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Tags "The Principle" , geocentrism

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Old 27th October 2014, 06:29 PM   #1
lpetrich
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"The Principle" - anti-Copernican movie

The Principle is now playing at a theater in Chicago, but it may soon be playing elsewhere also.

Executive Producer Robert Sungenis:
Quote:
Destined to become one of the most controversial films of our time, The Principle brings before the public eye surprising results from recent large-scale surveys of our universe – surveys which disclose unexpected evidence of a preferred direction in the cosmos, aligned with our supposedly insignificant Earth.
(Galileo Was Wrong: The Principle at "Galileo Was Wrong, The Church was Right", which advocates geocentrism)

Peter Woit speculated about the film some months back in The Principle | Not Even Wrong:
Quote:
As near as I can tell from all this, without having yet seen the full film, it appears that what probably happened is the following. Sungenis decided that the anthropic principle business in cosmology supported his views, so he went and got physicists like Kaku, Krauss and Tegmark to say silly things on camera, then edited this to suit his case. Maybe the trailer is misleading, and these people actually make a cogent case against Sungenis’s nonsense and for solid science, we’ll see…
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Old 27th October 2014, 06:58 PM   #2
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It's been playing for three days but there's nothing leaked on torrents or YouTube.

I think that's for the best.
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Old 27th October 2014, 08:48 PM   #3
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I tried watching the trailer, but the website's background music drowned out the trailer's dialogue.
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Old 27th October 2014, 08:55 PM   #4
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Wait! People still believe that the Earth is the center of the universe, and are not participating in satire?

I weep for humanity should such nonsense ever gain mass appeal.
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Old 27th October 2014, 09:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
It's been playing for three days but there's nothing leaked on torrents or YouTube.

I think that's for the best.
Nothing on torrent or youtube ? That is usually a sure indicator that the film is a load of twaddle.
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Old 27th October 2014, 09:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Wait! People still believe that the Earth is the center of the universe, and are not participating in satire?

I weep for humanity should such nonsense ever gain mass appeal.
We are speaking of the same earth where people rape pit bulls and pretend they are from ISIS about to make some massacre (see thread by checkmite) so in the rgand scheme of things, this film is nothing really that weep-worth.
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Old 27th October 2014, 10:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Nothing on torrent or youtube ? That is usually a sure indicator that the film is a load of twaddle.

No, there is plenty of stuff on YT

Yes, its a load of twaddle
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Old 28th October 2014, 12:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
It's been playing for three days but there's nothing leaked on torrents or YouTube.

I think that's for the best.
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Nothing on torrent or youtube ? That is usually a sure indicator that the film is a load of twaddle.
At this stage, however, the only way that a good digital version would be out is it was leaked by someone on the inside. But once it's officially released on digital media, it can then be cracked or scraped.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No, there is plenty of stuff on YT

Yes, its a load of twaddle
I've found it hard to find anything on YT about it. I can find its trailer, but not much more than that.
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Old 28th October 2014, 02:41 AM   #9
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The earth is flat as well, isn't it?

Well - where I live it's a disc...

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Old 28th October 2014, 02:46 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
At this stage, however, the only way that a good digital version would be out is it was leaked by someone on the inside. But once it's officially released on digital media, it can then be cracked or scraped.


I've found it hard to find anything on YT about it. I can find its trailer, but not much more than that.
Some popular movies get leaked on the first day. For this one, no one seemed to care enough to sneak their camera into the theater.

And again, I think that's for the best. Ideas this obviously bad should be ignored. It doesn't deserve attention.
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Old 28th October 2014, 04:24 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
I've found it hard to find anything on YT about it. I can find its trailer, but not much more than that.

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rinciple+Movie


Plenty on Google video search too

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...active&tbm=vid
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Old 28th October 2014, 07:52 AM   #12
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How do these people reconcile the fact that if we lived in a geocentric universe then objects revolving around us further out, just in this galaxy alone, would be going faster than the speed of light?
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Old 28th October 2014, 07:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post
How do these people reconcile the fact that if we lived in a geocentric universe then objects revolving around us further out, just in this galaxy alone, would be going faster than the speed of light?
Here's where you went wrong.
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Old 28th October 2014, 08:01 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post
How do these people reconcile the fact that if we lived in a geocentric universe then objects revolving around us further out, just in this galaxy alone, would be going faster than the speed of light?
I think the laws of physics are ignored or misinterpreted as needed by these people.
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Old 28th October 2014, 08:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
I think the laws of physics are ignored or misinterpreted as needed by these people.
They would have to be, in my opinion. The gravity well needed to have the entirety of the universe revolving around earth would be... Well, astronomical to use precisely the right term. Life wouldn't be possible on this planet at all and the solar system would've been sucked into it at the very least.

