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Tags colin scoggins , rob balsamo

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Old 6th July 2011, 03:56 PM   #1
1337m4n
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"Pilots for Truth" using its mailing list to trash opponents

For reasons I don't remember, I'm on P4T's mailing list. I just got this message:

Quote:
Boston Air Traffic Controller/Military Liaison - Dodges, Evades, Ignores Pertinent Questions

07/05/2011 - (PilotsFor911Truth.org) Mr. Colin Scoggins, a Boston Air Traffic Controller who worked the military liaison desk at Boston Air Route Traffic Control Center on the morning of September 11, 2001, is also a member of the Pilots For 9/11 Truth forum since August 2007 known under the nick-name "Cheap Shot". Co-Founder of Pilots For 9/11 Truth Rob Balsamo recently released a scene to the public from the Pilots For 9/11 Truth latest presentation entitled 9/11: INTERCEPTED. Despite being a registered Forum member since August 2007, Mr. Scoggins finally elected to engage discussion at the Pilots For 911 Truth forum with respect to the information analyzed. After being asked relevant and pertinent questions with all due respect, Mr. Scoggins dodged, evaded and ignored. The few questions Mr. Scoggins elected to answer, his answers were proven to be inaccurate using Scoggins' own words recorded and provided through the Freedom Of Information Act.

Click here for full article and discussion.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/i...howtopic=21483
Let me quote one particularly interesting line...

Quote:
Mr. Scoggins has claimed early in the above linked dialogue that he will retreat from the discussion if disrespected.
Mr. Balsamo, most sane individuals consider the act of using a mass mailing list to laugh at an opponent behind his back to be a "disrespectful" act.

The discussion in question features Scoggins, apparently a 9/11 eyewitness, so the comments may be of interest to folks here: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/i...#entry10799127
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Old 6th July 2011, 04:01 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by 1337m4n View Post
For reasons I don't remember, I'm on P4T's mailing list. I just got this message:



Let me quote one particularly interesting line...



Mr. Balsamo, most sane individuals consider the act of using a mass mailing list to laugh at an opponent behind his back to be a "disrespectful" act.

The discussion in question features Scoggins, apparently a 9/11 eyewitness, so the comments may be of interest to folks here: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/i...#entry10799127
FYI. he is a member here.

Goes by the name of "Cheap shot" here too.

Nice guy.
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Old 6th July 2011, 04:06 PM   #3
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This is low, even for CPt'n Bob. Cheap Shot took the time to talk to them (for what reason I can't fathom) in an attempt to help and they give him the CIT Lloyde England treatment
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Old 6th July 2011, 04:09 PM   #4
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Actually, tis doesn't suprise me, BECAUSE of the way they treated Mr. England.

Scumbags, the whole lot of 'em.
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Old 6th July 2011, 04:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 1337m4n View Post
The discussion in question features Scoggins, apparently a 9/11 eyewitness, so the comments may be of interest to folks here: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/i...#entry10799127
Apparently a 9/11 eyewitness?? I thought you'd been in threads here with him before; he was on the front line of the ATC/NEADS response in Boston Center. He's considerably more than an eyewitness; Ref here interviewed him and posted it.

Or was than an ironic quote and I missed it? If so, I'm so sorry.
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Old 6th July 2011, 08:23 PM   #6
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What a SCUMBAG!

I don't blame Colin for leaving that cesspool!

Balsamo is WRONG....again. Colin's position report had absolutely nothing to do with the F-15's (Panta) going into holding off Long Island. New York Center didn't want them over NYC, probably due to traffic. There was a discussion about that on one of the NEADS tapes.

Additionally, Colins' position report had absolutely nothing to do with why the Langley Fighters went 090 for 60 nm. That is very clear on the Norfolk TRACON tapes. They flew a standard Scramble Departure out of Langley and did not turn North earlier in accordance with the Scramble Instructions due to a joint shared failure on the part of Norfolk TRACON and the Quit Flight leader.

I didn't read all of the garbage in that thread, only that between Colin and Balsamo. A waste of time....
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Old 6th July 2011, 08:25 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Apparently a 9/11 eyewitness?? I thought you'd been in threads here with him before; he was on the front line of the ATC/NEADS response in Boston Center. He's considerably more than an eyewitness; Ref here interviewed him and posted it.

Or was than an ironic quote and I missed it? If so, I'm so sorry.
I'm on like 3 hours of sleep and on top of that am trying to quit caffeine cold turkey. Brain not operating at peak capacity today.

