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Tags Mandela effect , memory

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Old 14th March 2018, 11:41 AM   #161
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Old 14th March 2018, 11:48 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
NoTM

That's not a current scientific theory or law.

That's not even current scientific hypothesis.

At least, not in the way you're interpreting it.

The current many-universes idea isn't about quantum events, but about the effects of the inflation period after the big bang. And in that, the universes are separate from each other and, by definition, can have no interaction. It's something that, by it's very nature, can't even be tested.
Quantum Phenomena Modeled by Interactions between Many Classical Worlds

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The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is not even a theory or hypothesis at all, but an interpretation...akin to a thought experiment, and isn't generally accepted except among those who aren't in the field.
They're all interpretations. The leading one is the Copenhagen Interpretation. MWI usually polls around second place, depending on the poll.

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In QM, if the math doesn't show it, it's not part of the theory. None of the math shows a many-worlds interpretation on the macro level like you've suggested. Even on the micro level, it's suppositional, not proven by any means.

In any case, you're going past actual QM, through an interpretation, on to an opinion based on that. At best you're two steps removed from any testable, provable science.

It's leprechauns.
I don't think you know much about QM.

Last edited by Fudbucker; 14th March 2018 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 14th March 2018, 11:52 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Seriously though, isn't it more likely that people are conflating "Them!" with "They Live"? Or any number of other moves who's title end in "!"
Mant!
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Old 14th March 2018, 11:55 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Evidence?....
Cosmic ray energy cutoff.
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Old 14th March 2018, 11:57 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Veliki George View Post
OK, it's just approximation based on comments on reddit, some forums and videos. But funny thing is there is a band called They Live Exclamation Point. I wonder how they got their name.
Online comments are going to be hopelessly biased however. People are of course much more likely to comment online about the topic if their memory is faulty and they think the movie was called "They Live!" (or were prompted into thinking so by seeing an online discussion and other comments about it).

Most people who have never heard of the movie or who correctly remember the movie's name are unaware of these discussions, or don't bother getting involved in such inanity, so trying to conclude how many people really have false memories of movie names based upon a Reddit discussion is an exercise in futility at best, and at worst is going to give you a ridiculously skewed number.
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Old 14th March 2018, 12:02 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Yes. A model, but no test can show that that particular way of modeling represents reality. Map is not territory.

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And this type of parallel universe is NOT the same thing you're talking about with merging universes or QI. Categorically different.

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They're all interpretations. The leading one is the Copenhagen Interpretation. MWI usually polls around second place, depending on the poll.
And the interpretation has **** all to do with any actual predictions of QM. When an actual scientist works with QM, they make their calculations and predictions base don the math; whatever interpretation they prefer doesn't enter into it, whether Copenhagen, many-worlds, or anything else. Those aren't theories or hypothesis. QM is the actual theory, and it's interpretation-independent. It'll give the same answers whatever interpretation you like, as long as you do the math correctly.

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I don't think you know much about QM.
Of course you don't

And you're right; I'm no expert. But I do know enough about it to recognize nonsense claims. Just because I can see New York on a map doesn't mean it's made of paper and ink.

Last edited by Hellbound; 14th March 2018 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 14th March 2018, 12:03 PM   #167
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Me, I remember the Stormtroopers chasing Han and Chewbacca through the Death Star in Episode 4. The head Stormtrooper (Phil) at one point yelled "Close the blast doors!" and they closed, but Han and Chewbacca made it through. Then Phil franically yelled, "Open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!" but too late, and all the Stormtroopers piled into the barrier. Then the lowest-ranking Stormtrooper, Medford, then asked, "Didn't this happen in a Bugs Bunny cartoon?"

Oh, and I remember Han shot Greedo before Greedo drew his weapon, but I saw the movie again recently, and I was wrong both times.

I tell you, those Star Trek movies mess with your mind, man.

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Old 14th March 2018, 12:06 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What's your theory?

Faulty memory?
Convergent evolution?
Parallel universes?
Something else?
I don't really have an explanation. I'm skeptic and I do not believe in anything paranormal. I'm not an expert in physics and I do not know anything about the theory of parallel universes, but I was told that it is impossible just to jump from one universe to another. It does not make any sense that the result is a change in the name of some of the products, movies and other pop cultural stuff.
I would like to believe that this is just a false memory, but so many people remember the movie with an exclamation mark. I can not understand why we all make exactly the same mistake. Where did that exclamation come from?
I've never seen Them! nor other old horror movies.

