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Tags donald trump , gun control issues , gun control laws , stephen paddock , Trump controversies

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Old 1st October 2018, 07:09 PM   #1
Ranb
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Trump, The Gun Control President.

Trump says ban on 'bump stocks' coming

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/01/polit...cks/index.html
Quote:
Trump was asked at a Rose Garden news conference about the progress of regulations to eliminate the devices, which allow semi-automatic weapons to fire at a more rapid rate.
"In order to eliminate -- terminate -- bump stocks, we have to go through procedure. We are now at the final stages of that procedure," he said.
"We are knocking out bump stocks. I have told the (National Rifle Association) -- bump stocks are gone. But to do that, you have to go to public hearings, which we have had. You have to go through all sorts of regulatory control systems."


President Obama had no luck with any meaningful gun control proposals.
https://www.thoughtco.com/obama-gun-...ngress-3367595
Quote:
....the number of Obama gun laws that made it through Congress during his two terms in office comes in at only two, and neither placed additional restrictions on gun owners. In fact, the two gun laws signed by Obama actually expanded the rights of gun owners in the United States.
The laws passed during Obama's time in office included measures to allow carrying in national parks and in checked luggage on trains. 41P also relaxed certain regulations regarding transfer of NFA firearms such as machine guns and silencers.

Trump is going to go down as the gun control president compared to Obama. But don't think the NRA is going to say so. Some of my facebook "friends" who have let their strange political views become exposed don't see this happening either. Trump is GOP and can do no wrong.

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Old 1st October 2018, 07:14 PM   #2
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Indeed. Obama deported far more people during his tenure than Republicans give credit for too because it doesn't fit their reality.
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Old 1st October 2018, 07:31 PM   #3
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Trump is simply saying whatever he needs to say to try to look good. There is likely no such legislation in the pipeline at all.
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Old 1st October 2018, 07:33 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Trump says ban on 'bump stocks' coming

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/01/polit...cks/index.html




President Obama had no luck with any meaningful gun control proposals.
https://www.thoughtco.com/obama-gun-...ngress-3367595


The laws passed during Obama's time in office included measures to allow carrying in national parks and in checked luggage on trains. 41P also relaxed certain regulations regarding transfer of NFA firearms such as machine guns and silencers.

Trump is going to go down as the gun control president compared to Obama. But don't think the NRA is going to say so. Some of my facebook "friends" who have let their strange political views become exposed don't see this happening either. Trump is GOP and can do no wrong.

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Old 1st October 2018, 07:43 PM   #5
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Old 1st October 2018, 08:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Trump is simply saying whatever he needs to say to try to look good. There is likely no such legislation in the pipeline at all.
I agree it all depends on what makes Trump look good. I'm fairly certain he will not be trying to score points with the Democrats by supporting any gun control legislation or regulations.
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Old 1st October 2018, 08:45 PM   #7
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"I like taking the guns early..."

*Republican crickets*
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Old 1st October 2018, 08:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I agree it all depends on what makes Trump look good. I'm fairly certain he will not be trying to score points with the Democrats by supporting any gun control legislation or regulations.
I think it has been well established that what Trump says has no relation whatsoever to reality. It was the one year anniversary of the Las Vegas shooting and he felt the need to allow words to spill from his word hole to make himself feel better. Nothing will come of it initiated by him.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 12:32 AM   #9
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Trump may well get away with shooting someone on Fifth Avenue, but he is a goner if he tries to take away America’s guns.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 12:37 AM   #10
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oddly enough, I don't think the NRA can risk publicly disagreeing with Trump.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 01:24 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Trump is simply saying whatever he needs to say to try to look good. There is likely no such legislation in the pipeline at all.
FTFY!

There really is no rational thought behind anything he says, he's the human equivalent of a magic 8-ball, just without the accuracy and lucidity.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 04:54 AM   #12
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Even if Trump does nothing about guns, he will be known partly as the president who did less for gun owners/makers than Obama. Of course all of his other "qualities" will far out-shine on his record on guns.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 05:12 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
oddly enough, I don't think the NRA can risk publicly disagreeing with Trump.
Nah, they can put out statements and oppose this without ever mentioning the name Trump. Since there doesn’t seem to be anything in the pipeline and Trump & his hardcore followers have the memories of goldfish they will easily defeat this without casting shade on him.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 05:16 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
"Only Nixon could go to China"
- Old Vulcan proverb
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Old 2nd October 2018, 06:30 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Nah, they can put out statements and oppose this without ever mentioning the name Trump. Since there doesn’t seem to be anything in the pipeline and Trump & his hardcore followers have the memories of goldfish they will easily defeat this without casting shade on him.


