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25th August 2016, 09:17 AM | #441 |
Devilish Dictionarian
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25th August 2016, 10:01 AM | #442 |
Critical Thinker
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Hey Ziggy, the initial scope of the independent study was very simple. Separate some suitable chips from the existing samples and submit them for examination. Given that the separation process was already well documented from the Active Thermitic Materials paper, this should have taken no more than a weekend. That initial proposal is what your donors thought they were funding. There was no mention of additional samples or new equipment or Mark spending 4 years and counting doing...something.
Separate chips, submit to an independent lab for testing, fully account for every dollar spent. That's it. What you're doing now is defrauding the hapless suckers that donated money. At what point does Mark admit that his attempt at a simple independent study has gone too far afield and simply refund the donor money? Another year? Another 3 years? Or should your donors make peace with the fact that they will never see a dime of their money back? |
25th August 2016, 10:04 AM | #443 |
Master Poster
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It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that he is just wasting his time and money.
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If they have questions about nano-thermite, why are they too lazy to do real research? If they had done so, there would be no questions. They would have determined from knowledge obtained from reputable sources why nano-thermite could not have been responsible for the collape of the WTC buildings. Were you aware that 1/2 tons of thermite was unable to cut a vehicle in two sections? Now, let's take a look at the bulkiness of 1500 pounds of thermite just to burn through two steel legs of a tower. 1500 pounds of thermite needed to burn two steel legs https://www.metabunk.org/sk/Popular_...229_103558.jpg Did you really think that several truckloads of nano-thermite could have been transported above the 70th floors of the WTC Towers at the impact locations and remained intact on the steel columns when the impacts were so severe that they dislodged fire protection from their steel structures?
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RJ Lee Group Dust Signature Report http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/t...Morphology.pdf https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMi....org_rjlee.jpg To sum that up, no evidence of thermite or nano-thermite found in the dust samples of the RJ Lee Group. Have you ever wondered why demolition companies do not use thermite to demolish tall steel frame buildings during explosive implosion operations?
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Thanks to gullible truthers who are too lazy to do homework, Richard Gage of AE911Truth has been lauging all the way to the bank. It is apparent that you haven't read the damaging comments of those who have worked for AE911Truth in the past. |
25th August 2016, 10:24 AM | #444 |
Illuminator
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Wrong pasta. With a special device, it would only take a few pounds of thermite to cut through a steel beam. You are also assuming that hypothetical thermite in the WTC would have been used to cut steel. I'm wondering if something like that could be used to pre-weaken steel before a final small blast kicks it out of place (thermite can be formulated to burn very slowly).
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25th August 2016, 10:28 AM | #445 |
Master Poster
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You are living in the world of Hollywood fiction, not reality. What National Geographic has to say about thermite and 9/11/2001 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhMBjxyH9eg . |
25th August 2016, 11:28 AM | #446 |
Illuminator
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Finally, an Apology From the National Geographic Channel by KEVIN RYAN
Johnathan Cole's homemade thermate cutter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g Also, I think I remember Crazy Chainsaw once claimed that he made a similar thermite device once using a small amount. |
25th August 2016, 11:32 AM | #447 |
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You use Kevin Ryan as a source?? What a joke! You just don't seem to understand that you have been duped and it seems that you are unaware why demolition companies use cutter charges, not thermtie. Once again, you are living in a world of Holllywood fiction. Just to let you know that your link is another prime example of how the truth movement has made a mockery of itself. |
25th August 2016, 11:40 AM | #448 |
Skeptic not Atheist
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Fact is, the donors are not the ones asking for updates. They don't need them because a promise of progress is good enough to keep the faith alive.
