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Old 21st November 2020, 07:46 AM   #281
Craig4
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I asked how egg knew the demographics of the crowd at that Trump rally. That link was what I got back. (as expected)

I don't think minorities have weak minds. I think in some areas like Miami Dade county FL, the Dems are having a nervous breakdown over the recent minority support of Trump.

Nearly half the Country is up in arms due to the media push to accept Biden as being rightfully elected by dismissing any claims of foul deeds. Everyone needs to know the election was valid, we need to know.
Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You failed to note that it's also judges dismissing Trumps silly little claims of "foul deeds". If Trump and his supporters would stop lying about voter fraud, it would go a long way to that nearly half the country accepting that their guy lost. Of course Trump supporters aren't like us and don't share our American values so it's unlikely they will ever do the right thing.
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Old 21st November 2020, 08:38 AM   #282
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Not sure the USA will survive this. Granted, online comments can be skewed to vocal minorities, but the virulence and sheer quantity of - to use the technical term - nonsense Trump supporters are now wed to at the hip is almost overwhelming to witness, extending across multiple media.

The barbarians are at the gates, and are likely to do great damage. The next Republican in the WH will run on Trumpism, if it's not Trump himself, and that will be the end and fall of Rome, as the electoral promises will center on jailing, even executing, political enemies, the core central demand now of Banana Republicans. And we all know how obsessed Trump is with delivering the promised red meat, and how amoral and bloodthirsty mass hysteria is.

Of all my desires today, the foremost is that Europe dump Poland and Hungary, along with Slovenia, and any other budding authoritarians, even if that leaves just Germany, France, and, say, Spain, as large member nations. Next is to fully engage in Macron's vision of building European defenses, apart from other reasons also to keep Europe more broadly engaged in advanced manufacturing. Time to realize that one cannot trust the USA any longer, not without extreme peril, in spite of today's many fine Biden voters.

Post Trump, there may be no putting the American fascism genie back in the bottle, not until after a major conflict, or nuclear war. That's what it took last time, and the world is real short on lessons learned.
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Old 21st November 2020, 08:46 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Nearly half the Country is up in arms due to the media push to accept Biden as being rightfully elected by dismissing any claims of foul deeds. Everyone needs to know the election was valid, we need to know.
Exactly.

Just like every aspect of Trump and his finances will need to be thoroughly investigated after he leaves office.

Good to know that you’ll be on board with that.
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Old 21st November 2020, 08:51 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Not sure the USA will survive this. Granted, online comments can be skewed to vocal minorities, but the virulence and sheer quantity of - to use the technical term - nonsense Trump supporters are now wed to at the hip is almost overwhelming to witness, extending across multiple media.

The barbarians are at the gates, and are likely to do great damage. The next Republican in the WH will run on Trumpism, if it's not Trump himself, and that will be the end and fall of Rome, as the electoral promises will center on jailing, even executing, political enemies, the core central demand now of Banana Republicans. And we all know how obsessed Trump is with delivering the promised red meat, and how amoral and bloodthirsty mass hysteria is.

Of all my desires today, the foremost is that Europe dump Poland and Hungary, along with Slovenia, and any other budding authoritarians, even if that leaves just Germany, France, and, say, Spain, as large member nations. Next is to fully engage in Macron's vision of building European defenses, apart from other reasons also to keep Europe more broadly engaged in advanced manufacturing. Time to realize that one cannot trust the USA any longer, not without extreme peril, in spite of today's many fine Biden voters.

Post Trump, there may be no putting the American fascism genie back in the bottle, not until after a major conflict, or nuclear war. That's what it took last time, and the world is real short on lessons learned.
Ugh. This is a real possibility. The future is not carved in stone (is that a line from Terminator?), but some vague outlines are apparent.

I am just now of the opinion that the left is going to have to drop the a lot of the progressive parts of their agenda in order to join with moderate and anti-trump conservatives in order to defeat anti-democratic forces. Not getting moderates and actual conservatives on board with a moderate platform will only serve to splinter and weaken the fight against the anti-democratic forces. Because to let the anti-democratic forces win is to lose the entire thing.
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Old 21st November 2020, 09:40 AM   #285
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I wonder what the future of The Wall will be, either as a physical artifact, or as a political issue. Will people call for existing sections to be dismantled over the next four years? Will Republicans say that President Biden ought to continue building it? Will 2024 candidates from the GOP promise to resume wall construction?