Yeah, all they'll need to do is list all the prominent Democrats who are voting for the bill, and none of the Trumpists will notice his signature at the bottom.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 08:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
"Only Nixon could go to China"
Because he was a damn socialist with his universal health care proposals and creating the EPA. He was trying to defect.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 08:49 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I agree it all depends on what makes Trump look good. I'm fairly certain he will not be trying to score points with the Democrats by supporting any gun control legislation or regulations.
Trump tries to score points with who ever he is talking to regardless of if he contradicts what he said 5 minutes ago.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 10:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because he was a damn socialist with his universal health care proposals and creating the EPA. He was trying to defect.
Now THAT was funny.
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Old 18th December 2018, 10:15 AM   #19
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Trump administration officially bans bump stocks
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/18/polit...ban/index.html
Quote:
Bump stocks gained national attention last year after a gunman in Las Vegas rigged his weapons with the devices to fire on concertgoers, killing 58 people.

Officials at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives had previously concluded bump stocks were merely a gun accessory or firearm part, not subject to federal regulation, but President Donald Trump called on the Justice Department to outlaw the devices soon after the tragedy.

Justice Department officials told CNN Tuesday they took a "fresh look" at the case law, technology, and the devices and their functionality "in light of modern developments."

The rule concludes that bump-fire stocks, "slide-fire" devices, and devices with certain similar characteristics all fall within the prohibition on machine guns by allowing a "shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger," and therefore, they are illegal under federal law.
I think the bolded is really not true.

When the ATF reversed themselves years go on the Akins Accelerator (a bump stock with a spring to assist in the back and forth rocking of the action in the stock) they made it clear the spring was the offending component and required that owners of the stock surrender only the spring.

The existing (previously) legal bump stocks obviously to not operate with a single pull of the trigger. The trigger is pulled only when pressure on the handguard is maintained. The shooter is physically pulling the trigger for each shot.

But yeah, Trump has managed to do something Obama never could; his administration banned a gun/accessory. This will of course have zero effect on crime in the USA.
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Old 18th December 2018, 11:03 AM   #20
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That's the problem that pro-gun folks are going to discover, sooner or later. Gun rights has become a strictly partisan issue, with Republicans mostly for and Dems against. But gun owners really don't have much leverage if Republicans betray the cause, because they are still going to be better than the D's on the issue.

If you are a gun owner and you don't like this move by the Republican president, what are you going to do? You surely aren't going to vote D. Maybe make some noise during the primary, but that's about it. The Republicans have captured this issue and the NRA. Gun owners are now stuck with the abusive spouse, because they really can't do any better.

Rick Scott is another example. He bucked the NRA line after the school shooting when he was governor. Still won his Senate race with a NRA rating of C (previously A+). His Democratic opponent had an F, so there's really no choice for the single issue voter. Take the C or protest vote and risk the F.
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Old 18th December 2018, 11:34 AM   #21
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NRA is hurting right now, caught between the Carry Guard lawsuits and the Russian influence peddling issues, some loss of corporate sponsorship. They are at the lowest level of political influence in decades. They'll probably recover once the Dem's get more political power again. Down but not out.

This is kind of an odd thing for Trump to do, in the sense that this is regulation rather than legislation. This will be challenged in court, and Trump's administration will be forced to defend something that is very unpopular with his base. He can't blame it on bad legislation foisted upon him by congress, this is his thing to own.

Last edited by crescent; 18th December 2018 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 18th December 2018, 11:48 AM   #22
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Haha that's an awesomely ****** up way of looking at it.

Obama even talks about guns while he's in office, "HE'S COMIN' FER YURE GUNZZ! HIDE YER PEW PEWS"

Now for some reason the lines changes to, "Trump able to do something that Obama couldn't and ban them."

Can you explain what made Obama "unable" to do it or did he just not do it? Just curious on what power has been granted to Trump.

If you guys could stay consistent between administrations at all I'd **** a gold brick. For stupid.

