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Old 1st August 2011, 06:52 AM   #81
RedIbis
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Horse hockey.

I will give you an example of how it is, in fact your camp that is doing that. Take idiot boy MacQueen's analysis of statements regarding "explosions" to fit his own batcrap crazy theory about bombs. He quotes Karen Deshore about explosions on the street in front of the north tower and her first impression that there were bombs in the sewers. Deshore, of course follows that immediately to state that she realized almost at once that it was cars cooking off. Ondrovic left the building by the same route, saw the same thing happening, and also formed the impression that someone was pushing buttons and blowing stuff up around her. It is difficult to tell whether she ever grasped what was happening.

But that dingy monk counts the statements of both women to mean that there were explosives detonating on the streets.

The useless drongo should go back to the monastery and read the Tripitaka and stay out of political affairs. There is no place for jerks like him in forensic discussion.

This is actually the whole problem with 9/11 twoofery in general. Most of it is garbage.
Where in Deshore's testimony does she say that after seeing the flashes and hearing the pops around the bldg that she realized it was cars cooking off? You're most likely confusing her report of arriving on the scene to see a "car" already on fire before the S. Tower collapses and before she sees the flashes around the N. Tower before the second collapse.
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Old 1st August 2011, 09:47 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Where in Deshore's testimony does she say that after seeing the flashes and hearing the pops around the bldg that she realized it was cars cooking off? You're most likely confusing her report of arriving on the scene to see a "car" already on fire before the S. Tower collapses and before she sees the flashes around the N. Tower before the second collapse.
Where is it written you take what people say and make up moronic claims of an inside job? 911 truth, perpetual failure.
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Old 1st August 2011, 10:12 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Where is it written you take what people say and make up moronic claims of an inside job? 911 truth, perpetual failure.
You'd think that they would get tired of failing after ten years. I once saw a bull terrier die rather than let go of another dog's leg. Tenacity is not always good for you.
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Old 1st August 2011, 02:50 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Where is it written you take what people say and make up moronic claims of an inside job? 911 truth, perpetual failure.
I think I'll wait til Lefty explains himself rather than dive into one of your word soups.
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Old 1st August 2011, 03:39 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by redibis View Post
where in deshore's testimony does she say that after seeing the flashes and hearing the pops around the bldg that she realized it was cars cooking off? You're most likely confusing her report of arriving on the scene to see a "car" already on fire before the s. Tower collapses and before she sees the flashes around the n. Tower before the second collapse.
I don't know what he's referencing either. I'm not familiar with the exact testimony or contents thereof, and just started reading it to get an idea of what thestimony covered. Apparently it's one of those witness statements used for proving explosives that isn't modified and requires a more comprehensive reading of the interview to get a better picture. Based on statements like these:

Quote:
so here these explosions are getting bigger and louder and bigger and louder and told everybody if this building totally explodes still unaware that the other building had collapsed im going in the water said can swim im taking somebody with me

Quote:
My back was towards the building trying to push everybody up
grassy hill was there and up underneath that overpass when somebody just simply shouted and have no idea who it was its blowing.

I had no clue what was going on, i never turned around because sound came from somewhere that i never heard before. Some people compared it with an airplane. It was the worst sound of rolling sound, not thunder. I cant explain what it was, all i know is -- and a force started to come hit me in my back, i cant explain it you had to be there. All i know is i had to run because i thought there was an explosion


Quote:
i was unaware what was happening. I thought it was just major explosion, i didnt know the building was collapsing.
It's pretty clear to me that he/she thought a lot of things while also being unaware of at least one of the collapses. While the quote itself was simply extracted from the article, the context provided by other statements shows that like many other people she was very likely confused which isn't surprising. Evidence of explosive charges blowing off across the entire building? Not so much.

If this is as compelling as you apparently must believe it is, then I have to question why more than half of Bill smith's quote offerings were altered so heavily to attain the same apparent effect; and why it has to be repeated by others in his group. As always the original content can be found here: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110192.PDF

Some of the quotes on this post may noit be exact... the pdf content wasn't copying cleanly when I pasted it over for the quotes.
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Old 1st August 2011, 05:13 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
I think I'll wait til Lefty explains himself rather than dive into one of your word soups.
Hopeless.
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Old 1st August 2011, 09:44 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear View Post
I don't know what he's referencing either. I'm not familiar with the exact testimony or contents thereof, and just started reading it to get an idea of what thestimony covered. Apparently it's one of those witness statements used for proving explosives that isn't modified and requires a more comprehensive reading of the interview to get a better picture. Based on statements like these:








It's pretty clear to me that he/she thought a lot of things while also being unaware of at least one of the collapses. While the quote itself was simply extracted from the article, the context provided by other statements shows that like many other people she was very likely confused which isn't surprising. Evidence of explosive charges blowing off across the entire building? Not so much.