As easy as it is to poke holes in this 'theory' how in Tolkein's green middle-earth can anyone believe in it in this day and age?
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Old 28th October 2014, 08:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post
They would have to be, in my opinion. The gravity well needed to have the entirety of the universe revolving around earth would be... Well, astronomical to use precisely the right term. Life wouldn't be possible on this planet at all and the solar system would've been sucked into it at the very least.

As easy as it is to poke holes in this 'theory' how in Tolkein's green middle-earth can anyone believe in it in this day and age?
This day and age?

The day and age of homeopathy, reiki, chiropractic, Long Island mediums, bigfooters, truthers and birthers?

It's almost more surprising that this crap isn't taught in schools.
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Old 28th October 2014, 09:02 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
The day and age of homeopathy, reiki, chiropractic, Long Island mediums, bigfooters, truthers and birthers?
At least half of those things it's understandable why people would believe in them, geocentrism is so wrong it's hard to know where to even start with it. It's been disproven centuries ago by a man with a telescope that would be considered dinky by today's standards and it's so easy to disprove that even a complete layman could do it.

It quite literally has nothing to go for it.

Originally Posted by Spindrift
It's almost more surprising that this crap isn't taught in schools.
Creationism has a better chance of being taught in school.
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Old 28th October 2014, 09:03 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post
They would have to be, in my opinion. The gravity well needed to have the entirety of the universe revolving around earth would be... Well, astronomical to use precisely the right term. Life wouldn't be possible on this planet at all and the solar system would've been sucked into it at the very least.
Not true. In GR, there is no preferred frame. We can pick the frame in which the earth is at rest and see the physics works just as well as a frame in which the sun or the center of the galaxy is at rest.

There are several previous threads that touch on this. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=172265
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Old 28th October 2014, 09:08 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
The earth is flat as well, isn't it?

Well - where I live it's a disc...

Terry Prachett writes non-fiction?
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Old 28th October 2014, 09:16 AM   #20
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Old 28th October 2014, 09:26 AM   #21
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When I read about Kate Mulgrew, I knew I had this thing sounded familiar.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...hlight=mulgrew
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Old 28th October 2014, 09:46 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post
How do these people reconcile the fact that if we lived in a geocentric universe then objects revolving around us further out, just in this galaxy alone, would be going faster than the speed of light?
That's not necessarily true; the Earth can be the center of the universe and yet still be rotating.

Perhaps a compromise can be made by naming the Earth's solar system to be the center of the universe.
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Old 28th October 2014, 09:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
This day and age?

The day and age of homeopathy, reiki, chiropractic, Long Island mediums, bigfooters, truthers and birthers?

It's almost more surprising that this crap isn't taught in schools.
Those three and more are taught in the finest medical schools in the US.
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Old 28th October 2014, 09:53 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post
At least half of those things it's understandable why people would believe in them, geocentrism is so wrong it's hard to know where to even start with it. It's been disproven centuries ago by a man with a telescope that would be considered dinky by today's standards and it's so easy to disprove that even a complete layman could do it.

It quite literally has nothing to go for it.



Creationism has a better chance of being taught in school.
Then let the bible rule:


Respectful Insolence
Quackademic medicine in Connecticut
Posted by Orac on October 14, 2014
(40)
HolyGrail067-450x248


A common topic that I’ve written about since the very beginning of this blog is the infiltration of quackery into what were formerly bastions of science-based medicine. Most recently, I lamented just how far this process has progressed at the Cleveland Clinic, as evidenced by its recent opening of a clinic devoted to the quackery that is functional medicine and, not long before that, its opening a clinic run by a dubious naturopath practicing traditional Chinese medicine. That’s not even counting its long-standing credulous promotion of the faith healing known as reiki and the use of acupuncture on children.

Unfortunately, the Cleveland Clinic is far from the only bastion of what I like to call quackademic medicine. Far from it. I was reminded of this when I saw a story yesterday pop up in my Google Alerts on alternative medicine. It’s entitled Alternative medicine gains steam in Connecticut, an article that’s also on the Connecticut NPR website. Where in Connecticut is it gaining steam? Yale University, that’s where. Well, there and the University of Connecticut. Of course, Yale is the home of David Katz, whom we’ve met several times before, such as when he advocated a “more fluid concept of evidence” and claimed that it is necessary to embrace quackery in order not to “abandon patients.” If this article is any indication, it’s only getting worse there.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...n-connecticut/
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Old 28th October 2014, 09:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Those three and more are taught in the finest medical schools in the US.
True, but I was referring to K-12. Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the USA they were being taught there as well.
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Old 28th October 2014, 10:45 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Terry Prachett writes non-fiction?
More so than the script writers of this movie...

