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Old 17th January 2019, 10:17 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Hahaha! Of course! Let the violence of the state handle the beating for you! That's what government is for, after all.
You appear to be the only person to have picked up on the tongue-in-cheek-ness of that part of my post.
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Old 17th January 2019, 10:18 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Disagree.
The Dad wasn't the target/aggrieved party. Personal justice should have been dished out by the daughter.
Look at it as a bonding experience.
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Old 17th January 2019, 10:31 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
<respectful snip>

...I'm certainly not. I'm pretty disgusted at the casual disregard of human beings that are indicated here, depending on which category a person is pigeon-holed in.
Apologies, didn't mean to disregard your opinion. Had a sidebar of passive-aggressive patty cake going with white guys falling over themselves to show how Woke they are.

I sympathize with the father protecting his daughter's modesty, or honor...whatever we want to call it. I can even sympathize with wanting to avenge her having been treated like a piece of meat. At the same time, we can't just run around privately breaking peoples' faces over non-violent misdemeanors, universally repulsive though they may be.

This reminds me of the punch-a-nazi argument, although many posters seem to find this OP retribution more acceptable. Kind of makes me wonder how we are defining acceptable cases to act extra judiciously.
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Old 17th January 2019, 10:39 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Apologies, didn't mean to disregard your opinion. Had a sidebar of passive-aggressive patty cake going with white guys falling over themselves to show how Woke they are.

I sympathize with the father protecting his daughter's modesty, or honor...whatever we want to call it. I can even sympathize with wanting to avenge her having been treated like a piece of meat. At the same time, we can't just run around privately breaking peoples' faces over non-violent misdemeanors, universally repulsive though they may be.

This reminds me of the punch-a-nazi argument, although many posters seem to find this OP retribution more acceptable. Kind of makes me wonder how we are defining acceptable cases to act extra judiciously.
This is nothing compared to what a mate of mines brother did when he found out what her friends dad was doing to his daughter when she had stay overs at his house with her friend.

But you will probably be glad to know he was jailed for it.
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Old 17th January 2019, 10:47 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
This is nothing compared to what a mate of mines brother did when he found out what her friends dad was doing to his daughter when she had stay overs at his house with her friend.

But you will probably be glad to know he was jailed for it.
Little hard to follow that chain, but I gather your mate's brother has a daughter who was being abused by her friend's father at sleepovers?

That's a little different than looking in a window, whether Cassidy was diddling himself or not.

That is a whole different game.

eta: what Cassidy did was a non-violent misdemeanor. Was what happened to the brother's daughter comparable to that or no flipping comparison?
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Old 17th January 2019, 10:51 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Little hard to follow that chain, but I gather your mate's brother has a daughter who was being abused by her friend's father at sleepovers?

That's a little different than looking in a window, whether Cassidy was diddling himself or not.

That is a whole different game.
Yeah

Didn't end well.

But my badly made point (bad as in atrociously bad) was it really comes down to how much you can justifiably get away with when provocation is taken into account.

In this case it doesn't even sound like he did that much damage.

In my friends brothers case it definitely was too much to get away with.
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Old 17th January 2019, 10:53 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Apologies, didn't mean to disregard your opinion. Had a sidebar of passive-aggressive patty cake going with white guys falling over themselves to show how Woke they are.

I sympathize with the father protecting his daughter's modesty, or honor...whatever we want to call it. I can even sympathize with wanting to avenge her having been treated like a piece of meat. At the same time, we can't just run around privately breaking peoples' faces over non-violent misdemeanors, universally repulsive though they may be.

This reminds me of the punch-a-nazi argument, although many posters seem to find this OP retribution more acceptable. Kind of makes me wonder how we are defining acceptable cases to act extra judiciously.
Behold; the "Enlightened Centrist".

Meanwhile, out here in the real world, acting like an ass has actual consequences. Which is why nazis and pervs get beat up, and rightfully so.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Old 17th January 2019, 11:13 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Behold; the "Enlightened Centrist".
I, uh...don't think you get what that means.

eta: not camping on the fringes does not warrant contempt

Quote:
Meanwhile, out here in the real world, acting like an ass has actual consequences. Which is why nazis and pervs get beat up, and rightfully so.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
And if someone doesn't like you for any reason, they can clean your clock with impunity? Or does that logic only work for what you deem wrong?
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Old 17th January 2019, 11:25 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I, uh...don't think you get what that means.



And if someone doesn't like you for any reason, they can clean your clock with impunity? Or does that logic only work for what you deem wrong?
Totally different scenario, as I think you know full well

I take it you are not a big believer in "extenuating circumstances"
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Old 17th January 2019, 11:34 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Totally different scenario, as I think you know full well

I take it you are not a big believer in "extenuating circumstances"
Sure am. In this OP for instance, I cut the guy a lot of slack because it was his daughter. What I am wondering here is how much we allow for extenuating circumstances to allow us to circumvent law.

From what I gather about your friend's brother, he gets almost infinite slack. The Op guy, much less. But posters seem mostly supportive of what he did. So I am feeling around for how the determination is made.
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Old 17th January 2019, 11:41 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Sure am. In this OP for instance, I cut the guy a lot of slack because it was his daughter. What I am wondering here is how much we allow for extenuating circumstances to allow us to circumvent law.

