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24th July 2008, 08:13 PM | #1 |
New Blood
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Wtc 7
I am a citizen exploring claims contrary to the mainstream ones regarding the event of 9/11 - although most I find serious fault with. Today, a professor stated during a discussion on the matter that WTC 7 was "imploded" and that Silverstein had made a statement to the media compounding this fact. The conversation then turned: since it takes a "long time" to rig a building for demolishing, the "devices" had to be put in place in advance... perhaps during the time the bomb sniffing dogs were pulled from the WTC complex...Also, the prof. said that various media had reported the collapse of WTC 7 before the collapse occurred...
Now, those are the points the prof. raised. It is my understanding, though, that WTC 7 collapsed due to extensive damage following the collapse of the other two main towers...and that the bomb sniffing dogs had been on site earlier due to unrelated threats that had been phoned in...apparently the threats stopped and so the dogs were pulled out..but I don't remember where I read this...and I want to go back to class with facts and sources(which he did not have with him). So, I've decided to reach out for some input, if I might. |
24th July 2008, 08:36 PM | #2 |
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24th July 2008, 08:39 PM | #3 |
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first thing you should tell your professor is to get a refund from whatever college he attended.
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24th July 2008, 08:42 PM | #4 |
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You had time in a summer school class to talk about the WTC 7 collapse? Man, things have changed since I was in school.
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24th July 2008, 09:00 PM | #5 |
NWO Master Conspirator
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This was a professor of what subject?
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Vive la liberté! |
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24th July 2008, 09:00 PM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
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http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=74652 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=74735 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=75126 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=75831 In the above, I know, are hundreds of resources and discussions on WTC7 and all things 9/11 CT. When you have read through IT ALL, if you still have questions, let me know. TAM |
24th July 2008, 09:05 PM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Forget the professor, go find Maryann and Ginger and get off the damn island.
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24th July 2008, 09:12 PM | #8 |
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this is not entirely true, security had been on heightened alert (12 hour shifts) for 2 weeks before 9/11 (due to phoned in threats) and had returned to normal the week before
the normal complement of bomb sniffing dogs were still on duty up to and on 9/11, in fact one died when the towers collapsed (google sirius+wtc) |
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24th July 2008, 09:52 PM | #9 |
New Blood
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First, thanks for the replies, and links. In reply to the ad hominem comments...the guy actually is bright, in certain ways...which I understand sounds apologist-esque...but he seems kind and learned...and the 9/11 topic came up in discussion regarding "false flag terrorism." Read into that what you will.
As I said prior, I am having a hard time buying into the whole "inside job" bit...I mean, if a gov goes through the trouble of engineering a ploy to KILL 3000 of its own constituency then why would they let us uncover it? Hasn't anybody watched X Files ? Also, there's just so much at stake if something like an "inside job" was exposed...too much, I would think. Just my thoughts. I didn't have time to get a word in during class. Anyhow, back OT, has anybody watched "A Great Conspiracy"? It features Barrie Zweiker, (or something like that), and was the basis for our class discussion. I cringed the whole way through...well, most of the way. No, probably the whole way. |
24th July 2008, 10:07 PM | #10 |
New Blood
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So...I found the video - where silverstein "admits" to having the building demolished - that my professor referred to and silverstein says "we made the decision to pull it."
Um...is "pull" code for demolishing a building? I thought it referred to the firefighters pulling out...and then there's this alternate theory about "pull" referring to the use of cables to pull down a building so that it falls in the right place... But IS "pull" some sort of code in the demolishing business? I mean, you google "pull" and "demolition" and get 9/11 CT sites right back...so... |
24th July 2008, 10:17 PM | #11 |
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What the hell is the world coming to when people that are suposdely educated can spew crap like, "Silverstein said WTC7 was a CD because he said to pull it."