It still seems to be operating a few notches above Balsamo's though.
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Old 6th July 2011, 10:07 PM   #8
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I think that e-mail went out to all of their members. Cheap shot should have a copy of it.
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Old 7th July 2011, 03:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
I don't blame Colin for leaving that cesspool!

Balsamo is WRONG....again. Colin's position report had absolutely nothing to do with the F-15's (Panta) going into holding off Long Island. New York Center didn't want them over NYC, probably due to traffic. There was a discussion about that on one of the NEADS tapes.

Additionally, Colins' position report had absolutely nothing to do with why the Langley Fighters went 090 for 60 nm. That is very clear on the Norfolk TRACON tapes. They flew a standard Scramble Departure out of Langley and did not turn North earlier in accordance with the Scramble Instructions due to a joint shared failure on the part of Norfolk TRACON and the Quit Flight leader.

I didn't read all of the garbage in that thread, only that between Colin and Balsamo. A waste of time....
I will do a rare 'defense' of FAA folks. Norfolk TRACON had nothing to do with the failure of QUIT25 not turning north. That is completely on the lead pilot. The first thing the Norfolk ATC asked was where the pilot wanted to go and was prepared (and expecting) to turn him north. However, Colin had absolutely nothing to do with that call or scramble.
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Old 7th July 2011, 03:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
After being asked relevant and pertinent questions with all due respect, Mr. Scoggins dodged, evaded and ignored.
I read that thread a while ago, and they were asking him all sorts of questions irrelevant to his experience on the day. No wonder he didn't answer them.
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Old 7th July 2011, 06:57 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by BCR View Post
I will do a rare 'defense' of FAA folks. Norfolk TRACON had nothing to do with the failure of QUIT25 not turning north. That is completely on the lead pilot. The first thing the Norfolk ATC asked was where the pilot wanted to go and was prepared (and expecting) to turn him north. However, Colin had absolutely nothing to do with that call or scramble.
Ultimately, the fault rests on the leader just as it does if he crashes. However, the reason TRACON and Giant Killer also copied the Scramble Order is that they all share a responsibility to comply with it. That's the basis of the relationship between pilots and the FAA in the conduct of air traffic in the first place. They both share responsibility for conducting operations safely during normal conditions, as well. If either one of the (Flight Lead or the TRACON Controller) had been more cognizant of the urgency of the situation the flight would have turned Northwest earlier than it did.

Another factor that contributed is that if the Supervisor of Flying (SOF) had been in the tower rather than flying a number 3 it would likely have been different, as well.

Quite frankly, it really didn't make any difference in the outcome. The launch was too late anyway even if the Quits had turned toward DC right after take-off they still could not have intercepted AA 77.

Gumboot and I had a discussion on this issue quite some time ago. We came to the conclusion that the only way the Quits could have stopped AA-77 under the best scenario would have been a Beyond Visual Range (BVR) shot in the face. NO ONE in their right mind would ever approve that against a Civilian Airliner then or now.
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Old 7th July 2011, 07:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Ultimately, the fault rests on the leader just as it does if he crashes. However, the reason TRACON and Giant Killer also copied the Scramble Order is that they all share a responsibility to comply with it. That's the basis of the relationship between pilots and the FAA in the conduct of air traffic in the first place. They both share responsibility for conducting operations safely during normal conditions, as well. If either one of the (Flight Lead or the TRACON Controller) had been more cognizant of the urgency of the situation the flight would have turned Northwest earlier than it did.

Another factor that contributed is that if the Supervisor of Flying (SOF) had been in the tower rather than flying a number 3 it would likely have been different, as well.

Quite frankly, it really didn't make any difference in the outcome. The launch was too late anyway even if the Quits had turned toward DC right after take-off they still could not have intercepted AA 77.

Gumboot and I had a discussion on this issue quite some time ago. We came to the conclusion that the only way the Quits could have stopped AA-77 under the best scenario would have been a Beyond Visual Range (BVR) shot in the face. NO ONE in their right mind would ever approve that against a Civilian Airliner then or now.
Oh I agree. All I'm saying is that the Norfolk tower defered to the lead pilot. If anything, Colin's call to NEADS relative to the phantom AAL11 got the QUIT fighters airborne sooner than they otherwise would have. I have (and continue) to regard Colin as one of the heros of 9/11. That is why I really take offense at CPt'n Bob's latest.
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Old 7th July 2011, 09:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by BCR View Post
I have (and continue) to regard Colin as one of the heros of 9/11. That is why I really take offense at CPt'n Bob's latest.
The salient point that needs to be made is that without Colin's initiative there would likely have been no response from NORAD at all. They would have been getting their information from CNN like the rest of us....
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Old 7th July 2011, 11:45 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
I read that thread a while ago, and they were asking him all sorts of questions irrelevant to his experience on the day. No wonder he didn't answer them.
I work for a TV station that is owned by a cable company. we get;
-Calls from viewers asking why we are showing, or not showing such-and-such a program. We are an affilliate and some programming is not set by us.
-Calls from viewers of other stations asking why this-or-that. We do not know anything about the interanl decisions made by other stations.
-Calls from cable customers asking for a service call. We do not handle cable service, the cable company handles those.
-Calls from cable customers wishing to complain about 'inappropriate' programming on other stations. We do not, and neither does the cable company, have anything to do with programming on other stations.