There's no real doubt that any chip sent is going to found to be paint. Every independent analysis has found this to be the case. A "truther" even did independent testing and they concluded the chips must have been switched in the mail. My bet is Basile gave up and is hoping to get on with his life. |
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25th August 2016, 11:54 AM | #449 |
Illuminator
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25th August 2016, 11:58 AM | #450 |
Critical Thinker
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25th August 2016, 12:01 PM | #451 |
Critical Thinker
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25th August 2016, 12:06 PM | #452 |
Skeptic not Atheist
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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25th August 2016, 12:28 PM | #453 | |||
Penultimate Amazing
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Posts: 18,667
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Hello Ziggi,
your blog "http://nanothermite911.blogspot.com" started on December 11, 2012, with an article "Fund Raiser for New Objective Study of WTC Dust". The part that actually talks about Mark's upcoming study and the fundraiser links to: http://aneta.org/markbasile_org/study/ That link is dead now, but you know, we know that "Aneta" is Rick Shaddock's website and project. It seems you were piggy-backing Aneta, and that actually Rick was the original fundraiser. Please comment on this! (The "Debunking the Debunkers" blog had its first article on this on Dec 01, 2012, and it, too, refered to Rick's "Aneta" for further details. Quote: "If you feel like chipping in a couple of bucks for the new, single-blind study" - Mark isn't doing anything single-blind these days, as JM Talboo promised. On Dec. 11, 2012, another article by JM was about Rick talking about Mark's study and the fundraiser on "Free fall radio" - again linking "Aneta".) (Unfortunately, Rick has excluded his domain from the internet archive "archive.org".) You and JM wrote back then: "Find out ... why we need more dust, money and independent scientists...You clearly, personally (you, Ziggi) back then raised the expectation that 100% the analysis would be done by independent labs - NOT by Mark himself. Mark would be at most selecting the specimens. Clearly, by apparently doing analysis himself (dependently), not via independent labs, Mark is ignoring and breaking that expectation. Please comment on this! Remember how Mark himself explained, in December 2012, what his approach was:
Go to 40:22 minutes: Host: "How is it different from the studies you've done before?""Somebody else running equipment" - why is Mark running equipment, and not somebody else?? Last, but not least, we all remember the two year "Mark Basile Progress Report, August 2014" that Mark had published at Rick's website. It promosed in clear terms: "Once the best candidates are found, work will move to the phase where funds will be expended using independent facilities. Once funds begin to be spent monthly accountings will be made, no funds have been spent and all will be accounted for publicly."Ziggi, you now tell us that "the money will most likely not be accounted for until it has all been spent. Some of it may have been spent already." - in other words, that the promise will be consciously, deliberately broken - but you provide no reason for breaking the promise. Please do so now! I understand that Rick Shaddock is a donor, and had lost patience at some point. I'll ask him if he agrees with what you say. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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25th August 2016, 12:30 PM | #454 |
Master Poster
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It doesn't take a rocket scientist to debunk Kevin Ryan, just common sense is all that is needed. Kevin Ryan debunked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pJ6cS3GZBw 1000 pounds of thermite could not cut a SUV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIpa1K51os4 . |
25th August 2016, 12:56 PM | #455 |
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25th August 2016, 01:03 PM | #456 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Skyeagle409:
Why do you keep derailing these threads with long treatises on how much you know about demolition? Please stick to the subject matter and carry the debunking to the appropriate thread. |
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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25th August 2016, 01:40 PM | #457 |
Illuminator
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Posts: 3,128
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The fact of the matter is a dust sample sent to an independent lab who then separated red chips using a magnet and then having a look at them using optical and electron microscopy would take less than a day and cost less than $1000.
It's an afternoons work to do that analysis. Maybe another afternoon for a couple of FTIR test. Then a day to gather the info and email it. The reason Basile hasn't sent a single sample is he knows that if he did the lab would conclude that the red/gray chips are paint adhered to oxidised steel and hence show how wrong he, Harrit and the other truthers were when they did the farce of a Bentham paper. He knows the chips are paint, which is why he refuses to send a single one to a lab. No dust sample will ever see an independent lab. |
25th August 2016, 02:12 PM | #458 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
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What fraction of 1% of 1% of the 1st world population do you suppose has even heard of him? 1%?
What a laugh. Basile shows all the signs of being a petty crook, safe in the knowledge that *nobody cares*. Meanwhile, if you're still here, did you ever address that big ol' question about how a paint-thin layer of thermitic material could possibly damage massive steel members? We're waiting to be illuminated on that subject ... waiting ... waiting .... |
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25th August 2016, 02:25 PM | #459 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I did email Rick, with Ziggi and JM Talboo in Cc.
Rick did respond already (and fixed the link I reported broken). Since he is a banned member here, I must not post on his behalf, but I can say that he does not corroborate Ziggi's claims, and is one unhappy donor, so Ziggi's claim that "our money donors have all remained patient" is already unmasked as untrue. We need to see evidence from Ziggi that he is in fact in contact with Mark Basile, has in fact run the fundraising, etc. All these are unsupported bare assertions as of now. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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25th August 2016, 02:41 PM | #460 |
Muse
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MicahJava, it appears you are trying to say that skyeagle409's video, "What National Geographic has to say about thermite and 9/11/2001," was "retracted" by NatGeo, who "apologized" for making that video.
This is not true. In fact, Kevin Ryan's assertion that NatGeo was going to "apologize" was pure speculation:
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Why are you posting here, anyway? You've lost all credibility after claiming that fire isn't real. That's some of the most obvious trolling I've ever seen on this board. That's all I have to say on these matters. |
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Ergo beedunked here. #FalseFlagCluelessAtPhysics. Skeptical Inquirer July/August 2011 issue on 9/11 Truth |
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25th August 2016, 02:43 PM | #461 |
Master Poster
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25th August 2016, 02:56 PM | #462 |
Illuminator
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"Hey Jim, these people are saying that thermite could be used to melt through giant steel beams. Should we try making a thermite cutter charge that's firmly focused on a beam, similar to regular explosive demolition charges?"
"Naaaah just get some heavy duty trash bags of thermite and light them near the column!" |
25th August 2016, 03:04 PM | #463 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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25th August 2016, 03:06 PM | #464 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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25th August 2016, 03:06 PM | #465 |
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25th August 2016, 04:17 PM | #466 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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25th August 2016, 04:20 PM | #467 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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25th August 2016, 04:44 PM | #468 |
Illuminator
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My own working hypothesis is that he (or an independent lab hired by him) already has done some analysis and he doesn't like the results.