As far as the ban stocks, I'll give Trump minor props, but you're right. It's an empty gesture that you guys still don't hesitate to congratulate him for....neat.
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Old 18th December 2018, 12:31 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Obama even talks about guns while he's in office, "HE'S COMIN' FER YURE GUNZZ! HIDE YER PEW PEWS"
The opinions in the OP are mine. I do not recall thinking that any gun bill Obama supported had a good chance of passing; therefore I never gave in to the "panic" that you suggest occurred.

Quote:
Now for some reason the lines changes to, "Trump able to do something that Obama couldn't and ban them."
This is my slam on Trump. Trump is supposed to be the one who would ease restrictions, as some people I know thought he would do. Instead Trump, who only cares about himself, is not about to do anything substantial when it comes to easing restrictions on gun owners.

Quote:
Can you explain what made Obama "unable" to do it or did he just not do it? Just curious on what power has been granted to Trump.
No new power. New gun control restrictions just didn't happen for the most part during Obama's administration. Trump is doing more to alienate gun owners than Obama.

Quote:
As far as the ban stocks, I'll give Trump minor props, but you're right. It's an empty gesture that you guys still don't hesitate to congratulate him for....neat.
Props for what? Did you think Trump thought he was doing something good for the country as a whole? I think you are too kind towards Trump.
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Old 18th December 2018, 12:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The opinions in the OP are mine. I do not recall thinking that any gun bill Obama supported had a good chance of passing; therefore I never gave in to the "panic" that you suggest occurred.
He didn't even need to propose anything, look at the ammo shortages and massive sales of black rifles as soon as he got elected. You might not have bought into it, but it was enough to drive massive profits in gun manufacturers for the duration of his tenure in office. Now of course they are all screwed because without the terror of not being able to run a proper terrorist campaign people are just not buying as many guns.

Hell even the record setting mass shootings barely helped gun sales at all. That used to be serious profits for the manufacturers of the weapons used.
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Old 18th December 2018, 12:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
He didn't even need to propose anything, look at the ammo shortages and massive sales of black rifles as soon as he got elected. .....
Got that right. I was trying to assemble a couple of ar-15/10's back then and the only supplier I could find for parts was Amazon. The shipping was higher because there were four separate companies selling what I bought through Amazon.
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Old 18th December 2018, 12:58 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Got that right. I was trying to assemble a couple of ar-15/10's back then and the only supplier I could find for parts was Amazon. The shipping was higher because there were four separate companies selling what I bought through Amazon.
It was a bonanza for the fly by night AR lower manufacturers. Plenty were cranking out total crap and it was flying off the shelves at stupid prices. The panic buying was insane. I'm glad to see these losers go under after the buying spree ended.
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Old 18th December 2018, 08:32 PM   #27
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Why would anyone want a bump stock? Though I am not a firearms enthusiast, I can see where it might be fun to use at a gun range, but wouldn't the ammo cost a fortune?

ETA: There's an irony in the NRA supporting Trump. He hasn't been good for sales. As others have said, the paranoia of "the government coming to take your guns" works better when Dems hold the power. I don't "get" the NRA I guess.

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Old 18th December 2018, 09:15 PM   #28
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This is comedy gold.
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Old 18th December 2018, 10:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The existing (previously) legal bump stocks obviously to not operate with a single pull of the trigger. The trigger is pulled only when pressure on the handguard is maintained. The shooter is physically pulling the trigger for each shot.
I would disagree with this. As you noted, the pressure on the hand guard must be maintained for the gun to continue to fire, the user only pulls the trigger once, then must maintain that position. From then on, it is not the shooter pulling the trigger, but the gun itself which is using the recoil as a way to push the trigger against a stationary finger and so continuously fire. If the shooter was physically pulling the trigger each time, they would have to actually release and reapply the pressure to perform the action, which they are not doing. They are acting in the same way as firing a fully automatic, making one squeeze of the trigger, and then the gun is doing the rest. The difference is that in one case the trigger is continuously depressed, and in the other, the gun slides back with the recoil, then forward again with enough force to depress the trigger once more.
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Old 18th December 2018, 10:38 PM   #30
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Trump Bans Bump Stocks

Donald Trump bans 'bump stocks' used in Las Vegas mass shooting

Quote:
The Trump administration has banned the high-power gun attachments of the type used in last year's Las Vegas shooting massacre of 58 people, giving the owners of "bump stocks" 90 days to turn in or destroy the devices and blocking owners from being able to register them.

