IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags alex jones , charlie sheen , hollywood , youtube

Reply
Old 5th July 2011, 09:29 AM   #41
Sabrina
Wicked Lovely
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,810
There's only one rock group I'm aware of that actually endorses several conspiracy theories, including 9/11 truth: hed p.e.

I hear their music regularly on the Octane channel on Sirius XM, but hadn't really heard they endorsed conspiracies until one of the DJ's mentioned it one morning as apparently being on their website. I was immediately disgusted, but since I don't own any of their albums and in fact only have one song of theirs on my iPod (Bartender), I figured it wasn't any skin off of my nose. I have to admit I'm surprised they weren't mentioned in that list in Orphia's OP though.

Here's the band's lead singer talking about that sort of thing:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Their latest album is going to be called Truth Rising, and features such gems as "The Capitalist Conspiracy", "Takeover", "Stand Up" (which, incidentally features a cameo by a member of a band I actually LIKE, Sevendust; I hope this doesn't mean he's on the bandwagon), "Murder", and "No More Secrets". I've never been one to blame the music kids listen to for the violence some of them perpetrate, but I have to wonder exactly what message these guys are trying to convey with song titles like that; one hopes it's not the way it looks on the surface; i.e. advocating a government takeover and potentially murdering the people they think are "in on it", but without seeing the lyrics I couldn't say.
Sabrina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 01:18 PM   #42
Sabretooth
No Ordinary Rabbit
 
Sabretooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 6,757
George Carlin?!?!?

I'm sorry...I can't imagine him being lumped into this group of morons. He was way too smart for 9/11 nonsense.

Say it ain't so!
__________________
--------------------------------------
Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit!

Sabretooth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 01:41 PM   #43
Walter Ego
Illuminator
 
Walter Ego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dixie
Posts: 3,377
Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
George Carlin?!?!?

I'm sorry...I can't imagine him being lumped into this group of morons. He was way too smart for 9/11 nonsense.

Say it ain't so!
It ain't.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Walter Ego is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 01:49 PM   #44
PGH
Graduate Poster
 
PGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,319
Walter I'm sorry but that video doesn't do much to make me think he's opposed to 9/11 truth. Honestly he seems to be a bit in favor of it. And believe me it hurts me like you don't know to think that George would be a truther. But he never trusted a word the government said.

I think 9/11 truth never really made it to his radar and if he spent 5 minutes looking into it he'd see how ridiculous they all are. But he's gone now and either we'll never know or something more conclusive will turn up.

Also I see my man Joe Rogan made the list. He's a brilliant comedian, I even got to see him live 2 weeks ago and he was keel-over funny. And incredibly smart. BUT very prone to woo. He's been on Alex Jones show. He's to blame for me questioning the pyramids. Funny, funny, funny guy but he has a bit of that woo weakness.
PGH is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 03:28 PM   #45
Jrrarglblarg
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless View Post
I'm holding out for 9/11 Truth on ice.
What song would you use for the "Circular Logic" piece? The choreography is obvious . . .
Jrrarglblarg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:35 PM   #46
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,133
Is it just me or is this list of celebrities really just a list of people who said bad things about W Bush?
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:24 PM   #47
Childlike Empress
Banned
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:47 PM   #48
1337m4n
Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man
 
1337m4n's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,510
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Is it just me or is this list of celebrities really just a list of people who said bad things about W Bush?
Truthers believe that anyone who believes the "official story" must also be a fan of W Bush. If this is true, then the contrapositive (if you hate W Bush, then you must also doubt the official story) must naturally be true as well.
__________________
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif

"The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo
1337m4n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 09:00 PM   #49
Triterope
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 916
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Is it just me or is this list of celebrities really just a list of people who said bad things about W Bush?
No. The list is far too short for that.
Triterope is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 05:06 AM   #50
Sabrina
Wicked Lovely
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,810
Besides, I don't see the Dixie Chicks on there.
Sabrina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 05:06 AM   #51
CptColumbo
Just One More Question
 
CptColumbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lots of places
Posts: 9,237
Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
Aaron Russo, the first name on the list, is dead and Gore Vidal has been senile for years and I would seriously doubt that Senator Al Franken is a truther. Michael J. Fox is a puzzler for me too.
I haven't watched the video, but I doubt Senator Franken is a "twoofer." He was certainly, and still is, critical of the Bush Administration, but I never heard him say anything about believing that they were somehow involved in 9/11.

