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#41 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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Well, I guess my question would be what exactly are those projections used for that other sources of data (e.g. short form census, current trends in service usage, etc.) are inadequate. (I know its a bit unfair of you to put you on the spot, since you're kind of stuck in the middle here.)
Like I said, I actually approve of bringing back the long-form census; I'd just like to know that my approval isn't misplaced. |
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#42 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,519
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Well, I, for one, am disappointed to see the overrrepresentation in the new cabinet. There were 184 Liberals members elected; of that total, 27% are women. Yet 48% of the new cabinet are women. Thus, of the proportion of the population actually elected, women are greatly overrepresented in the cabinet.
When can I expect this gender imbalance in the new cabinet be fixed in order to properly represent the gender distribution of those who were actually elected by their constituents? It's 2015! (Yes, I'm being sarcastic. But that's because I am getting increasingly tired of identity politics infesting everything. How about we let merit decide and get the most qualified persons into the important positions instead of checking off arbitrary boxes that have to be filled first.) |
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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#43 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 26,831
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#44 | |||
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,647
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Mr Trudeau's nicer Canada is having a positive effect already!
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"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
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#45 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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Canadians like people who are nice, of course, we get it now. These people are political geniuses.
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#46 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,519
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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#47 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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Well, if it makes you feel better, 5 of the women were actually "Ministers of State", a lower ranking that actually pays them less than full ministers.
How representative of Canada! Same job, but less pay for women! (Although that is only a temporary situation... apparently there are plans to reclassify the Ministers of State as full Ministers.) http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/just...ters-1.3307122 |
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#48 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,086
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#49 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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#50 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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Oops....
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...n-ms-treatment When Justin Trudeau created a new science portfolio in cabinet, and appointed a former academic as the minister, observers hailed the move as a sign of renewed respect for empirical study....some critics are questioning the prime minister’s choice for the post, an MP whose history with scientists is turbulent....Kirsty Duncan contributed to the UN climate-change panel that won a Nobel peace prize. More controversially, she has also vigorously promoted an unproven medical treatment, clashed publicly with some of the world’s top virus experts, and repeatedly warned of a “darker side” to science replete with power politics and resistance to change. Not that I think Conservatives have much to brag about (what with the appointment of a chiropractor to a science posting). And I do think that ultimately the scientific community will be better of under the Liberal administration than Conservative. But wow... that did not take long to come up, did it. |
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#51 |
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 5,495
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The treatment she championed was "liberation therapy" for multiple sclerosis, and she was supportive of it back in 2011. Studies have since come out showing it's ineffective and has no basis in biology. It would be interesting to know if she's been swayed by the evidence and changed her mind (the scientific approach) or continues to promote it (the woo approach.)
If the latter, she has no business representing science in the federal cabinet. |
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The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum. |
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#52 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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![]() A lot of people thought the vein hypothesis was worth fighting for studying. Back in 2011, I would have said the same thing. Saying something should be studied isn't the same thing as promoting a quack theory, this is complete ********, obviously, the National Post prints crap. Let's see her comments in 2015... good luck digging up more crap to bitch about. |
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#53 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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Well, according to the article:
But notes for that 2011 speech remain on Duncan’s MP web site, and a video she recorded as recently as October, 2014, voices support for the theory. ... a major 2013 study out of the University of British Columbia, which found the vein narrowing was equally present in MS patients and healthy controls – the theory’s “death knell,” according to the journal Lancet. So, it looks like she continued to hold on to her questionable stance on the therapy for at least a year after significant evidence came out against it. And, she has a letter posted on her official page calling studies into the use of "liberation therapy". The letter was dated from 2010 (before the Lancet article); however, her site is still hosting it. You'd think you'd go through some sort of effort to erase that sort of material if it referred to things you no longer believe in. (Admittedly, that one could just be due to an inattentive webmaster.) Of course, it doesn't mean that she will automatically be a bad minister (or any worse than ones that came before.) |
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#54 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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No, but if significant evidence has already come out against that theory, then even calls to continue studying it are.. questionable.
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Not sure about her comments about it in 2015, but as recently as 2014 (long after evidence against the theory came out) she was still talking about it. |
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#55 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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Oh so all of the trials and research still being done on it, one that will be published in 2017, they should all be scrapped because of something The Lancet said? The research shouldn't be supported?
