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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Tony Abbott

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Old 9th May 2018, 12:03 AM   #1561
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I'd need to see the wording of any proposed change before I decide which way to vote in a referendum. Section 44 is complex and difficult, and I wouldn't want to respond in a knee-jerk fashion.
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:28 AM   #1562
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Barnaby Joyce (and others?) was not the Senate. No reason for others to be disqualified who are also in the lower house.




That would still need a referendum. The wording is not important. It just needs to be made simple to be declared eligible. If it is not fixed then, even if procedures in the major parties are implemented, then eventually the reasons for them would be forgotten. And independants may also be caught. Plus those procedures may stop good people from standing. For example Lionking mentions Bob Hawke. Suppose the day after he was persuaded to stand for parliament he mentioned that his parents were born in the UK and it was too late to fix? Australian history would be a lot different.
Barnaby was one of the bozos I referenced.
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Old 9th May 2018, 04:32 AM   #1563
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
That would still need a referendum. The wording is not important. It just needs to be made simple to be declared eligible.
The wording is everything. Why do you think that the high court was able to stuff the MPs around so much?
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Old 9th May 2018, 05:30 AM   #1564
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Four by-elections are going to be held because of this, on top of Tim Hammond's resignation for family reasons.

In terms of by-elections this parliament is now equal to the 37th parliament. At this rate they might equal the number of by-elections held during the 20th parliament where 9 MPs died. (There was one resignation leading to a total of 10 by-elections in that term.)

I think the Mayo (SA) by-election will be an interesting one, especially since it includes the state seat of Mawson which fell to Labor in the last state election despite being a notional Liberal seat. I think the Liberal party will try and capitalise on the failure of Xenophon at the state level to win the seat back for the party. The question I have is will Labor preference Centre Alliance before the Liberals in order to weaken the Liberals? The seat is technically Marginal, at 54.97 versus the Liberals, but has there been enough change to give the Liberals the ~5% needed to win?

Longman (QLD), Braddon (TAS), Perth, and Fremantle (both WA obviously) are the four Labor seats up for grabs. Fremantle is a safe seat needing an ~8% swing to the Liberals for them to pick up the seat. Longman is the most marginal, a 0.8% swing to the Liberals would allow them to regain the seat. I expect the Liberals to also campaign hard here. A swing of 2.21% would see Braddon change hands, while Perth needs a 3.34% swing for the same thing to happen. With the exception of Perth I think the most likely scenario would be the incumbents who have resigned to re-contest the seats, which does give them a bit of an advantage.
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Old 9th May 2018, 02:46 PM   #1565
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Can we, as a country, just issue a vote of no confidence in this parliament?
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Old 9th May 2018, 05:21 PM   #1566
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Can we, as a country, just issue a vote of no confidence in this parliament?

I think they call those "elections".
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Old 10th May 2018, 01:44 AM   #1567
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I think they call those "elections".
Yeah, but I just want to get rid of the whole lot of them, all at once, right now. And start again.
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Old 10th May 2018, 04:19 AM   #1568
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But you know they aren't going to because the Liberals know they'll lose.
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Old 10th May 2018, 04:36 AM   #1569
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Can we, as a country, just issue a vote of no confidence in this parliament?
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I think they call those "elections".
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yeah, but I just want to get rid of the whole lot of them, all at once, right now. And start again.
A person in King James 1's time had the same idea and attempted to implement it. Trouble was someone talked and he was burned at the stake.

Pity such a thing is slightly illegal. Slightly as in slightly pregnant.
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Old 10th May 2018, 02:23 PM   #1570
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
A person in King James 1's time had the same idea and attempted to implement it. Trouble was someone talked and he was burned at the stake.

Pity such a thing is slightly illegal. Slightly as in slightly pregnant.
Yeah, I can't wait for November.
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Old 10th May 2018, 02:40 PM   #1571
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yeah, but I just want to get rid of the whole lot of them, all at once, right now. And start again.
That sounds like a good idea. You should blow up parliament.

Maybe in the years to come we may celebrate "arthwollipot's night" with fireworks they way we used to celebrate "Guy Fawkes night".
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Old 10th May 2018, 02:45 PM   #1572
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I will live on in infamy, silly rhymes, and strange masks.
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Old 10th May 2018, 07:27 PM   #1573
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I will live on in infamy, silly rhymes, and strange masks.
Even better yet, you will put all previous terrorist acts in Australia to shame.
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Old 11th May 2018, 07:00 AM   #1574
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Even better yet, you will put all previous terrorist acts in Australia to shame.