Last edited by Veliki George; 14th March 2018 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 14th March 2018, 12:09 PM   #169
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Kinda sounds like a paranormal explanation to me. I guess we'll just have to let this thread run its course, to find out.
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Old 14th March 2018, 12:20 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Kinda sounds like a paranormal explanation to me. I guess we'll just have to let this thread run its course, to find out.
What about it is paranormal? We're not talking about ghosts. We're reasonably sure other universes exist and somewhat sure they're causally disconnected from us, but stuff like quantum immortality isn't paranormal, it's just weird. The Many Worlds Interpretation of QM is very weird, but not paranormal in the least. If all these branching universes exist, who's to say we don't occasionally slip in and out of them?
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Old 14th March 2018, 12:28 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
What about it is paranormal? We're not talking about ghosts. We're reasonably sure other universes exist and somewhat sure they're causally disconnected from us, but stuff like quantum immortality isn't paranormal, it's just weird. The Many Worlds Interpretation of QM is very weird, but not paranormal in the least. If all these branching universes exist, who's to say we don't occasionally slip in and out of them?
Looks like you found the paranormal explanation all by yourself--complete with woo argumentation techinique.

Show me evidence that inter-universe travel happens on a macro scale, and I'll happily agree that branching universes is actually a normal hypothesis.
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Old 14th March 2018, 12:30 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Veliki George View Post
I can not understand why we all make exactly the same mistake.
How many of the people on Reddit or elsewhere who 'remember' an exclamation in the movie 'They Live' actually misremember it that way, and how many only 'remembered' an exclamation point in the movie name after reading about how others misremembered the same exclamation mark?

I think a large part of the supposed phenomena can be explained by it being simply a self-perpetuating online echo chamber filled with credulous woo slingers.

People with no memories, or vague memories, of whether or not Nelson Mandela was alive, or whether or not there's an exclamation mark in a movie name, etc. are simply being prompted into thinking they remember something they don't really remember at all via these online discussions and those of a credulous bent are coming to all sorts of daft conclusions about it and piling on to the discussion, making it seem like there's something to it to more and more people who read about it.

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Where did that exclamation come from?
What was the sequence of events that made you think you'd remembered the name wrong?

Last edited by JesseCuster; 14th March 2018 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 14th March 2018, 12:32 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Looks like you found the paranormal explanation all by yourself--complete with woo argumentation techinique.

Show me evidence that inter-universe travel happens on a macro scale, and I'll happily agree that branching universes is actually a normal hypothesis.
Seriously?
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Old 14th March 2018, 12:52 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Seriously, but I hit Submit without bothering to complete the thought. I meant that I would accept it as a non-paranormal hypothesis for why people misremember events.

And I love that your "seriously" link is to an interpretation of quantum mechanics. Not an observation, merely a Just So Story to explain why quantum mechanics are so counter-intuitive in macro-scale terms. There's no evidence that many worlds exist. Let alone that people "slip into them" long enough to remember the death of Nelson Mandela, or the `!` at the end of `They Live`. You're taking a narrative intended to help scientists make sense of a somewhat nonsensical physics regime, and trying to turn it into a valid explanation for a macro-level effect with absolutely zero evidence.

Last edited by theprestige; 14th March 2018 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 14th March 2018, 12:57 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
How many of the people on Reddit or elsewhere who 'remember' an exclamation in the movie 'They Live' actually misremember it that way, and how many only 'remembered' an exclamation point in the movie name after reading about how others misremembered the same exclamation mark?

I think a large part of the supposed phenomena can be explained by it being simply a self-perpetuating online echo chamber filled with credulous woo slingers.

People with no memories, or vague memories, of whether or not Nelson Mandela was alive, or whether or not there's an exclamation mark in a movie name, etc. are simply being prompted into thinking they remember something they don't really remember at all via these online discussions and those of a credulous bent are coming to all sorts of daft conclusions about it and piling on to the discussion, making it seem like there's something to it to more and more people who read about it.