She's spoken of this as recently as June 2015
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#56 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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Ok, first of all, I never actually said existing trials should be scrapped. But, if the bulk of the evidence have shown "liberation therapy" to be ineffective, it would probably be a good idea to not continue pushing for additional research, even if it makes some sense to finish off work that's already been done.
Secondly, its not just "something the lancet said"... it was a research article published in the lancet based on studies done by the University of B.C. Thirdly, that was not the only evidence suggesting that "liberation therapy" was not valid... From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...ticle13775154/ ...the McMaster study found no link between impaired blood flow or blockage in the veins. ... Earlier this year (in 2013), researchers at the University of Buffalo announced new findings that liberation treatment does not help patients improve, and in some cases worsens their condition. That study followed another out of the University of Texas, funded in part by the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada, in which researchers found no evidence that CCSVI was more prevalent in people with MS than those without the disease. So, multiple studies, all going against "liberation therapy". Yeah, you can wait for the next study in 2017, but do you really think its going to be any different than the 4 that have been mentioned?
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If her job is to represent the views of her constituents, she might be doing so. (After all, even those who have incorrect views sometimes deserve to have their voices heard.) If her job is to plot a course of action based on the best evidence (even if it goes against the wishes of her constituents) then no, she isn't doing her job. Hopefully she will do better once she settles into her position.
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#57 |
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 5,495
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So far, not so good. If she's changed her mind in the last year, she certainly isn't trumpeting it on her web site.
It might be safe to assume Justin Trudeau doesn't really know how science works. If he did, I think he would have seen a need to question Kirsty Duncan about her support for this therapy before giving her a science post. |
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The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum. |
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#58 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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Well, I can't necessarily condemn Trudeau... After all, I'm pretty familiar with science, and I had never heard of Liberation therapy before. (Its just not my field of expertise), so it would be understandable if he didn't know there was an issue there.
And of course with any cabinet, you have to pick people who are most qualified out of a pretty small pool of people that is probably going to be laden more with lawyers and business people than scientists. So picking someone with a few flaws would be better than picking someone with many flaws. Overall I think that "science" will be better off than it had been, even if the minister is incorrect on this. |
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#59 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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But you're criticizing her for pushing for the highest level of trials, so you may as well be.
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#60 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,556
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#61 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,519
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Not a good start, at least in terms of optics.
Trudeau children's nannies being paid for by taxpayers. This after, as the article states:
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Practice what you preach, Mr. Trudeau. |
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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#62 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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There is nothing wrong with that. Why are people demanding that these children deserve more attention than the highest office in the land? What a bunch of douche bags
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#63 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,647
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"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
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#64 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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I think the difference is that there are practical reasons for using a government jet... Often the PM would be using it when on official business, plus it may have been necessary for security purposes.
The question is whether there is a similar need for government-sponsored child care for his (Trudeau's) family. He himself would have government work that would prevent him from watching the children, but does his wife similarly have expectations for government activities? (i.e. are there expectations of her, jobs that she has to do, that are typically demanded of the wife of the PM.) Still, its a pretty minor thing. But, its not the only issue with the Liberals. They've already managed to break one election promise, and the house of commons hasn't even been in session yet! From: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/libe...gees-1.3333623 The Liberal government says Canada will complete the resettlement of 25,000 Syrian refugees two months later than anticipated. Now, I'm sure many of the liberal supporters will claim "that's not a broken promise", but it is... The Liberal platform (during the election) was that 25,000 would be brought in by the end of the year. Not by February. By the end of December. Now, the problem is not that the Liberal's plan was delayed... The problem is that they made the promise in the first place. Many people (even the NDP, and many of he aid groups) claimed that the Liberal's plans were unrealistic. So, we're left with 2 possibilities: - The Liberals were lying... they knew during the election that their plans were not realistic, but stuck with it in a cynical attempt to gain votes over such a hot-button issue or: - The Liberals were incompetent. They may have honestly thought that they could take in 25,000 refugees, even though there was substantial evidence that their plan was unworkable. Edited to add: There may already be a second broken promise... After repeatedly criticizing the Conservatives over their habit of spending public money on advertising for conservative-backed programs, the Liberals have done the same over the refugee program... https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...XdmeTdhsB_bkhQ |
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#65 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,519
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Mr. Trudeau can easily say that he will not accept the government paying for the nannies to his children and he'll pay for the cost himself. Issue solved. It shows that he practices what he preaches. It would win points with the public. And it would take an arrow out of the opposition's quiver. It really is that simple. |
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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#66 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,647
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"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
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#67 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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No, it actually may BE that simple.
