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Tags Kentucky incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 23rd January 2019, 08:51 PM   #721
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It's the victims' fault for not having guns themselves, of course. Unless they are actually vicsims.
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Old 24th January 2019, 07:49 AM   #722
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Why? There has only been 19 so far, and only one with five dead.



https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r.../mass-shooting


"They" have stopped trying.



Norm
2018 was down from 2017. 57,002 compared to 61,917.
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Old 24th January 2019, 04:27 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
2018 was down from 2017. 57,002 compared to 61,917.
As I never tire of saying, down from ludicrously ridiculously high to only ludicrously high.
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Old 24th January 2019, 05:21 PM   #724
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He killed everyone in the bank. Four employees and one customer. All were female. He made them lay face-down on the floor and then shot them in the back of the head with a 9mm handgun. He was wearing a ballistic vest.
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Old 25th January 2019, 01:52 AM   #725
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Was he an illegal immigrant?
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Old 25th January 2019, 07:13 AM   #726
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Was he an illegal immigrant?

Not yet, but give Alex time.
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Old 26th January 2019, 04:44 AM   #727
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
As I never tire of saying, down from ludicrously ridiculously high to only ludicrously high.
Indeed, the UK figure for mass shootings in 2018 was 0, which was the same as 2017. I am not sure of any (outwith terrorist attacks) in Europe either.
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Old 26th January 2019, 03:32 PM   #728
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I'm hoping that the numbers will continue to decline as the effects of lead poisoning, from leaded petrol, continue to decline.

Unfortunately, that seems to mean as the affected people become too infirm to commit violent crimes, or die.

There's a long tail on some of these things...
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Old 26th January 2019, 04:09 PM   #729
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5 dead after shooting spree in Louisiana

Originally Posted by CNN
A manhunt is underway in Louisiana following a string of shootings that left the suspect's parents and 3 others dead, law enforcement officials said.

Authorities are looking for 21-year Dakota Theriot after two Saturday morning shootings in Ascension and Livingston parishes, near Baton Rouge...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/26/us/lo...ngs/index.html
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Old 26th January 2019, 04:22 PM   #730
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
5 dead after shooting spree in Louisiana



https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/26/us/lo...ngs/index.html
Just another day in the USA.
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Old 26th January 2019, 09:16 PM   #731
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Indeed, the UK figure for mass shootings in 2018 was 0, which was the same as 2017. I am not sure of any (outwith terrorist attacks) in Europe either.
So no change, eh? At least the rate dropped in the US.
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Old 26th January 2019, 09:28 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
So no change, eh? At least the rate dropped in the US.
Way to stay positive
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Old 26th January 2019, 10:42 PM   #733
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
5 dead after shooting spree in Louisiana







https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/26/us/lo...ngs/index.html
Is he an illegal immigrant?
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Old 27th January 2019, 03:52 AM   #734
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
So no change, eh? At least the rate dropped in the US.
I know, we Brits must improve on 0 mass shootings last year.
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Old 27th January 2019, 03:57 AM   #735
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There have been 24 mass shootings so far in 2019 (to yesterday 26th Jan).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2019

Last year there had been 16 to the same date.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2018
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Old 27th January 2019, 06:01 AM   #736
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Is he an illegal immigrant?
It's bad enough to make a stupidly naive political statement couched as a question (which is, in itself, a derail) but to double down on it?

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Old 28th January 2019, 06:46 AM   #737
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
There have been 24 mass shootings so far in 2019 (to yesterday 26th Jan).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2019

Last year there had been 16 to the same date.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2018

It's weird how similar all of these shootings are. The vast majority end with 4-5 people dead or injured. On a cursory glance, the most common cause seems to be gang-related, with escalating arguments being the second most common, and most of those occurring in or around bars/nighclubs or otherwise alcohol-related. Home-invasion robberies seem to be third most common.

There's not enough detail in the Wikipedia articles to say all of that for certain, though; and it's highly possible that a lot of those apparently gang-related shootings (drive-bys and such) are white supremacist attacks on minorities. Unfortunately, the article does not seem to differentiate, and the way that the shootings are performed seem to be very similar in many cases.
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Old 28th January 2019, 03:00 PM   #738
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
It's weird how similar all of these shootings are. The vast majority end with 4-5 people dead or injured. On a cursory glance, the most common cause seems to be gang-related, with escalating arguments being the second most common, and most of those occurring in or around bars/nighclubs or otherwise alcohol-related. Home-invasion robberies seem to be third most common.

