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17th July 2011, 05:10 PM | #1 |
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How many people are there with actual relevant expertise....
....In Architects and Engineers for 911 truth? I can't seem to find a "master" list with all of their qualifications specified, has anyone here looked into this much at all?
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17th July 2011, 05:18 PM | #2 |
Muse
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There was some posts on that awhile back I read where some people on here went through the list to see if the people still had licenses and that kind of thing. I stopped taking any of their signee's seriously the minute I saw like 2-3 who were listed as "Landscape Architects"....sorry but the kid that mows my lawn isn't exactly someone I'd believe has the necessary skills and education to refute the work of Bazant et al, NIST, the ASCE, etc etc...
The fact that AE911Truth allows "Landscape Architects" on their petition proves to me they weren't serious and only added to my belief that it's all about money for Dick Gage. It's also why I won't sign the petition of engineers that's FOR the "official story", I don't think my MCSE gives me the necessary credential to be an authority on structural engineering. |
17th July 2011, 06:46 PM | #3 |
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Isn't there an Agricultural Engineer as well?
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DoYouEverWonder - Engineers and architects don't have to design steel buildings not to collapse from gravity. They already conquered gravity when they built it. - Professional Wastrel |
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17th July 2011, 07:37 PM | #4 |
Illuminator
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I know a girl who's a toilet engineer... No really, she has a masters degree having something to do with ceramics and manufacturing and she works for American Standard. I'm sure that she's highly qualified to sign the AE911 petition. Perhaps even more so than all of the other people on there.
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"Swift, silent and deadly" was a part of my job description Upon hearing me say that my friend asked me "So you're a fart?"... About my avatar. |
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18th July 2011, 01:01 AM | #5 |
Gentleman of leisure
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Here is the list http://www2.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php#supporters. There are 4 people who have Landscape as part of their qualifications. Example
Regine C. Naeckel
Quote:
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18th July 2011, 07:33 AM | #6 |
Scholar
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Thank you, this is exactly the type of list I was looking for. I'm no expert on this subject though, so can anybody throw me a rough number indicating how many people in AE911 actually have enough professional expertise to discuss 911 scientifically? I'm not sure which of those expertise on the list to take seriously or not, like many of you do. Just a rough estimated number out of the 1,500 + people would be the conclusion to this thread, for me anyway.
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18th July 2011, 03:27 PM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Look Here For a Commentary on the Latest News from AE911Truth
In that thread, I have posted details on the licensed professional engineers from the "petition". I am checking their status, state by state, as my time allows. Haven't finished the stats yet, but this is the picture that emerges:
Given the above estimates, the number of active, licensed and relevant experts on the petition should be around 85, or under 6% of the famous "1500+". I haven't looked at the architects, or those with an engineering background who are not licensed engineers. There has been some debate going back and forth how much an architect would know compared to a structural engineer. There are around 250 licensed architects on the petition. However, since civil, structural and fire protection engineering are always security-related activities and require licenses in all US state to be practised, I figure it is reasonable to dismiss the non-licensed US "professionals" (ca. 70 with background in architecture and 530 in engineering). The ca. 330 non-US professionals are a mixed bunch and hard to assess. |
18th July 2011, 04:05 PM | #8 |
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Just the type of response I was looking for, thank you. Anyway, an architect posted on a blog claiming that the towers looked nothing like a controlled demolition. She then went on to say that it doesn't matter what she thinks anyway, because architecture is a Bachelor or 'Arts', not science. She stated she was just as qualified as anybody to discuss a buildings collapsing.
Is she being too hard on herself/ architects in general? If not, think I think it's fair for you to leave them out of the equation the way you did. |
18th July 2011, 04:18 PM | #9 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It depends. I am sure an architect who has constructed highrises would be more qualified than a civil engineer who builds roads and nothing else. An architect who specialises in cottages however would fare bad against the civil eng. who does the steel pylons of bridges.
In the end neither their qualifications nor their numbers matter so much, but what arguments they have to support their stance, and what they do about it. I haven's systematically looked at their personal statements. Most who express an opinion on who dunnit do indeed believe in some sort of inside job/demolition, but the petition, as it is worded, would leave room for those who think the common story is probably alright, but allow some room for residual doubt that a new investigation ought to remove. |
18th July 2011, 04:24 PM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Also, my dismissing the engineering professionals and the foreigners is somewhat light-handed. The main reason I don't count and check them is that there are no standardized resources to research these people, comparable to the PE registers of licensed engineers that are kept by every state. I can know that the 190 or so active PEs are ca. 1 in 5000 out of all active PEs in the country, but I have no way of counting or guessing how many people there are with some kind of engineering degree, and I have no way of checking individually what their professional standing is.
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20th July 2011, 03:09 PM | #11 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Zero qualifications required to be apathetic and fall for lies. A&E drones, over qualified to support moronic delusions plagiarized by Gage. A&E drones, as qualified as Bigfoot believers.
Qualifications to Join Gage: 1. Fail to engage rational thinking 2. Fall for stupid in a single signing. 3. Over qualified to fall for fraud. 4. 10 years of ignorance on 911. |
20th July 2011, 04:48 PM | #12 |
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There are 4 people who have Landscape as part of their qualifications.