Or will it just be brushed aside as a uniquely Trump idea. I don't think anyone will be saying Mexico will pay for it.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:10 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I had no idea Minnesota was such a hotbed for Racists and White Supremacy. Your link doesn't show any Native Americans or African Americans at all or any other minorities for that matter. Obscene!
I'm not following your line of thinking here. I was basing what I said on my own local knowledge and found a link to demonstrate the demographics of the majority of people that settled in Minnesota. Minnesota is roughly 80% white, but the usual figures (such as this) don't break down the lineage of the white population. It's also worth noting that the rally we were talking about was very much aimed at the rural population, away from the Twin Cities, and in a less diverse region. The Scandinavians and Germans settled in Minnesota from around the 1850s, and while I'm sure the first few winters were really tough, that doesn't give a lot of time for natural selection.

There are Hmong and Somali communities that make up a small but significant portion of the population and are more recent arrivals. There are some racial tensions with the latter in and outside of the Twin Cities that an unscrupulous politician could use as a wedge issue, and, as sure as eggs are eggs, Trump has repeatedly done so (Bemidji Pioneer article).

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Oh my, if you think Trump was advocating for reunification of a new Nazi party in Minnesota, then by all means feel free to believe that. There's no law against having beliefs. A Nazi leader loved and admired in Israel with Jewish grandkids sounds a bit out there to me but hey do whatever narrative makes you feel good.
Trump specifically mentioned "Racehorse Theory" - that is not the same as survival of the fittest as per your suggestion. It's not the first time he's talked about it or about certain people having good genes and maybe you remember when he was talking about immigration from "s-hole countries" and opining on how he would prefer it if they came from Norway.

So, while he stopped short of saying "master race", what he suggested is indeed at the heart of Nazi ideology and should be a massive red flag. I've no idea what his larger intentions were/are and fortunately we probably won't find out where this was leading. Probably, he wasn't thinking much past stirring up xenophobia in ways that have historically worked before in order to get votes. Sure, he hasn't focused on the Jewish population (other than by amplifying anti-Semitic CTs and being inconsistent in support/condemnation for groups that do), but that's more about where significant racial tensions are in America. There are Jewish leaders and Holocaust historians who have spoken out about this (example, another example).

As far as believing a narrative that makes me feel good, trust me, nothing about this makes me feel good. I had hopes early on that Trump's need to be popular might have made him want to appeal to a broader population in how he acted as president, but instead it's been like the Southern Strategy on steroids.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I think you find the increase in Minority voter support for Trump disturbing. It runs afoul of the "Trump is a Racist" narrative exposing it for the lie it is.

I must admit I like that. Further, you'll notice Trump has drawn more minorities into the Republican party, not less. It's only a matter of time and I can wait. The days of the Democrat party are numbered.
Well, obviously racism isn't the only reason people might vote for Trump, but the factor is there, and as I see it, a non-racist would either have to have other issues that outweigh the racism or find a way to downplay it, avoid even seeing it or deny it.

The problem with your approach here, is that you also need to account for the 80% of black Americans who do believe that he's a racist (link) - pretty damning if you're going on popular opinion. I guess it might have been possible that he's not racist and just stoking racism for votes, but according to people who know him personally (such as M.Cohen, Mary Trump and Apprentice contestants) he's pretty casual in his racism privately.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:44 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Nearly half the Country is up in arms due to the media push to accept Biden as being rightfully elected by dismissing any claims of foul deeds. Everyone needs to know the election was valid, we need to know.
Trump claiming fraud without presenting evidence is just par for the course in elections. The fact that both he and reporters told us what to expect from him before people were even voting in this election should shine some light on these claims, don't you think?
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:05 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Ah, so everyone that supports Trump is a racist. Those minorities that voted for Trump are racists as well. Hilarious.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
.
Although not all Trump supporters are racists or bigots, it is a fact that those who are racist or bigots support Trump. The KKK, the Traditionalist Worker Party, the American Freedom Party, the Neo-Nazis and other white supremacists groups endorsed Trump. The anti-Muslim group ACT endorsed Trump. That is a fact that you can't ignore as much as you may want to.

Roger Ramjets is also correct that racism/bigotry is not restricted to white people. It exits within minorities as well for the same reasons it exists within whites. If you think it doesn't, I suggest you do a bit of research and educate yourself. I'll give you a head start:

https://blogs.brown.edu/ethn-1650b-s...antiblackness/

https://globalvoices.org/2017/09/07/...ns-does-exist/

Last edited by zooterkin; 24th November 2020 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:18 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wonder what the future of The Wall will be, either as a physical artifact, or as a political issue. Will people call for existing sections to be dismantled over the next four years? Will Republicans say that President Biden ought to continue building it? Will 2024 candidates from the GOP promise to resume wall construction?