There's not enough detail in the Wikipedia articles to say all of that for certain, though; and it's highly possible that a lot of those apparently gang-related shootings (drive-bys and such) are white supremacist attacks on minorities. Unfortunately, the article does not seem to differentiate, and the way that the shootings are performed seem to be very similar in many cases.
How many were committed by women?
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Old 29th January 2019, 06:37 AM   #739
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
It's weird how similar all of these shootings are. The vast majority end with 4-5 people dead or injured. On a cursory glance, the most common cause seems to be gang-related, with escalating arguments being the second most common, and most of those occurring in or around bars/nighclubs or otherwise alcohol-related. Home-invasion robberies seem to be third most common.

There's not enough detail in the Wikipedia articles to say all of that for certain, though; and it's highly possible that a lot of those apparently gang-related shootings (drive-bys and such) are white supremacist attacks on minorities. Unfortunately, the article does not seem to differentiate, and the way that the shootings are performed seem to be very similar in many cases.
The Gun Violence Archive has details on shooting incidents in the United States.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r.../mass-shooting

Last edited by Kestrel; 29th January 2019 at 06:38 AM. Reason: Fix link
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:54 AM   #740
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
It's weird how similar all of these shootings are. The vast majority end with 4-5 people dead or injured. On a cursory glance, the most common cause seems to be gang-related, with escalating arguments being the second most common, and most of those occurring in or around bars/nighclubs or otherwise alcohol-related. Home-invasion robberies seem to be third most common.

There's not enough detail in the Wikipedia articles to say all of that for certain, though; and it's highly possible that a lot of those apparently gang-related shootings (drive-bys and such) are white supremacist attacks on minorities. Unfortunately, the article does not seem to differentiate, and the way that the shootings are performed seem to be very similar in many cases.
From what I have read, the a large proportion are gang related. That the point being made by many here who objected to legislation that would affect the generally law abiding. They do not cause much of the problem and there is already legislation that allows the police to get guns of criminals and gang members. They just need to start properly enforcing it and the supply needs to be dried up.

I then realised that was going to be pretty much impossible to achieve, so the USA has to just develop coping strategies.
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Old 29th January 2019, 09:14 AM   #741
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
From what I have read, the a large proportion are gang related. That the point being made by many here who objected to legislation that would affect the generally law abiding. They do not cause much of the problem and there is already legislation that allows the police to get guns of criminals and gang members. They just need to start properly enforcing it and the supply needs to be dried up.

I then realised that was going to be pretty much impossible to achieve, so the USA has to just develop coping strategies.
You could blame gangs, which would cover most gun violence, maybe even 60 or 70%. Or you could blame men, which would cover more than 95% of mass shootings.

As a man I find this very disturbing. This is an American problem, but it is a problem caused almost entirely by one half of America, American men.

Should it be much harder for men to buy guns in America?
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Old 29th January 2019, 09:37 AM   #742
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Does someone track if the shooting was done by legally owned gun ?
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Old 29th January 2019, 10:16 AM   #743
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Does someone track if the shooting was done by legally owned gun ?
Guns don't shoot people........( we all know the drill )
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Old 29th January 2019, 10:41 AM   #744
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Does someone track if the shooting was done by legally owned gun ?
One problem with guns being so easily obtained is that there is very little difference in price between a legally owned gun and an illegally owned gun.

Imagine it was illegal for a diabetic in your country to buy, own, or possess a can of soda. But there was no real enforcement except at the cash register. So, if your brother was diabetic he could come over to your house and drink your legally owned soda without you facing any real consequences. In fact, he could buy soda from friends who didn't even know he was a diabetic without breaking any law.

At that point, it doesn't really matter if the sodas is legally owned or not, they are just ubiquitous.
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Old 29th January 2019, 12:47 PM   #745
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
From what I have read, the a large proportion are gang related. That the point being made by many here who objected to legislation that would affect the generally law abiding. They do not cause much of the problem and there is already legislation that allows the police to get guns of criminals and gang members. They just need to start properly enforcing it and the supply needs to be dried up.

