|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
9th September 2019, 06:46 AM | #41 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
9th September 2019, 06:46 AM | #42 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
9th September 2019, 06:47 AM | #43 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
Why are you making this into 'Contrarian Douchebag'?
There is a term for trying to re-write a story, and then shutting down that story. A writer uses words, his job is to utilize his experiences and storytelling ability to create a creative story. His words are his tools, they told him he couldn't use his words creatively to tell a story. An artist uses colors to create artwork, if you tell them they can't use a certain color, you are affecting their creativity. It's more like telling your chef you want a steak, but that he can't kill an animal to get it. |
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
9th September 2019, 06:49 AM | #44 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
|
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
9th September 2019, 06:49 AM | #45 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
9th September 2019, 06:51 AM | #46 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
Oh nonsense. When people are hired to do jobs they sometimes have to do those jobs within restrictions put on them by the people paying them to do a job. That doesn't magically change because the person hired to do the job isn't a mere mortal but... *pause for dramatic effect* //French Accent// ARTIST! //French Accent//
The "Sandwich Artist" at Subway can't put cucumbers on my meatball sub after I ask him not to because his artist's soul says they have to be there and just who the hell am I to tell an "artist" what ingredients they can and can't use on a sandwich... I can tell him because it's my sandwich and I'm paying for it. Mosley was hired to write scripts for a TV show. If the producers of the show say "Every other word has to be pumpernickel and you are never allowed to use the letter W" then so be it, he either does it their way or he doesn't take the job. He doesn't do the job outside their specification and throw down the "But I'm a creative artiste and I shall do it however I want so now I'm taking my ball and going home" card when called on it. |
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
9th September 2019, 06:52 AM | #47 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
9th September 2019, 06:52 AM | #48 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
9th September 2019, 07:38 AM | #49 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
I've worked all my life in a creative environment, no idea where you get your idea from about what creative environments are like. (Hint there isn't "a" creative environment. )
Plus of course the story you are telling has nothing in common with the story reported in this thread..... |
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
9th September 2019, 07:39 AM | #50 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
|
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
9th September 2019, 07:41 AM | #51 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
9th September 2019, 07:44 AM | #52 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
He was writing, to put it simply, to a brief. When I did comic panels and covers guess what? I had to keep to the brief, it's all part of the job of being a commercial artist of any kind.
Plus in this case you are "trying to re write a story" and I've heard that's not a good thing from a member here. |
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
9th September 2019, 07:45 AM | #53 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
|
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
9th September 2019, 07:46 AM | #54 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
|
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
9th September 2019, 07:49 AM | #55 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
Again this is trying to re-write a simple "You ain't doing the job you were hired to do" narrative into some stifling the creativity of an artiste nonsense.
Artists aren't some special subcategory of humanity that gets to pick and choose and add on to what their job is at their own internal whims because of "creativity." |
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
9th September 2019, 07:49 AM | #56 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
"I am above the petty restrictions lesser people have to follow!" I don't buy that from Polanski either.
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
9th September 2019, 07:50 AM | #57 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
9th September 2019, 07:53 AM | #58 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
9th September 2019, 08:30 AM | #59 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,405
|
He/they could put slurs into the mouths of characters. This is not about that.
It was about using slurs in conversation that company policy prohibits. The company policy cannot be ignored for people of one race and not another. This would be the definition of a racist company policy. This company did it correctly, the slur was not allowed by anyone. Imagine if the company ignored this, then another non-black writer started using the term. No action makes for a hostile work environment which would open the company to legal liability, while action would also open the company to legal liability. |
__________________
- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games'] |
|
9th September 2019, 08:54 AM | #60 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 274
|
According to Mosely, that didn't happen, though. From the article in OP: "Mosley went on to explain that the individual in HR said that while he was free to use that word in a script, he "could not say it." Mosley then clarified, "I hadn’t called anyone it. I just told a story about a cop who explained to me, on the streets of Los Angeles, that he stopped all n---ers in paddy neighborhoods and all paddies in n---er neighborhoods, because they were usually up to no good. I was telling a true story as I remembered it."