He wouldn't be a terrorist. He'd be a freedom fighter.
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Old 14th May 2018, 05:01 AM   #1575
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The Liberals won't be contesting the WA by-elections. Not surprised since Perth and Fremantle were the safest of the seats up for grabs.
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Old 14th May 2018, 09:33 AM   #1576
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
The Liberals won't be contesting the WA by-elections. Not surprised since Perth and Fremantle were the safest of the seats up for grabs.
More to the point, a swing against the coalition in a by-election would bad news for the next federal election.

Meanwhile, although Labor still leads 51-49 in the polls, Turnbull has increased his lead over Shorten as preferred PM to 46-34.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...4140e04449b0d7
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Old 14th May 2018, 11:10 PM   #1577
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It's not the Preferred Prime Minister stat that matters though, is it? The people elect the party, not the Prime Minister. If Labor wins a majority of seats in the next election, it won't matter if Satan is the leader of the party, he'll still be Prime Minister.
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Old 15th May 2018, 12:23 AM   #1578
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It's not the Preferred Prime Minister stat that matters though, is it? The people elect the party, not the Prime Minister. If Labor wins a majority of seats in the next election, it won't matter if Satan is the leader of the party, he'll still be Prime Minister.
It can be relevant. A popular leader can go around the country making speeches and gaining votes. A less popular leader needs to leave that to others. If they insist on making speeches, they may not gain the votes. This is the problem with the Labor party. They may be ahead in the polls at the moment, but come election time Turnbull can go around the country and say not much more than "vote for me, I am good. Labor is bad." He will then gain votes. Labor does not have that option. Other party members may not even want Shorten to turn up to their election meetings.
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Old 31st May 2018, 03:35 PM   #1579
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Oh dear the implosion of the Pauline (please explain) Hanson party is continuing. Pauline struggles to hold back tears as she talks of being "stabbed in the back" by an old member of the party faithful. Time she retired from politics and went back to the fish and chips shop.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-3...nation/9822456
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Old 31st May 2018, 07:19 PM   #1580
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Oh dear the implosion of the Pauline (please explain) Hanson party is continuing. Pauline struggles to hold back tears as she talks of being "stabbed in the back" by an old member of the party faithful. Time she retired from politics and went back to the fish and chips shop.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-3...nation/9822456
That is one of the consequences of a minor party with pathetic policies. Their politicians eventually see something is wrong and defect. She has lost two members and a third may go, leaving her with only two members left. That is a 50% defection rate in one term. About time Pauline took responsibility for those defections.
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Old 31st May 2018, 08:24 PM   #1581
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The schadenfreude is almost overwhelming!
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Old 1st June 2018, 04:32 PM   #1582
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Oh look! There's arth again, looking down from his elevated vantage point and drawing attention to our crass insensitivity, to the plight of Pauline Hanson.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:17 PM   #1583
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Nothing has changed. There is still the same number of troglodyte conservatives in the Senate.

And nothing will change to fix the appalling state of the Senate. Liberal, Labor, National and One Nation senators are only there because of the parties they represent. Almost everyone votes above the line. If any senator leaves a party they should be dismissed and the party in question should be allowed to replace them. I detest people like Bernardi who gets voted on a coalition ticket and just decides to create his own party. Scum.

In essence, even though I detest Hanson, I sympathise with her in this case.
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Old 1st June 2018, 07:23 PM   #1584
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Oh look! There's arth again, looking down from his elevated vantage point and drawing attention to our crass insensitivity, to the plight of Pauline Hanson.

Was he being critical?

I thought he was expressing his approval.
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Old 1st June 2018, 08:16 PM   #1585
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Was he being critical?

I thought he was expressing his approval.
Of course he was. Thor really needs to look at what people are posting.
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Old 1st June 2018, 09:34 PM   #1586
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Oh look! There's arth again, looking down from his elevated vantage point and drawing attention to our crass insensitivity, to the plight of Pauline Hanson.
Really?

I thought he was expressing his own delight.
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Old 2nd June 2018, 03:07 PM   #1587
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Was he being critical?

I thought he was expressing his approval.
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Of course he was. Thor really needs to look at what people are posting.
Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Really?

I thought he was expressing his own delight.

Whoo there! If I was wrong my sincere apologies to arth. However he did say the schadenfreude not my schadenfreude. This in response to rjh01's and my posts expressing our naked delight in Hanson's demise.
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Old 2nd June 2018, 04:42 PM   #1588
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Whoo there! If I was wrong my sincere apologies to arth. However he did say the schadenfreude not my schadenfreude. This in response to rjh01's and my posts expressing our naked delight in Hanson's demise.
I have just re read my post. Can find nothing in it that expresses delight in Hanson's demise.
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Old 2nd June 2018, 09:20 PM   #1589
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Whoo there! If I was wrong my sincere apologies to arth. However he did say the schadenfreude not my schadenfreude. This in response to rjh01's and my posts expressing our naked delight in Hanson's demise.
The only way you could possibly come to that conclusion is if you believe that I am a Hanson supporter. Which is a conclusion that is utterly beyond my ability to comprehend how you might have come to.