OP, I don't know if you know this or not but it is completely obvious that he meant to pull fire fighters from the building. Furthmore, he wasn't even in a position to make such a decision. It mas made by FDNY Cheif Daniel Nigro (he was in charge of the entire operations that day and and came upon that position only because his boss died when the towers collapsed) because it was apparent to him that the building would collapse and he wanted to prevent any further loss of life. He was right, and thanks to his decision, nobody died when WTC7 collapsed. Silverstein only agreed with this assement. This is apparent to anybody that has done any honest research on the subject. Anybody that spews the Silverstein said pull it crap is either a liar or a very incompetant researcher. I have no idea which category your professor falls into. If any professor that I had brought up this BS, I would have called him on it and made him look like a fool. What sort of course was this anyway? |
24th July 2008, 10:25 PM | #12 |
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I didn't see this before I responded before. But "pull it" is never used in the demolition buisiness as a term for using explosives to bring a building down. Sometimes a building is pulled down by attaching cables to columns and pulling it. This happend with one of the WTC buildings (I forget which one, I think 5 or 6) sometime after 9/11. But that building was much smaller than WTC7 and it is impossible to demolish a building the size of WTC7 in such a matter.
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24th July 2008, 10:33 PM | #13 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I recommend making flyers about 7 that debunk his super stupid rant, and put them in the room without getting caught. See if he ""esplodes"" in front of the class.
Who has the guts to turn in this guy who spews lies about 9/11? If he was smart, he would not be teaching lies. |
24th July 2008, 10:37 PM | #14 |
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Actually, it wasn't Nigro who spoke to Silverstein. From another thread: Did Chief Nigro call Silverstein? The answer is finally available |
24th July 2008, 10:52 PM | #15 |
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Audesapre, I suggest you take TAM's advice at post #6 and familiarise yourself with the information in the links he posted. It'll give you a better overall understanding of what happened. Once you've done that I'm sure people will be happy to answer any questions you have. Also, the BBC recently screened a documentary about WTC7 and the CTs surrounding it. It is discussed in this thread. |
24th July 2008, 10:56 PM | #16 |
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...62020229593250
Here is the BBC WTC7 show. Recommended. It will make all rational people not to believe in a demolition. |
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24th July 2008, 11:01 PM | #17 |
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yes your professor is bright. I see plenty of bright people living in cardboard boxes and talking to themselves while claiming aliens are eating their brains. Yes I know they seem crazy, but they really are well spoke when not eating their boogers.
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24th July 2008, 11:02 PM | #18 |
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This thread is an excellent example of why the aural history of debunking and critical thinking must be carried on.
I find it quite distressing that a college professor is promoting these claims, but while Ward Churchill is sill fogging the mirror, I suppose anything is possible. Audesapre, instead of looking to counter the claims with specific details, learn to ask for evidence and logical connections. It is a skill that is used in root cause failure analysis. Look into that if you can as part of a curriculum of instruction. It is how technical and law enforcement entities examine a failure and figure out its cause. The gist of RCFA is to ask a series of who, what, why, how questions. The beauty of this line of questioning is that is does not require any specific knowlege on the part of the questioner. Just technique and knowledge of the process. If you know RCFA techniques, you can find out who killed Kennedy or who smashed your holloween pumpkin. It is all the same technique. Lets taken one small example. Your prof said that bomb sniffing dogs were pulled off the case. How do you know that prof? Who told you? What evidence do you have to support that claim? Is there an alternative explanation? Make him support the wild accusations. Just dont take them at face value. |
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24th July 2008, 11:04 PM | #19 |
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24th July 2008, 11:07 PM | #20 |
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25th July 2008, 12:53 AM | #21 |
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25th July 2008, 01:00 AM | #22 |
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25th July 2008, 01:48 AM | #23 |
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A professor of what ?
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25th July 2008, 04:12 AM | #24 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Woo!
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25th July 2008, 04:34 AM | #25 |
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The verb "pull" and nearly any grammatical variation using pronouns and prepositions is indeed used in the demolition industry. In CD bldgs can be pulled away from other bldgs, they can be pulled down, and facades can be literally pulled with cables.
