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Tags Nicolas Fraisse , obes

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Old 19th February 2017, 11:41 PM   #1
Lukas1986
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Nicolas Fraisse OBE with verified hits?

This morning I cam across this person. There is not enough information about it on the Internet because its all French but they claim that this person was working on OBE experiments and had a very successful career claiming that have even hits. Here is a text on the skeptiko forum which was translated:

Quote:
Nicolas Fraisse, a Frenchman in his thirties, says his mind has been able to leave behind his body from childhood.. The experiments he described, of which there are many versions today, was the subject of a 10 year study in Geneva. If the results of this study are to be interpreted with caution, they are nevertheless likely to change our current conception of consciousness, strongly marked by a materialistic vision of man.
The study of Nicolas Fraisse was conducted by two researchers from the Swiss Institute of Noetic Sciences (ISSNOE), Sylvie Dethiollaz, a doctor of molecular biology, and Claude Charles Fourrier, psychotherapist. Two types of experience were conducted on the "subject". Our main objective was to verify the reality of out of body experience reported by Nicolas . "Explains Sylvie Dethiollaz. "We wanted to make sure he was not hallucinating. For this purpose, we established a very strict double-blind scientific protocol to validate these perceptions. In a first series of tests, started in 2007, Nicolas had to identify images projected by a computer, in a place outside his field of vision. At the end of 2008, 40 such tests had been carried out. Nicolas had managed to "see" 7 times the images. Of these 7, all responses were good. Success was 100%. "

"The other type of experience", continues Claude Charles Fourrier, "has arrived by chance". "The Odier Foundation, which funded us, wanted us to conduct further tests to verify the capacity of "clairvoyance" of Nicolas. At first sight, these experiences seemed to us less interesting. Yet, they are the ones that have produced the most convincing results. And also at the spiritual level, something very strong happened during these sessions, which startled us all. This experiment called on another faculty of Nicholas, which was hitherto unknown to him, closer to what is called 'channeling' in a somewhat 'New Age' jargon. To his surprise, and to ours, he "heard" from an indefinite external source information about the contents of sealed envelopes. The probability obtained, a chance on 69 billion billions of billions that the result is due to chance, has finally convinced us of the extrasensorial capacities of Nicolas. » "

The tests carried out on Nicolas fraisse put forward what are called "modified states of consciousness", which, almost by definition, escape objective apprehension. All the more so because one finds oneself in the presence of abilities which seem to escape the usual sensory perceptions. "All experiencers assure us that in any case, in these states of consciousness, the mind works differently", says Sylvie Déthiollaz.

This type of experience experienced by a certain number of people regularly raises the question of the existence of the soul, in the sense of an existing spiritual principle, in one way or another, independently from the body. If studies are conducted seriously, it is possible to infer a certainty as to the existence (or nature) of what is called "soul" in Christian tradition or other spiritual traditions.

This is confirmed by Sylvie Dethiollaz. "We want to be perfectly clear and honest: we have not scientifically proven anything. We have, however, shown that consciousness has much more extensive capacities than those which are commonly accepted. Our experiences confirm that it is possible to access information without going through our five senses. According to the feeling of our "experimenters", it would sometimes be a relocation of the consciousness. "

"Although, personally, we are open to the concept of soul," continues Mrs. Déthiollaz, "the word has religious connotations as regards a scientific framework. . We prefer to speak, as far as these phenomena are concerned, of consciousness. We can not speak of 'proof' of the existence of the "soul." But we can speak of a 'bundle of evidence' which leads us to this possibility. "

What impact can the ISSNOE research have on the scientific world? To this question, Fourrier Claude Charles replies: "Many scientists will undoubtedly have a hard time accepting our conclusions. Neurologists are usually extremely conservative. Quantum physicists will probably be more open. "

The two researchers also report receiving "dozens of requests from people with unconventional capabilities, and who would we tested. But for lack of resources, we can not do it. If we had as many resources as conventional research, we could undoubtedly bring results that would totally challenge our current conception of consciousness. » "

Are we going to a new paradigm on the nature of reality? "I think it's indeed", says Sylvie Déthiollaz, "that the paradigm is still changing. But this change will have such an important impact that it will take a lot of time. There is a lot of resistance ! For contrary to what one would have us believe, science is neither neutral nor totally objective. It is subject to "a priori", habits, egos and personal interests. "

The consensus of neuroscience, which dictates a materialistic vision of man, tend to indicate, in short, that thought, emotions, in short, consciousness, is a "product" of the brain. The future will tell us if human reality is, in fact, more complex. … This has always been the case in the History of Knowledge and Science: if a theory proves to provide a more complete, more coherent and more sensible view of reality, it will eventually be recognized, despite resistance.
Taken from: http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/thread...rget-obe.3636/

The original link in French about it: http://www.francetvinfo.fr/sciences/...s_2050439.html

There is even a youtube video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7_axTESs_Y

I am however here quite skeptical about it from the translated stuff:

1. Noetic scientists are behind it:
Quote:
The study of Nicolas Fraisse was conducted by two researchers from the Swiss Institute of Noetic Sciences (ISSNOE), Sylvie Dethiollaz, a doctor of molecular biology, and Claude Charles Fourrier, psychotherapist.
2. The success rate is extremely high which again leaves me skeptical:
Quote:
At the end of 2008, 40 such tests had been carried out. Nicolas had managed to "see" 7 times the images. Of these 7, all responses were good. Success was 100%. "
3. There is no information about him even with such a hit rate. He should have been years ago in the media all over the world if he is such powerful. I could not even find a paper about their methodology or anything about it which makes me skeptical after 10 years of experiments.

