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Tags ae911truth , NCSEA , richard gage , wtc7

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Old 28th September 2015, 12:37 AM   #1
Oystein
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Ae911T exhibits at NCSEA's "Structural Engineering Summit"

On October 01/02, 2015, Richard Gage and Steven Dusterwald will descend into a "lion's den" when they promote "the Truth" at the National Council of Structural Engineers Associations' (NCSEA) "Structural Engineering Summit" in Las Vegas:

us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=d03bf3ffcac549c7dc7888ef5&id=059d6bc9eb

The NCSEA doesn't seem to be a particularly eminent professional association, judging from their juvenile age (est. 1993), stubby WP article and representation of only 44 US states, but hey, real, non-cranky (I believe) structural engineers!

Strange that Gage and his buddy are going there for only 2 days, need only $1500 and are announcing this only now. Could this merely be a payed trip to Vegas?


Anyway, I'll watch what comes of this.
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Old 28th September 2015, 07:48 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
On October 01/02, 2015, Richard Gage and Steven Dusterwald will descend into a "lion's den" when they promote "the Truth" at the National Council of Structural Engineers Associations' (NCSEA) "Structural Engineering Summit" in Las Vegas:

missing link[forbidden until post count reaches 15]

The NCSEA doesn't seem to be a particularly eminent professional association, judging from their juvenile age (est. 1993),missing link[forbidden until post count reaches 15] stubby WP article[/url] and representation of only 44 US states, but hey, real, non-cranky (I believe) structural engineers!

Strange that Gage and his buddy are going there for only 2 days, need only $1500 and are announcing this only now. Could this merely be a payed trip to Vegas?


Anyway, I'll watch what comes of this.
Always disparaging. Speaking to an audience of structural engineers would seem to be inline with AE911Ts mission.
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Old 28th September 2015, 08:03 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Strange that Gage and his buddy are going there for only 2 days, need only $1500 and are announcing this only now. Could this merely be a payed trip to Vegas?


In their defense, I don't believe there's ever a "merely" paid trip to Vegas. Anytime you can go to Vegas on someone else's dime, it's pretty awesome! I pulled that off once, several years ago.
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Old 28th September 2015, 08:15 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
Always disparaging. Speaking to an audience of structural engineers would seem to be inline with AE911Ts mission.
Sure, and I am interested in how it goes, hence this thread!
Ideally, someone not affiliated with 9/11 Truth goes there to report on conversion rates.
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Old 28th September 2015, 10:09 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
Always disparaging. Speaking to an audience of structural engineers would seem to be inline with AE911Ts mission.
No reality based structural engineer would agree with the fantasy claims of Gage. Gage has attracted less than 0.1 percent of all engineers to believe or sign up to his group of liars.
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Old 28th September 2015, 03:22 PM   #6
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All what these people would be doing is visiting the trade show. This is something you and I could do. It does not give Richard Gage any status. They are not even an exhibitor. These are listed here http://www.ncsea.com/meetings/annual...exhibitorinfo/

Edit. So the link in the OP appears to be misleading.
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Old 28th September 2015, 03:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
All what these people would be doing is visiting the trade show. This is something you and I could do. It does not give Richard Gage any status. They are not even an exhibitor. These are listed here http://www.ncsea.com/meetings/annual...exhibitorinfo/

Edit. So the link in the OP appears to be misleading.
They will be outside spreading the "truth". That's all the faithful needs.
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Old 28th September 2015, 03:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
All what these people would be doing is visiting the trade show. This is something you and I could do. It does not give Richard Gage any status. They are not even an exhibitor. These are listed here http://www.ncsea.com/meetings/annual...exhibitorinfo/

Edit. So the link in the OP appears to be misleading.
Uhm ... no?
Open your own link.
4th item on the exhibitors list is:
"113 Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth www.ae911truth.org"

(their booth is the one farthest from the bar )
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Old 28th September 2015, 11:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Uhm ... no?
Open your own link.
4th item on the exhibitors list is:
"113 Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth www.ae911truth.org"

(their booth is the one farthest from the bar )
Yes, you are right. I do not know how I missed that.
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Old 29th September 2015, 06:18 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
In their defense, I don't believe there's ever a "merely" paid trip to Vegas. Anytime you can go to Vegas on someone else's dime, it's pretty awesome! I pulled that off once, several years ago.
I've had dozens of paid trips to Vegas for work, usually staying at a swanky hotel like the Wynn or Bellagio and playing golf at a sweet course. I'm a big fan of Las Vegas when all of the non-gambling costs are covered by someone else.
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Old 29th September 2015, 10:19 AM   #11
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SEA is an organization that is focused on educating its members. It's a bit cynical, but I think the primary role is to get its members their required state-mandated post license education for license maintenance. Education and training on actual engineering topics seems a bit secondary to me. It's getting involved in other things, particularly on the local level, like defining case-study region wind and snow loads. The heavy lifting in seismic and hurricane loading and analysis is still being done by ASCE, AISC and ACI, but SEA is slowly getting more involved in that.
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Old 29th September 2015, 10:30 AM   #12
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Thanks for the perspective on the engineering clubs, NB!
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Old 29th September 2015, 06:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
SEA is an organization that is focused on educating its members. It's a bit cynical, but I think the primary role is to get its members their required state-mandated post license education for license maintenance. Education and training on actual engineering topics seems a bit secondary to me. It's getting involved in other things, particularly on the local level, like defining case-study region wind and snow loads. The heavy lifting in seismic and hurricane loading and analysis is still being done by ASCE, AISC and ACI, but SEA is slowly getting more involved in that.
Thanks Newtons Bit.