If someone points to a link I will be glad to look it over, as long as it isn't a video.

In the meantime, as one of his constituents, I will send him a letter asking for him to comment.
__________________
I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office"
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling
CptColumbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 05:22 AM   #52
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 24,897
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
On a more serious note:

What is it about actors that you think disqualifies them from any particular area of knowledge? Setting aside this particular area of ignorance, are there other professions that are wholly composed of people whose opinions are automatically worthless to you? I don't know what you do for a living, but can I discard the opinions of everyone who shares your work role based on this one ignorant comment of yours?
Already answered, I think, still:

They are not disqualified, but they are not qualified, either. On a topic like 911, actors are simply ordinary people.

So imagine that this was instead about the opinion of a similar number of selected Wall-mart shoppers. - Not very impressive, right?

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 06:19 AM   #53
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 34,249
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
On a more serious note:

What is it about actors that you think disqualifies them from any particular area of knowledge? Setting aside this particular area of ignorance, are there other professions that are wholly composed of people whose opinions are automatically worthless to you? I don't know what you do for a living, but can I discard the opinions of everyone who shares your work role based on this one ignorant comment of yours?
The whole point of producing a list of actors who support 9/11 conspiracy theories is that these are people whose opinions are listened to by ordinary people, and therefor considered notable. In effect, it's an appeal to authority. Actors, however, have absolutely no relevant knowledge or experience specific to determining whether the 9/11 conspiracy theories are true by virtue of their being actors. Their opinions, therefore, while not automatically worthless, are not automatically of any value; they can be ignored with no more concern than, as Hans suggests, those of a group of people polled in a retail outlet.

When someone with relevant expertise makes a statement on 9/11, then a second level of disproof is required. Richard Gage, for example, has at least some familiarity with issues related to building construction, and therefore his opinions warrant critical examination (even though few, if any, originate from his own mind). And, as it turns out, all his opinions on 9/11 are based on fatally flawed analysis, so they can be discarded as worthless after examination. A group of actors who happen to agree with him, however, don't warrant any such examination, particularly as everything they claim has already been shown to be as worthless as Gage's second-hand lies.

Dave
__________________
There is truth and there are lies.

- President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 06:26 AM   #54
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
 
ElMondoHummus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
What is it about actors that you think disqualifies them from any particular area of knowledge? Setting aside this particular area of ignorance, are there other professions that are wholly composed of people whose opinions are automatically worthless to you? I don't know what you do for a living, but can I discard the opinions of everyone who shares your work role based on this one ignorant comment of yours?
On the one hand, I agree with the notion that it's less who says something than it is what they say. If a claim has been falsified, it doesn't matter who puts it forth, it's a falsified claim that fails on its own merits.

That said, I'll admit that quite a few of us here get tired with the seemingly perpetual truther trumpeting of "So-and-so-for-9/11-Truth"; it all too often gets presented as being another point of vindication for their beliefs when it's nothing more than a demonstration of how they're trying to be popular over being correct (as an aside, this is precisely why I say the movement is not about discovering truth or knowledge generation, but merely about proselytizing to others. It's a belief-conversion movement nowadays). It's further aggravating because knowlege may indeed be generated and validated by group effort, but that doesn't mean that reality is determined by group vote. Yet it seems like truthers act as if getting sufficient numbers is all that's necessary for ultimate vindication.

At any rate, what's the importance of actor and celebrity statements on 9/11? The same as any other citizen. Which acts as a rejection of the Truther attempts to attach greater significance to them.
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."
ElMondoHummus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 07:07 AM   #55
BCR
Master Poster
 
BCR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,278
This whole celeberty thing is annoying. I found a regular step-function error in the 84RADES time stamp. I wanted to understand it better. I did not seek out an actor in that quest. No, I sought out multiple individuals who know radar and data systems for help.

If I need help with acting, I'll ask an actor. Likewise, if I need help with some tech aspect of 9/11, I'll ask someone who has devoted their lives to studying that aspect, not an actor.
__________________
"Is your claim that the level of penetration is only governed by distance and not the material that is being penetrated?" - DGM
BCR is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 08:38 AM   #56
CptColumbo
Just One More Question
 
CptColumbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lots of places
Posts: 9,237
In the early 70's a reporter asked Elvis Presley's opinion of the Vietnam protests. He said something to the effect (and there is film of this if someone has the time to find it) that he is a singer and his opinion shouldn't matter more than anyone elses.

