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Tags controlled demolition , wtc 7

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Old 13th March 2009, 04:48 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by roundhead View Post
I have read their lame excuses to try and justify the demolition of the building as fire induced. They fail at that horribly.
So, when did the perpetrators place the charges - before or after the collapse of the towers?
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Old 14th March 2009, 03:40 AM   #282
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Wtc7

If WTC7 WAS actually pre-rigged with explosives/incendiaries, does that tell us anything significant apart from the Twin Towers and WTC7 having something else in common other than the unexpected collapses ?. No ?. Well what did they have that was different ? The outstanding difference has to be that Seven was not hit by a plane.
Suppose you square the circle by speculating that WTC7 was SUPPOSED to have been hit by a plane but that it didn't happen for some reason. ?
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Old 14th March 2009, 03:52 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
If WTC7 WAS actually pre-rigged with explosives/incendiaries, does that tell us anything significant apart from the Twin Towers and WTC7 having something else in common other than the unexpected collapses ?. No ?. Well what do they have that is different ? The outstanding difference has to be that Seven was not hit by a plane.
Suppose you square te circle by speculating that WTC7 was SUPPOSED to have been hit by a plane but that it didn't happen for some reason. ?
That sure is a dumb statement. You don’t understand 911 so you make up delusions about it. Why do you want to apologize for terrorist by making up lies?
The big difference is WTC7 burned for how long? With you vast lack of research and knowledge, an un-fought office building fire does what? Destroys the building. On 911 WTC7 fire systems had no water to fight the fire, the firemen had suffered many deaths, and they did not fight the fire in WTC7. Many building have been destroyed by fire, you choose to support the idiotic ideas of 911Truth instead of learning about structures, fires, and steel; you ignore evidence and skip finding knowledge. Good luck with your delusions as you disrespect everyone who died on 911 by making excuses for terrorists with not a single piece of evidence or from a position of knowledge. And you blame other people for the work of terrorist; you blame people you can’t name for what terrorists did. Good for you! You were the target of terrorist and now you gladly apologize for them.

No blast effect, no thermite products, no real clue from 911Truth with zero evidence a bleak future for the kool-aid drinking 911Truth believers.

Why do you lack evidence?

There comes a time when your apologizes for terrorist become betrayal – now.

Last edited by beachnut; 14th March 2009 at 04:05 AM. Reason: balsamo sounds just like this guy, spewing dumber than dirt ideas about 911
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Old 14th March 2009, 09:37 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
That sure is a dumb statement. You don’t understand 911 so you make up delusions about it. Why do you want to apologize for terrorist by making up lies?
The big difference is WTC7 burned for how long? With you vast lack of research and knowledge, an un-fought office building fire does what? Destroys the building. On 911 WTC7 fire systems had no water to fight the fire, the firemen had suffered many deaths, and they did not fight the fire in WTC7. Many building have been destroyed by fire, you choose to support the idiotic ideas of 911Truth instead of learning about structures, fires, and steel; you ignore evidence and skip finding knowledge. Good luck with your delusions as you disrespect everyone who died on 911 by making excuses for terrorists with not a single piece of evidence or from a position of knowledge. And you blame other people for the work of terrorist; you blame people you can’t name for what terrorists did. Good for you! You were the target of terrorist and now you gladly apologize for them.

No blast effect, no thermite products, no real clue from 911Truth with zero evidence a bleak future for the kool-aid drinking 911Truth believers.

Why do you lack evidence?

There comes a time when your apologizes for terrorist become betrayal – now.
There are some bits and pieces that support the notion of a third plane in New York on 9/11. Even the fact that the EOM in WTC7 was empty of people but had still steaming coffee and half-eaten sandwiches on the desks when Barry Jennings got there around 9 am may mean that the occupants rushed away thinking that the second plane was about to hit WTC7 nstead of the second Tower. People usually finish their coffee or sandwich even if they are in a hurry. This sounds more like a panic evcuation.
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Last edited by bill smith; 14th March 2009 at 09:42 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 14th March 2009, 09:44 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
There are some bits and pieces that support the notion of a third plane in New York on 9/11. Even the fact that the EOM in WTC7 was empty of people but had still steaming coffee and half-eaten sandwiches on the desks when Barry Jennings got there around 9 am may mean that the occupants rushed away thinking that the second plane was about to hit WTC7 nstead of thee second Tower. People usually finish their coffee or sandwich even if they are in a hurry. This sounds more like a panic evcuation.
So some stale sandwiches and leftover coffee and we're off to the races reading peoples minds and understanding their motivations.