Except that, thanks to the NRA and their lackeys in Congress, those laws are almost toothless, and do very little to prevent gangs from acquiring firearms of all sorts.

Straw purchases in states with lax background check and reporting requirements account for a huge percentage of otherwise legal firearms ending up in the hands of gang members and other criminals. Stolen weapons account for a smaller but still very large percentage. Given the sheer number of legally-possessed firearms in this country, it's impossible to keep criminals from obtaining firearms. In some states, it's easier to obtain guns illegally than it is to purchase them through legal means.
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Old 29th January 2019, 01:57 PM   #746
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
One problem with guns being so easily obtained is that there is very little difference in price between a legally owned gun and an illegally owned gun.

Imagine it was illegal for a diabetic in your country to buy, own, or possess a can of soda. But there was no real enforcement except at the cash register. So, if your brother was diabetic he could come over to your house and drink your legally owned soda without you facing any real consequences. In fact, he could buy soda from friends who didn't even know he was a diabetic without breaking any law.

At that point, it doesn't really matter if the sodas is legally owned or not, they are just ubiquitous.
Sure .. still there are important differences. If most of the crime is done with legally held (obtained) weapons, it means you can affect it somehow with rules of how to obtain them. Not entirelly, sure.
If most is illegal, but obtained legally and then transferred, you should prevent the transfer in the first place. For example where I live the guns are registered to the person, and you are responsible for the gun, and you must present it for inspection at any time. And if your gun gets stolen, it's on you.
I think the registration could be middle ground. But if the crime is dont using completely legal guns, registration would change nothing.
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Old 29th January 2019, 04:00 PM   #747
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
The Gun Violence Archive has details on shooting incidents in the United States.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r.../mass-shooting
I've been told that that is a partisan site with an anti-gun agenda, and is therefore not to be believed. ()
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Old 29th January 2019, 05:07 PM   #748
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Sure .. still there are important differences. If most of the crime is done with legally held (obtained) weapons, it means you can affect it somehow with rules of how to obtain them. Not entirelly, sure.
If most is illegal, but obtained legally and then transferred, you should prevent the transfer in the first place. For example where I live the guns are registered to the person, and you are responsible for the gun, and you must present it for inspection at any time. And if your gun gets stolen, it's on you.
I think the registration could be middle ground. But if the crime is dont using completely legal guns, registration would change nothing.
To the NRA "registration" is synonymous with "ban". So, while in your country the distinction is interesting, it is a bit of a non-starter, locally.

Also, they are not big fans of requiring much from person to person sales. That one boggles me a bit.
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Old 29th January 2019, 05:17 PM   #749
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I've been told that that is a partisan site with an anti-gun agenda, and is therefore not to be believed. ()
That is, when the facts contradict your operative fairy-tale, then the facts are wrong.

*SIGH*
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:00 AM   #750
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
To the NRA "registration" is synonymous with "ban". So, while in your country the distinction is interesting, it is a bit of a non-starter, locally.

Also, they are not big fans of requiring much from person to person sales. That one boggles me a bit.
Yup, this is where the US is messed up. I could buy a rifle, handgun, or shotgun in a couple of hours of asking friends. There would be no background check or even reasonable questions about mental stability.

Much easier than going to a responsible dealer and getting one.
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:03 AM   #751
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Yup, this is where the US is messed up. I could buy a rifle, handgun, or shotgun in a couple of hours of asking friends. There would be no background check or even reasonable questions about mental stability.

Much easier than going to a responsible dealer and getting one.
My brother has more guns than shoes. He is constantly buying and selling guns. I don't think he has bought anything from a gun shop or licensed dealer in a decade or more.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:07 AM   #752
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
You could blame gangs, which would cover most gun violence, maybe even 60 or 70%. Or you could blame men, which would cover more than 95% of mass shootings.

As a man I find this very disturbing. This is an American problem, but it is a problem caused almost entirely by one half of America, American men.

Should it be much harder for men to buy guns in America?
It should be much harder for those unsuitable to have a gun, to be able to get one, by any means. The reason why no where else has the USA's problem is that everywhere else criminals, gangs, etc find it harder to get guns.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:11 AM   #753
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Yup, this is where the US is messed up. I could buy a rifle, handgun, or shotgun in a couple of hours of asking friends. There would be no background check or even reasonable questions about mental stability.

