

[The Don]

Post-Brexit cheerleading from the BBC regarding the impact of the UK/US trade deal. The headline:

Quote:

Post-Brexit US trade deal: 0.16% economic boost predicted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51706802

From the story:

Quote:

It says an agreement would increase the UK's gross domestic product (GDP) by between 0.07% and 0.16%, depending on the exact terms of the deal.

The BBC is quoting the most optimistic figure as if it was guaranteed.

What makes very interesting reading is:

Quote:

However, it said a US deal would lead to a long-term 0.5% reduction in the output of the financial services sector, with resources "reallocated" to other areas.

I suppose those out of work investment bankers will be picking cabbages in Lincolnshire

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by catsmate

Originally Posted by jimbob

meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/Joe_Mayes/status...597163008?s=19



The more I see of Cummings, the more I think he must have read too much science fiction at an impressionable age.

His behaviour is rather typical of one strand of the neo-reactionaries: anti-democracy, libertarian, deluded about technology shading towards transhumanism st cetera.
Basically overgrown manchildren with a crippling lack of self-awareness.

Yup. The transhumanism is one that I recognise from the sort of books I was thinking of, but hadn't made the explicit connection myself.

Originally Posted by catsmate

Not without vast numbers of fabrication units, with the commensurate investment of capital, skilled labour and space.

Even then. At the moment, I believe there are a few universtiy-level demos of inkjet printing of organic transistors and maybe even very small scale integrated circuits. Nothing like the 7nm-gate process that is state of the art for silicon integrated circuits. So you still need to import any silicon* chips for any intelligence of any 3D-printed product. I'm assuming that if you are talking about high tech manufacturing, you are probably going to want to have some type of intelligence in the product somewhere.

Not only that, but again, unless you want it to be completely passive, you are probably going to want to put motors and you will also want to interface with some power supply, and maybe have sufficient outputs to control those motors.

All these will need components that can't be 3D printed in the medium-term if ever. So you still have the same problem that you rely on lots of incoming components.

Even if you are making something that can be entirely 3D printed with equipment that's commercially available today, you still need the start materials, which, if you are going to sell to any large customer, will need paperwork to check compliance with standards. Also, if you managed to make it profitable, you'd be vulnerable to copycat 3D printers. Especially if you were selling outside the UK and there's not an agreement to protect IP.

Apart from that, I also guess that there's the problem that if you are selling to someone outside the UK, then *they* still want a stable supply, so unpredictable customs delays would put you at a huge competitive disadvantage compared to competitors in trading blocs with functioning customs agreements.

-----------
Saying this, I can easily see how someone who is far too in love with their own self-perceived ability and with the idea of a small band of technological "wizards" creating an anarcho-capitalist future would go for th epossibility of 3D printing.

I can also see how a proponent of such ideas might impress someone like Johnson.





And this is one of the stories I was thinking of - quite unpleasant characters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Fealty_(novel)

Originally Posted by The Don

Post-Brexit cheerleading from the BBC regarding the impact of the UK/US trade deal. The headline:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51706802

From the story:



The BBC is quoting the most optimistic figure as if it was guaranteed.

What makes very interesting reading is:



I suppose those out of work investment bankers will be picking cabbages in Lincolnshire

Yup - I noticed that too

*unless you have really specialised requirements, where other materials might be better.

[The Don]

In case anyone thinks that those who voted for Brexit will see their incomes rise:

Quote:

The Treasury Select Committee asks Bank of England policy makers what the impact of moving to a UK points-based immigration system will be on wage growth.

"Immigration doesn't really have an impact on wages," says Silvana Tenreyo, a member of the Bank's monetary policy committee.

She sites various studies, one of which found that immigration had a slight positive effect on the wages of natives.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/busi...ost_type=share

Indeed, things could get a little worse:

Quote:

But the points-based system will have an effect on overall GDP and size of economy.

Policy maker Michael Saunders says that some firms find they can't fill their jobs, and for them "the future is difficult". Some firms move to greater automation, which has a payoff in higher productivity, he adds.

Voting for "British jobs for British people"may very well result in "British jobs for foreign made robots"

[lomiller]

Originally Posted by catsmate

I suspect some, like Cummings, are Randesquely deluded and pull the others (the stupid, the apathetic, the desperate) along with them.

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by lomiller

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

Exactly.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by jimbob

Yup. The transhumanism is one that I recognise from the sort of books I was thinking of, but hadn't made the explicit connection myself.

I see it more than occasionally, working in the higher echelons of the tech sector such nonsensical techno-libertarian fantasies are more common than elsewhere.

Originally Posted by jimbob

Saying this, I can easily see how someone who is far too in love with their own self-perceived ability and with the idea of a small band of technological "wizards" creating an anarcho-capitalist future would go for th epossibility of 3D printing.

I can also see how a proponent of such ideas might impress someone like Johnson.

It's usually quite easy to blind the averagely intelligent, uninformed and out of their depth with technical nonsense.
Desperation and short attention span helps too.

Originally Posted by jimbob;13007621
And this is one of the stories I was thinking of - quite unpleasant characters.

[url

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Fealty_(novel[/url])

I remember giving up in disgust at that neo-Randian wish-fufillment fantasy of Pournelles.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by lomiller

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

Exactly. Such techno-libertarian "Great Man" fantasies appeal to a certain type of emotionally immature mind.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by lomiller

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

Going off on one, but googling some of the books I was thinking seem to have influenced Cummings - I came across the Prometheus Award

Quote:

The Prometheus Award is an award for libertarian science fiction novels given annually by the Libertarian Futurist Society.

A lot of the books on the list are ones I was thinking of as having influenced Cummings, given his statements.

[The Don]

Maybe there won't be £350m a week for the NHS, £4bn was squandered on Brexit preparations.

Quote:

Government departments spent more than £4bn on preparations for leaving the EU, says the public spending watchdog.

The National Audit Office said this figure included spending on staff, external advice and advertising.

A Treasury spokesperson said the government had made "all necessary funds available" to ensure the country was prepared for leaving the EU.

But the Lib Dems claimed "billions of pounds have been thrown away in a bid to paper over the Tories' Brexit mess".

The NAO stressed in its report that it was not making a judgement on whether the spending represented value for money.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51762243

[Darat]

Planigale posted this in the general Corona virus thread thought my comment would be more appropriate here.

Originally Posted by Planigale

...snip..

Next year nearly everyone will still be here. But the health service will be severely disrupted over summer and will need a massive catch up for all the back log when the staff are exhausted from the epidemic.

Obviously our NHS isnt fit for purpose, what better time to introduce some new "partners" to help out our ailing NHSs .....

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Darat

Planigale posted this in the general Corona virus thread thought my comment would be more appropriate here.



Obviously our NHS isnt fit for purpose, what better time to introduce some new "partners" to help out our ailing NHSs .....

And when we're 'subsidising' private health companies with more than the current NHS budget and making private payments on top we'll have no shortage of people telling us how important it is we don't go back to that horrible old NHS....

[Captain_Swoop]

Health Sec has already said that after the crisis the NHS will need to be 'reconfigured'

[Tolls]

Got to take advantage of these things...every cloud and all that.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Health Sec has already said that after the crisis the NHS will need to be 'reconfigured'

And the ScotSec wants to connect Scotland and Norn Iron by tunnel rather than bridge.