Soooo, one wonders, why do these people call us?
Because WE are a TV station and they have an issue with TV AND our number is in the local phone book.

Not too far removed from this irrelevent line of inquiry is Cappy Robby asking questions of Cheap Shot which CS has nothing to do with. He might as well have asked why Balsamo's dentists's waiting room does't stock "Sport's Illustrated", or complain that the Canadian cable station, OUTTV airs homosexual content( got that one last year).
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Old 7th July 2011, 11:50 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
The salient point that needs to be made is that without Colin's initiative there would likely have been no response from NORAD at all. They would have been getting their information from CNN like the rest of us....
Which is why the brain trust at PfT assumes that Colin was in charge and in the know on all things that day. They do not see that all the intel and command info was not a two way street.
Colin's role was to alert the military and provide some intel to them, not direct them operationally.
Am I mistaken?
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Old 7th July 2011, 12:16 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Which is why the brain trust at PfT assumes that Colin was in charge and in the know on all things that day. They do not see that all the intel and command info was not a two way street.
Colin's role was to alert the military and provide some intel to them, not direct them operationally.
Am I mistaken?
I think you're correct. From Ref's interview:
Quote:
Cheap Shot: I am a controller at Boston Center, have been since 1982. In 1989 I did two years in the Airspace and Procedures office at Boston Center. In 1991 I returned to the Airspace Office on a permanent basis. In 1995 we restructured at the Center and I also assumed the Military Liaison or Military Specialist Position along with my Airspace Duties.

As the military specialist I am responsible for all military procedures between Boston Center and the military units in my airspace, and any visiting military units that participate in any of our Special Use Airspace (SUA). Through the years I have developed a pretty good working relationship with those units. One of the main units I deal with is the Northeastern Air Defense Sector (NEADS). They schedule the majority of SUA in Boston Center Airspace.
Cheap Shot himself can give more detail if he sees this.
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Old 7th July 2011, 02:09 PM   #17
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Cap'n Bob once again demonstrates his arrogance and ignorance..

At least Colin was there.
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Old 8th July 2011, 11:19 AM   #18
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Thanks for Support

Originally Rob had contacted me several months ago about being interviewed for his upcoming DVD, which was just recently released. I actually set up a couple of times when we could talk and he never contacted me, on the two times I had set up.

So I went over to his sight a couple of weeks ago, to see if we could get a discussion going. I won't say I was ganged up on becasue it was mostly just Rob. I would say the majority of questions he asked me were nothing I could really answer other than issue in which I could offer an opinion and not fact. I was also very busy coaching my grandson's baseball and didn't have time to reply as often as he wanted me to. A loyal member here advised me I was wasting my time over there and that coaching my grandsons team would be far more rewarding, I would have to agree with him.

I'm still involved in my grandsons torunaments so I am still busy doing that, and will probably shy away from the other sight. One individual contacted me from the P4t site and has been very professional in his questions, and I will probably continue to dialog with him. I felt like everytime we had a discussion I came away with a headache. Not really worth it.

I still respond to most people who contact me regarding 9-11, if it is a question I can answer, or I will try to point them in the right direction.

Thanks to all of those who have supported me on this site. I enjoy talking about 9-11 and trying to just set the record straight on what I dealt with that day. There were mistakes made, but I never saw an ounce of evidence with the people I worked with that day that indicated to me that there was a military standown, or that the FAA was some how involved in a cover up.

For those interested I was interviewed by Michael Rudin of the BBC about a month ago for a documentary that the BBC is putting on, on the tenth anniversary. Don't know if it will be shown state side or not.
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Old 8th July 2011, 11:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cheap Shot View Post
For those interested I was interviewed by Michael Rudin of the BBC about a month ago for a documentary that the BBC is putting on, on the tenth anniversary. Don't know if it will be shown state side or not.