What was the sequence of events that made you think you'd remembered the name wrong?
To be honest, I've seen it in a video from some guy called MoneyBags73 who makes ME videos. When I saw it with an exclamation point, I thought that must be it. Then I checked reddit and some other videos and I learned that many others have a similar problem. I consider other ME examples ridiculous, like dilemna because it is dilemma or dilema in every indoeuropean language. But this one is strange.
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Old 14th March 2018, 01:12 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Seriously, but I hit Submit without bothering to complete the thought. I meant that I would accept it as a non-paranormal hypothesis for why people misremember events.

And I love that your "seriously" link is to an interpretation of quantum mechanics. Not an observation, merely a Just So Story to explain why quantum mechanics are so counter-intuitive in macro-scale terms. There's no evidence that many worlds exist. Let alone that people "slip into them" long enough to remember the death of Nelson Mandela, or the `!` at the end of `They Live`. You're taking a narrative intended to help scientists make sense of a somewhat nonsensical physics regime, and trying to turn it into a valid explanation for a macro-level effect with absolutely zero evidence.
These interpretations exist because QM is so mind-bendingly weird. I'm taking an interpretation of the collapsing wave-function that many physicists agree with, and suggesting these branching universes might occasionally interact.

There is nothing paranormal about any of that. If there is, then the word doesn't have any meaning.
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Old 14th March 2018, 01:17 PM   #177
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This is driving me crazy
https://i.imgur.com/drLKyY2.png
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Old 14th March 2018, 01:22 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
These interpretations exist because QM is so mind-bendingly weird. I'm taking an interpretation of the collapsing wave-function that many physicists agree with, and suggesting these branching universes might occasionally interact.

There is nothing paranormal about any of that. If there is, then the word doesn't have any meaning.
Suggesting that these parallel universes occasionally interact is the paranormal explanation. There's no evidence that such universes even exist on the macro scale.

You might as well say the ME is caused by time travel.
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Old 14th March 2018, 01:27 PM   #179
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theprestige is actually explaining it better than I was, mainly because I get so tired of hearing the same crap from people who don't understand what they're parroting and lose patience.

This use of the MWI is analogous to someone hearing about Einstein's thought experiment involving the train, then trying to use that as a foundation for an argument that we can look out the train windows.
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Old 14th March 2018, 01:30 PM   #180
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What is being called the Mandela Effect is what is already known as Confabulation and Collective False Memories. For some reason it was recently renamed on the web as the ME, probably just to be catchy. It's also now been given a supernatural or paranormal spin which just isn't there in any academic study of memory. Check out these links...

Collective False Memories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_...false_memories

Confabulation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation?wprov=sfla1
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Old 14th March 2018, 02:03 PM   #181
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In the case of the actual Mandela effect, I think it's very easily explained:
Wasn't there this black dude, pretty famous for fighting against apartheid, and then he died in jail?
Yes, indeed! (Only, it wasn't Mandela.)
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Old 14th March 2018, 02:04 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
What about it is paranormal? We're not talking about ghosts. We're reasonably sure other universes exist and somewhat sure they're causally disconnected from us, but stuff like quantum immortality isn't paranormal, it's just weird. The Many Worlds Interpretation of QM is very weird, but not paranormal in the least. If all these branching universes exist, who's to say we don't occasionally slip in and out of them?
Might as well talk about ghosts because the Mandella Effect works on the same mental mechanism.

People see ghosts due to a misprocessing of visual information in the brain combined with external sensory input. In short - people mis-see see things. It's fairly rare, but it does happen. The Jaws-Holly thing is a great example where rational people swear she had braces, but the evidence is clear that she did not.

The people who thought she had braces didn't see the movie in a parallel universe, their brains made a judgement call based on the visual information in the scene where Holly is in pigtails, which in 1979 was nerdy, and for a Bond movie- definitely nerdy.

Pigtails+Glasses+Jaws=Braces...right? The assumption was Jaws fell in love with her because she had braces, and not desirable cleavage, and great legs. The viewers who "saw" braces made a visual interpretation. Later on the two are on the space station and she clearly does not have braces.

Yes, it's kind of creepy to have an image in your mind that you are sure you saw, and then find out you didn't see it. Welcome to my world.