The phenomenon is common - focus on "ticks in the competency boxes" rather than any depth of knowledge.

A slight side track I recall back in a previous life when I did the "all corps" competency exams for AU Army officer promotion - the non engineering topics - we had a "coaching course". Much of the focus was on how to pass multiple choice exams. The "warm up" on the introductory evening was an 8 question multiple choice test of pure nonsense. And it was possible to get 100% by exam technique alone. By definition you could not "know" or "understand" the topics.

The coaching in how to pass exams was set up by the engineers - pragmatic as you would expect. First principle of war - 'Define the Objective" - and the objective was pass the exam and get promoted.

The actual engineering exams were more realistic - we were all engineers.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 01:48 AM   #14
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AE911Truth claims that they "spoke with more than 100 structural engineers" on the first day, and "roughly half of them quickly recognized WTC 7s destruction as a controlled demolition and 24 took the courageous step of signing our petition" (bolding original):

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Of course this can't be verified: Since before the AIA convention, they have failed to add any A&E to the online petition.


In addition, they announce that Gage will be speaking at another building industry event in Boston on November 19:
ABX 2915 - Gage speaking
Interestingly, they claimed 150 new signers at the AIA in May. This should add to the ca. 2350 then and now on the online count; yet the ABX announcement speaks of "2,300 A/E's [who] are demanding a new investigation" - not 2,500.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 08:48 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
They will be outside spreading the "truth". That's all the faithful needs.
The kind of "truth" that makes the flowers grow.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 04:38 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
The kind of "truth" that makes the flowers grow.
Don't they need the south end of a north bound male bovine, to spread their truth, are are they
Using the prepackaged truth instead of the fresh stuff?

Oh never mind forgot their truth has aged 14 years, should be perfect for lie lacs.
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Old 4th October 2015, 09:55 PM   #17
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Not much more on the convention this weekend, but I found this.

http://www.ae911truth.org/news/234-n...on-makers.html

Wonder what these people will think when they find it in their mailboxes?
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Old 4th October 2015, 11:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Playing Games View Post
Not much more on the convention this weekend, but I found this.

http://www.ae911truth.org/news/234-n...on-makers.html

Wonder what these people will think when they find it in their mailboxes?
I am sure it is hitting the rubbish bins at a fast rate. Just done a google search for responses. Only discussed at a few forums and blogs, mostly ones devoted to 911 issues. Nothing beyond that. No mass news sites, no ordinary blogs. If it had been something serious then maybe I should have found something on a site like this one http://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/
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Old 5th October 2015, 05:20 PM   #19
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This is what's called success?

Quote:
Richard Gage was in Pahrump, Nevada, Sunday October 4th as part of our Eight-City Southwest Tour Here is Richard's report:

"Hello all!

The second stop on our Southwest tour of the premiere of AE911Truth's latest film "Firefighters Architects Engineers: Expose 9/11 Myths" drew 57 curious citizens to the Bob Ruud Community Center, including two County commissioners and the County Sheriff, who stayed for an hour and a half to discuss the details of the implications of the explosive destruction of all three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11. This town of 30,000 brought three times more attendees out than did the nearby city of 2 million in Las Vegas the night before.

Before the presentation 3 agreed with the official story and 10 were unsure. The remainder agreed with the evidence for controlled demolition. After the presentation nobody believed the official story and only three were unsure. Again and again we find that the evidence speaks for itself. It's up to all of us to get more people to see it! Get the word out in your community!

Huge thanks to our ever 9/11 truth busy event Coordinator Kenny Bent and all of his incredible crew in this small but very passionately dedicated town!"
Other than that, not much more said on this weekend's convention. Why are they so mum about it?

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Old 19th November 2015, 06:15 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
AE911Truth claims that they "spoke with more than 100 structural engineers" on the first day, and "roughly half of them quickly recognized WTC 7s destruction as a controlled demolition and 24 took the courageous step of signing our petition" (bolding original):