I took that to mean, because his usage of the word was during an anecdote and not related to his job, HR was telling him that casual use of the word in the writer's room wasn't allowed. Granted, it's a little ambiguous as to the exact rule and context, but I would imagine that, being allowed to use the word in script, if his usage of it was job-related, it probably would have been less of a deal. No one told him he couldn't use the word in a creative capacity. |
9th September 2019, 09:33 AM | #61 |
The Clarity Is Devastating
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 20,891
|
Quote:
Hey SF writer... you're good at metaphors, right? You know the line in every mad scientist story, where the enraged monster is finally closing in on the mad scientist and the mad scientist is yelling "No! Stop! Obey me! I am your creator!"...? That's what you're saying between the lines here. "This system of corporate and public monitoring of every word regardless of context or intent was created to protect minorities from the racists who use racial slurs! We were never supposed to actually have to put up with it ourselves!" |
__________________
"*Except Myriad. Even Cthulhu would give him a pat on the head and an ice cream and send him to the movies while he ended the rest of the world." - Foster Zygote |
|
9th September 2019, 10:44 AM | #62 |
Master Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,342
|
|
__________________
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." Steve Earle "I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt |
|
9th September 2019, 10:53 AM | #63 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
9th September 2019, 11:50 AM | #64 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,400
|
Thing about this particular use of the word is that, according to Mosley:
Originally Posted by Mosley
|
9th September 2019, 12:04 PM | #65 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
|
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
9th September 2019, 12:05 PM | #66 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 25,863
|
|
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
|
9th September 2019, 12:08 PM | #67 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 25,863
|
Well, there is no police force in the country that would officially condone an officer using such language, so I think we can assume Mr. Mosley's account is inaccurate. I mean surely their partner would turn them in just as quickly as Mosley's team members turned him in.
|
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
|
9th September 2019, 12:36 PM | #68 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 14,555
|
It is surprising to me that he would work on something Sci Fi. As I recall, he usually wrote mysteries?
|
__________________
Julia |
|
9th September 2019, 12:37 PM | #69 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
|
Not today, but given the use of the term "paddy" in Mosley's account, one can make an educated guess that the the incident may have been from the 1960's - 1970's.
In the department my father served with they broke down the municipality into different districts for the purpose of assigning officers. One of the districts was the North Central District, or NCD for short. I'm sure folks would understand where the racial slur was inserted into that name in the 1950's - 1960's by certain white pointy-hat inclined officers. My father found himself assigned there because he was considered to be a "lover" of that demographic. |
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
9th September 2019, 12:47 PM | #70 |
Species traitor
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,030
|
Paddies, though? When is the last time anyone used that slur in the US without attempting to sound like they were from 1890? Irish people have long since been absorbed into the vanilla pudding cup that is white America--I doubt a cop would even be able to identify an "Irish" guy in a black neighborhood as a paddy. Even in a city that still has "Irish" neighborhoods.
But sure, maybe the cop in this story was a dues-paying member of the Know Nothing party. If I were in the writer's room I would call HR to complain about having to work with a 150-year-old. |
9th September 2019, 12:47 PM | #71 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,051
|
Addressing this in the writer's room instead of involving HR was my first reaction as well. But after reading Mosley's OpEd it seems that if Bob the Snitch told Mosley (with all due respect) that he was uncomfortable with that word being used in the writer's room, Mosley would have given Bob a lecture and nothing would happen.
|
9th September 2019, 12:48 PM | #72 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
|
|
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
|
9th September 2019, 12:51 PM | #73 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
|
|
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
|
9th September 2019, 12:52 PM | #74 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,051
|
|
9th September 2019, 12:56 PM | #75 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
I'm reminded of a skit on the Daily Show several years back where "Senior Black Correspondent Larry Wilmore" was talking about a possible incident where a number of African Americans students were accused of assaulting a white student on a schoolbus.
He played a clip of Rush Limbaugh. "This is what happens in Obama's America, the white students get beat up while the bus driver cheers them on; 'right on right on right on' (said in a cartoonishly stereotypical black voice)" Wilmore's response was "So not only was the bus full of racist black people it was also from the 70s." |
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
9th September 2019, 12:57 PM | #76 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
|
|
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
|
9th September 2019, 01:01 PM | #77 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
|
I heard the terms "Paddies" and "ofays" used by black guys to describe white guys while serving in the Army - 74 - 80.
It was more for fun than hateful. I was also informed that being Sicilian from New Orleans made me one strike away from being - you know - but it wasn't intended to be hateful, just informative... |
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
9th September 2019, 01:04 PM | #78 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No longer Philadelphia :(
Posts: 5,770
|
|
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
|
9th September 2019, 01:12 PM | #79 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,051
|
|
9th September 2019, 01:15 PM | #80 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
Yes let's all share our "Hey I heard this racial slur used 20-40 years ago stories" as if those actually matter and is if that makes a writer using the N-word in the writing room any different.
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|