The idea that this is all caused by parallel universes, worm holes, and whatnot is layman's Quantum Physics applied to justify woo.
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Old 14th March 2018, 02:07 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
In the case of the actual Mandela effect, I think it's very easily explained:
Wasn't there this black dude, pretty famous for fighting against apartheid, and then he died in jail?
Yes, indeed! (Only, it wasn't Mandela.)
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Old 14th March 2018, 03:28 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Suggesting that these parallel universes occasionally interact is the paranormal explanation. There's no evidence that such universes even exist on the macro scale.
By that logic, you would have to claim the MWI of QM is paranormal, which would probably surprise the scientists who believe it's the correct interpretation. Like I said, the term loses all meaning if you're going to apply it to things that could be possible, but aren't yet known. You might as well call warp speed paranormal too.

Quote:
You might as well say the ME is caused by time travel.
No, we're pretty sure time travel isn't possible. I haven't heard any such claims about moving in and out of parallel worlds. Do you think Quantum Immortality is paranormal?
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Old 14th March 2018, 03:35 PM   #185
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I'm halfway convinced that we're in some alternate universe right now. One of the cliches of old sci-fi stories is the premise "What if... Hitler won World War II?" (I don't think that counts as a Godwin...)

Except that in our universe, somebody put this random guy into "What if x became President of the United States?" I hate being part of some Writing 101 exercise.
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Old 14th March 2018, 03:41 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'm halfway convinced that we're in some alternate universe right now. One of the cliches of old sci-fi stories is the premise "What if... Hitler won World War II?" (I don't think that counts as a Godwin...)

Except that in our universe, somebody put this random guy into "What if x became President of the United States?" I hate being part of some Writing 101 exercise.
The only thing stranger than fiction is non-fiction.
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Old 14th March 2018, 04:29 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Veliki George View Post
I don't really have an explanation. I'm skeptic and I do not believe in anything paranormal. I'm not an expert in physics and I do not know anything about the theory of parallel universes, but I was told that it is impossible just to jump from one universe to another. It does not make any sense that the result is a change in the name of some of the products, movies and other pop cultural stuff.
I would like to believe that this is just a false memory, but so many people remember the movie with an exclamation mark. I can not understand why we all make exactly the same mistake. Where did that exclamation come from?
I've never seen Them! nor other old horror movies.
A random exclamation mark at the end of a name? Who would think to do such a thing?
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Old 14th March 2018, 05:03 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
By that logic, you would have to claim the MWI of QM is paranormal, which would probably surprise the scientists who believe it's the correct interpretation. Like I said, the term loses all meaning if you're going to apply it to things that could be possible, but aren't yet known. You might as well call warp speed paranormal too.
"Warp speed" isn't paranormal, it's science fiction. Warp speed as an explanation for why lights in the sky appear to violate known laws of physics would be paranormal.

Same basic principle here. MWI is a useful construct for thinking about counter-intuitive observations in quantum mechanics. You would need to show that it's a reality at macro scale, before I'm willing to accept it as anything other that woo, for explaining macro-scale phenomenon.

Especially in this particular context, where we don't need to appeal to parallel universes to arrive at a parsimonious explanation for the phenomenon.
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Old 14th March 2018, 06:00 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
No. I think that they wanted to create a reference to Jaws in a funny way.

I believe that that commercial predates the Internet and predates the (now) widespread realization that there is a Jaws Mandela Effect phenomenon. For some people, that commercial could cause the JME when they didn't actually have it prior.
It could yes.

But i can say for me this was not the cause as that card was never available in my country, so likely never advertised there, and also, i did not own a tv nor ever really watch one ( that is a different story)

I think this may apply to many others as the card in question and the advertising campaign the ad is taken from seems to only have been for FINLAND.

And the vast majority of the madelatards are from the USA not finland.

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Old 14th March 2018, 06:09 PM   #190
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one possibility :

social psychological experimentation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p1-qzwDhKg
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Old 14th March 2018, 06:16 PM   #191
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Sunny guy from the raisin bran cereals lost his sunglasses.