United States President Donald Trump's Republican Party typically supports gun ownership, and its members have fiercely fought off perceived threats to the US constitution's second amendment guaranteeing Americans the right to bear arms.

His administration, though, is sidestepping any potential debate in Congress in issuing a final rule that adds bump stocks to a definition of machine guns written 80 years ago, during the heyday of gangsters' use of "tommy guns".
Good. About time. These devices have no purpose apart from making it easier to kill more people in less time.
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Old 18th December 2018, 10:45 PM   #31
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Looks like Agolf Twitler finally made a good move. Now let's see his 2nd amendmentards explain this away.

Let me guess, it'll be something like "only marxists buy bumpstocks anyways, lol he just owned the libs so hard!"
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Old 18th December 2018, 10:52 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I would disagree with this. As you noted, the pressure on the hand guard must be maintained for the gun to continue to fire,
True.

Quote:
the user only pulls the trigger once, then must maintain that position.
Not true. Since the action is semi-auto, the trigger must be pulled for each shot. The bump fire stocks that slide freely on the buffer tube (for the ar-15) and are not equipped with a spring requires shooter action to pull the trigger each time.

Quote:
From then on, it is not the shooter pulling the trigger, but the gun itself which is using the recoil as a way to push the trigger against a stationary finger and so continuously fire.
The recoil of the gun pushes back the action and allows the trigger to reset so that it can fire again when the chamber is reloaded. The action of the person pushing the hand guard forward is what actually presses the trigger.

Quote:
If the shooter was physically pulling the trigger each time, they would have to actually release and reapply the pressure to perform the action, which they are not doing.
The shooter pulls the trigger by pushing the hand guard forward which presses the trigger against the trigger finger.
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Old 18th December 2018, 10:56 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Why would anyone want a bump stock?
Its a novelty.

Quote:
Though I am not a firearms enthusiast, I can see where it might be fun to use at a gun range, but wouldn't the ammo cost a fortune?
I've bump fired an ar-15 with and without a bump stock. It was amusing for a bit, then it become stupid as it was only a way to make noise and dump a bunch of ammo downrange and not hitting the target unless it was large and close.
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Old 18th December 2018, 11:02 PM   #34
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Maybe his press secretary will say Trump actually meant to ban hump stocks?

I've been mocking Trump on this issue since October here; http://www.internationalskeptics.com...highlight=ranb
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Old 18th December 2018, 11:46 PM   #35
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Maybe his press secretary will say Trump actually meant to ban hump stocks?

I've been mocking Trump on this issue since October here; http://www.internationalskeptics.com...highlight=ranb
I didn't see that because I don't follow the USA Politics subforum. Perhaps the two topics can be merged?
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Old 19th December 2018, 03:10 AM   #36
WilliamSeger
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Its a novelty.


I've bump fired an ar-15 with and without a bump stock. It was amusing for a bit, then it become stupid as it was only a way to make noise and dump a bunch of ammo downrange and not hitting the target unless it was large and close.
Like a crowd of people?
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Old 19th December 2018, 03:50 AM   #37
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For those that are curious, this is what they do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IOZ-5Nk5k
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Old 19th December 2018, 06:18 AM   #38
LTC8K6
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The very poor accuracy when using a bump stock might have saved lives that night, though.

I can imagine the wide scatter when using a bump stock at 400 yards.

Paddock might have killed way more people if he'd used illegally modded full-auto rifles, which he could have held on target much better.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 19th December 2018, 07:08 AM   #39
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This is one of the very good things I have seen come out of this Administration. Unfortunately it is overwhelmed by everything else that's going on at the moment.
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Old 19th December 2018, 07:19 AM   #40
BStrong
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The very poor accuracy when using a bump stock might have saved lives that night, though.

I can imagine the wide scatter when using a bump stock at 400 yards.

Paddock might have killed way more people if he'd used illegally modded full-auto rifles, which he could have held on target much better.
He's need to have access to someone who could do the job or the skill to do it himself.

The firearms in question can not be modified into their full-auto cousins by simple part substitution. It takes machine work and knowledge of the original design.
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