That's why he was the "King."
__________________
I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office"
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling
CptColumbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 09:26 AM   #57
Myriad
The Clarity Is Devastating
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 20,891
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Wow, that's brilliant parody! I thought the Truth Movement was, overall, self-selectively comprised of the least creative individuals on the planet. But this... this changes everything!

For example, note the innovative use of negatives to cleverly subvert the meaning of the original...

Quote:
Well it's all right,
It's okay,
You can look the other way

...to reveal the ironically opposite meaning that was implicit the whole time (since it's well known that all statements inevitably suggest their own negation; that is to say, it isn't and they don't.):

Quote:
Well it's not all right,
It's not okay,
For you to look the other way...

Weird Al Yancovic must be kicking himself that for all his parodic accomplishments, he overlooked that simple and devastating technique.

The only fly in this ointment is... I doubt that the actual Bee Gee's can be credited for this new version. While I acknowledge that inspiration can strike anywhere, it is statistically unlikely for the Bee Gee's to have suddenly and uncharacteristically revealed genius of that magnitude. So, in keeping with the thread topic, I must inquire: which Hollywood celebrity was the true mastermind of the piece?

I only ask because I would wish to caution that individual to be careful in the future application of his or her remarkable gift, even for the most laudable of causes. It is not clear that civilization itself could survive the magnitude of upheaval that must result from self-examination that profound. To offer one frightening example, from the tip of the truly terrifying iceberg:

Jingle bells, jingle bells,
Jingle not all the way,
Oh what fun it isn't to ride
In a zero-or-two-or-more-horse open sleigh...


Please, in the name of all that is holy, use that power wisely!

Respectfully,
Myriad
__________________
"*Except Myriad. Even Cthulhu would give him a pat on the head and an ice cream and send him to the movies while he ended the rest of the world." - Foster Zygote
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 09:33 AM   #58
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
Originally Posted by 1337m4n View Post
What kind of a person is actually PROUD of the fact that Charlie Sheen is on their side?
Hello? The side that is WINNINGTM.
Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
There's only one rock group I'm aware of that actually endorses several conspiracy theories, including 9/11 truth: hed p.e.
I think that the band Muse flirted with the Truth at some point. I thought that they even toured with a twin-towers inspired stage design. I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by CptColumbo View Post
In the early 70's a reporter asked Elvis Presley's opinion of the Vietnam protests. He said something to the effect (and there is film of this if someone has the time to find it) that he is a singer and his opinion shouldn't matter more than anyone elses.

That's why he was the "King."
Indeed.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 03:46 PM   #59
JohnG
Pedantic Bore
 
JohnG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Abandon All Hope
Posts: 6,808
Originally Posted by CptColumbo View Post
In the early 70's a reporter asked Elvis Presley's opinion of the Vietnam protests. He said something to the effect (and there is film of this if someone has the time to find it) that he is a singer and his opinion shouldn't matter more than anyone elses.

That's why he was the "King."

Is this the clip you're referring to?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. - Harlan Ellison
JohnG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 03:52 PM   #60
CptColumbo
Just One More Question
 
CptColumbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lots of places
Posts: 9,237
Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
Is this the clip you're referring to?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
That looks like it.

"I'm just an entertainer."

Although I was wrong and he just said he would prefer to keep his personal view to himself.

I think I originally saw it in the documentary This is Elvis.

He's still the "King."
__________________
I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office"
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling

Last edited by CptColumbo; 6th July 2011 at 03:54 PM.
CptColumbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 04:23 PM   #61
Childlike Empress
Banned
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Wow, that's brilliant parody! I thought the Truth Movement was, overall, self-selectively comprised of the least creative individuals on the planet. But this... this changes everything!

For example, note the innovative use of negatives to cleverly subvert the meaning of the original...




...to reveal the ironically opposite meaning that was implicit the whole time (since it's well known that all statements inevitably suggest their own negation; that is to say, it isn't and they don't.):




Weird Al Yancovic must be kicking himself that for all his parodic accomplishments, he overlooked that simple and devastating technique.