Much easier than going to a responsible dealer and getting one.
I do think that is the main issue, ease of access for everyone. The USA cannot control its gun problem because there are so many.

There is now the situation where for example, law abiding citizens in Texas with a CCW permit are heavily controlled, but the gangs and criminals of Texas can easily get a gun with no controls.
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Old 31st January 2019, 10:50 AM   #754
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I do think that is the main issue, ease of access for everyone. The USA cannot control its gun problem because there are so many.

There is now the situation where for example, law abiding citizens in Texas with a CCW permit are heavily controlled, but the gangs and criminals of Texas can easily get a gun with no controls.
Not really. It is a one day class and you don't even have to show you learned much. Then, you don't have to tell them if you have guns or how many or what type. And there are no additional restrictions on CC permit holders. At most, I'd say law abiding citizens may chose to sign up for more freedoms, but I would not say the are heavily controlled for having made that choice.

It is easy for anyone to get a gun in Texas. And most transfers gang members and criminals are perfectly legal from the sellers point of view unless the seller is a licensed dealer or knows that the person they are selling to is not allowed to have a gun. This is what is inaccurately referred to as the "gun-show loophole." It is so much bigger than any gun show.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:29 AM   #755
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Not really. It is a one day class and you don't even have to show you learned much. Then, you don't have to tell them if you have guns or how many or what type. And there are no additional restrictions on CC permit holders. At most, I'd say law abiding citizens may chose to sign up for more freedoms, but I would not say the are heavily controlled for having made that choice.

It is easy for anyone to get a gun in Texas. And most transfers gang members and criminals are perfectly legal from the sellers point of view unless the seller is a licensed dealer or knows that the person they are selling to is not allowed to have a gun. This is what is inaccurately referred to as the "gun-show loophole." It is so much bigger than any gun show.
The list of requirements to show that the applicant is a suitable person includes stuff that is not even needed in the UK, such as information about debt. Then the UK does not even require a one day class.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:51 AM   #756
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The list of requirements to show that the applicant is a suitable person includes stuff that is not even needed in the UK, such as information about debt. Then the UK does not even require a one day class.
I didn't think you gave out concealed carry permits that easily.

Simply owning depending on the state is just buy the gun from someone. This is a crime if you are not legally allowed to own it but there isn't any kind of checking. The extra steps there were for a concealed carry permit.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:31 PM   #757
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I didn't think you gave out concealed carry permits that easily.

Simply owning depending on the state is just buy the gun from someone. This is a crime if you are not legally allowed to own it but there isn't any kind of checking. The extra steps there were for a concealed carry permit.
I was just saying that to get a UK firearms licence is about as hard for a law abiding Brit as it is for a law abiding Texan to get a CCW. They are roughly equivalent.
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Old 6th February 2019, 10:23 AM   #758
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I was just saying that to get a UK firearms licence is about as hard for a law abiding Brit as it is for a law abiding Texan to get a CCW. They are roughly equivalent.
The difference is after one acquired the license. In the US one can lose the right to own a firearm only in theory. Enforcement is entirely of the “you promise you don’t have any guns? Okay then” variety.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:07 PM   #759
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Five dead in Texas shooting. No suspects so a family mass shooting and suicide probably.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/5-found-d...g-sheriff-says
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:46 AM   #760
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
The difference is after one acquired the license. In the US one can lose the right to own a firearm only in theory. Enforcement is entirely of the “you promise you don’t have any guns? Okay then” variety.
It does happen on occasion. A friend told me about the police visiting his brother in law on an unrelated matter. The officers knew the brother in law had a felony record and noticed a large gun safe in his living room. They came back with a warrant to search the safe and discovered his gun collection.

When he acquired the guns it was perfectly legal in my state for a private party to sell a firearm to a stranger with no questions asked and no record of the sale. The buyer may have been committing a crime but the seller was not.

It is still that way in most states. Search for local private parties on Armslist selling guns you want. Meet somewhere and pay cash for the gun. Or go to a gun show and look for the private sellers. Pay cash to avoid creating a paper trail.
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