Would that be the one discussed here?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=213238

...where they actually convinced a CTer that it wasn't an inside job? Because that would be cool!
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Old 8th July 2011, 12:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Cheap Shot View Post
There were mistakes made, but I never saw an ounce of evidence with the people I worked with that day that indicated to me that there was a military standown, or that the FAA was some how involved in a cover up.
Thank you for that consise summary. Its really all that need be said.
(Though I fear that some who prefer parsing quotes will quote you only so far as the fourth word above)
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Old 8th July 2011, 02:10 PM   #21
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Why wouldn't Pilots for Truth use their mailing list to trash opponents?

They're certainly not using it to coordinate the authoring of peer-review-worthy technical papers presenting their position.

And if all you use a mailing list for is fund raising, the recipients will eventually stop reading your emails.

So it's trash your opponent, or kitten pictures, forwarded jokes, and links to Cracked articles. Under the circumstances they probably made the best decision possible.

Respectfully,
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Old 8th July 2011, 02:40 PM   #22
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To anyone who has first hand information about 911.
You would probably be treated the same way as Cheap Shot was if interviewed by Pilots for truth. So what is the point of having anything to do with them? They are not after facts, as facts do not support their case.
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Old 9th July 2011, 08:34 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by George152 View Post
Cap'n Bob once again demonstrates his arrogance and ignorance..

At least Colin was there.
Also his cowardice.
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Old 9th July 2011, 09:34 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by stewieg View Post
Also his cowardice.
When I first 'met' CPt'n Bob he lived in Knoxville. When he and CIT first put me on their 'enemies list', I extended an invitation for him to visit Memphis so we could meet face-to-face and buy the guy a cup of coffee (or beer). My home address and telephone number are not state secrets. I post them regularly on the web. I even drove through Knoxville on numerous occasions on the way to DC and would have been happy to meet up with him.

To date, none of them are man enough to meet me in person. So, coward pretty much sums it up
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Old 9th July 2011, 01:42 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by BCR View Post
When I first 'met' CPt'n Bob he lived in Knoxville. When he and CIT first put me on their 'enemies list', I extended an invitation for him to visit Memphis so we could meet face-to-face and buy the guy a cup of coffee (or beer). My home address and telephone number are not state secrets. I post them regularly on the web. I even drove through Knoxville on numerous occasions on the way to DC and would have been happy to meet up with him.

To date, none of them are man enough to meet me in person. So, coward pretty much sums it up


Maybe he doesn't go anywhere because he's afraid of flying (and driving) and interacting with humanity ?
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Old 10th July 2011, 04:40 PM   #26
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Who's basement is the scumbag living in now?


Originally Posted by Douche Bag Bob
Interesting you assumed Washington before Philly, and then coincidentally that was the next city attacked, albeit from a supposed target from the west, and not some Phantom Jet everyone was looking for coming from the Northeast.
Right there, I would have stopped responding to that wanker. This was the second post he made to CS and already started with an accusatory tone.

Then he does this:

Originally Posted by Douche Bag Bob
There are 3 possibilities here to describe the behavior of Colin Scoggins over the past several pages.

Colin is incompetent.
Colin is a dupe.
Colin was involved.
What a pathetic loser. This guy is so hungry for attention. He is doing anything he can to get his website more hits for the upcoming 10 year anniversary.
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Old 10th July 2011, 06:02 PM   #27
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How is it that these sad people call themselves 'truthers' when they are so obviously not looking at the truth? So full of fail.
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Old 13th July 2011, 11:09 AM   #28
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I loved this quote from Balsamo-
Originally Posted by Rob Balsamo
If we get a Judge who actually reviews the evidence (preferably one who isnt a cousin of Bush), I'm sure Colin will be called to the stand. As i said in the conversation, he wont be able to escape the questions. I just hope Colin doesn't end up like Barry Jennings before being able to answer.
Now, I know next to nothing about Cheap Shot, but it seems he's hardly been reluctant to answer questions related to the events of 9/11. Unless the phrase "he wont be able to escape the questions" is code for "he'll give answers that support the Twoof", I'm not sure what Rob's fantasy of calling him to the stand would accomplish. I swear, sometimes I think the truthers imagine a trial would end up like the final courtroom scene of "A Few Good Men".