4. As always the scientist making the claims jump to conclusions that this will change the world. It is like with Dr. Parnia he also claimed that death will be looked at differently before his results and when we got them there was nothing which would change the stance on it. Just big words with no evidence.

5. Nicolas was was not able to see always the targets during the 10 years run according to one poster on Skeptiko:
Quote:
It seems that out of 40 tries he came back in "his earthly body" and made 7 perfectly accurate descriptions of the targets. For the other tries he said he was not able to penetrate in the rooms and see anything.
Taken from: http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/thread...rget-obe.3636/

This is what I found if someone here knows French and knows more could he please share?

Thanks for reading this and have a nice day.

Last edited by Lukas1986; 19th February 2017 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 20th February 2017, 12:20 AM   #2
Pixel42
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There is insufficient information to tell whether the hit rate is impressive or not. Did he have to correctly pick out the image that was being projected out of 100 possible images? If so then getting it right 7 times out of 40 is an extraordinary hit rate. If there were only 5 possible images from which to pick out the one he saw he did no better than chance. If he described the image he saw and someone decided it was close enough to the one that was being projected to count as a hit the experiment was utterly useless.
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Old 20th February 2017, 01:26 AM   #3
Aepervius
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I also note that the experiment were 10 years ago and nothing , and by that I mean absolutely nothing, came out of it.

Also it was said to be double blind. But without seeing the protocol, we don't know what really the quality is , and if there was a possible sensorial leak, or even what 7 out of 40 hit means.

Furthermore INREES is what of those institute about paranormal, and so far I have never been impressed by any of those institute protocols in any reported experiment on any country. I note that they tout the oft "science can't explain this".

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instit...xtraordinaires
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Old 20th February 2017, 06:58 AM   #4
Darat
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
There is insufficient information to tell whether the hit rate is impressive or not. Did he have to correctly pick out the image that was being projected out of 100 possible images? If so then getting it right 7 times out of 40 is an extraordinary hit rate. If there were only 5 possible images from which to pick out the one he saw he did no better than chance. If he described the image he saw and someone decided it was close enough to the one that was being projected to count as a hit the experiment was utterly useless.
Given how they said 7 were 100% accurate it does sound as if there was some subjective measuring. To conduct tests such as these you need to keep it simple to remove such subjectivity, for instance it is either a square or a circle not it might be a puppy on a beach or a lamb in a field.

Also as soon as it mentioned sealed in an envelope alarm bells rang. When an experiment is setup as a magic trick it would be very silly to not think it would be a magic trick.
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Old 20th February 2017, 07:15 AM   #5
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Why would a molecular biologist be involved in such silliness?
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Old 20th February 2017, 07:47 AM   #6
Aepervius
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Talking

Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Why would a molecular biologist be involved in such silliness?
Because molecular biologist are well known prestidigitation master , knowing all the cheating trick of the trade, contrary to magician or similar which would not catch anything.
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Old 20th February 2017, 08:20 AM   #7
MuDPhuD
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Originally Posted by Lukas1986 View Post
This morning I cam across this person. There is not enough information about it on the Internet because its all French but they claim that this person was working on OBE experiments and had a very successful career claiming that have even hits. Here is a text on the skeptiko forum which was translated:



Taken from: http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/thread...rget-obe.3636/

The original link in French about it: http://www.francetvinfo.fr/sciences/...s_2050439.html

There is even a youtube video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7_axTESs_Y

I am however here quite skeptical about it from the translated stuff:

1. Noetic scientists are behind it:

2. The success rate is extremely high which again leaves me skeptical:

3. There is no information about him even with such a hit rate. He should have been years ago in the media all over the world if he is such powerful. I could not even find a paper about their methodology or anything about it which makes me skeptical after 10 years of experiments.

4. As always the scientist making the claims jump to conclusions that this will change the world. It is like with Dr. Parnia he also claimed that death will be looked at differently before his results and when we got them there was nothing which would change the stance on it. Just big words with no evidence.

5. Nicolas was was not able to see always the targets during the 10 years run according to one poster on Skeptiko:

Taken from: http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/thread...rget-obe.3636/

This is what I found if someone here knows French and knows more could he please share?

Thanks for reading this and have a nice day.
If there was indeed "a very strict double-blind scientific protocol", and experiments were conducted ending in 2008, then there should be a journal report describing the experiments and results in detail, published somewhere! News articles and discussions on the internet are exactly useless in determining the veracity of the claims.

My own claim that "I have had successful astral projection many times, almost on a daily basis, and am always able to gain entrance into the target room", has exactly the same credibility as these internet reports. You justy read it on the internet!

Only a published study documenting the methods and results in detail would be worthy of any further consideration. Even Dean Radin publishes results in a journal, so that it is possible to see the many flaws in his experiments, and to discuss the failures of the methodolgy as described.
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Old 21st February 2017, 08:04 AM   #8
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I did wonder how he'd got the "Order of the British Empire"....
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Old 21st February 2017, 08:14 PM   #9
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The bolded and highlighted part is my favorite.

Quote:
To his surprise, and to ours, he "heard" from an indefinite external source information about the contents of sealed envelopes. The probability obtained, a chance on 69 billion billions of billions that the result is due to chance, has finally convinced us of the extrasensorial capacities of Nicolas.
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