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Tags abortion issues , abortion laws , Ireland elections , Ireland issues , Ireland politics

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Old 29th May 2018, 06:49 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Did this change a single law? Can people now treat women with cervical cancer if they get pregnant or do the new laws have to be written?
New laws have to be written, as it stands the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act is still in force.
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Old 29th May 2018, 06:52 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Yes that post was a doozy wasn't it?

The infidelity of gay guys, (800+ lovers per year? That's more than 2 a day ), then fall of the Roman empire, (Roman men bonking boys). What is to become of Ireland in the light of all this history?
How many gay men need abortions anyway?
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Old 29th May 2018, 06:57 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
My cousin got pregnant in the 1990s. She was married and was planning a family. However, the foetus had a medical condition (can't remember the details, it's not important) which meant that if it survived to full term, it would be born and would die within hours. There was 0% chance of the baby being viable.

Legally there was nothing she could do to terminate the pregnancy. She could have regular scans to see if the foetus was still alive and could have had it removed if it was dead, but the foetus survived full term. For some reason (don't know her personal situation, doesn't really matter) she chose not to travel abroad to have an abortion but instead carried the foetus to term, and it died almost immediately, as expected.
Hell in the US doctors can lie to their patients in exactly that situation so that they fool them into thinking their baby has a chance. Hopefully all those births happen on april 1st, because that is the best practical joke ever!
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Old 29th May 2018, 07:03 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As I understand it, the Netherlands (or was it Belgium?) also has euthanasia centres where people can go to 'die with dignity'.

The statistics for the UK says there were 182K abortions last year (nearly a quarter of a million!) of which two were of women who had had eight previous abortions. These can't all be 'rape victims' or 'women forced to carry babies with severe congenital conditions'.


There is a silent holocaust going on here.
Fine we will kill those 2 women for you.
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Old 29th May 2018, 07:07 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
New laws have to be written, as it stands the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act is still in force.
Good at least some women will still die from the existing laws that will make everything better.
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Old 29th May 2018, 07:08 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh well, as long as all the foetuses being disposed of are of the lower unwashed masses, who would be a burden on the welfare state, anyway, we needn't give it any further thought. Unless, of course, there'll be a shortage of labour to take care of the future ageing population or governments need some cannon fodder should we go to war again.
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Old 29th May 2018, 07:09 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am not a doctor, I cannot tell. My response was to Lothian who claimed foetuses were 'parasites'.
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Old 29th May 2018, 07:24 AM   #288
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FYI the Provisional Referendum Certificate has been issued by Barry Ryan (the Referendum Returning Officer) stating that:
A majority of the votes recorded at the referendum was recorded in favour of the proposal
He now awaits information from Master of the High Court either that no referendum petition has been presented or that every such petition has been judged void.
No doubt someone will claim that the referendum decision is "against the will of God" (again).

It has also been agreed that the Dáil's summer recess will be reduced to allow for abortion legislation to be passed in a timely manner.
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Old 29th May 2018, 08:18 AM   #289
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Old 29th May 2018, 09:40 AM   #290
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Does Iowa have a referendum process?
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Old 29th May 2018, 10:13 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As I understand it, the Netherlands (or was it Belgium?) also has euthanasia centres where people can go to 'die with dignity'.

The statistics for the UK says there were 182K abortions last year (nearly a quarter of a million!) of which two were of women who had had eight previous abortions. These can't all be 'rape victims' or 'women forced to carry babies with severe congenital conditions'.


There is a silent holocaust going on here.
Which of those women do you think would be the better parent?
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Old 29th May 2018, 11:18 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
If people are brought up to behave properly, then they shouldn't find themselves in that mess in the first place.
Who determines "properly"? Your holey babble? The one that promotes rape and incest as morally acceptable? That risible tome?

