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#721 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 20,053
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It's the victims' fault for not having guns themselves, of course. Unless they are actually vicsims.
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#722 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,602
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#723 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,381
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#724 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,639
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He killed everyone in the bank. Four employees and one customer. All were female. He made them lay face-down on the floor and then shot them in the back of the head with a 9mm handgun. He was wearing a ballistic vest.
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#725 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 39,644
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Was he an illegal immigrant?
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes |
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#726 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,920
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." |
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#727 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,602
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#728 |
Quester of Doglets
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,468
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I'm hoping that the numbers will continue to decline as the effects of lead poisoning, from leaded petrol, continue to decline.
Unfortunately, that seems to mean as the affected people become too infirm to commit violent crimes, or die. There's a long tail on some of these things... |
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We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato. |
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#729 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,639
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5 dead after shooting spree in Louisiana
Originally Posted by CNN
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#730 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,437
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Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#731 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,427
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"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov |
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#732 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,437
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__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#733 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 39,644
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__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes |
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#734 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,602
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#735 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,602
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There have been 24 mass shootings so far in 2019 (to yesterday 26th Jan).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2019 Last year there had been 16 to the same date. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2018 |
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#736 |
Professional Nemesis for Hire
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 5,846
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A baby smoking? That's child abuse - UncaYimmy Your avatar really cracked me up the first hundred or so times I saw it...Now, it gets on my nerves.. - Skeptical Greg ![]() |
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#737 |
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,129
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It's weird how similar all of these shootings are. The vast majority end with 4-5 people dead or injured. On a cursory glance, the most common cause seems to be gang-related, with escalating arguments being the second most common, and most of those occurring in or around bars/nighclubs or otherwise alcohol-related. Home-invasion robberies seem to be third most common. There's not enough detail in the Wikipedia articles to say all of that for certain, though; and it's highly possible that a lot of those apparently gang-related shootings (drive-bys and such) are white supremacist attacks on minorities. Unfortunately, the article does not seem to differentiate, and the way that the shootings are performed seem to be very similar in many cases. |
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"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams "The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf "Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon |
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#738 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,818
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#739 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,936
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The Gun Violence Archive has details on shooting incidents in the United States.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r.../mass-shooting |
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#740 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,602
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From what I have read, the a large proportion are gang related. That the point being made by many here who objected to legislation that would affect the generally law abiding. They do not cause much of the problem and there is already legislation that allows the police to get guns of criminals and gang members. They just need to start properly enforcing it and the supply needs to be dried up.
I then realised that was going to be pretty much impossible to achieve, so the USA has to just develop coping strategies. |
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#741 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,818
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You could blame gangs, which would cover most gun violence, maybe even 60 or 70%. Or you could blame men, which would cover more than 95% of mass shootings.
As a man I find this very disturbing. This is an American problem, but it is a problem caused almost entirely by one half of America, American men. Should it be much harder for men to buy guns in America? |
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#742 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,743
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Does someone track if the shooting was done by legally owned gun ?
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#743 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,437
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__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#744 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,818
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One problem with guns being so easily obtained is that there is very little difference in price between a legally owned gun and an illegally owned gun.
Imagine it was illegal for a diabetic in your country to buy, own, or possess a can of soda. But there was no real enforcement except at the cash register. So, if your brother was diabetic he could come over to your house and drink your legally owned soda without you facing any real consequences. In fact, he could buy soda from friends who didn't even know he was a diabetic without breaking any law. At that point, it doesn't really matter if the sodas is legally owned or not, they are just ubiquitous. |
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#745 |
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,129
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Except that, thanks to the NRA and their lackeys in Congress, those laws are almost toothless, and do very little to prevent gangs from acquiring firearms of all sorts. Straw purchases in states with lax background check and reporting requirements account for a huge percentage of otherwise legal firearms ending up in the hands of gang members and other criminals. Stolen weapons account for a smaller but still very large percentage. Given the sheer number of legally-possessed firearms in this country, it's impossible to keep criminals from obtaining firearms. In some states, it's easier to obtain guns illegally than it is to purchase them through legal means. |
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"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams "The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf "Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon |
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#746 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,743
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Sure .. still there are important differences. If most of the crime is done with legally held (obtained) weapons, it means you can affect it somehow with rules of how to obtain them. Not entirelly, sure.
If most is illegal, but obtained legally and then transferred, you should prevent the transfer in the first place. For example where I live the guns are registered to the person, and you are responsible for the gun, and you must present it for inspection at any time. And if your gun gets stolen, it's on you. I think the registration could be middle ground. But if the crime is dont using completely legal guns, registration would change nothing. |
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#747 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,381
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#748 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,818
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#749 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,391
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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#750 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,631
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Yup, this is where the US is messed up. I could buy a rifle, handgun, or shotgun in a couple of hours of asking friends. There would be no background check or even reasonable questions about mental stability.
Much easier than going to a responsible dealer and getting one. |
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'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
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#751 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,818
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#752 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,602
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__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#753 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,602
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I do think that is the main issue, ease of access for everyone. The USA cannot control its gun problem because there are so many.
There is now the situation where for example, law abiding citizens in Texas with a CCW permit are heavily controlled, but the gangs and criminals of Texas can easily get a gun with no controls. |
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#754 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,818
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Not really. It is a one day class and you don't even have to show you learned much. Then, you don't have to tell them if you have guns or how many or what type. And there are no additional restrictions on CC permit holders. At most, I'd say law abiding citizens may chose to sign up for more freedoms, but I would not say the are heavily controlled for having made that choice.
It is easy for anyone to get a gun in Texas. And most transfers gang members and criminals are perfectly legal from the sellers point of view unless the seller is a licensed dealer or knows that the person they are selling to is not allowed to have a gun. This is what is inaccurately referred to as the "gun-show loophole." It is so much bigger than any gun show. |
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#755 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,602
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#756 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,170
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I didn't think you gave out concealed carry permits that easily.
Simply owning depending on the state is just buy the gun from someone. This is a crime if you are not legally allowed to own it but there isn't any kind of checking. The extra steps there were for a concealed carry permit. |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#757 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,602
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__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#758 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,631
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'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
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#759 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 39,644
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Five dead in Texas shooting. No suspects so a family mass shooting and suicide probably.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/5-found-d...g-sheriff-says |
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes |
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#760 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,936
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It does happen on occasion. A friend told me about the police visiting his brother in law on an unrelated matter. The officers knew the brother in law had a felony record and noticed a large gun safe in his living room. They came back with a warrant to search the safe and discovered his gun collection.
When he acquired the guns it was perfectly legal in my state for a private party to sell a firearm to a stranger with no questions asked and no record of the sale. The buyer may have been committing a crime but the seller was not. It is still that way in most states. Search for local private parties on Armslist selling guns you want. Meet somewhere and pay cash for the gun. Or go to a gun show and look for the private sellers. Pay cash to avoid creating a paper trail. |
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