As I pointed out before... the 2 situations may not be comparable. Harper's presence in Ottawa may have been part of his role as former PM. In addition, there may have been security concerns (past PMs are typically offered RCMP security, as they would be considered potential targets). Flying the PM on a government jet was probably more secure than having him fly commercial. http://ottawacitizen.com/news/nation...tective-detail What hasn't been determined yet is whether the wife of PM has duties that are related to her husband's position that would make the use of government-paid nannies in Canada's interest. Although she has no official position, there may be situations (like visiting schools, meeting foreign leaders, etc.) where paying for a nanny might be justifiable. But if the majority of time is spent on personal projects, then there is no compelling reason why the government should be paying for child care. |
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#68 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,086
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No, they aren't http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pp/index-eng.htm
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#69 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,519
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I find it interesting how you keep focusing on Harper, a former Prime Minister, rather that Trudeau, who is the current Prime Minister. The fact remains: Trudeau is acting in a manner which is contradictory to his campaign rhetoric. He can easily deal with it. Yet you continue to want to obfuscate this simple point. |
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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#70 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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Not really sure where your particular reference contradicts my claim. (And, the reference I provided showing some previous PMs receiving security details.) There's certainly nothing there to say they AREN'T offered security (and your reference does state: Protection is extended to Canadian and foreign dignitaries, persons designated by the Minister of Public Safety... So, I assume that past prime ministers would fall under the "designated" category.
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#71 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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You don't understand.... Trudeau is a Liberal. A member of the natural ruling party and one of god's chosen people. The rule is that regardless of how many campaign promises they break, or how contradictory they are, or how unworkable their promises are, or what scandals they have, they are automatically better than the conservatives by way of being Liberals.
That's the way it should always be. Don't you dare talk about integrity! Its only the conservatives that deserve to be criticized over that. Chretien promises to scrap the GST and doesn't? Give him another Majority. Ontario Liberals have huge scandals costing billions (and involve destroying evidence in a police investigation)? Lets vote them in again! Justin promises to bring in 25000 refugees by year's end, even though other parties and even aid groups say its not feasible? No problem! Gotta vote for the hair! |
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#72 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,519
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I would hope that on a skeptics forum we'd at least be able to (mostly) set ideology aside. But, politics, I guess not. Oh well... In all honesty, that was probably a smart broken promise, given the degree to which revenue from the GST helped end the deficit. To be fair, the Conservative under Hudak were a disaster during the campaign. They ran as Republicans Lite. Not interested in that. And Hudak's rhetoric was often cringe-worthy. |
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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#73 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,647
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"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
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#74 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,647
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"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
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#75 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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Yeah would be nice.
Of course, people on the left side of the political spectrum can be just as set in their opinions. Remember, I was the one who acknowledged that there may be some justification in having government-supplied childcare for the PM's family. It was Gord_in_Toronto who, when presented with a possible case of Liberal hypocrisy, automatically jumped to attack the conservatives.
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But, in both cases, the Liberals either knew their promises were a lie, or should have. People complain about the state of politics in Canada, they complain about nastiness. But then they accept the rather obvious lies. As for the GST helping end the deficit.... yes, the GST was a major contributing factor. And it was brought in by the Conservatives (who lost an election in part because of the GST.) But when you bring up the deficit, Liberal supporters tend to respond like a brain-damaged parrot... "Chretien eliminated the deficit". You point out that Conservative tax breaks were critical, all they seem to do is respond with "Chretien Eliminated the deficit".
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#76 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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First of all, keep in mind that the 'principles' that you are assigning to Harper are also supposedly the 'principles' of the Liberals (since they regularly criticized much of the spending of the Conservatives.) And if that's he case, then someone with 6 employees is doing better than someone with 7 employees in reaching those principles.
Secondly, nobody is saying any PM should have 0 staff to maintain the residence. But that doesn't mean that a PM should have more staff than necessary. And minor point: Trudeau is not living at 24 Sussex drive. I'm not sure how much that affects the need for employees, but I suspect that where he's living is probably smaller and he can probably reduce staff even more. |
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#77 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,086
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#78 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,519
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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#79 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,270
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Looks like Trudeau may have backtracked on this...
From: http://syruptrap.ca/2015/12/amid-bac...sed-by-wolves/ Facing backlash over using public funds to hire nannies, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced that his three young children will instead be abandoned in the wild to be raised by wolves. |
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#80 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,434
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