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So the doctors who have made the Hippocratic Oath to do their all to save people's lives, are now being forced to do something horrible, that has little to do with a medical reason.
And now you are lying.
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Old 29th May 2018, 12:57 PM   #293
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In a move so redolent of schadenfreude that everyone is highly impressed by his ability to maintain a straight face, taoiseach Varadkar has said that he sees no barrier to women from Norn Iron coming South for terminations.
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Old 29th May 2018, 01:16 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As I understand it, the Netherlands (or was it Belgium?) also has euthanasia centres where people can go to 'die with dignity'.

The statistics for the UK says there were 182K abortions last year (nearly a quarter of a million!) of which two were of women who had had eight previous abortions. These can't all be 'rape victims' or 'women forced to carry babies with severe congenital conditions'.


There is a silent holocaust going on here.
Yes it does. So when my father in law was going trough terminal cancer, he had the choice to die with his faculties intact and before major pain was occuring.
In your 'christian ethics' he would have died two to three months later as a vegetable in a hospital after going trough intense amount of dehumanizing pain.

Yes, being there was terrible, but still the best way to go.

In the same way, I find your 'holocaust' far better than 182K childred brought up in a family that clearly did not want them, nor was prepared for them.
As others have mentioned, if you have someone who is willing to have that many abortions, what type of parent do you think they would have been?

Because I never see the anti-choicers donate all their excess money to child welfare, nor adopt all those children they claim should be born. If you find it so horrible, why not go to abortion clinics and offer to adopt?
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Old 29th May 2018, 02:31 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
In a move so redolent of schadenfreude that everyone is highly impressed by his ability to maintain a straight face, taoiseach Varadkar has said that he sees no barrier to women from Norn Iron coming South for terminations.
Brexit should see to that!
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Old 29th May 2018, 02:35 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As I understand it, the Netherlands (or was it Belgium?) also has euthanasia centres where people can go to 'die with dignity'.

The statistics for the UK says there were 182K abortions last year (nearly a quarter of a million!) of which two were of women who had had eight previous abortions. These can't all be 'rape victims' or 'women forced to carry babies with severe congenital conditions'.


There is a silent holocaust going on here.

Less than a fifth of a million. Do you find maths challenging also?
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Old 29th May 2018, 06:30 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
I am quite certain L. no more despises children than I do - and the people who have known me for a short or long period are quite sure that I love children and they know that children respond well to that and to me. Yes we support abortion but we do not hate children - and the children I meet know that, their parents know that and I have received a lot of first smiles (outside of family) from children. They are also very safe around me.
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Old 29th May 2018, 06:49 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Less than a fifth of a million. Do you find maths challenging also?
As an accountant I am used to simplifying figures so that the layperson can immediately grasp the concept I am trying to convey to them.

There is not much difference between 0.20 and 0.25. People understand 'a quarter of a million' readily but could struggle to envisage 'a fifth of a million'.
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Old 29th May 2018, 09:37 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Anti-Abortions laws don't prevent abortions.
They prevent safe ones.
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Old 29th May 2018, 10:36 PM   #300
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A couple of points:
If abortion is used as an easy means of contraception, then so be it. better that than the woman concerned having the baby with the attendant responsibilities, complications, expenses, etc etc.
And abortion should be allowed and legal, full stop; not after the woman having to find and face all sorts of medical reasons and laws for or against.
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Old 29th May 2018, 10:45 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Brexit should see to that!
Maybe the DUP will support a wall?
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Old 29th May 2018, 10:46 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As an accountant I am used to simplifying figures so that the layperson can immediately grasp the concept I am trying to convey to them.

There is not much difference between 0.20 and 0.25. People understand 'a quarter of a million' readily but could struggle to envisage 'a fifth of a million'.
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Old 29th May 2018, 10:54 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by SusanB-M1 View Post
A couple of points:
If abortion is used as an easy means of contraception, then so be it. better that than the woman concerned having the baby with the attendant responsibilities, complications, expenses, etc etc.
And abortion should be allowed and legal, full stop; not after the woman having to find and face all sorts of medical reasons and laws for or against.
QFT.
Legal, safe, available de facto instead of only technically de jure, and no one's ************* business except the woman choosing it.
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Old 29th May 2018, 11:17 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As an accountant I am used to simplifying figures so that the layperson can immediately grasp the concept I am trying to convey to them.