Do you do tea leafs too?
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Old 14th March 2009, 10:09 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
So some stale sandwiches and leftover coffee and we're off to the races reading peoples minds and understanding their motivations.

Do you do tea leafs too?
No....the coffee and sandwiches were still fresh. Why would you say that they were stale ? What a peculiar thing to say. Coffee that still has steam coming off it is hot and fresh, so we can assume that the half-eaten sandwiches were just as fresh. Even if omebody has to run for a train or something they will usually finish their andwich on the hoof, but maybe not if they thought they were running for their life to escape a plane they had been told was about to crash into the building.
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Last edited by bill smith; 14th March 2009 at 10:20 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 14th March 2009, 10:10 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by roundhead View Post
No they arent....

Otherwise why would trained and experienced firefighters be way up in a building and got caught(and died)fighting smallish fires.
If they had even a small inkling the building was going to come down, they would never had gone up there.......(WTC)
Interesting the roundhead acknowledges firefighter training and experience when it suits his argument, but will reject the fact that not a single firefighter on the scene at WTC7 supports the position that anything other than fire or damage caused that building to collapse.

I guess at WTC7 all that training and experience went out the window.

But then again, roundhead has characterized the FDNY as a bunch of cowards, so I'm not sure how much credence we should give his opinions on firefighters.
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Old 14th March 2009, 10:24 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
No....the coffee and sandwiches were still fresh. Why would you say that they were stale ? What a peculiar thing to say. Coffee that still has steam coming off it hot and fresh, so we can asume that the half-eaten sandwiches were just as fresh. Even if omebody has to run for a train or something they will usually finish their andwich on the hoof, but maybe not if they thought they were running for their life to escape a plane they had been told was about to crash into the building.
There were warnings more planes were in the air. Proves nothing though.
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Old 14th March 2009, 10:38 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
There were warnings more planes were in the air. Proves nothing though.
I didn't say it did. Speculation....remember ? But just think how neat it could all have been ? Three buildings , three planes and no messing about like being unexpectedly forced nto perfrming a controlled demolition of WTC7....and making such a mess of it that it's still likely to hang the perpetrators of 9/11.
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Old 14th March 2009, 11:14 AM   #290
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This video opens with a smoke generator that was caught on video in WTC2 I believe. The video moves on through all three collapses ending with the demise of WTC7. Note that when Seven collapses a crack appears momentarily on the North face running vertically for many floors. This looks exactly as if a portion of the support structure inside did not fall away or burn through quite quickly enough causing the crack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY all 3 buildings
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Old 14th March 2009, 11:30 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I didn't say it did. Speculation....remember ? But just think how neat it could all have been ? Three buildings , three planes and no messing about like being unexpectedly forced nto perfrming a controlled demolition of WTC7....and making such a mess of it that it's still likely to hang the perpetrators of 9/11.
There is speculation informed by facts and science. Then there is stupid, baseless, made-up *****. Guess which category your rants fall all into.
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Old 14th March 2009, 12:16 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
No....the coffee and sandwiches were still fresh. Why would you say that they were stale ? What a peculiar thing to say. Coffee that still has steam coming off it is hot and fresh, so we can assume that the half-eaten sandwiches were just as fresh. Even if omebody has to run for a train or something they will usually finish their andwich on the hoof, but maybe not if they thought they were running for their life to escape a plane they had been told was about to crash into the building.
I find it odd that you can tell their motivation by the food they left behind.

Who told them the plane was coming? Has anyone ever said they were told a plane was coming?