If this is as compelling as you apparently must believe it is, then I have to question why more than half of Bill smith's quote offerings were altered so heavily to attain the same apparent effect; and why it has to be repeated by others in his group. As always the original content can be found here: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110192.PDF

Some of the quotes on this post may noit be exact... the pdf content wasn't copying cleanly when I pasted it over for the quotes.
It's one thing to point out someone's mistake, it's another to berate and namecall as Lefty was doing and then commit the error he was accusing McQueen of. Lefty is confused. To whit:
Quote:
He quotes Karen Deshore about explosions on the street in front of the north tower and her first impression that there were bombs in the sewers. Deshore, of course follows that immediately to state that she realized almost at once that it was cars cooking off.
But Deshore is talking about a car on fire before either tower collapses. The flashes and pops that she reported going around the tower occur before the second collapse. Lefty assumed that McQueen had to be lying because he's a Twoofer, instead of just taking a much closer look at the sequence as Deshore reported it.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 03:55 AM   #88
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I looked for the statement Macqueen used that is most common and the one I posted came up. The name calling may be bad taste but as he correctly points out Macqueen analyzes the testimony to mean that bombs were present, when a complete reading of the oral history indicates otherwise. Regardless of whether he's "twoofer" or not that's disingenuous practice. If that were the only one he used and interpreted then that might be one thing; he does it with multiple statements however, not just Deshore
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Old 2nd August 2011, 04:55 AM   #89
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MacQueen uses Ondrovic's statements that there were explosions coming up from the ground as though there were somebody pushing buttons to set off bombs to support a position that there was somebody pushing buttons. But Deshore and Ondrovic were in the same location and Deshore expalins the blasts at gorund level as cars cooking off. Deshore's position appears the more accurate to me for two reasons. Cars were burning, and they do cook off if nobody fights the fires. Deshore was in a more focused mental state than Ondrovic. Ondrovic FREAKED.

Bear in mind that when Deshore describes the collapse of the second tower, she had a lost of caustic, irritating foreign material in her eyes, so she wasn't seeing very clearly. As for lights popping around the collapse zone, bear in mind that the collapse of the north tower did express a great deal of flame on all sides. This is not in the slightest bit unusual or unexpected when numerous floors involved in a serious fire start collapsing on top of each other.

Stating that it sounded like an explosion says bloody little. When we encounter an event or object or livin g organism of any sort for the first time, we all tend to place it is categories which we have already encountered. An "explosion" would seem to fit, if you do not know how big the fires were.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 08:57 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
But Deshore and Ondrovic were in the same location and Deshore expalins the blasts at gorund level as cars cooking off.
Ok, this is the second time I'm asking you to post the quote that makes you think that the blasts Deshore reports were from the cars cooking off. I already explained that you have the sequence wrong. Now, if you purposely misrepresent what Capt. Deshore says, you are intentionally lying.

Again, the car that Deshore sees burning occurs before either bldg collapses. The flashes and popping that she sees and hears around the N. Tower happen much after she sees the car burning, after the collapse of the S. Tower.

When you do decide to provide a quote, make sure you use the page numbers from this document.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html...IC/9110192.PDF
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Old 2nd August 2011, 09:09 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear View Post
I looked for the statement Macqueen used that is most common and the one I posted came up. The name calling may be bad taste but as he correctly points out Macqueen analyzes the testimony to mean that bombs were present, when a complete reading of the oral history indicates otherwise. Regardless of whether he's "twoofer" or not that's disingenuous practice. If that were the only one he used and interpreted then that might be one thing; he does it with multiple statements however, not just Deshore
Is this the video you are talking about ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4dVo5QgYg
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Old 2nd August 2011, 06:14 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Is this the video you are talking about ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4dVo5QgYg
Okay, idiot boy MacQueen uses Rivera's description of a sound "like bombs going off" to support the theory that there were bombs.

Rivera could not see what was happening outside, but it should be clear to anyone with a room temp IQ that he is describing what he heard when the south tower collapsed.

It did not sound at all like demolitions charges outside. Those who only experienced it as sound and impact thought it was one singular blast. That is was not an HE blast is demonstrated in that they can mostly still hear.

Stupid of the mind-numbed monk to present that as evidence.
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Old 4th August 2011, 09:08 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Is this the video you are talking about ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4dVo5QgYg
Ah so with the blasts you'd have some explosive residue to show us then?
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