The only fly in this ointment is... I doubt that the actual Bee Gee's can be credited for this new version. While I acknowledge that inspiration can strike anywhere, it is statistically unlikely for the Bee Gee's to have suddenly and uncharacteristically revealed genius of that magnitude. So, in keeping with the thread topic, I must inquire: which Hollywood celebrity was the true mastermind of the piece?

I only ask because I would wish to caution that individual to be careful in the future application of his or her remarkable gift, even for the most laudable of causes. It is not clear that civilization itself could survive the magnitude of upheaval that must result from self-examination that profound. To offer one frightening example, from the tip of the truly terrifying iceberg:

Jingle bells, jingle bells,
Jingle not all the way,
Oh what fun it isn't to ride
In a zero-or-two-or-more-horse open sleigh...


Please, in the name of all that is holy, use that power wisely!

Respectfully,
Myriad

Haha, nice rant, Myriad. Of course you were aware that your own crowd, the "debunking movement", is the least creative bunch ever. That guy Chris Mohr now managed for the first time to put your position into an adult and half-way respectable form without resorting to 4chan retardation with LOLcatz and buckets full of Gravy (good work, Chris). And even that is far from creative, although it does its job, it's just less neurotic. In 2011. No surprise you're a little pissed at that.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 04:43 PM   #62
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Its very hard to be civil to people who show you no civility, CE.

Truthers simply do not deserve politeness shown to them by Chris Mohr. They simply do not deserve it.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 04:55 PM   #63
Childlike Empress
Banned
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Its very hard to be civil to people who show you no civility, CE.

Truthers simply do not deserve politeness shown to them by Chris Mohr. They simply do not deserve it.

Your problem is that you assume that anybody waited for the noise of an attention-seeking kid. It's just not the case.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 05:02 PM   #64
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
CE - the fact of the matter is that truthers implicate the FDNY in 9/11.

Therefore they deserve no politeness. My opinion. Chris is way more patient than I.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 07:31 PM   #65
RCory
Student
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by CptColumbo View Post
I haven't watched the video, but I doubt Senator Franken is a "twoofer." He was certainly, and still is, critical of the Bush Administration, but I never heard him say anything about believing that they were somehow involved in 9/11.

If someone points to a link I will be glad to look it over, as long as it isn't a video.

In the meantime, as one of his constituents, I will send him a letter asking for him to comment.
Franken is only in that video to say how mean and nasty Bill O'Reilly was for picking on that son of a 9/11 victim (Jeremy Glick?). Actually, that exchange was one of the most entertaining parts of the video.
RCory is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 07:54 PM   #66
jiggeryqua
Illuminator
 
jiggeryqua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,107
Of a handful of similar responses to an earlier remark of mine, this one will do to further the particular discussion:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Actors, however, have absolutely no relevant knowledge or experience specific to determining whether the 9/11 conspiracy theories are true by virtue of their being actors.
Your bolding, but very much my point. 'Being an actor' adds nothing - but 'being an actor' doesn't preclude adding something. I can't, off the top of my head, think of an actor with a PhD in anything (unless you count my brother, but he hasn't trod the boards for years and you wouldn't know him from Adam), but that hairy guitarist out of Queen is a knowledgeable astrophysicist. Unless they nodded through his doctorate because they liked Seven Seas of Rye? Surely not...

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
A group of actors who happen to agree with him, however, don't warrant any such examination, particularly as everything they claim has already been shown to be as worthless as Gage's second-hand lies.
I know only too well how partisan discussions in this subforum can become, but I was never saying that any of those actors had anything of value to contribute to the matter at hand. Far from it. I was, however, taking issue with dismissal of the opinions of actors, of out hand, as though they knew nothing beyond mindlessly repeating lines written for them and remembering not to look at the camera. Acting is rarely, in and of itself, intellectually taxing, but it isn't solely undertaken by idiots either.
jiggeryqua is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 08:14 PM   #67
Sam.I.Am
Illuminator
 
Sam.I.Am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,627
I think that the issue being taken isn't so much about whether or not they are capable of having an opinion (although for a few of them their thought processes are obviously flawed) but that they (or others) are using their fame earned in a completely unrelated field (acting) as a bully pulpit for something that at best their opinion is worth no more than any average Joe off of the street.

I hold the same opinion for actors and politics. If you are qualified to hold the office then run for it and use your fame that way. Actually stand there and field questions (and not just the softball ones from people who you know already agree with you). Otherwise your opinion is no different than mine.
__________________
"Swift, silent and deadly" was a part of my job description Upon hearing me say that my friend asked me "So you're a fart?"...