You are building sand castles without sand.
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Old 14th March 2009, 12:32 PM   #293
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Coffee Cups and sandwiches and the delusiuons of Troofer Morons

Sometimes when I leave the house I forget to grab my coffee travel mug and leave it on the top of the newell post of the stairs. This alarms my wife when she gets home because clearly that must mean theres a plane gonna hit my house while im hiding at work.
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Old 15th March 2009, 07:58 AM   #294
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I am not sure if you guys caught this obscure comment, but...

Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
This video opens with a smoke generator that was caught on video in WTC2 I believe. The video moves on through all three collapses ending with the demise of WTC7.
<snip>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY all 3 buildings
... billy really believes that some nefarious person actually moved smoke generating machines into various locations. Especially into WTC7.

This is all self-evident to him. Somehow. And backed up with all the rigor & objective evidence that was demonstrated in his "If WTC7 was pre-rigged with explosives ..." question.

He's ever so insightful ...

tom
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Old 15th March 2009, 08:01 AM   #295
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bill smith are you for real? I suspect you're actually on our side on this issue. Nobody could do a better job of making the truth movement look like idiots. In fact, I think you're Harry from accounting down the hallway from my office here at NWO towers. Harry? Is that you? If it is just poke your head above your cubicle. You're BRILLIANT!
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Old 15th March 2009, 08:22 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I didn't say it did. Speculation....remember ? But just think how neat it could all have been ? Three buildings , three planes and no messing about like being unexpectedly forced nto perfrming a controlled demolition of WTC7....and making such a mess of it that it's still likely to hang the perpetrators of 9/11.
Speculate away, its all you've got. Sucks eh?
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Old 15th March 2009, 08:27 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
This video opens with a smoke generator that was caught on video in WTC2 I believe. The video moves on through all three collapses ending with the demise of WTC7. Note that when Seven collapses a crack appears momentarily on the North face running vertically for many floors. This looks exactly as if a portion of the support structure inside did not fall away or burn through quite quickly enough causing the crack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY all 3 buildings

Not a smoke generator, get real.

Also some very good footage of the core still standing in the second collapse (about 2:38). yet another nail in the CD fantasy. Well done for posting that Bill.

ETA The crack in WTC7 is the windows popping out.
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Old 15th March 2009, 02:26 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
I am not sure if you guys caught this obscure comment, but...



... billy really believes that some nefarious person actually moved smoke generating machines into various locations. Especially into WTC7.

This is all self-evident to him. Somehow. And backed up with all the rigor & objective evidence that was demonstrated in his "If WTC7 was pre-rigged with explosives ..." question.

He's ever so insightful ...

tom
Hello there

Remember elsewhere that you said that he smoke did not come from either a smoke generator or from a burst pipe ? I've forgotten the reason that you DID give so would you mind explaining again where the smoke was coming from ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY All three Towers
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Old 15th March 2009, 02:48 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
bill smith are you for real? I suspect you're actually on our side on this issue. Nobody could do a better job of making the truth movement look like idiots. In fact, I think you're Harry from accounting down the hallway from my office here at NWO towers. Harry? Is that you? If it is just poke your head above your cubicle. You're BRILLIANT!
I agree with you! He expects us to forget that there was a 6 storey complex underground that would funnel smoke all kinds of places. This one has to be a "dis-creditor".
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Old 15th March 2009, 02:59 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Hello there

Remember elsewhere that you said that he smoke did not come from either a smoke generator or from a burst pipe ? I've forgotten the reason that you DID give so would you mind explaining again where the smoke was coming from ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY All three Towers
Buildings full of smoke and dust collapsed.

Nobody heard any man-made demolition.

None of the smoke appeared until after a collapse commenced. That's not how man-made demolition works.
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Old 15th March 2009, 03:26 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by audesapre View Post
I am a citizen exploring claims contrary to the mainstream ones regarding the event of 9/11 - although most I find serious fault with. Today, a professor stated during a discussion on the matter that WTC 7 was "imploded" and that Silverstein had made a statement to the media compounding this fact. The conversation then turned: since it takes a "long time" to rig a building for demolishing, the "devices" had to be put in place in advance... perhaps during the time the bomb sniffing dogs were pulled from the WTC complex...Also, the prof. said that various media had reported the collapse of WTC 7 before the collapse occurred...