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Of course this can't be verified: Since before the AIA convention, they have failed to add any A&E to the online petition.
...
Seven weeks later, they have added signatures to the online Petition. Today I can identify 10, not 24, that mostly signed a paper form during the Meeting in Las Vegas at the end of September. They differ from all other new signatures in three ways:
- 9 of the 10 don't have a Degree
- Their Bio and Personal Statement are short and pretty impersonal
- They are licensed engineers, 8 of whom state they are structural engineers.
They are:
FirstName LastNameCity, StateBioPersonalStatement
Michael FillionSharon, MAI'm a licensed structural engineer in Massachusetts.The collapse of WTC 7 appeared to be a planned demolition.
Kelly GardnerOwensboro, KYI'm a 20 year practicing structural engineer in KY and 9 other states.I support the call for a new investigation into the collapse of WTC 7.
Allyn HectorFort Worth, TXI'm a licensed structural engineer; I've been licensed in Texas since 1990.The official report looked suspicious.
Chris HerronCharlotte, NCI'm a structural engineer. I've been an engineer for 20 years, and I'm licensed in North Carolina and South Carolina.WTC 7 needs investigation.
Orin Johnston IIIOklahoma City, OKI'm a licensed engineer in Oklahoma City.I support the call for a new investigation into WTC 7.
Dilip KhatriPasadena, CAI have a PhD from USC. I'm a licensed structural engineer in California.I support the call for a new investigation into 9/11.
Wiley KrapfGills Rock, WII was a professional engineer licensed in three states, and am now retired. I spent twenty plus years in R&D with a building products firm and 11 years as a structural engineer.The ''official'' explanation is not worth anyone's comments or consideration.
Tim PotyrajPlano, TXI've been a licensed structural engineer in Texas for 20 years.We should know the truth about Building 7.
Sarah ScarboroughAtlanta, GAI've been a structural engineer for three years. I have an EIT license in Georgia.We need to know the truth about the collapse of WTC 7.
Douglas WoolfChonhassen, MNI've been a licensed structural engineer in Minnesota for 20 years. The collapse of WTC 7 looks suspicious.
I wonder what happened to the 14 that allegedly signed in September, but didn't make it to the list by now.
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Old 19th November 2015, 06:38 AM   #21
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I suspect these calls for a new investigation from these 10 are based on seeing the pitch from Gage... The "other side" would be the NIST report which is hardly the sort of PR shlock and awe that the AE presentation is. It's not hard for question to arise when one is not familiar with the collapse, the facts and the engineering design of the structure. It DOES look a CD... and it IS a fact that few to no buildings have collapse as 7wtc. But that doesn't mean that it is a CD... but it may mean that they and the public need to better understand that particular collapse.

With all due respect to the NIST effort and those who support it... the slipping of a single girder as the cause for the collapse they see is not a very compelling one.. that is the CASE is arcane, esoteric and in a sense disturbing because the implication is that any high rise that loses sprinklers, and fire fighting... can totally collapse.

Should the public be reassured by the NIST report or be concerned at the trust of it?

It seems to me that the suggested vulnerability of this building to "office fires" is enough to inspire engineers to support a new investigation or perhaps a better and more complete explanation.

This is why AE and Tony have their knickers in a twist of the girder walk off... Is this a common detail or not? Does this represent a widespread vulnerability or not?

I don't support the irresponsible statements AE makes (many of false as well)... but I can see how their sowing doubt can pull in signatures calling for further investigation.
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Old 19th November 2015, 08:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
I don't support the irresponsible statements AE makes (many of false as well)... but I can see how their sowing doubt can pull in signatures calling for further investigation.
It's a very carefully framed version of the fallacy of equivocation, I think. AE911T's genuine aim is to bring about a new investigation into the entirety of the 9/11 attacks, and ideally one that is constrained from the start to the finding that the US government is primarily or solely the instigator of the attacks. However, by carefully avoiding stressing that aim, they do their best to make it look as if what they want is an engineering investigation into the collapse of WTC7 on the basis that the best available explanation is inadequate. The latter is at least arguable, whereas the former is insane, so by stressing the latter they lead people gently into accepting the former. And the mechanism for this is "We need a new investigation," without being too clear on what kind of investigation, into what events, and with what scope.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

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Old 19th November 2015, 08:42 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
It's a very carefully framed version of the fallacy of equivocation, I think. AE911T's genuine aim is to bring about a new investigation into the entirety of the 9/11 attacks, and ideally one that is constrained from the start to the finding that the US government is primarily or solely the instigator of the attacks. However, by carefully avoiding stressing that aim, they do their best to make it look as if what they want is an engineering investigation into the collapse of WTC7 on the basis that the best available explanation is inadequate. The latter is at least arguable, whereas the former is insane, so by stressing the latter they lead people gently into accepting the former. And the mechanism for this is "We need a new investigation," without being too clear on what kind of investigation, into what events, and with what scope.

Dave
I think you are correct. And this is how I parted company with these "truth seekers" years ago... I simply missed their main agenda... "the inside job/false flag/CD conclusion" because I was and remain interested in understanding the mechanisms leading to these structures collapsing as quickly and completely as they did.

I've learned a lot about this... since naively expecting a group calling itself architects and engineers... for... to actually be shedding light on these issues.

Their approach is cyncial and sneaky and sadly many... even intelligent people fall for it.. the sort of bait and switch you identify.

Ironic when one tries to actually engage these guys with engineering or physics or point out their mistakes... they refuse or accuse you of being a shill and so on. When shown to be incorrect.. they do not back down, revise or yield an inch.
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