About my avatar.
Sam.I.Am is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 09:21 PM   #68
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 34,249
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
Your bolding, but very much my point. 'Being an actor' adds nothing - but 'being an actor' doesn't preclude adding something.
Then, if any of them chooses to add something by offering a clear, evidence-based line of argument, rather than rehashing the same old lies, they'll be worth listening to. However, at the moment, the argument on offer is "Here's a bunch of famous people who believe something, therefore you should believe it too." That line of argument is worthless without support from evidence.

And, in fact, in attracting attention to themselves by repeating 9/11 conspiracy theories that they clearly don't understand, these particular actors are conforming very nicely to the stereotype of "mindlessly repeating lines written for them and remembering not to look at the camera". If they want to be taken seriously, as intelligent people with noteworthy opinions, they're not doing themselves any favours.

Dave
__________________
There is truth and there are lies.

- President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2011, 04:29 AM   #69
Walter Ego
Illuminator
 
Walter Ego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dixie
Posts: 3,377
Originally Posted by RCory View Post
Franken is only in that video to say how mean and nasty Bill O'Reilly was for picking on that son of a 9/11 victim (Jeremy Glick?). Actually, that exchange was one of the most entertaining parts of the video.
A person's name on the list of personalities in the video linked in the OP does not mean they are advocating 9/11 truth in the video.

Franken has been confronted several times by Minnesota truthers and each time he has stated unequivocally he doesn't believe in 9/11 conspiracy's.

Franken: "I am not a 9/11 conspiracist."

Franken: "I don't think it was an inside job."
Walter Ego is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2011, 10:25 AM   #70
Sam.I.Am
Illuminator
 
Sam.I.Am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,627
I'm willing to bet that Franken said something about the state of affairs within our intelligence agencies before 9/11 and/or about people playing CYA after 9/11 (something pretty much everyone agrees with to some degree) and cherry picked the hell out of it to try and make it sound like he was a truther. The guy had a radio show to fill every day for years and he didn't like Bush at all so there's bound to be plenty of sound bites to cherry pick from.
__________________
"Swift, silent and deadly" was a part of my job description Upon hearing me say that my friend asked me "So you're a fart?"...

About my avatar.
Sam.I.Am is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2011, 12:51 PM   #71
Myron Proudfoot
Master Poster
 
Myron Proudfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northern VA/DC
Posts: 2,361
All it takes for a truther to claim that you agree with them to to express doubts about any part of the 9/11 narrative. If you say that you don't think the Bush Admin was totally upfront about the pre-911 intelligence (meaning not LIHOP but laxness or error on handling the intel) then like magic, POOF, you're a truther even if you think the truther version of events is idiotic...
__________________
InfoWars. Punching logic in the face on a daily basis. (from Facebook)
Myron Proudfoot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2011, 03:52 PM   #72
Walter Ego
Illuminator
 
Walter Ego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dixie
Posts: 3,377
Originally Posted by Myron Proudfoot View Post
All it takes for a truther to claim that you agree with them to to express doubts about any part of the 9/11 narrative. If you say that you don't think the Bush Admin was totally upfront about the pre-911 intelligence (meaning not LIHOP but laxness or error on handling the intel) then like magic, POOF, you're a truther even if you think the truther version of events is idiotic...
The flip side of that is that if you don't think 9/11 was an inside job truthers automatically assume you must have supported Bush and the Iraq war or you're a neo-con shill or a "media-controlled worm" (that last one was actually leveled at me by a demented truther chick) no matter what your actual political views.
Walter Ego is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2011, 07:59 PM   #73
jiggeryqua
Illuminator
 
jiggeryqua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,107
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Then, if any of them chooses to add something by offering a clear, evidence-based line of argument, rather than rehashing the same old lies, they'll be worth listening to. [...] And, in fact, in attracting attention to themselves by repeating 9/11 conspiracy theories that they clearly don't understand, these particular actors are conforming very nicely to the stereotype of "mindlessly repeating lines written for them and remembering not to look at the camera". If they want to be taken seriously, as intelligent people with noteworthy opinions, they're not doing themselves any favours.
Other ways to be taken seriously as intelligent with noteworthy opinions include reading the entire post you're responding to:

Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
I know only too well how partisan discussions in this subforum can become, but I was never saying that any of those actors had anything of value to contribute to the matter at hand. Far from it.
jiggeryqua is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2011, 08:01 PM   #74
RCory
Student
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
A person's name on the list of personalities in the video linked in the OP does not mean they are advocating 9/11 truth in the video.

