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#1 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 19,054
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South Carolina demands right to discriminate against Jews and non-Protestants
Quote:
https://theintercept.com/2018/10/19/...ll-ministries/ |
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#2 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,268
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At which point it would become illegal for the state to use those faith-based agencies. Non-news.
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Great minds discuss ideas. Medium minds discuss events. Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook. |
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#3 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,506
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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#4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,506
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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#6 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,506
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__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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#7 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 28,497
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,067
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To start off with, I pretty much hate religion.
The way I read this is that a Christian Foster Care group wants to place kids in Christian foster homes only. Why shouldn't they be able to do so? Are they funded by the state? If so then I see a problem. End of story for me. They are a "faith-based" foster care agency. I know little about foster care and all the red tape involved, so I'm asking - what's the problem? I mean I see Trumps name in the OP but that doesn't automatically make me against it. |
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Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures. |
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#9 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,506
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Therein lies your problem. It's actually happening. And the governor gave it a thumbs up, via an executive order.
Miracle Hill receives federal funds. They're not allowed to discriminate based on religion. Notwithstanding, the religious nuts who run HHS indicate they support the discrimination. |
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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#10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,249
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#11 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,170
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#12 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,170
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Of course they are, its unconstitutionality doesn't stop the government, see how the courts got around that with the Bush faith based initiatives by ruling that no one had the standing to challenge the unconstitutional behavior in court.
But no republican give anything for any of the bill of rights other than the second amendment. |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#13 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,268
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Wasn't the latest news from SCOTUS that the current bench upheld Planned Parenthood? So no, the Fundy Xtians are not all-powerful.
And this quote from the OP- "THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION is considering...". It doesn't say Trump is doing anything else but "considering". But the TDAs here already know whatever he does will be bad for somebody. |
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Great minds discuss ideas. Medium minds discuss events. Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook. |
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#14 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,249
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Highlight: When exactly do you think is the best time to debate and challenge new policy initiatives: when they are first being considered or after they have already been implemented? It seems to me that the former is the most effective and logical time.
And the quote in the OP says more than just Trump is considering an unstated "something"; it presents a specific policy that is believed to be under consideration. And from my perspective that policy is a very bad idea. The belief it is under consideration may be incorrect, although clearly the issue is already "out there" in SC political debates. Or the policy may indeed be under consideration but will aborted after pushback and the fact that it was ever under consideration will be denied (the goal of discussing and opposing it now). Or the administration may be well on the way to attempting to implement it but a challenge might still halt or modify it. But in any of these 3 cases challenging the policy now is the time to do it. At worse it was not under active consideration and debating it/opposing it now might help keep it that way. |
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#15 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,844
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It's discrimination, regardless of whether they get public funds or not.
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Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t. |
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#16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,249
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Yeah, but in terms of the law the USA allows discrimination in certain contexts. The rules are not simple: the Roman Catholic Church is permitted to hire only Roman Catholics as priests. However if a Catholic Church seeks to hire a custodian they cannot discriminate based on religion. The concept is that religion is core to the job of priest but not of custodian. As an individual I can discriminate against people based on religion, ethnicity, etc. (e.g. who I invite to dinner) but I cannot discriminate as a public business (government funded or not).
All in all it is a delicate balance that works imperfectly. But fundamentalists want to push that balance way toward "My beliefs are the only correct ones and I can do anything I want to anyone else because God himself tells me I am right." Yet at the same time they are complaining about imaginary introductions of Sharia law into the USA. |
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#17 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71,589
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First they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew...
What you're missing when you dismiss this as Trump haters and just a Christian agency is that this is one more Evangelical extremist incursion into government and beyond. From a link within the OP article: HOW A GAY FRIENDLY AND “VERY PRO-CHOICE” TRUMP CREATED THE MOST ANTI-CHOICE, ANTI-LGBT ADMINISTRATION IN GENERATIONS (Caps aren't mine)
Quote:
The OP is one more example of the infiltration bubbling to the surface. It's not just a Christian foster agency, it's a move to indoctrinate all the kids that pass through their agency. |
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Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation. |
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#18 |
Disorder of Kilopi
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 9,448
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Five centuries after Westphalia... Gosh.
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Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp |
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#19 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,506
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You overlooked that the Governor signed an executive order allowing the discrimination. Is that non-news?
You also overlooked the second link (see post #9) in which we learn:
Quote:
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__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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#20 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,067
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Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures. |
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#21 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,391
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Quick question: How will they identify Jews and non-Protestants in order to discriminate? do they have special tattoos in mind?