Or will it just be brushed aside as a uniquely Trump idea. I don't think anyone will be saying Mexico will pay for it.
I've wondered this as well. I think Biden will halt all construction unless that will illegally break a contract with a construction company. But I doubt he will go so far as to tear down any existing wall. I don't think any new wall will be built. I also think any money that Trump diverted from the Pentagon will be diverted back.
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Old 21st November 2020, 03:37 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I've wondered this as well. I think Biden will halt all construction unless that will illegally break a contract with a construction company. But I doubt he will go so far as to tear down any existing wall. I don't think any new wall will be built. I also think any money that Trump diverted from the Pentagon will be diverted back.
That's also what I would expect as far as the physical artifact right now, but as a political issue, I don't know what to expect.

My guess is that Republicans won't take it up. The guy who called for the wall lost. That's usually something that doesn't make other people want to pick it up.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 01:56 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Just like every aspect of Trump and his finances will need to be thoroughly investigated after he leaves office.
Planning on a retaliatory fishing expedition?
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Old 23rd November 2020, 01:57 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Planning on a retaliatory fishing expedition?
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 24th November 2020 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 07:43 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Ah, so everyone that supports Trump is a racist. Those minorities that voted for Trump are racists as well. Hilarious.
Yes. But that's not surprising because... everyone is (at least a little) racist. However you ignored my point that some Trump supporters were not motivated by racism. Cubans wanting to stamp out communism in the home country aren't racist. Legal immigrants who don't want 'illegal' immigrants coming here aren't racist.

Quote:
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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Last edited by zooterkin; 24th November 2020 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 08:08 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Planning on a retaliatory fishing expedition?
Retaliatory? No. It's just that "Everyone needs to know" so to avoid being partisan we have to investigate every aspect of all presidential candidates and their finances.

Joe Biden has released some of his tax returns and financial records, which is certainly better than Trump. But not all. How can we find out what we need to know if we don't investigate?

I want to know what was on Hunter Biden's laptops. Until we know everything about that we will never know whether this election is valid. And to be fair, we must also examine Trump's son's laptops as well. Just imagine what could be on them that we need to know!
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Old 23rd November 2020, 08:11 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Planning on a retaliatory fishing expedition?
Look, you can't investigate the real crimes my guy did because I already falsely accused you of crimes you were cleared of. It's how the law works, baby!

/sarcasm
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Old 23rd November 2020, 08:25 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wonder what the future of The Wall will be, either as a physical artifact, or as a political issue. Will people call for existing sections to be dismantled over the next four years? Will Republicans say that President Biden ought to continue building it? Will 2024 candidates from the GOP promise to resume wall construction?


Or will it just be brushed aside as a uniquely Trump idea. I don't think anyone will be saying Mexico will pay for it.

I would like for the wall as it is to lie there like “two vast and trunkless legs of stone” for all of us to remember.
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Old 24th November 2020, 03:26 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wonder what the future of The Wall will be, either as a physical artifact, or as a political issue. Will people call for existing sections to be dismantled over the next four years? Will Republicans say that President Biden ought to continue building it? Will 2024 candidates from the GOP promise to resume wall construction?


Or will it just be brushed aside as a uniquely Trump idea. I don't think anyone will be saying Mexico will pay for it.
It will continue as it had always happened, current sections repaired, new sections added when required and so on.
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Old 24th November 2020, 09:22 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Retaliatory? No. It's just that "Everyone needs to know" so to avoid being partisan we have to investigate every aspect of all presidential candidates and their finances.

Joe Biden has released some of his tax returns and financial records, which is certainly better than Trump. But not all. How can we find out what we need to know if we don't investigate?

I want to know what was on Hunter Biden's laptops. Until we know everything about that we will never know whether this election is valid. And to be fair, we must also examine Trump's son's laptops as well. Just imagine what could be on them that we need to know!
I can't tell if you're serious, sarcastic, or a combination of the two. I don't know how to interpret your post.
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Old 24th November 2020, 09:24 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Look, you can't investigate the real crimes my guy did because I already falsely accused you of crimes you were cleared of. It's how the law works, baby!

/sarcasm
Nah, by all means investigate real crimes. That didn't seem to be what Johnny was suggesting though - he said that every aspect of Trump and his finances should be investigated. Which seems to suggest digging in and looking for any crime that may possibly have been committed, even if there's no pre-existing suggestion of a specific crime. It read as "I'm sure this guy is a bad guy, so let's go investigate everything possible in order to find some crime!"
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Old 24th November 2020, 09:25 AM   #300
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For the USA to detrumpify, all its needs to do is for individuals to be nicer to each other and then act together like a community.