Franken has been confronted several times by Minnesota truthers and each time he has stated unequivocally he doesn't believe in 9/11 conspiracy's.
wait, a truther misrepresented what someone said or believes? Nah, can't be true.
RCory is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2011, 09:58 PM   #75
Oz1976
Muse
 
Oz1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 720
Originally Posted by PGH View Post
Walter I'm sorry but that video doesn't do much to make me think he's opposed to 9/11 truth. Honestly he seems to be a bit in favor of it. And believe me it hurts me like you don't know to think that George would be a truther. But he never trusted a word the government said.

I think 9/11 truth never really made it to his radar and if he spent 5 minutes looking into it he'd see how ridiculous they all are. But he's gone now and either we'll never know or something more conclusive will turn up.

Also I see my man Joe Rogan made the list. He's a brilliant comedian, I even got to see him live 2 weeks ago and he was keel-over funny. And incredibly smart. BUT very prone to woo. He's been on Alex Jones show. He's to blame for me questioning the pyramids. Funny, funny, funny guy but he has a bit of that woo weakness.
It's all the DMT and Marijuana he and Eddie Bravo have been imbibing. And they say there's no bad side effects...
Oz1976 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th July 2011, 01:15 AM   #76
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 34,249
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
Other ways to be taken seriously as intelligent with noteworthy opinions include reading the entire post you're responding to:
Or, indeed, understanding that a response can reasonably be directed towards only one of several points made in a post.

Dave
__________________
There is truth and there are lies.

- President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th July 2011, 11:17 AM   #77
jiggeryqua
Illuminator
 
jiggeryqua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,107
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Or, indeed, understanding that a response can reasonably be directed towards only one of several points made in a post.

Dave
Whose point, whose post? Is this a 'last word' showdown?

You can reasonably respond to one of several points. In fact, you responded to none, opting to lecture me in something it was clear I understood and conceded. I'd even made the point that that was likely - this is an ultra-orthodox forum and I knew that saying 'actors can be intelligent and knowledgeable in specialist fields' ran the risk of being read as 'well these actors might be on to something'.

I suppose you might have been simply agreeing with me, and it just came across as a lecture. Either way...

Last word.
jiggeryqua is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th July 2011, 04:36 PM   #78
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
 
gumboot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 25,327
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
Your bolding, but very much my point. 'Being an actor' adds nothing - but 'being an actor' doesn't preclude adding something. I can't, off the top of my head, think of an actor with a PhD in anything.

I think you'd be surprised, actually. Having said that, the actors on this list are not A-listers, they're at best second or third tier, most of them not even that.


Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
I was, however, taking issue with dismissal of the opinions of actors, of out hand, as though they knew nothing beyond mindlessly repeating lines written for them and remembering not to look at the camera. Acting is rarely, in and of itself, intellectually taxing, but it isn't solely undertaken by idiots either.
In my experience most actors are very intelligent. But they're also incredibly ignorant. I wouldn't trust most actors with an opinion on filmmaking, let alone a topic outside their field of work.
__________________

O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde
keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.


A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.
gumboot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th July 2011, 04:43 PM   #79
A W Smith
Philosopher
 
A W Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 7,032
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
Whose point, whose post? Is this a 'last word' showdown?
This point (highlighted)
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
"Hollywood" "celebrities" speak about 9/11 "truth" in a new (surprise, surprise) Youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rw397VbRyM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


It's 2 and a half hours long, so I preferred to read 911truth.org's synopsis on it. As it is, I wasted valuable time clicking "dislike" on the vid.