There is not much difference between 0.20 and 0.25. People understand 'a quarter of a million' readily but could struggle to envisage 'a fifth of a million'.
I'm glad my accountants aren't like you. I think Inland Revenue or Customs and Excise would be pretty unimpressed if they rounded up £187k of costs to a cool quarter mil when it came round to how much tax and VAT we had paid.
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:23 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yes it does. So when my father in law was going trough terminal cancer, he had the choice to die with his faculties intact and before major pain was occuring.
In your 'christian ethics' he would have died two to three months later as a vegetable in a hospital after going trough intense amount of dehumanizing pain.
Of course is there anything more christian than the promotion of suffering? It fits perfectly with Saint Mother Teresa after all. At least as long as she wasn't the one doing the suffering.
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:25 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As an accountant I am used to simplifying figures so that the layperson can immediately grasp the concept I am trying to convey to them.

There is not much difference between 0.20 and 0.25. People understand 'a quarter of a million' readily but could struggle to envisage 'a fifth of a million'.
Of course that is overstating the real number by 50% but hey lying for jesus is the number 1 way to fight abortion. Bearing false witness is not a big deal to christians.
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:48 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm glad my accountants aren't like you. I think Inland Revenue or Customs and Excise would be pretty unimpressed if they rounded up £187k of costs to a cool quarter mil when it came round to how much tax and VAT we had paid.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:13 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm glad my accountants aren't like you. I think Inland Revenue or Customs and Excise would be pretty unimpressed if they rounded up £187k of costs to a cool quarter mil when it came round to how much tax and VAT we had paid.
Even HMRC want rounded figures. They don't want the pence.

As the tax inspectors are usually fellow accountants of course they would get the exact figure from me.

On a chat forum, it's enough to talk in common phrases. Such as, 'a couple of hundred grand, 'half a million, 'quarter of a million' - people immediately grasp it.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:26 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Of course that is overstating the real number by 50% but hey lying for jesus is the number 1 way to fight abortion. Bearing false witness is not a big deal to christians.
The difference between 20% and 25% is 5%.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:26 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Even HMRC want rounded figures. They don't want the pence.

As the tax inspectors are usually fellow accountants of course they would get the exact figure from me.

On a chat forum, it's enough to talk in common phrases. Such as, 'a couple of hundred grand, 'half a million, 'quarter of a million' - people immediately grasp it.
Do you think people here don't understand the concept of 182K?
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:30 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The difference between 20% and 25% is 5%.
As we are trying to be correct.
You were overstating by 37,4%. Which in your example you can round to be overstating by 50%.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:48 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Even HMRC want rounded figures. They don't want the pence.

As the tax inspectors are usually fellow accountants of course they would get the exact figure from me.

On a chat forum, it's enough to talk in common phrases. Such as, 'a couple of hundred grand, 'half a million, 'quarter of a million' - people immediately grasp it.
Rounding the pence on a large sum is hardly the same as overstating by close to 40%.
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Old 30th May 2018, 05:27 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The difference between 20% and 25% is 5%.
The difference between 250K is 137% of 182K. So I rounded 137 to 150 because everyone loves round numbers.
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Old 30th May 2018, 07:51 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The difference between 20% and 25% is 5%.
Tut tut tut! Tsk, tsk, tsk!

Your attempt to exaggerate by rounding up 182,000 to 250,000 was embarrassingly transparent enough. Your "explanation" that somehow people could comprehend a quarter of a million but not a fifth of a million made it worse; presenting an insulting view of our intelligence if you expected us to believe you, or of peoples' intelligence as a whole if you yourself believed it.

