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Tags controlled demolition , wtc 7

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Old 16th March 2009, 02:48 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
This supposed "evidence" does not exist in a vacuum. What about the eyes of hundreds of fire professionals experienced in observing smoke dynamics who were in position to see this phenomena firsthand? None of them corroborate your theory. Why do you feel your after the fact, layperson's opinion trumps theirs?
As I said, it looks like a smoke generator to me Johnny. It does not resemble smoke being blown out of a broken window which is the prevailing theory in certain quarters I believe. For me my own eyes are what I go by. Don't you think it looks like a smoke generator ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY
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Old 16th March 2009, 03:10 PM   #322
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LOL

"what it looks like" and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee, bill. So. What exactly do YOU expect to have seen then if there weren't your delightfully loony 'smoke generators'?
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Old 16th March 2009, 03:11 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
As I said, it looks like a smoke generator to me Johnny. It does not resemble smoke being blown out of a broken window which is the prevailing theory in certain quarters I believe. For me my own eyes are what I go by. Don't you think it looks like a smoke generator ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY
No. And my opinion is corroborated by every single firefighter who was on the scene. Again, why do feel your opinion trumps theirs?
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Old 16th March 2009, 03:23 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
No. And my opinion is corroborated by every single firefighter who was on the scene. Again, why do feel your opinion trumps theirs?
They saw what they saw and I see what I see Johnny. That's a smoke generator, no error. It seems obvious to me that that smoke is being mechanically pumped out like the smoke from a locomotive. Just a bit faster but in the same pulsed, rolling way. Smoke that being blown out does not look like that. It's only another minor observation but quite n interesting one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY
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Old 16th March 2009, 03:44 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
They saw what they saw and I see what I see Johnny. That's a smoke generator, no error. It seems obvious to me that that smoke is being mechanically pumped out like the smoke from a locomotive. Just a bit faster but in the same pulsed, rolling way. Smoke that being blown out does not look like that. It's only another minor observation but quite n interesting one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY
You're not answering my question: Why do you feel your opinion trumps that of trained professionals who were on the scene?
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Old 16th March 2009, 03:46 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
You're not answering my question: Why do you feel your opinion trumps that of trained professionals who were on the scene?
My eyes tell me what I see. Their silence on the matter does not trump this visual evidence.
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Old 16th March 2009, 03:53 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
My eyes tell me what I see. Their silence on the matter does not trump this visual evidence.
Are you suggesting their silence is meaningful?
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Old 16th March 2009, 03:56 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Are you suggesting their silence is meaningful?
I'm afraid I couldn't say Johnny.
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Old 16th March 2009, 04:03 PM   #329
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nice dodge.
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Old 16th March 2009, 04:04 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I'm afraid I couldn't say Johnny.
Which means you have your doubts. What reason do you have to suspect the FDNY would keep silent about something like this?
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Old 16th March 2009, 04:13 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Which means you have your doubts. What reason do you have to suspect the FDNY would keep silent about something like this?
No....really....I couldn't say. Not on this particular aspect of 9/11 anyway. Though I do have my doubts about the fireman who said that '' WTC7 was fully involved in fire from ground to ceiling, all 47 floors''. I felt that he might have been exaggerating a little.
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Old 16th March 2009, 04:15 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I'm afraid I don't know.
The sum total of all the evidence from 911Truth is revealed. zero
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Old 16th March 2009, 04:34 PM   #333
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You certainly can believe whatever you want, bill. Smoke generators it is then, if that's what it looks like to you. Stay true to yourself, that's what I always say.

Smoke generators ROCK!
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Old 16th March 2009, 04:41 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
You certainly can believe whatever you want, bill. Smoke generators it is then, if that's what it looks like to you. Stay true to yourself, that's what I always say.

Smoke generators ROCK!
Perhaps someday soon a Truther will make a 9/11 presentation on coast-to-coast television. He could do well to finish with that clip asking poeple to call in giving their opinion on what it might be. A kind of 9/11-interactive thing. That sort of approach gets people involved . Not a bad idea. Pass it on please.
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Old 16th March 2009, 05:45 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
No....really....I couldn't say. Not on this particular aspect of 9/11 anyway.

Right. Which means you have your doubts. I merely asked for your opinion, not for you to make a definitive statement of fact (something you seem to have no compunction doing with regards to smoke generators, it seems). Your hesitancy to do so indicates you are suspicious of the FDNY silence on this issue. I want to know why.

Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Though I do have my doubts about the fireman who said that '' WTC7 was fully involved in fire from ground to ceiling, all 47 floors''. I felt that he might have been exaggerating a little.
So we've established that you think the FDNY have been untruthful in their depiction of the events of 9/11. Again, what basis do you have to believe the FDNY is lying or keeping silent about what they experienced on 9/11?
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Old 16th March 2009, 05:49 PM   #336
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so if it looks like smoke from a smoke generator, then IT MUST BE so.

Where is the picture they use to bring out of that animal that looked like one thing, but was actually another?

TAM
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Old 16th March 2009, 05:56 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
They saw what they saw and I see what I see Johnny. That's a smoke generator, no error. It seems obvious to me that that smoke is being mechanically pumped out like the smoke from a locomotive.
Will someone please corroborate for me that this guy actually says:

"smoke generator"

I just wanted to make sure cause my eyes are not 20/20.


...Now I'm sure. Totally sure. 9-11 truth is dead. "Smoke Generator" just convinced me of this.

Last edited by Thunder; 16th March 2009 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 16th March 2009, 07:06 PM   #338
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bill neglects to rub his two remaining brain cells together

Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
As I said, it looks like a smoke generator to me Johnny. It does not resemble smoke being blown out of a broken window which is the prevailing theory in certain quarters I believe. For me my own eyes are what I go by. Don't you think it looks like a smoke generator ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY

Theres a large hole in the side of the tower where the plane entered. very little smoke is exiting it. This means there is air entering it. Bill when you sit in front of a fireplace do you wonder why smoke comes out the top of the chimney and not out the fireplace?
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Old 16th March 2009, 07:10 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
...when you sit in front of a fireplace do you wonder why smoke comes out the top of the chimney and not out the fireplace?
Because the smoke generator is pointing up?
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Old 17th March 2009, 12:13 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Right. Which means you have your doubts. I merely asked for your opinion, not for you to make a definitive statement of fact (something you seem to have no compunction doing with regards to smoke generators, it seems). Your hesitancy to do so indicates you are suspicious of the FDNY silence on this issue. I want to know why.



So we've established that you think the FDNY have been untruthful in their depiction of the events of 9/11. Again, what basis do you have to believe the FDNY is lying or keeping silent about what they experienced on 9/11?
I think the FDNY did a fine job on 9/11. In addition to their tremendous sacrifices I esoecially appreciated the 12,000 pages of sworn testimony they gave in the days and weeks after the events. Some of them, like the 'all 47 floors' guy made statements that are hard to reconcile with the visual reecord but that's not proof of anything. He may have been just exaggerating or mistaken.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4dVo5QgYg Firemen's Testimony- Study
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Old 17th March 2009, 12:37 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
They saw what they saw and I see what I see Johnny. That's a smoke generator, no error. It seems obvious to me that that smoke is being mechanically pumped out like the smoke from a locomotive. Just a bit faster but in the same pulsed, rolling way. Smoke that being blown out does not look like that. It's only another minor observation but quite n interesting one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY
No it doesn't. I've worked with many smoke generators, in about 15 year of acting/tech theatre and none of them look like that. (unless you're basing this argumnt soley on the fact that "smoke" is being pushed out.)
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Old 17th March 2009, 01:20 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
No it doesn't. I've worked with many smoke generators, in about 15 year of acting/tech theatre and none of them look like that. (unless you're basing this argumnt soley on the fact that "smoke" is being pushed out.)
Smoke generators at outdoor rock concerts produce smoke that looks exactly like this. I don't think that many people who see this clip will have many doubts about what they are seeing. I may be wrong but I would love to test it on public broadcast TV with a call-in afterwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY
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Old 17th March 2009, 01:49 AM   #343
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In a vain attempt to prompt some rationality, bill smith, can you show a few videos of real smoke from buildings that were genuinely on fire, then explain exactly how and why they look different to WTC7? Or is that too much like intelligent analysis for your tastes?

Dave
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Old 17th March 2009, 02:16 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
In a vain attempt to prompt some rationality, bill smith, can you show a few videos of real smoke from buildings that were genuinely on fire, then explain exactly how and why they look different to WTC7? Or is that too much like intelligent analysis for your tastes?

Dave
Real fires often appear to produce less smoke than you might expect. Have a look at this video of WTC5 blazing (and incidentally take note that it did not collapse unlike WTC7 which apparently did from much,much smaller fires).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OCQvu7ULQ WTC5
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Old 17th March 2009, 02:30 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Real fires often appear to produce less smoke than you might expect. Have a look at this video of WTC5 blazing (and incidentally take note that it did not collapse unlike WTC7 which apparently did from much,much smaller fires).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OCQvu7ULQ WTC5
WTC5 and 6 had collapses internally due to fire, you are so funny as you lack knowledge and make up cute idiotic statements. BTW, did anyone put water on WTC5?