Starring:
Charlie Sheen (Actor: Platoon, Wall Street, Two and a Half Men)
Alex Jones (Radio Host/Film Producer)
Daniel Sunjata (Actor: Rescue Me, Grey�s Anatomy, The Devil Wears Prada)
Jesse Ventura (Actor, Author, TV Host, former Governor of Minnesota)
Dean Haglund (Actor: The X-Files/The Lone Gunman)
Willie Nelson (Singer/Actor)
Mark Ruffalo (Actor: Shutter Island, The Kids Are All Right)
Rosie O�Donnell (Actress/TV Host: The View)
Martin Sheen (Actor: The West Wing, Apocalypse Now)
Geraldo Rivera (TV Host: Geraldo at Large)

Also featuring:
Aaron Russo (Film Director/Producer: The Rose, Trading Places)
Al Franken (TV Host: Air America)
Bob MacIlvaine (Victim Family Member)
Christine Ebersole (Singer/Actress)
Dave Mustaine (Musician/Singer: Megadeath)
David Lynch (Film Director: Twin Peaks, Blue Velvet)
Ed Asner (Actor: The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Lou Grant, Up)
Esai Morales (Actor: La Bamba, Jericho)
Gary Busey (Actor: Lethal Weapon, Point Break)
George Carlin (Comedian)
Gore Vidal (Actor/Author)
Hal Sparks (Actor/Comedian: Queer as Folk, Spider-Man 2)
Henry Rollins (Singer/Actor)
Jeremy Glick (Victim Family Member)
Jim Corr (Singer/Musician: The Corrs)
Joe Rogan (TV Host: Ultimate Fighting Championship)
John Schneider (Actor: Dukes of Hazzard, Desperate Houswives)
Margaret Cho (Actress/Comedian)
Michael Moore (Film Director/Producer)
Prodigy (Rap Artist)
Sam Harris (Singer/Actor)

Other Celebrities who question 9/11 (listed at end of movie):
Dick Gregory (Actor/Writer)
Evan Dando (Musician/Singer: The Lemonheads)
Harry Belafonte (Singer/Actor)
Heather Thomas (Actress: The Fall Guy)
Immortal Technique (Rap Artist)
James Brolin (Actor: Marcus Welby M.D, Hotel; husband of Barbra Streisand)
James Cromwell (Australian Actor: Babe, The Queen)
Janeane Garofalo (Actress: The Truth About Cats & Dogs, 24)
Juliette Binoche (Actress: The English Patient, Chocolat) O Rly? Does she know about this?
Lou Dobbs (TV Host)
Marion Cottilard (Actress: Inception, Nine)
Matt Bellamy (Singer/Musician: Muse; engaged to Kate Hudson)
Michael J Fox (Actor: Family Ties, Back to the Future) ???!
Michelle Phillips (Singer/Actress: The Mamas & The Papas, Knots Landing)
Mimi Kennedy (Actress: Dharma & Greg, Due Date)
Mos Def (Rap Artist)
Nina Hagen (Singer/Actress)
Patrice O�Neal (Comedian/Actor)
Peter Coyote (Actor: E.T. - The Extra Terrestrial, Erin Brockovich)
Roseanne Barr (TV Host/Actress: Roseanne)
Sharon Stone (Actress: Basic Instinct, Casino)
Spencer Pratt (Reality TV Personality: The Hills)
Tom DeLonge (Musician/Actor: Blink 182, American Pie)
Tommy Chong (Actor: Cheech & Chong�s Up In Smoke)
Woody Harrelson (Actor: Cheers, No Country for Old Men)


An Appeal to a False Authority bigger than Ben Hur!
Originally Posted by Reactor drone View Post
I'll say, what would actors know about it? We really need a list of hollywood camera operators who question 9/11 for the authoritative take on that event.
Quote:
You can reasonably respond to one of several points. In fact, you responded to none, opting to lecture me in something it was clear I understood and conceded. I'd even made the point that that was likely - this is an ultra-orthodox forum and I knew that saying 'actors can be intelligent and knowledgeable in specialist fields' ran the risk of being read as 'well these actors might be on to something'.

I suppose you might have been simply agreeing with me, and it just came across as a lecture. Either way...

Last word.
You agree it was a call to false authority then? Good. anything else you are concerned about?
__________________
911 resource site by Mark Roberts
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home
Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance.
Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane?
Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude.

Last edited by A W Smith; 8th July 2011 at 04:44 PM.
A W Smith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2011, 01:56 PM   #80
tempesta29
Muse
 
tempesta29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 796
Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
George Carlin?!?!?

I'm sorry...I can't imagine him being lumped into this group of morons. He was way too smart for 9/11 nonsense.

Say it ain't so!
It is so. Deal with it.
tempesta29 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:54 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.