Or maybe it was just a knee-jerk reaction, forgetting for a moment that we aren't in the Religion forum. Arth said something, therefore he is wrong.
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Old 25th June 2018, 06:16 PM   #1590
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All children in detention in the Northern Territory are Indigenous

Quote:
All children now in detention in the Northern Territory are Aboriginal, according to data from the families department, prompting calls for reform of the justice system.

In response to questioning at an NT estimates hearing late last week, the department confirmed that “as of today, 100% of the children in detention are Aboriginal. The proportions have not changed since the royal commission.”

“There are 17 young people in Don Dale Youth detention centre and 21 in Alice Springs. Four of those in Don Dale are from the centre, two from Alice Springs and two from Tennant Creek,” the deputy chief executive of operations for the department, Jeanette Kerr, told the committee. “In terms of Indigenous children, they are all Indigenous.”
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Old 25th June 2018, 09:07 PM   #1591
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Why is that a justice system problem?
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Old 25th June 2018, 09:17 PM   #1592
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Why is that a justice system problem?
Can you not think of any reasons?
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Old 25th June 2018, 11:02 PM   #1593
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Can you not think of any reasons?
I could speculate that the people in the NT legal system are racially biased to the extent that they are more lenient to offenders who are not indigenous but otherwise I can't think of any. We can't have laws that make it ok to steal or create exemptions based on race.

The truth is that this is a social problem.
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Old 25th June 2018, 11:05 PM   #1594
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I could speculate that the people in the NT legal system are racially biased to the extent that they are more lenient to offenders who are not indigenous but otherwise I can't think of any. We can't have laws that make it ok to steal or create exemptions based on race.

The truth is that this is a social problem.
Do you think that indigenous people are just more likely to be criminals than white people? Do you not think it remarkable that there are no non-indigenous children in custody in the NT?

It doesn't matter if it's an institutional or a social problem. It's still a problem.
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Old 25th June 2018, 11:15 PM   #1595
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Do you think that indigenous people are just more likely to be criminals than white people? Do you not think it remarkable that there are no non-indigenous children in custody in the NT?

It doesn't matter if it's an institutional or a social problem. It's still a problem.
Statistically, indigenous people are more likely to commit criminal acts. They come from disadvantaged backgrounds and many are taught to harbour resentment towards the people who invaded this country and think that anything goes.

Identifying the type of problem is important if you want to apply the correct solutions. The problem with the "jail doesn't work" mob is that they never advance alternatives that work. They believe their work is done if they prevent a criminal from being jailed.
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Old 25th June 2018, 11:21 PM   #1596
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Do you think that indigenous people are just more likely to be criminals than white people?.
There is no doubt about this. They commit more crimes than non-indigenous people by any measure.
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Old 26th June 2018, 02:07 AM   #1597
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
There is no doubt about this. They commit more crimes than non-indigenous people by any measure.
1. What causes them to commit more crimes than non-indigenous people?
2. Are there any factors involved?
3. Evidence?
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Old 26th June 2018, 02:16 AM   #1598
lionking
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
1. What causes them to commit more crimes than non-indigenous people?
2. Are there any factors involved?
3. Evidence?
Many and variable. Some indigenous commit crime out of necessity and because they are disadvantaged. Others are simply criminals by trade. I am totally skeptical that racism is exacerbating indigenous criminality and require pretty serious evidence that this is so.

To you point 3, are you seriously suggesting that indigenous don't have higher criminality rates?
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Old 26th June 2018, 03:09 AM   #1599
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I think we can all agree that indigenous Australians are not inherently more criminal than anyone else, but that peoples of decimated cultures are much more likely to find themselves in situations that breed crime.
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Old 26th June 2018, 03:22 AM   #1600
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Originally Posted by Sceptic-PK View Post
I think we can all agree that indigenous Australians are not inherently more criminal than anyone else, but that peoples of decimated cultures are much more likely to find themselves in situations that breed crime.
Well you can count me out of the “we”.

Firstly Australians declaring themselves indigenous is rising in recent decades so decimated is not correct.

Poverty is directly related to criminality. Indigenous people are, on average, more impoverished than non-indigenous. Higher levels of alcohol and drug abuse are factors. I don’t believe racism is as big a factor.
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