Do you want to see the internal failures of steel in WTC5 or 6? Are you really this ignorant on fires?
You need to step it up, your apologies for terrorist are weak.


Oops, they save the building by putting water on it; darn you posted a video of firemen fighting WTC5 fire. Not real smart to debunk your own stupid ideas with your own post.



Yeppers, WTC5 is ready to be used right now!!! Wowzer, no fire damage there! Good job expert 911Truth man. Great work. Better sign up for your Pulitzer Prize.

I guess you are not familiar with any of the 10,000 pages of NIST. Sad. Knowledge would save you from displaying piles of ignorance.


Wow, that is a small fire in WTC7, you are right again, you are totally knowledge free on 911. Did you know the firemen knew WTC7 could fall and hour or two before it fell all due to un-fought fires which is always a danger and many times firemen have abandoned fire fighting efforts due to possible collapse. Darn, the things you could learn if you wanted to try stop apologizing for terrorists and think for yourself instead of googling your way through ignorance on 911.

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Old 17th March 2009, 02:36 AM   #346
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Smoke generators in WTC7. LOL. I don't think I've heard that one before. Thank you very much for the laugh, bill.

(Just to be clear, I am laughing in your face bill)
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Old 17th March 2009, 02:39 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Smoke generators in WTC7. LOL. I don't think I've heard that one before. Thank you very much for the laugh, bill.

(Just to be clear, I am laughing in your face bill)
I'm glad you are enjoying the show. I hope you brushed your teeth if you are going to laugh in my face.
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Old 17th March 2009, 02:55 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Real fires often appear to produce less smoke than you might expect. Have a look at this video of WTC5 blazing (and incidentally take note that it did not collapse unlike WTC7 which apparently did from much,much smaller fires).
Could you make a special effort, and come up with a line of argument that doesn't involve lying? The idea that less smoke comes from a smaller building on fire (despite the fact that other conspiracy theorists have argued that all the smoke came from WTC5) is completely irrelevant to your original suggestion that it was the dynamics of the smoke, not the amount, that was suspicious.

It's painfully obvious that your approach to 9/11 is to start by picking a phenomenon at random, claim it's suspect, then invent a flimsy rationalisation for that belief. When someone questions that rationalisation, you simply invent a different one. Nobody's fooled by it.

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Old 17th March 2009, 03:13 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
They saw what they saw and I see what I see Johnny. That's a smoke generator, no error. It seems obvious to me that that smoke is being mechanically pumped out like the smoke from a locomotive. Just a bit faster but in the same pulsed, rolling way. Smoke that being blown out does not look like that. It's only another minor observation but quite n interesting one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY
So now you can just look at smoke and tell what made it? How long have you had this talent?

I'm sure that your untrained eye looking at a video many years after the event is better that all the professionals who were there actually experiencing it.
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Old 17th March 2009, 03:17 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Could you make a special effort, and come up with a line of argument that doesn't involve lying? The idea that less smoke comes from a smaller building on fire (despite the fact that other conspiracy theorists have argued that all the smoke came from WTC5) is completely irrelevant to your original suggestion that it was the dynamics of the smoke, not the amount, that was suspicious.

It's painfully obvious that your approach to 9/11 is to start by picking a phenomenon at random, claim it's suspect, then invent a flimsy rationalisation for that belief. When someone questions that rationalisation, you simply invent a different one. Nobody's fooled by it.



Dave
I note that you excised my link to the raging inferno in WTC5 and can only conclude that you do not like the comparison with the much,much smaller fires in WTC7 which NIST say caused it to totally collapse despite it being one of the strongest steel structures ever constructed in the World history of such buidings. I repost the link to WTC5 for completeness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OCQvu7ULQ WTC5

The rest of your post is rambling and indecisive so I will lay out the framework for why I think smoke generators may have been used in WTC7 to create the illusion that 'where there is smoke there must be fire'.

Ifyou look at the video of WTC5 burning you will note that the heavy smoke is not apparent in the areas where there is serious fire.It appears to be rising away from where the raging inferno ends near the top of the buiidng.
In WTC7 the heavy smoke begins more or less at ground level, indicating that there was no raging inforno inside (otherewise we would have seen roaring flames and no smoke inthe area of fire, as can be seen in the WTC5 video). Considering that the fires were supposedly started by rubble from the North Tower we can easonably assume that the fires were right inside the South Wall where the smoke was coming from. So you see where I am going ? Small fires producing a mountain of smoke can only mean one thing--smoke generators like the one n the video I showed earlier.
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Old 17th March 2009, 03:18 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Smoke generators at outdoor rock concerts produce smoke that looks exactly like this. I don't think that many people who see this clip will have many doubts about what they are seeing. I may be wrong but I would love to test it on public broadcast TV with a call-in afterwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY

I see your problem. Too much Smoke at rock concerts.
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Old 17th March 2009, 03:32 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I note that you excised my link to the raging inferno in WTC5 and can only conclude that you do not like the comparion with the much,much smaller fires in WTC7 which NIST say caused it to totally collapse despite it being one of the strongest steel structures ever constructed in the World history of cuch buidings. I repost the link to WTC5 for completeness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OCQvu7ULQ WTC5

The rest of your post is rambling and indecisive so I will lay out the framework for why I think smoke generators may have been used in WTC7 to create the illusion that 'where there is smoke there must be fire'.