Now, those are the points the prof. raised. It is my understanding, though, that WTC 7 collapsed due to extensive damage following the collapse of the other two main towers...and that the bomb sniffing dogs had been on site earlier due to unrelated threats that had been phoned in...apparently the threats stopped and so the dogs were pulled out..but I don't remember where I read this...and I want to go back to class with facts and sources(which he did not have with him).

So, I've decided to reach out for some input, if I might.
The OP; asked for information, not more woo.

It turns out morons made up the implosion ideas based on ignorance, hearsay, lies and delusions.

Those who lack knowledge and fail to try to improve their lot make up lies, believe in delusions and can’t believe fire destroys building.
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Old 15th March 2009, 04:37 PM   #302
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Sorry, must redo calcs then repost.

MF

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Old 15th March 2009, 05:11 PM   #303
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Inneresting, alienentity. I don't have the video capability to test this.

Looks like the standard height of the upper floors was 12'9", except for the belt truss floors. I don't know about the mechanical floors at the top though. See page 21 here:
John Salvarinas: "Seven World Trade Center, New York, Fabrication and Construction Aspects" (PDF)
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Old 15th March 2009, 05:19 PM   #304
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I just have one question.

Why is the zombie thread still going? *runs away from the zombie thread*

(forgive me; I desperately need some humor in my life right now due to family issues and I'm trying to find it wherever I can; carry on.)
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Old 15th March 2009, 05:24 PM   #305
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Sabrina! Nice to see you. Hope the family stuff works out OK. We'll be here, waiting for zombies to show.
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Old 15th March 2009, 05:27 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
(forgive me; I desperately need some humor in my life right now due to family issues and I'm trying to find it wherever I can; carry on.)
Carrying on in the face of family issues ROCKS!
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Old 15th March 2009, 05:38 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Inneresting, alienentity. I don't have the video capability to test this.

Looks like the standard height of the upper floors was 12'9", except for the belt truss floors. I don't know about the mechanical floors at the top though. See page 21 here:
John Salvarinas: "Seven World Trade Center, New York, Fabrication and Construction Aspects" (PDF)
thx, I also had forgotten part of the calc anyway, so my timing was wrong.
My apologies.

But in any case I obviously calculated too great a distance for the drop. It was less - I will have to find more accurate info.

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Old 16th March 2009, 12:53 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Hello there

Remember elsewhere that you said that he smoke did not come from either a smoke generator or from a burst pipe ? I've forgotten the reason that you DID give so would you mind explaining again where the smoke was coming from ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY All three Towers
Fires.
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Old 16th March 2009, 01:19 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Fires.
Hello again,

What do you think was pushing the smoke out the window in such a steady stream ?
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Old 16th March 2009, 01:30 PM   #310
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I say it must have been smoke machines. It's the only explanation
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Old 16th March 2009, 01:30 PM   #311
johnny karate
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bill, what role do you think the FDNY played in your "smoke generator" scenario?
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Old 16th March 2009, 01:36 PM   #312
bill smith
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
bill, what role do you think the FDNY played in your "smoke generator" scenario?
I'm afraid I don't know.
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Old 16th March 2009, 01:44 PM   #313
DavidJames
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
I say it must have been smoke machines. It's the only explanation
Another example of why it makes no sense to try and make parodies of 9/11 CT's. There simply is no need, they are themselves, parodies.
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Old 16th March 2009, 01:46 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Sabrina! Nice to see you. Hope the family stuff works out OK. We'll be here, waiting for zombies to show.
When they do, remember to aim for the head.
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Old 16th March 2009, 01:48 PM   #315
T.A.M.
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Hello again,

What do you think was pushing the smoke out the window in such a steady stream ?
cross draft.

