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Old 24th January 2019, 11:32 AM   #41
jeffas69
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Sixteen is plenty old enough to take responsibility for trying to blow up a load of civilians. He should get the same punishment as the rest. IMO, if they're proven guilty, they should get death.
No argument from here.
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Old 24th January 2019, 11:42 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Sixteen is plenty old enough to take responsibility for trying to blow up a load of civilians. He should get the same punishment as the rest. IMO, if they're proven guilty, they should get death.
Our society mostly doesn't like execution and would prefer a life sentence. This would be especially true if the person had not actually killed anyone.

Regardless, they will be sent to prison and will quickly join a white supremacist gang there.
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Old 24th January 2019, 11:53 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Weird story. Wonder what was in the initial picture that had fellow students that saw it disturbed enough to contact police.
I think I read that the juvenile screwed up and actually told someone at school what was going to happen. Not sure if that's confirmed.

Anyway, I don't think the charges for any of these guys would be attempted murder instead of planned murder. There was no attempt made.
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Old 24th January 2019, 03:50 PM   #44
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I believe the charge would be "conspiracy to commit murder."
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Old 24th January 2019, 04:25 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
You were doing OK until the last sentence. These people are terrorists (if found guilty, of course). They are no different to ISIS terrorists or any other brand of terrorist and should be treated accordingly. However, the weasel words of your last sentence are intended to mislead. 50% of fatalities from terrorism in the US in recent years have resulted from an Islamic source; that is to say, 1% of the population have been responsible for fully half the deaths. And that's not counting 9/11.
Aside: Using that same logic, AIDS "IS" a gay disease. I think 95% of cases are within the 5% of the population that is gay. I have no dog or pony in either camp, just pointing out a possible issue with logic.
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Old 24th January 2019, 05:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
They're not brown people from south of the border, illegally in the country, carrying drugs, or infected with smallpox, and they weren't attacking white people, so there's nothing to see here folks.

Don't expect any poutrage from the usual suspects... its not even worth a Presidential tweet, but if this was "blacks & injuns" throwing verbals at white catholic schoolboys, hoo boy, the usual suspects would be all over it like a rash, with their pearl-clutching fake outrage!

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Wrings hands over minorities not being sufficiently called out for racism against white teenagers:

Finds potential terrorism plotted by white teenagers against minorities uninteresting:

Are these comments and all the other "how come this gets less attention than some Catholic school kids" serious? Obviously the interesting thing about the latter story is not what anyone involved actually did to anyone else, but how social media and the news media issued (and in some cases continue to issue) false and absurdly biased reports.

If bloggers and Twitter celebrities were to start saying things like, "let's not forget, in all this, the smirking Islamic arrogance of the intended targets," the story would become more interesting. But it seems that hasn't happened. I wonder why not?
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Old 25th January 2019, 02:34 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Are these comments and all the other "how come this gets less attention than some Catholic school kids" serious? Obviously the interesting thing about the latter story is not what anyone involved actually did to anyone else, but how social media and the news media issued (and in some cases continue to issue) false and absurdly biased reports
The Usual Suspects are certainly trying to make it about that.

The reality is that people went off half-cocked having only seen small part of the video. The mistaken left-leading media walked their initial stories back (something that you never ever see gutter-snipes like Faux News ever doing)

The right has milked this for all its worth.
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Old 25th January 2019, 02:39 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
Ermm... Yes? If they'd all gone off exactly as planned he'd have killed more people.
You misunderstand. "Threat so society is not just about the number of people of people a bomber kills; its the threat that his bombs might kill.

Before he was captured, was he a lesser threat to society just because some of his bombs didn't go off?
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Old 25th January 2019, 04:04 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You misunderstand. "Threat so society is not just about the number of people of people a bomber kills; its the threat that his bombs might kill.

Before he was captured, was he a lesser threat to society just because some of his bombs didn't go off?
Yes, if, for instance, 90% of his bombs went off he was less of a threat than if 100% of his bombs went off.
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Old 25th January 2019, 06:19 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Are these comments and all the other "how come this gets less attention than some Catholic school kids" serious? Obviously the interesting thing about the latter story is not what anyone involved actually did to anyone else, but how social media and the news media issued (and in some cases continue to issue) false and absurdly biased reports.