Ifyou look at the video of WTC5 burning you will note that the heavy smoke is not apparent in the areas where there is serious fire.It appears to be rising away from where the raging inferno ends near the top of the buiidng.
In WTC7 the heavy smoke begins more or less at ground level, indicating that there was no raging inforno inside (otherewise we would have seen roaring flames and no smoke inthe area of fire, as can be seen in the WTC5 video). Considering that the fires were supposedly started by rubble from the North Towr we can easonably assume that the fires were right inside the South Wall where the smoke was coming from. So you see where I am going ? Small fires producing a mountain of smoke can only mean one thing--smoke generators like the one n the video I showed earlier.
So roaring fires do not produce smoke only smoke generators do that.

Bill have you ever heard" Where there's smoke there's fire" or is that just an old wives tale?
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Old 17th March 2009, 03:39 AM   #353
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bill do you HONESTLY think that smoke generators are the only explanation for the smoke in the WTC fires? I'm serious, because do you have any idea how crazy that sounds?

ETA: I just had a thought. I can picture workmen carrying large boxes and distributing them around the WTC. When asked what they were, muttering "uhhhh....brand new copy machines sir. Nothing to see here. Move along..."
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Old 17th March 2009, 03:45 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
bill do you HONESTLY think that smoke generators are the only explanation for the smoke in the WTC fires? I'm serious, because do you have any idea how crazy that sounds?

ETA: I just had a thought. I can picture workmen carrying large boxes and distributing them around the WTC. When asked what they were, muttering "uhhhh....brand new copy machines sir. Nothing to see here. Move along..."
Of course not. There were fires after all. But in the case of WTC7 there were not enough fires to explain the gigantic quantity if smoke that was pumped out.

BBL
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Old 17th March 2009, 03:49 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
bill do you HONESTLY think that smoke generators are the only explanation for the smoke in the WTC fires? I'm serious, because do you have any idea how crazy that sounds?
Something in his behavior has given you the expectation of an honest answer? I pronounce you the most optimistic person in the universe!

Nothing to see here but dead horses.
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Old 17th March 2009, 03:53 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Of course not. There were fires after all. But in the case of WTC7 there were not enough fires to explain the gigantic quantity if smoke that was pumped out.

BBL
How did you calculate this? Please show your work.
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Old 17th March 2009, 04:01 AM   #357
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Why is 911Truth full of delusions of thermite?

There comes a time when your silence becomes betrayal
The time has come when your lack of knowledge on 911 betrays you

WTC5 destroyed by fire. How ironic. The same happened to WTC7.

Only a few fringe people fail to comprehend WTC7 failed due to fire. Knowledge is the key; 911Truth lost their key.
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Old 17th March 2009, 04:27 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Of course not. There were fires after all. But in the case of WTC7 there were not enough fires to explain the gigantic quantity if smoke that was pumped out.
You're using the behaviour of the smoke to determine the intensity of the fires, then claiming that the behaviour of the smoke from WTC7 is inconsistent with the size of the fires that you've just deduced from it. That's not circular logic, it's Moebius logic.

The possibility, of course, that you've chosen to ignore is that there were very large fires inside WTC7 - which was, after all, a very large building - but that most of them were not close to the exterior walls at the time your video was recorded. The reason that you've chosen to ignore that possibility is that it's a perfectly reasonable explanation for the behaviour of the smoke, is consistent with the fire modelling results published in the NIST report, and doesn't carry the faintest suggestion of anything underhand going on with WTC7.

Oh, and "rambling and indecisive"? There's nothing indecisive about pointing out that you're lying, and there's nothing rambling about pointing out that you're changing your lie whenever it suits you.

Dave
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Old 17th March 2009, 04:32 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
I pronounce you the most optimistic person in the universe!
Well, either that or a master of the rhetorical question
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Old 17th March 2009, 04:34 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by GStan View Post
How did you calculate this? Please show your work.
He has his eyes, dude. He has his eyes. He don't need no stinkin' calculations!
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