You're welcome.
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Old 24th November 2020, 05:07 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Nah, by all means investigate real crimes. That didn't seem to be what Johnny was suggesting though - he said that every aspect of Trump and his finances should be investigated. Which seems to suggest digging in and looking for any crime that may possibly have been committed, even if there's no pre-existing suggestion of a specific crime. It read as "I'm sure this guy is a bad guy, so let's go investigate everything possible in order to find some crime!"
The little we have on Trump's finances already suggests several kinds of fraud. Do you honestly believe that when it appears someone has committed financial crimes the best way to determine the scope of those crimes is to not investigate the full scope of their finances?
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Old 24th November 2020, 05:20 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
The little we have on Trump's finances already suggests several kinds of fraud. Do you honestly believe that when it appears someone has committed financial crimes the best way to determine the scope of those crimes is to not investigate the full scope of their finances?
For my part, I'm thinking Trump is a private citizen as of January 20, and he should be treated like any other private citizen.

Part of that is that I stop caring about his finances. The IRS should still care. Whoever he owes money to or does business with should care. Me? Not so much.


ETA: De-Trumpification begins at home. I want to cleanse my mind of his presence.
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Old 24th November 2020, 06:11 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
For my part, I'm thinking Trump is a private citizen as of January 20, and he should be treated like any other private citizen.

Part of that is that I stop caring about his finances. The IRS should still care. Whoever he owes money to or does business with should care. Me? Not so much.


ETA: De-Trumpification begins at home. I want to cleanse my mind of his presence.
Any private citizen who has committed crimes should face the legal system. As President, Trump has been shielded from that. As a private citizen, he should not be shielded any longer.
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Old 24th November 2020, 06:13 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
For my part, I'm thinking Trump is a private citizen as of January 20, and he should be treated like any other private citizen.

Part of that is that I stop caring about his finances. The IRS should still care. Whoever he owes money to or does business with should care. Me? Not so much.


ETA: De-Trumpification begins at home. I want to cleanse my mind of his presence.
Wait to you see who QAnon trots out next.

By the way, has anyone heard from Q lately?
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Old 24th November 2020, 06:33 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Any private citizen who has committed crimes should face the legal system. As President, Trump has been shielded from that. As a private citizen, he should not be shielded any longer.
Agreed. He's gotten away with so much for so long. It's time he faces the music and pays the piper.
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Old 25th November 2020, 01:52 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
By the way, has anyone heard from Q lately?
He's been busy redoing all the gadgets for the new member of the double-0 section in pink...

Oh, different Q?
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Old 25th November 2020, 02:30 PM   #307
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Make him the Martyred Antichrist Golfer A-Hole? Fun.

For my part, I want to be able to throw softballs at evangelicals to dump them into burning fire a vat of acid a tub of ice cold water at some fleabit nightmare carnival roaming the plains, drawing in suckers with neon crosses and casino adverts.
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Old Today, 05:02 AM   #308
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I think one of the most important steps is that the media ceases to report on him. Sadly I suspect they will continue to do so because he makes them money.
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Old Today, 07:40 PM   #309
Lurch
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Nah, by all means investigate real crimes. That didn't seem to be what Johnny was suggesting though - he said that every aspect of Trump and his finances should be investigated. Which seems to suggest digging in and looking for any crime that may possibly have been committed, even if there's no pre-existing suggestion of a specific crime. It read as "I'm sure this guy is a bad guy, so let's go investigate everything possible in order to find some crime!"
Drumpf is *already* under investigation for financial shenanigans. Michael Cohen is a convicted felon for his role in the crime Drumpf instigated (and was named "Individual 1" for.) It ain't hypothetical, and it ain't a fishing expedition. The cat's already outta the bag.
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Old Today, 07:57 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
For my part, I'm thinking Trump is a private citizen as of January 20, and he should be treated like any other private citizen.

Part of that is that I stop caring about his finances. The IRS should still care. Whoever he owes money to or does business with should care. Me? Not so much.


ETA: De-Trumpification begins at home. I want to cleanse my mind of his presence.
What about the matter of financial crime involving the defrauding of the people? Just because the criminal didn't break into your house to steal the wad of bills under your mattress doesn't make the crime less injurious. Indeed, it's more so due to the pilfering from everyone.

You would seem to suggest that the fleecing of the community by a white collar conman to the tune of millions is less concerning than the liberating of a twenty by a crackhead in a back alley mugging. An attitude contributing to the two-tiered 'justice' system where the greedy rich crooks get better treatment than the poor thief of a load of bread.
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Old Today, 08:15 PM   #311
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
What about the matter of financial crime involving the defrauding of the people?
If he fleeced me, I missed it. If it's so, then I would definitely want prosecutors to pursue it, just as they ought to pursue fleecing everywhere it happens. He committed crimes? Someone should do something about it. I'm just saying I won't give any more thought to him and his crimes, any more than I do to the other criminals in the US. He is evicted from the White House, and he's evicted from my head.
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