If bloggers and Twitter celebrities were to start saying things like, "let's not forget, in all this, the smirking Islamic arrogance of the intended targets," the story would become more interesting. But it seems that hasn't happened. I wonder why not?
I would still argue that a foiled terrorist plot in which actual lives may have been saved is of more interest.
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Old 25th January 2019, 06:39 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Weird story. Wonder what was in the initial picture that had fellow students that saw it disturbed enough to contact police. Also is Islamburg some kind of well known location for Muslims?

It is thanks to news outlets like Faux News. Past efforts have come from as far away as Tennessee and Arizona. (Link from Jungle_Jim's post.
Quote:
They would be living the quiet lives they had dreamed of if not for right-wing fearmongering, especially by Fox News. Dating back to at least 2007, Fox News has run story after story spreading lies about this community as some type of terrorist training camp. One segment featured a representative from the Clarion Project, an organization dubbed an anti-Muslim hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center and which boasts as an adviser Walid Phares, one of Donald Trumpís advisers on the Middle East during the 2016 campaign, to spread these lies, which have been debunked time and time again.

...

For the last three years, the right-wing ďAmerican Bikers United Against JihadĒ regularly drive up to taunt and harass the community. Itís hard to say if they hate the people of Islamberg more for being Muslim or for being black.

Quote:
The story seems to describe it as a few dozen families.

From same link above, apparently it is now around 200 families.
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Old 25th January 2019, 06:45 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There are actually four of them. One is a 16 year old, so he isn't named or have a mugshot. Because he is a juvenile, our society gives him reduced punishment and other perks. Down the road he could become the next leader of another domestic terrorism cell.

Maybe reduced punishment, when that time comes, but he doesn't seem to be getting too many perks right now.

From the article cited in the OP;
Quote:
The three men are being held in the Monroe County Jail on $50,000 bail or $100,000 bond. The 16-year-old has been arraigned and is being held on $1 million bail
.

This is possibly because;
Quote:
Court documents describe the homemade bombs as a large-sized cylinder wrapped in duct tape, one medium-sized cylinder wrapped in duct tape and one mason jar wrapped in duct tape. Phelan said all three were recovered from the Milford Street home of the 16-year-old suspect.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:45 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Yes, if, for instance, 90% of his bombs went off he was less of a threat than if 100% of his bombs went off.
No, you just don't get it.

I am a sniper in a high place in the city. No-one has yet located me. You, along with everyone else is trapped in an area cordoned off by police, and you are awaiting evacuation.

Scenario 1: I have already shot and killed five people, and wounded two more

Scenario 2: I have already shot and killed four people and wounded three more

Are you honestly going to tell me that you feel less threatened in scenario 2 thanin Scenario 1?
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:23 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I think I read that the juvenile screwed up and actually told someone at school what was going to happen. Not sure if that's confirmed.
The article states that he showed a photo on his phone to some classmates and asked them if they thought this kid looked like the next school shooter. I'm guessing that the kid in the photo had either guns or one of the bombs that were found.
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Old 25th January 2019, 02:19 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
It is thanks to news outlets like Faux News. Past efforts have come from as far away as Tennessee and Arizona. (Link from Jungle_Jim's post.

From same link above, apparently it is now around 200 families.
Thanks for the context. Never heard of it before this story and seems like such a small community that it would really never enter anyone's mind without some kind of continued coverage or outrage story.

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The article states that he showed a photo on his phone to some classmates and asked them if they thought this kid looked like the next school shooter. I'm guessing that the kid in the photo had either guns or one of the bombs that were found.
Thanks, makes a lot more sense. For some reason mind went to thinking he was showing a picture of someone from the community they were targeting as if looking for justification for the act. Why anyone would show a picture of themselves with weapons and reference being a future school shooter is beyond me, but glad he did.
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Old 1st February 2019, 03:08 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No, you just don't get it.

I am a sniper in a high place in the city. No-one has yet located me. You, along with everyone else is trapped in an area cordoned off by police, and you are awaiting evacuation.