And it makes me wonder if the "opposition" that has been reported has to do with the results rather than with the willingness to do the analysis. |
25th August 2016, 04:44 PM | #469 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK |
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25th August 2016, 06:19 PM | #470 |
Philosopher
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Yes I did but only a fool would mix thermite oxygen cutting, and fire.
The easiest way to cut steel is too burn though it with oxygen, as in the original bridge girder cutting tool show in Jones's original paper. The Areojel thermite mixture claimed by Jones & Harrit would be as harmful to the steel as unpoped pop corn. Jones thought that Areojel thermite was explosive because it could do pressure work. It makes a good fire work propellent. However it was never an explosive. |
25th August 2016, 06:28 PM | #471 |
Philosopher
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DDuplicate.
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25th August 2016, 06:33 PM | #472 |
Philosopher
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25th August 2016, 07:05 PM | #473 |
Muse
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25th August 2016, 10:09 PM | #474 |
Critical Thinker
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Oystein, this blog you refer to http://nanothermite911.blogspot.com is in fact run by JM Talboo just as he runs our main blog 911debunkers.blogspot...I contribute to both but cannot call them "mine" - that honor belongs to JMT. I and JMT posted ALL the original articles and updates for the fundraiser via these blogspots and Rick Shaddock simply copied them to his ANETA page. Our blogspot articles referred readers to Rick´s ANETA page because it hosted the donation page for the project http://aneta.org/911Experiments_com/WTCdust/index.htm - that was Rick´s part in all this - and since Talboo and I were handling the fundraising and promotion for the study we obviously referred readers to the page where they could donate money http://aneta.org/911Experiments_com/WTCdust/index.htm. Some of our short promotional articles said something like "if you want to know more about the study/why you should donate then clink this link" and that would refer them to the ANETA page that hosted the donation...and if people did go there and choose to read more about the study before donating money Rick had link named
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Keep scrolling down Ricks donation page and you see that Rick provides links for study updates, again linking to Talboo/Zugam blogspot page and a separate link to a status update report from Basile given to me then posted by Talboo on that blogspot page - again Rick just reposts it as his own PDF:
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WOW Oystein, how impressive, you accuse me here of having fooled donors when I ran the fundraiser yet you also claim a couple of hours later in another post that there is no evidence that I ever ran the fundraising..http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=459
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What non-sense. Rick posted a partial email from me as a project update a few months ago where this was discussed. Basile is too busy to meet deadlines/schedules for regular project updates as originally planned so the plan changed. You know this because someone posted a comment on this forum to notify you all of this update: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=334 All the money goes to independent tests as promised and it will all be accounted for once it has been spent as promised. The only difference is that the accounting will most likely be done in one fell swoop once it is all done instead of in installments as money is spent. No need to get your nickers all twisted up dear. I was referring to donors from the general public not people that worked on the project. Rick recently assured both JMT and Basile that no donors have asked for their money back. |
25th August 2016, 10:30 PM | #475 |
Master Poster
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As far as I am concern, earlier dust sample reports had summed it up fairly well so there is no need to continue investigations. It seems that ignorance runs rampant in their camp because if they understood anything about thermite, nano-thermite, structural steel and structural load redistribution, they would understand why the discussion and calls for further investigations are unwarranted and unnecessary. |
25th August 2016, 10:48 PM | #476 |
Graduate Poster
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26th August 2016, 12:01 AM | #477 |
Master Poster
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It is amazing how gullible some folks are and how they easily knee down to these con artist. Those same con artist have been laughing all the way to the bank over the years because they know they can continue to prey on such gullible folks in order to lighten the load of their wallets. The red/gray chip debate had me shaking me head in disbeilef as I tried to understand how some folks could have been so gullible as to believe such nonsense. Simply amazing!! |
26th August 2016, 02:26 AM | #478 |
Philosopher
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That does seem to be the case, and furthermore it appears the reason Basile now knows the chips aren't thermite is because he changed the terms of the project to include his own pretesting. And the obvious reason he did that was because he realized, just a little too late, that sending paint chips to a lab would kill the thermite idiocy (and his ego investment in it). And the reason he can't find any thermite in the paint chips is also pretty obvious, despite Ziggi's laughable attempt to blow smoke up everyone's butts.
What we have here, then, is a test of intellectual integrity, and Basile and Ziggi are failing. |
26th August 2016, 06:06 AM | #479 |
Illuminator
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Location: nyc
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Of course correct... with all the money that AE raises... they could fund several studies of samples from the 911 samples to multiple independent labs who have no skin in the game.
Dear Lab, Please find samples of some material we would like a comprehensive chemical analysis of. I thank you in advance for your timely report. Thank you, John Doe. Easy peasy! |
26th August 2016, 06:49 AM | #480 |
Muse
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If some truther has dust from the world trade center and can prove its chain of custody and that it hasn't been tampered with, I will personally pay for its chemical composition to be tested in a reputable independent lab. We could have it done next week.
This may be the saddest and most transparent long con of them all. How people can look at 6 years of failure to do an independent study and not see the conmen for what they are is beyond me. |
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