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2nd August 2011, 07:19 PM | #1 |
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Possible Trickery?
I have come to the conclusion that 911 was not an inside job. However, I don't think the US government is off the hook just yet.
I'm just wondering, is it likely or probable that a "conspiracy" regarding the reason for the attacks that they wanted to tell the people took place? Is it worth discussing how they may have looked at 911 as a ticket to arms sales after/before the fact? Is it possible that they knew it was going to happen eventually because of multiple warnings with not much they could do, but still planned out before hand how they were going to take advantage of the situation? It seems foreknowledge is the only valid evidence or possibility I've seen of 911 trickery. Isn't it likely that there were tons of needle in a hay stack warnings at first but as the threat progressed and a real pattern progressed before the attacks, and they still took no direct action? Is is likely that any conscious foreknowledge may have been focused on the aftermath and not prevention? I think the Truth Movement has committed suicide due to it's mind being too open, however, I think their may be a source for their initial skepticism of the official narrative that we may be turning a blind eye to, even disregarding the fact that nothing like 911 has ever happened before. |
2nd August 2011, 07:37 PM | #2 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
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Well, you've basically reinvented the "LIHOP" position - they "Let It Happen On Purpose".
And the problem with LIHOP is the same, albeit less intense, as with all other 9/11 alternative theories: there's really no evidence for it, even thought there really should be. For instance, you talk about "tons of needle in a hay stack warnings at first", and "areal pattern progressed before the attacks". If they knew about this pattern prior to the attacks, and chose to ignore it, how did they know about it? Well, Bush et al. weren't field operatives or analysts, were they? They would have had to been told by someone in one of the Three Letter Agencies about this threat. Why hasn't that person (or persons, there would almost certainly have to be more than one) come forward to rat them out? Do you really think someone who has spent their lives working in counter-terrorist investigations would just roll over because some political hack wanted to let the attacks happen for their own personal gain? |
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2nd August 2011, 07:58 PM | #3 |
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I don't "think" anything regarding a specific conclusion, I was just wondering if it was even probable that we may have not have been told everything regarding the extent of the foreknowledge. I appreciate your input because I agree it cannot really be proven either way, I just wanted to know if there was any legitimate root or any reason for the questioning of the "Official Story", that's all.
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3rd August 2011, 12:04 AM | #4 |
Illuminator
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The term foreknowledge implies that someone had put things together enough to know what was being planned and when. Seeing as no one agency had all of the pieces that were put together after 9/11 to give a good picture as to what was happening in the weeks and months leading up to the crime pretty much makes what you're suggesting nearly impossible.
It's easy to backtrack and see where you went wrong or to see something in a completely different light when you know the outcome because it's already happened but it's an entirely different animal when you don't know where the information might lead you or even if it will lead anywhere at all. Multiply that by the thousands of different bits of information received daily (most of it either false or having nothing at all to do with the attacks being planned) spread out over at least 3 agencies (CIA, NSA and FBI) that were intentionally hobbled by laws passed by the previous administration that prevented them from sharing that data and I think it would be a miracle if someone HAD put it all together before 9/11. That being said I personally think that there was some lying going on after the fact by people trying to cover their asses or to make it seem like they were doing more than what they were. That's just basic human nature and I'd be surprised if it didn't happen to some degree given how many people and agencies were involved. That doesn't mean that there was a huge coverup or vast conspiracy within the government. As far as people profiting off of it, of course there were (and still are) people who exploited the situation for their own personal benefit and enrichment. That happens in every war and has ever since organized warfare has been around and the generals had to arm and feed their troops. That's nothing new and the fact that people still do it today is indicative of nothing other than the well known fact that people will get greedy and take whatever they can when given the opportunity. |
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3rd August 2011, 02:32 AM | #5 |
lorcutus.tolere
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It's an interesting question, and as others have pointed out, in some ways it actually makes the conspiracy wider in scope as it relies on multiple administrations and a large number of Government agencies deliberately failing to prevent an attack they knew was going to happen, whilst simultaneously making enough effort to make it look like they were at least trying.