BTW, I'm sure that Cheap Shot is genuinely touched by Rob's concern that the NWO doesn't eliminate him like they did Barry Jennings.
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Old 13th July 2011, 11:15 AM   #29
jaydeehess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Balsamo
If we get a Judge who actually reviews the evidence (preferably one who isnt a cousin of Bush), I'm sure Colin will be called to the stand. As i said in the conversation, he wont be able to escape the questions. I just hope Colin doesn't end up like Barry Jennings before being able to answer.
So I had been wondering how the PfT were taking Gallop's latest courtroom failure. I had wondered in the PfT were trying to distance themselves from this utter legal gong show.
Apparently not. By Robby's words above it would appear that they believe that Gallop's problem lies not with her legal representation but with a system that is unfairly stacked against her.
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Old 13th July 2011, 11:24 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Army of One View Post
I loved this quote from Balsamo-
Now, I know next to nothing about Cheap Shot, but it seems he's hardly been reluctant to answer questions related to the events of 9/11.
This is true. I think this link needs to be re-posted of "Cheap Shot" not talking about 9/11



http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/2...FullAbstract=1
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Old 13th July 2011, 12:43 PM   #31
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Balsamo is a scumbag.
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Old 13th July 2011, 04:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by AssHat Bob
I just hope Colin doesn't end up like Barry Jennings before being able to answer.
..... I believe Jennings died of leukemia. Being in the finance area of the NWO, I am not privy to the biological weaponry recently developed.... but damn, we can GIVE people leukemia? WOW!!
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Old 13th July 2011, 07:40 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Mr.Herbert View Post
..... I believe Jennings died of leukemia. Being in the finance area of the NWO, I am not privy to the biological weaponry recently developed.... but damn, we can GIVE people leukemia? WOW!!
The NWO had to find more uses for the Space Platform *Thingie that the "Dustification death ray" sits on (ironically enough it was just sitting there collecting dust). Just a few software tweaks turned it into a leukemia ray. Then Agent Dick (redacted) got the idea of an earthquake ray into his head and now they can't seem to tear him away from the damned thing.

*it's a technical term
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Old 13th July 2011, 09:37 PM   #34
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Balsamo is nuts.
Quote:
In the email exchanges i have had with Colin, he did express concern over the growing mountain of evidence which conflicts with the govt story, but just didnt want to look into it as it appears he would just as well enjoy the rest of his life, kids and grandkids. Ignorance is bliss. This might also be the reason he doesnt want to come back as there really isnt much of a rational and benign explanation to the information we have uncovered, it may have scared him.. .who knows.
Balsamo has infinite bliss.

Who can be so dumb they believe the nonsense Balsamo dishes out?
Quote:
If we get a Judge who actually reviews the evidence (preferably one who isnt a cousin of Bush), I'm sure Colin will be called to the stand. As i said in the conversation, he wont be able to escape the questions. I just hope Colin doesn't end up like Barry Jennings before being able to answer.
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Old 14th July 2011, 10:53 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am View Post
The NWO had to find more uses for the Space Platform *Thingie that the "Dustification death ray" sits on (ironically enough it was just sitting there collecting dust). Just a few software tweaks turned it into a leukemia ray. Then Agent Dick (redacted) got the idea of an earthquake ray into his head and now they can't seem to tear him away from the damned thing.

*it's a technical term
That guy, 'Redacted" (known as Ree-Dee to his co-workers) is into just about everything
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Old 15th July 2011, 05:48 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
So I had been wondering how the PfT were taking Gallop's latest courtroom failure. I had wondered in the PfT were trying to distance themselves from this utter legal gong show.
Apparently not. By Robby's words above it would appear that they believe that Gallop's problem lies not with her legal representation but with a system that is unfairly stacked against her.
Rob tired to get hitch his wagon to the April Gallop lawsuit by saying he took his claims to court. Of course he did nothing of the sort. With this mountain of evidence he supposedly has you can only come to two conclusions. He either is not that confident that it would stand up in court or he rather try to make a quick buck off it.
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Old 17th July 2011, 11:17 AM   #37
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I had a look at the so-called *intercept* and it looks simply as though it's a consequence of the re-routing going on due to the events in NY.

I'm generating a view to show behaviour of the other aircraft, but I suggest cheapshot has a look at the rades data to see if he can shed any light on what aircraft were using the relevant transponder ID's.

I tried to have a discussion with johndoeXLC on YT (who uploaded the video) but as I was not agreeing with him, I'm now blocked

If cheapshot wants to use the resources to follow (soon-ish) no problem.
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Old 17th July 2011, 05:01 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by femr2 View Post
I had a look at the so-called *intercept* and it looks simply as though it's a consequence of the re-routing going on due to the events in NY.

...
Balsamo made up more nonsense, the aircraft are not at the same altitude, there was no intercept, no changing of planes, only one Flt 175, etc. It is another set of 11.2g, oops he changed that to 34gs, of stupid from Balsamo.
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