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Old 16th March 2009, 02:15 PM   #316
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I'm afraid I don't know.
I'll rephrase. There are no reports from anyone in the FDNY claiming they witnessed "smoke generators". Don't you therefore find it fatal to any theory involving "smoke generators" that hundreds of fire professionals failed to notice their use taking place right in front of them? If not, why?
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Old 16th March 2009, 02:15 PM   #317
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Hi all,

I'm still doing research on the collapse for my next video. Read through the rest of the NIST report etc...

Out of curiosity I checked into the Landmark building demolition in Texas. Here's a bit of background:

At 380 feet (116 metres) tall this was the tallest building to be demolished in Texas and the 15th tallest building in the United States to be demolished at that time.
- The Landmark Tower was imploded on Saturday, March 18, 2006 at 7:42 am.

Ok, I got a copy of the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ
Loaded it into Final Cut Pro, and proceeded to find the start of collapse - I chose the big explosions at the base (hey, the flashes are so easy to see, very convenient) preceding the collapse (T=0), following it as far as I could see things still dropping. There's a lot of dust obscuring the final moments. My final estimate is T=7 - 8 seconds

Freefall for 116 metres is 4.86 sec
Observed collapse was in the 7sec range.

a=4.73 m/s2 for the overall collapse. About 50% the rate of freefall.

So it isn't clear at all from this evidence that freefall collapse is proof of controlled demolition.
In fact it's exceedingly unclear to me how one could engineer 7 floors of WTC7 to simultaneously collapse without requiring large and very noticeable demolition charges. Since there is no evidence of such charges going off, logic dictates that the mechanism was something along the lines that NIST postulates.

Thermite also fails completely to explain a simultaneous global collapse, since it couldn't conceivably have acted in such an instantaneous fashion applied to PART of an already ongoing collapse.

Note: in both the WTC7 and WTC 1 and 2 cases global collapse - at whatever speed you like - was already underway without requiring explosives. As Leslie Robertson (head SE of the towers) pointed out, once the upper block of floors was falling, nothing could have stopped the towers from collapsing.
With WTC7, once column 79 failed, exposing Truss 1 to the impact of 30+ floors of collapsing debris, it would have taken a miracle to stop the rest of the E-W failure of trusses and columns. Perhaps the best-case scenario might have been the survival of Truss 3, holding up 1/4 of the building.
Is it surprising that the whole building went down given the events? No. Very, very unusual and rare, but then 9-11 was an extremely rare event, unlikely to happen again.

However, to the skeptical, non-paranoid mind, a rare occurrence is not proof of a government plot. Those who wish to blame George W. Bush ( a surprisingly incompetent leader, if you'll excuse my judgement) forget that he had been in office less than 8 months when the attacks occurred. Considering the immense effort to plan and execute an enormous conspiracy as the 'Truthers' allege, it would be equally necessary for the Clinton administration to have initiated the efforts - how else? Even the development and testing of special silent explosives, and nano-thermite horizontal cutting devices would surely have required multi-year efforts.

Why isn't Bill Clinton being vilified for this alleged war crime? He's as guilty as Bush is.


Last edited by alienentity; 16th March 2009 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 16th March 2009, 02:19 PM   #318
bill smith
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I'll rephrase. There are no reports from anyone in the FDNY claiming they witnessed "smoke generators". Don't you therefore find it fatal to any theory involving "smoke generators" that hundreds of fire professionals failed to notice their use taking place right in front of them? If not, why?
I can only speak to the evidence of my own eyes which tell me i am looking at a mechanical smoke generator. I can't speak for what the firefighters and others might or might not have seen Johnny.
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Old 16th March 2009, 02:20 PM   #319
T.A.M.
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come on? are we seriously, discussing "smoke generators"?

really?

on that note, I am out of this thread, until it lands somewhere near reality.

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Old 16th March 2009, 02:39 PM   #320
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I can only speak to the evidence of my own eyes which tell me i am looking at a mechanical smoke generator. I can't speak for what the firefighters and others might or might not have seen Johnny.
This supposed "evidence" does not exist in a vacuum. What about the eyes of hundreds of fire professionals experienced in observing smoke dynamics who were in position to see this phenomena firsthand? None of them corroborate your theory. Why do you feel your after the fact, layperson's opinion trumps theirs?
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