It would have been best to leave it there. But here you are making a claim that represents a yet more deliberate, and even more feeble, departure from mathematical reality. The difference between 200,000 and 250,000 is 50,000, or 25% of the first number. The 250,000 you manufactured is 37.4% higher than the actual number, 182,000. I'll even round that down for you for your ease of comprehension: you made up a number more than a third larger than the actual number.

25% is 20% plus 5%. But a quarter of a million is 25% higher than is a fifth of a million.

Why bother to exaggerate at all, let alone continue to call attention to it by trying to defend it? Do you really think it strengthens your argument by 37.4%?

Last edited by Giordano; 30th May 2018 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 30th May 2018, 07:58 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Rounding the pence on a large sum is hardly the same as overstating by close to 40%.
Using the simplified math Vixen created for an arithmetically challenged public, we need to round that up to 50%! Or maybe 60%- I am not sure, having learned a different math in my school.
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Old 30th May 2018, 08:11 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Using the simplified math Vixen created for an arithmetically challenged public, we need to round that up to 50%! Or maybe 60%- I am not sure, having learned a different math in my school.
I think our problem is that we only did maths at school (or in my case also at university where I was thoroughly befuddled by most of the maths associated with gaining a physics degree). Accountancy maths for the arithmetically challenged public is entirely different as you point out and as the experience of Enron shareholders testifies.....
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Old 30th May 2018, 02:08 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
As we are trying to be correct.
You were overstating by 37,4%. Which in your example you can round to be overstating by 50%.
Well played, Sir. Well played indeed.
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:42 PM   #318
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Now we have the maths problem sorted , I would like to ask Vixen if he/she has an opinion regarding the moment the separate life in the woman body, becomes a person and should be given equal right to life as the mother?

Just as a prompt here 3 days after conception the life is called a blastocyst and is composed of about 150 cells typically. To get this into perspective the brain of a fly has about 1000 cells. To help you with the maths the blastocyst is 15% the size of a fly's brain.
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Old 30th May 2018, 05:21 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Tut tut tut! Tsk, tsk, tsk!

Your attempt to exaggerate by rounding up 182,000 to 250,000 was embarrassingly transparent enough. Your "explanation" that somehow people could comprehend a quarter of a million but not a fifth of a million made it worse; presenting an insulting view of our intelligence if you expected us to believe you, or of peoples' intelligence as a whole if you yourself believed it.

It would have been best to leave it there. But here you are making a claim that represents a yet more deliberate, and even more feeble, departure from mathematical reality. The difference between 200,000 and 250,000 is 50,000, or 25% of the first number. The 250,000 you manufactured is 37.4% higher than the actual number, 182,000. I'll even round that down for you for your ease of comprehension: you made up a number more than a third larger than the actual number.

25% is 20% plus 5%. But a quarter of a million is 25% higher than is a fifth of a million.

Why bother to exaggerate at all, let alone continue to call attention to it by trying to defend it? Do you really think it strengthens your argument by 37.4%?


Hello? It was me who gave you the figure of 182K in the first place.

I then described the abortion rate in the UK as nearly a quarter of a million.

Some clever dick said it was 'nearer one-fifth of a million'. I explained that that is not a ready figure of speech for most people. He said there was a big difference between one fifth and one quarter and I merely pointed out there was not.

If I take £20 and divide it amongst five, you each get £4. Amongst four £5.

Does that put it into perspective for you?

Did you fail to see the figure I quoted, of 182K?

So, what is the problem?
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Old 30th May 2018, 05:24 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Now we have the maths problem sorted , I would like to ask Vixen if he/she has an opinion regarding the moment the separate life in the woman body, becomes a person and should be given equal right to life as the mother?

Just as a prompt here 3 days after conception the life is called a blastocyst and is composed of about 150 cells typically. To get this into perspective the brain of a fly has about 1000 cells. To help you with the maths the blastocyst is 15% the size of a fly's brain.

It doesn't really matter what it's called does it?
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