Scenario 1: I have already shot and killed five people, and wounded two more

Scenario 2: I have already shot and killed four people and wounded three more

Are you honestly going to tell me that you feel less threatened in scenario 2 thanin Scenario 1?
Yes, though only slightly. I put the probability that the difference between 1 and 2 is down to chance quite high. But if you were to ask me "which sniper, 1 or 2, is a better shot?" I'd think sniper 1 is more likely to be a better shot than sniper 2.

And my level of risk is directly proportional to the gunman's accuracy.
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Old 1st February 2019, 03:49 AM   #57
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When the nightmare of the Trump presidency is finally over - howerver that end comes to be - there needs to be a lot of reckoning and investigations into how right wing terrorists are radicalized. Start treating it for what it is.
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Old 1st February 2019, 06:47 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Yes, though only slightly. I put the probability that the difference between 1 and 2 is down to chance quite high. But if you were to ask me "which sniper, 1 or 2, is a better shot?" I'd think sniper 1 is more likely to be a better shot than sniper 2.

And my level of risk is directly proportional to the gunman's accuracy.
Yeah, anyone claiming to do the math in that scenario is in dire need of a fire extinguisher for their lower garments.
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Old 1st February 2019, 07:10 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh attempted murder what kind of crime is that I ask you! Do they give Nobel Prizes for "attempted chemistry?"
Yeah, let people off scot-free if their aim is bad. Seems fair.
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Old 1st February 2019, 07:15 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Yeah, let people off scot-free if their aim is bad. Seems fair.
I'm not totally convinced Joe was being serious
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:34 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yeah, anyone claiming to do the math in that scenario is in dire need of a fire extinguisher for their lower garments.
I canít tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me...
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Old 4th February 2019, 01:53 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
When the nightmare of the Trump presidency is finally over - howerver that end comes to be - there needs to be a lot of reckoning and investigations into how right wing terrorists are radicalized. Start treating it for what it is.
No there won't, everyone will just go on ignoring the whole problem.
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Old 4th February 2019, 09:19 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
It's breaking news. All the details have yet to come in. You don't find it "interesting" that if the case does pan out as expected, we have yet more home-grown nationalists and bigots who are taking up arms against non-combatants. I'm trying to remember what we call that when inconveniently darker hued individuals cross that line from patriotism to nationalism to... oh, yes, "terrorism".

I mean, it's not a Gillette ad, but I think it might be of interest. But that's just me, I guess.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
They're not brown people from south of the border, illegally in the country, carrying drugs, or infected with smallpox, and they weren't attacking white people, so there's nothing to see here folks.

Don't expect any poutrage from the usual suspects... its not even worth a Presidential tweet, but if this was "blacks & injuns" throwing verbals at white catholic schoolboys, hoo boy, the usual suspects would be all over it like a rash, with their pearl-clutching fake outrage!
So this is kind of a meta-thread, isn't it. It's not a discussion about the thing itself but a discussion about the (lack of) discussion about this?

But I don't see anyone defending these guys.

Remember that the outrage at the "white catholic schoolboys" taunting the Vietnam Vet Native American Elder began with demonizing the boys, not the other way around.
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Old 5th February 2019, 03:05 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror...#Recent_trends



You want to read my post again? I never said you were lying, I said you were using weasel words. By concentrating on the number of attacks as opposed to fatalities, and by ignoring the issue of relative populations, you are playing down the Islamic threat.
This subject has come up before and I checked the list of deadly hate-crimes on the SPLC (?) website. If you look at the individual cases, you find that most deaths caused by white-nationalists are actually not motivated by racism or ideology. It was mostly random violent incidents like domestic violence and bar-fights involving people associated with pro-white hategroups. I mean, have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/beholdthemasterrace/ and see how many people displayed there are able to organise anything more complex than a meth-binge.
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Old 5th February 2019, 07:15 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
So this is kind of a meta-thread, isn't it. It's not a discussion about the thing itself but a discussion about the (lack of) discussion about this?

But I don't see anyone defending these guys.
Of course they are to be written off as lone nuts and pay no attention to how they became radicalized. Nope totally unconnected to everything else.
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