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Old 28th October 2014, 12:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BowlOfRed View Post
Not true. In GR, there is no preferred frame. We can pick the frame in which the earth is at rest and see the physics works just as well as a frame in which the sun or the center of the galaxy is at rest.

There are several previous threads that touch on this. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=172265

If the Earth is the centre of the universe and everything revolves around it then then you only have to out to the nearest star to prove that what mudcat says is correct.

Proxima Centauri is 4.2 light years away, and would be orbiting us. Assuming for argument's sake a circular orbit, the semi axis (α) of that orbit is 4.2 light years. The circumference of the orbit is given by πx2α

3.142 x 4.2 x 2 = 26.4

This means that Proxima Centauri would travel 26.4 light-years around its orbit in 12 months to complete one orbit; ergo it would be traveling at 26.4 times c, the speed of light. This is clearly a physical impossibility.
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Old 28th October 2014, 12:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
This is clearly a physical impossibility.
Only if you 'believe' in physics.
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Old 28th October 2014, 12:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That's not necessarily true; the Earth can be the center of the universe and yet still be rotating.

Perhaps a compromise can be made by naming the Earth's solar system to be the center of the universe.
As I understand it, the current model of the universe has everything placed almost in a spherical manner as if on the surface of a globe. If you accept that as true then the argument could be made that the earth really is the center of the universe even as it revolves around sol, but so is every other stellar body in the universe.

Somehow, though, I don't think this is what geocentric proponents are proposing.
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Old 28th October 2014, 01:36 PM   #30
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At the film's blog page, you can read about 100 paragraphs explaining that the Copernican Model isn't geo-centrism. But it's tough to understand why.
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Old 30th October 2014, 03:03 AM   #31
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Because it's heliocentric?
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Old 30th October 2014, 03:25 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
The earth is flat as well, isn't it?

Well - where I live it's a disc...

Earth is round.
Like a pancake.
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Old 30th October 2014, 04:51 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
Earth is round.
Like a pancake.
That a bunny
Is wearing
As a hat
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Old 30th October 2014, 11:20 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by HighRiser View Post
That a bunny
Is wearing
As a hat
Is it bunnies all the way down?
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Old 30th October 2014, 04:50 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Is it bunnies all the way down?
I'm not sure, but I think it's just the one bunny standing on the anthropic principle. No one has gotten to the bottom of that, as far as I can tell.
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Old 30th October 2014, 06:42 PM   #36
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Aside from the sad fact Captain Janeway is narrating this nonsense I don't get what the big deal is about.

The Universe is a three dimensional "construct curved in a 4th dimension. The result being if you flew in a straight line from the earth you would eventually end up back on earth. (This would take a vast number of years.)

To make the comparison more direct. Imagine dots evenly spaced on a sphere. In two dimensional terms each dot is at the "centre" of the two dimensional Universe that curves in a third dimension that we can perceive. In a similar way in our three dimensional Universe every point in it would be the centre of our Universe in three dimensional terms. Of course this would not be true in four dimensional terms of reference.

So the statement the earth is at the "centre" of our Universe, (In three dimensional terms.) is a mere truism but then so is every other location of our Universe!

Last edited by Pacal; 30th October 2014 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 31st October 2014, 12:11 AM   #37
steenkh
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
The Universe is a three dimensional "construct curved in a 4th dimension. The result being if you flew in a straight line from the earth you would eventually end up back on earth. (This would take a vast number of years.)
Nice theory. Do they have any evidence to back it up?
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Old 31st October 2014, 12:33 AM   #38
Mudcat
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
Aside from the sad fact Captain Janeway is narrating this nonsense I don't get what the big deal is about.

*Snip*

So the statement the earth is at the "centre" of our Universe, (In three dimensional terms.) is a mere truism but then so is every other location of our Universe!
The big deal is that geocentrists aren't arguing this. They are arguing that the current model of the universe is wrong and that the far more ancient model, that of the earth is at the center of everything and the entire universe is revolving around it, is right.

Here is the YouTube channel of the people in question that made the pseudo-documentary in the original post. At least, I'm sure it's the same people.
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Old 31st October 2014, 09:28 AM   #39
Ryan O'Dine
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It's pretty self-evident that I'm the center of the universe. Since I'm on Earth...
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Old 31st October 2014, 10:11 AM   #40
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The Center of the Universe used to be at my desk. I had a sign to that effect. When I had to move to a different building my e-mail sig apologized for the resultant slight wobble.

Back on topic, The Principle's first run, in a single theater, has ended after just a week. It had made a whopping $8600 or so as of last Sunday. No sign of any openings anywhere else.

At another forum I frequent, we have a crypto-creationist poster who's obsessed with the film. And another (me) obsessed with rebutting him.
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