Still, there are Yahoo question threads from ten years ago about why the sun is wearing glasses.
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Old 14th March 2018, 06:20 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
one possibility :

social psychological experimentation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p1-qzwDhKg
Why did you link that worthless video? Some guy following his dogs up a trail talking to himself? Why bother posting that?
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Old 14th March 2018, 06:27 PM   #193
esspee
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Why did you link that worthless video? Some guy following his dogs up a trail talking to himself? Why bother posting that?
shorter than writing it out that's why
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Old 14th March 2018, 06:34 PM   #194
Thermal
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
shorter than writing it out that's why
Writing what out? He didn't say anything. If a link is deemed worthy of posting, shouldn't it contain...something? I am not objecting to the content. I object to the utter lack of it.
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Old 14th March 2018, 06:42 PM   #195
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Why did you link that worthless video? Some guy following his dogs up a trail talking to himself? Why bother posting that?
Because esspee made that video. He is the creator of that video and he regularly pimps his own videos here.
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Old 14th March 2018, 07:13 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Warp speed" isn't paranormal, it's science fiction. Warp speed as an explanation for why lights in the sky appear to violate known laws of physics would be paranormal.


It either is or isn't paranormal. It doesn't matter what you're using it to explain.

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Same basic principle here. MWI is a useful construct for thinking about counter-intuitive observations in quantum mechanics.
It's more than that. It's an explanation for the apparent collapse of the wave function, and it solves some paradoxes. SOME explanation is true. MWI is a leading candidate. The implications are, of course, all these universes branching off whenever observations happen.

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You would need to show that it's a reality at macro scale, before I'm willing to accept it as anything other that woo, for explaining macro-scale phenomenon.
That's odd reasoning. Are you rejecting macro-scale phenomena that are caused by micro-scale events?

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Especially in this particular context, where we don't need to appeal to parallel universes to arrive at a parsimonious explanation for the phenomenon.
Probably not, but it's fun. My only point in all this was that it's similar to quantum immortality (which is not "woo"), and not at all like "leprechauns".
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Old 14th March 2018, 08:40 PM   #197
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Oh, you don't like the word paranormal? My bad. Let's call it woo, instead. You're foisting pseudoscientific woo as if it were a reasonable alternative explanation.
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Old 14th March 2018, 08:49 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Oh, you don't like the word paranormal? My bad. Let's call it woo, instead. You're foisting pseudoscientific woo as if it were a reasonable alternative explanation.
I just ask the same question: what makes it "woo"? Other universes popping into existence? No. Other universes having effects on this one? No. A Shroedinger's Cat death propelling you to another universe? No, unless you think Max Tegmark traffics in "woo", which would be an odd claim to make.

What, exactly, has got you riled up, The?
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Old 14th March 2018, 09:00 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
Sometimes stupid ideas are held by smart people. I don't know what quantum immortality is, but The Mandela Effect is a stupid idea.
It is stupid.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the "parallel universe travel" explanation of the Mandela Effect was originally proposed as a joke. I could be wrong about that - but see that's the thing; in the "home universe" that I originally came from, sometimes a person would misremember things and someone else could come along and say "no that's wrong it was this way, see look at these old things" and the first person would say "oh I see, obviously I misremembered, thanks for clearing that up for me". But obviously I've now slipped into a parallel world where when people remember something one way and are then given evidence that their memory is wrong, they now just insist their memory is impeccable and it's reality that is obviously wrong.

Unfortunately parallel-universe slippage isn't the only explanation that crackpots have envisioned for the Mandela Effect. There's also a significant number of others who seem to believe that some unknown force is deliberately editing historical events, things like movie lines and children's author's names, and others' memories of same, for potentially diabolical reasons.
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Old 14th March 2018, 09:54 PM   #200
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It's been said before, but the Mandela Effect is pure ego. Rather than admit to conflating some memories about popular culture, people prefer to draw up scenarios wherein differing universes are colliding and only special people can see it.

But other people misremember it the exact same way?! Well, here's a thought. Human brains are all made out of the same stuff, and function in basically the same way (the healthy ones, anyway). And people within a particular demographic are exposed to a lot of the same pop culture influences. Is it really so unbelievable, then, that said people might end up with a lot of the same memory mistakes?

I know we're all special and unique and ****, but there are only so many things a brain can do. It just doesn't amaze me that much. What amazes me is the hoops people will jump through to invent mysticism where only boring brain farts exist.
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