Landscape? Cut lawns when was a kid - dies that qualify me for A&E911? |
21st July 2011, 07:20 AM | #13 | ||
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To see what disciplines NIST considered important to their investigation please refer to whom they hired to participate in the studies, and their qualifications:
http://wtc.nist.gov/solicitations/ Heavy on SEs, no architects (that I could see). Architects take structural engineering courses in college, nowhere near as many as CEs or SEs of course. I took 3 semesters of wood, steel, concrete, and foundations design. We became acquainted with most of the applicable forces and drew structural designs showing our calculations for homework and tests. I still have my ink drawn blueprints (!) not bluelines at home and my Steel Handbook (Manual of Steel Construction-1970, $12.05) that I still use to this day. For dimensions of shapes only. Architects are familiar with the forces/stresses lingo and concepts but weak in the math and integrated design. That's why we need and hire structural engineers. Architects are like the conductor of an orchestra, we make the tout ensemble out of the parts. We coordinate owners, code compliance, contractors, MEP, structural, civil engineers to produce the building. Architects can even help structural engineers keep out of trouble. So one day (15, or was it 25 years ago) I and Roy (structural engineer) were at the site where the pile driver had just begun to drive piles. Preengineered metal building big office/warehouse; three big drinks mix syrup s.s. tanks about 10,000 gals. each or so at 8# / gallon; like 40 tons each. The stakes (wood stakes with red flags on them) marking the piles location were placed. Roy and I are chit chatting. Pile clusters under columns 20 feet apart, pile supported grade beams 10 feet on center. Roy, I say, where are the piles under the tanks? @#%$ he replies and calculates and sketches the additional piles right there. His professional liability insurance premium remained the same the following year. The contractor, permits , contractor project manager, owner, contractor superintendent, pile driver had not picked this up. The point of the story is that Architects can understand the big picture, can "feel" when something doesn't look or sound right, and where the MIHOPers' claims ring false. Some people we know have opined that SEs design demolition "weak spots" into all high rise buildings for future demolition. Carp. Not on any of my jobs. Structural engineers are the best source to comment on incompetent structural claims about CD. Architects are the best source to comment on naked girls in art class and why the cute ones prefer us over the pocket protectors. Bottom line for MIHOPers: In your guts you know they're nuts.
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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21st July 2011, 11:31 AM | #14 |
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Quote:
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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21st July 2011, 01:52 PM | #15 |
Illuminator
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Just recommended to the mods that this thread be merged with any number of the other threads started on this same topic.
Gage's petition's signatures are nearly 4 years old - are they still valid? http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=200674 Questions about the "Truth" Movement's "Experts" http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=207228 AE911Truth and the actual # of engineers in America... http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=129163 Most detailed scientific papers for and against controlled demolition http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=198213 Q's about AE911T http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=196132 Truthers: Structural Engineering and Physics Expertise in the Analysis of the WTC http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=190451 AE 911 Truth at Full Juggernaut Strength http://www.internationalskeptics.com...165029&page=20 |
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“Much of the 9/11 story has not been told to the public" - Steven Badger, attorney for insurance litigators affected by the WTC disaster. |
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21st July 2011, 01:56 PM | #16 |
Illuminator
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Nice gratuitous naked lady pic, Basque Arch.
Wait, I think I have a picture of a monkey somewhere.... Yes, I do! |
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“Much of the 9/11 story has not been told to the public" - Steven Badger, attorney for insurance litigators affected by the WTC disaster. |
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21st July 2011, 02:31 PM | #17 |
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21st July 2011, 03:14 PM | #18 |
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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21st July 2011, 03:40 PM | #19 |
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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21st July 2011, 11:44 PM | #21 |
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22nd July 2011, 09:14 AM | #22 |
Illuminator
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Architects aren't research scientists, and neither are engineers (unless they have advanced training in research science). Discovering what really happened on 9/11 takes research science.
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The World Trade Center did not collapse. It was turned into dust while it was standing there, and then the dust fell to the ground. |
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22nd July 2011, 12:37 PM | #23 |
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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22nd July 2011, 12:44 PM | #24 |
Illuminator
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If you read the NIST report, you'll notice that it is fraudulent.
It purports to study the "collapse" of the WTC, but it stops at the moment conditions for collapse were initiated. What this means is that this study (began 13 months after the attacks) did not analyze what it was supposed to analyze. Research scientists are the people who needed to do this. Not architects, and not engineers. They don't have the right education. |
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The World Trade Center did not collapse. It was turned into dust while it was standing there, and then the dust fell to the ground. |
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22nd July 2011, 12:49 PM | #25 |
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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23rd July 2011, 07:09 PM | #26 |
Illuminator
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23rd July 2011, 08:03 PM | #27 |
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A box of one thousand toothpick falls off a shelf and scatters on the floor.
Choice A - try to determine why the box fell off the shelf to prevent it from happening again. Choice B - try to determine how each toothpick landed in the exact spot that it did. Engineers, Architects etc will select 'A' every time. Troofers will always select 'B'..then claim that selecting 'A' is "fraudulent" |
23rd July 2011, 08:12 PM | #28 |
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No, "research science" was needed......just statics and mechanics of materials, solid mechanics, structural dynamics. probability and reliability, design of steel structures, structural system testing and model correlation, structural analysis, structural stability, and a few other related topics. |
24th July 2011, 01:57 PM | #29 |
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24th July 2011, 03:37 PM | #30 |
Illuminator
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100,000 ce
Architect: "After 98,000 years, we are proud to announce we have completed the study of how the entire collapse of the World Trade Towers collapsed." Engineer: "We painstakingly modeled every nut, bolt, beam, and seam and can finally, without any bit of doubt, authoritatively state that it was not an inside job or a controlled demolition." Architect: "Based on these extensive photos taken during construction and of the debris pile, we proclaim the controversy dead." Grand Wazoo of the Church of Truth Dylan Corey Anders Christopher April Gage the XCIVth: "You never counted the Holy Red Chips Relic in our vault! Inside Jobbity Job!!!11!!11" BANG BANG Architect: "Any other comments or questions?" |
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