Here is just one example: . "In a flurry of flashes and booms, the Kingdome... rumbled to the ground Sunday in 16.8 spectacular seconds. More than 4,450 pounds of dynamite, unleashed over a span of tiny delays, blitzed one of the world's largest concrete domes -- one day shy of its 24th birthday. "The roof did its job, the gravity engine worked. It provided the energy we needed to pull the columns inward," said Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition Inc., the Maryland-based company whose handiwork brought down the Dome. |
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25th July 2008, 04:50 AM | #26 |
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Sniff, Sniff, Sniff
All right, who stepped in it and didn't wipe their shoes off? |
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No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post |
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25th July 2008, 05:15 AM | #27 |
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25th July 2008, 05:25 AM | #28 |
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"Pull" is used everywhere, in business or at leisure - on the playground during Tug-O-War, by mechanics repairing an automobile engine, instructions with what to do with my finger, etc., etc., etc. In the context re: the word "pull" in this thread, it was NOT an instruction to destroy a building. |
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25th July 2008, 05:27 AM | #29 |
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25th July 2008, 05:37 AM | #30 |
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25th July 2008, 05:39 AM | #31 |
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Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. |
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25th July 2008, 05:57 AM | #32 |
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25th July 2008, 06:08 AM | #33 |
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Why is it that this supposedly organized classroom discussion is something you believe happened? What we have here is a guy asking a bunch of questions that is either a truther or a real live fencesitter (which doesn't exist in 2008) that has been tainted by a HUGE volume of idiotic truther balony.
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25th July 2008, 06:11 AM | #34 |
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25th July 2008, 06:12 AM | #35 |
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Vive la liberté! |
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25th July 2008, 06:18 AM | #36 |
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25th July 2008, 07:38 AM | #37 |
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TAM, thank you. Audesapre, in addition to the above, http://911myths.com tackles the specific points you brought up. Regarding the supposed premature pulling out of the dogs:
http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_bom...fing_dogs.html
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In regards to the Silverstein "Pull It" quote: http://911myths.com/html/wtc7_pulled.html Believe it or not, demolitionists will use the term pull to describe the process where they collapse a structure with cables and mechanical force. That's because it's the most obvious description of the process: A machine "pulls" on a cable to collapse a structure. And it is in fact what was done to WTC 6, I think (I'll have to go look it up again at some point), and is also where some conspiracy peddlers make the leap from "pull" being used in the most obvious sense (the machines "pulling" the cables) to it being used in a most tortured sense. I've seen fantasists point at a video of one of the workers at Ground Zero describing the need to "pull WTC 6" as an argument that pull is indeed an industry term. When you watch that video, you actually see the machinery and cable being used, which leaves me wondering how they justify using that as an argument validating their accusation against Silverstein. It's a leap to think that "pull" is actually a specific "term" in the industry; the context of that video shows that the word is being used in its denotative sense, not as some slang-speak or insider terminology. ---- Anyway, the links T.A.M gave above, plus sites like 911 Myths, http://debunking911.com and a few others, are good resources to start learning about 9/11. I don't doubt that the professor in question is a decent guy, as you describe him, but fallacy is fallacy, and unfortunately, this prof is subscribing to fallacies. If he's at all intellectually honest, then the information out there at sites like the ones provided will help him see the truth. |
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25th July 2008, 07:55 AM | #38 |
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Why can't a fencesitter exist in 2008? On what date did the existence of fencesitters become impossible? And if there aren't any left any more - and presumably never will be any again from this date forth - doesn't that mean we can just close this subforum down completely? What is the point of it, if not to provide fencesitters with information they aren't getting from conspiraloons?
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25th July 2008, 08:03 AM | #39 |
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After 7 years you will be either a truther moron, not a truther moron or totally apathetic. I challenge you to find me an honest to goodness fencesitter and show me some kind of evidence that they are.
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25th July 2008, 08:19 AM | #40 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Here's one:
Seriously Engima, it's entirely possible for people to have not cared about it until brought up, for example in a class like this. Not everyone is either insane or has been dedicated to researching things for years. Now, please stop with the attacks and keep on topic. |
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