The problem with this sort of theory is that it isn't the President or the Director of the CIA who actually solves crimes, gathers intelligence, prevents attacks, or guards the country. Those upper level people just guide big-picture policy, but the people who do the actual work are the FBI field agents, the CIA agents, the NSA translators, the customs officers, and so forth. The LIHOP scenario relies on those few upper level people being able to totally control all of those field agents, which just isn't plausible. Secondly, I want to address a point you raise about exploiting the attack for nefarious purposes. I think, actually, there's pretty substantial evidence that the government did exactly that, and I think that very fact itself undermines a LIHOP theory. The immediate response to 9/11 was the Afghanistan War, but the US commitment to Afghanistan in the beginning was lukewarm to say the least. It was soon apparent to anyone with half a brain that the US Government didn't actually want to be in Afghanistan, but felt like they had to. Then, a couple of years later, we get the invasion of Iraq, cobbled to a very flimsy association with the "War on Terror" (i.e. riding on the coat tails of 9/11), and yet the US dedication to the Iraq War was enormous. Simply compare the opening US military operations of the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars. They speak volumes for how enthusiastic the administration was about each endeavour. Further evidence lies in how badly Afghanistan was neglected after the Iraq War started (allowing for the resurgence of the Taliban which has thus mired the country in warfare ever since). I think it's pretty clear that the US government wrongly exploited the 9/11 attacks to further a pre-existing agenda against Iraq. However, the long delay between 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq, and the fact that they half-heartedly waged another war in the interim, to me is strong evidence that the exploitation of 9/11 for their own agenda was a response after the fact and not a pre-planned move based on forewarning or even deliberate maneuvering to make the attack happen. |
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3rd August 2011, 03:09 AM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The way I hear this phrased usually is something along the lines of "How did they draw up the Patriot Act in two weeks?" or however long it took. The answer of course is that they asked hundreds of attorneys who were not billing by the hour to write up their wish lists.
Let me put it this way. If somebody promised you everything you could wish for, do you think you could come up with 100 pages of details inside of a week all on your own? I guarantee you I could. Indeed, when you think about it that way, it's amazing that they could trim it down to the 1000 pages or so that it ended up comprising. |
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3rd August 2011, 03:41 AM | #7 |
Misanthrope of the Mountains
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If it was really LIHOP then why not make plans to actually foil the attack after it starts? That way you get the huge terrorist threat but you also get to look competent if not damned near omnipotent.
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3rd August 2011, 03:52 AM | #8 |
Botanical Jedi
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If LiHOP was true (and it's not) it would provide an excellent reason to introduce just about any security related law you wanted. And if you had a specific law you wanted to introduce, but couldn't in the pre-attack paradigm (I freaking hate that word but I think it's probably apt there) then specific attacks could be allowed through whilst foiling others, to show that the new powers were necessary.
A common comparison is the reichstag fire. It's a bad one, but what else would truthers use? |
3rd August 2011, 04:54 AM | #9 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The merry morons were not capable of such complex planning. They couldn't even plant half-assed-convincing evidence that Saddam was planning to give a couple of us a wedgy.
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3rd August 2011, 08:36 AM | #10 |
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3rd August 2011, 08:38 AM | #11 |
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3rd August 2011, 09:34 AM | #12 |
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I will be content with an initial charge of LIHOP.
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3rd August 2011, 11:52 AM | #13 |
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3rd August 2011, 12:01 PM | #14 |
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3rd August 2011, 02:10 PM | #15 |
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Or at least, foil some part of it. Put a few air marshals on one of the planes, so they can "Save the Day!" and prove that we need more government oversight. "Tsk tsk, if only we'd had these guys on every flight..." Instead, they had a situation where the only people who did anything at all to interrupt the hijackers' plans were the random collection of regular people on Flight 93. Which pretty much made the whole law enforcement and defense establishment look pretty useless. Which is exactly what you don't want just prior to trying to convince everyone to accept more government. |
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3rd August 2011, 11:45 PM | #16 |
lorcutus.tolere
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