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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#22 |
Hyperthetical
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 14,509
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A zømbie once bit my sister... |
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#23 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,170
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It is a kind of genius end run around the first amendment. They don't discriminate against jews and gays, they just outsource all the adoptions to christian organizations that discriminate against jews and gays.
Then of course no one has standing to challenge it in court and no matter how unconstitutional it is you get to keep it up. The perfect conservative solution to some of those pesky rights they hate in the constitution. |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#24 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,909
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Oh, pish posh! SC are mere pikers when it comes to wanting to legislate people out of existence. The ironically named Liberty Council is canvassing congress critters to get LGBTQ folk written out of the Justice for Victims of Lynching Act!!
![]() https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...id=recommended Seems that their head bigot thinks anti-lynching is a gateway drug and once you acknowledge that they have a right not to by lynched, why pretty soon they'll be wanting to sit at a lunch counter or marry your sister. It's so sad when you hear these themes reworked after a hundred years and just being applied to whatever the new target group is. |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#25 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,005
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Forcible transfer of children (which is what the state is doing when children are taken into foster care) from one group (like Protestants) to another group (like Jews) is genocide.
Would a Jewish family be OK with their child being taken into foster care and placed with a Catholic family? Would the Jewish community at large be OK with this? Of course, this policy isn't about the Jews but since the news story is spinning it that way, I'll go along. |
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#26 |
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,556
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********. Bad parents losing their children and people who aren't bad parents taking them in do not a gene group make. Some might argue that if you've decided that 'bad parents' is a group, then it deserves to go extinct before its children die or are forced to grow up maimed. The religion or ethnicity of ether bad parents or people who aren't bad parents is irrelevant as all are represented in those two groups.
Should there be a massive push to take children away based on religion, it'll hardly be a minority group managing to absorb the children of the majority. Even the First Nations children weren't all adopted and had to be housed in orphanage boarding schools. Speaking of orphanages, when was the last time you heard of one locally (or statewide, or nationwide)? |
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Normal is just a stereotype. |
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#27 |
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,129
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"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams "The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf "Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon |
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#28 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 17,704
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I thought of it in sort of this way.
The law allows for consideration of religion in cases where religion matters. In principle, you could argue that Christian parents have the right to insist that their children are exposed to a Christian environment. But in this case, the issue is that supposedly-Christian parents have created a situation that is dangerous to their kids, and so the kids need to go live with someone else. I'm not sure these are the parents we want to defer to in determining what is best for the kids. "Yeah, I'm an alcoholic drug user who beats my kids, but it is important to me that they are in a Christian home" I'm not seeing it. |
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"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Gidget, Secret Life of Pets |
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#29 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,391
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I'll prepare a template document right away and make it publicly available. I'll even advise people how to start a non-profit "Reformed Jewish Protestant" church if I have to.
So I will ask again: How will they determine who is Jewish or non-Protestant? If I say I'm Protestant, how do you prove I am not? |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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#30 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,732
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No. The destruction of a distinct ethnic or cultural people group is genocide. Forcibly separating *all* the children from their heritage is one way to accomplish this.
Fostering *some* children is not genocide. You may want to stop and consider how thoroughly you've poisoned the well of all your other arguments, past and future, with this absurd and dishonest hyperbole. |
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#31 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,005
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#32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,732
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#33 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,024
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#34 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 8,487
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#35 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 42,625
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From the wonderful state that started the Civil War......
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#36 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,391
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Still haven't got an answer: How will they determine who is Jewish or non-Protestant? If I say I'm Protestant and have a letter from some obscure pastor in Germany, how do you prove I am not?
Because if they can't identify these people, how can they separate them? |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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#37 |
Hyperthetical
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 14,509
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They are the ones requiring the proof. "If you live here and are Protestant, then you should have a local church you attend. Have that pastor send us a letter." Or: "We don't know your pastor in Germany. But here's the business card of a local pastor who speaks German. Have him talk to your guy and then send us a letter." And: "If you're not willing to do those things, then we won't consider placing a child with you." The "you can't prove I'm not" approach doesn't even work for buying a bottle of beer if you're young looking. You think it can get you a child to adopt? |
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A zømbie once bit my sister... |
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#38 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 42,625
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So the group does not coinsider Catholics to be Christians?
Does not surprise me. Anti Catholism is still pretty widespread among evangelicals;they just find it a good tactic to hide it most of the time. |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#39 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 42,625
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And the truly digusting thing is that Trump really does not really give a damn about religious issues. He is basically just buying the support of Christian Fundies who are whoring themselves out to somebody they know is a hypocrite when it comes to moral issues.
It is enough to make one vomit. |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#40 |
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,129
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"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams "The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf "Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon |
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