From what I gather about your friend's brother, he gets almost infinite slack. The Op guy, much less. But posters seem mostly supportive of what he did. So I am feeling around for how the determination is made.
My friends brother got a long time in jail.

He went round the blokes house with an axe.

Think it was manslaughter in the end.

So personally think jail was deserved.

If he had just broken the guys legs I would tend towards sympathy though.

It is a bit of an odd one, your kids being exploited.

I know people who were saying "well done", so I guess it comes down to individual opinion.
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Old 17th January 2019, 11:49 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
My friends brother got a long time in jail.

He went round the blokes house with an axe.

Think it was manslaughter in the end.

So personally think jail was deserved.

If he had just broken the guys legs I would tend towards sympathy though.

It is a bit of an odd one, your kids being exploited.

I know people who were saying "well done", so I guess it comes down to individual opinion
.
That's the toughest part when you have kids. As much as you'd like to kill anyone that hurt them, you have to be there to keep raising those kids. Dad being in jail hurts the kid even more, when she needs her family there
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Old 17th January 2019, 11:51 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
That's the toughest part when you have kids. As much as you'd like to kill anyone that hurt them, you have to be there to keep raising those kids. Dad being in jail hurts the kid even more, when she needs her family there
Totally and utterly agree.
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Old 18th January 2019, 03:10 AM   #94
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"Dad was acting like a dad. I don’t see anything we should charge the dad with,” Daytona Beach police Chief Mike Chitwood told The News Journal.


Speaking as a former cop, the words of the Chief of Police scare the crap out of me.

The attitude that the rule of law is of no concern when the actions of the violent perpetrator are seen as giving the victim his/her "just desserts" is a particularly dangerous and heinous one for a person who has sworn to uphold the rule of law.

Beating a suspect to get a confession? Well, I guess it would be OK with this same chief as long as it fit into his personal set of beliefs.

Shoot an unarmed suspect? "The guy was a rapist - he had it coming". (He may not say this out loud but given his response in the peeping Tom case - you can be sure his attitude would affect his investigation and judgement regarding his officers' conduct if such a thing were to occur.)

Wonder what his attitude about the rights of "women who ask for it" is?

Spare me the macho chest thumping poseur posturing posting I see on this board. Sounds like a high school locker room with a bunch of pimply faced teens trying to act tough.

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Old 18th January 2019, 03:32 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
In that case I revise my opinion. I had only skimmed the article and went from the OP's 'multiple broken bones', thinking arms and legs. A couple of punches is perfectly acceptable and every bush-based wanker should expect one.

Oh, I don't know about that. If a youth has no space at home and goes and finds his own bush off in the bushes somewhere miles from anywhere and anyone, then I think they should get a pass.

It's not the bush that's the problem
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Old 18th January 2019, 03:35 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Why is that? Is breaking faces an okay way to handle Peeping Toms? How many criminals are not entitled to due process?
This is my query.

Can someone please tell me the standard for doling out extra-judicial punishment without review?

I can understand what this man did. I can't condone it. There has to be a bright and shining line where vigilantism is concerned and this has crossed it.
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Old 18th January 2019, 03:36 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
The correct move would have been to beat the guys ass and let the daughter finish him off.

You might want to rephrase that.
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Old 18th January 2019, 03:50 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
I suppose if Mr Masturbator had walked in and shot Mr Black Dad dead in Mr Black Dad's own home, because Mr Masturbator was really sleepy and had forgotten where he lived, that would be all good.

Provided of course, that Mr Masturbator had been wearing a cop uniform while white.

But Mr Black Dad kicking Mr Masturbator's ass for jacking off outside Mr Black Dad's daughter's window is just wrong
Translation: "When the thread doesn't deliver what my biases demand I'll literally make up ******** and pretend that's what's been written, despite the fact everybody can see I'm lying."

HTH
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Old 18th January 2019, 03:52 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
You might want to rephrase that.
Or he might not, who knows what's going on in his mind?
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Old 18th January 2019, 05:47 AM   #100
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I hope the Peeping Tom doesn't turn out to be retarded or mentally ill because then the people so gleeful about his beating may feel remorseful.
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Old 18th January 2019, 05:49 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I hope the Peeping Tom doesn't turn out to be retarded or mentally ill because then the people so gleeful about his beating may feel remorseful.

I think that's a chance they're willing to take. One of the risks of vigilante justice is beating the crap out of an innocent man.

But let's not worry, people are mostly perfect in their examination of the facts and the conclusions they draw, so...
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Old 18th January 2019, 05:59 AM   #102
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I feel about this the same way I feel about Nazis getting punched. Good on the guy for punching the creep, but he should face the legal consequences.
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Old 18th January 2019, 06:29 AM   #103
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I haven't seen any evidence that the father did anything beyond what was necessary to restrain the pervert.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 18th January 2019, 06:35 AM   #104
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From a legal standpoint, voyeurism would be at best a misdemeanor. If the child saw him doing his “thing”, then you could add “exposing person” (exhibitionism) to that... Still a misdemeanor.
Both sexual paraphilia....

Certainly the football guy would have been legally justified in chasing the guy down and attempting to make a “citizens arrest”. If the fellow resisted, then an “appropriate” level of force may be employed.
In the initial post, it sounded like a severe beating, which would be felonious. “great bodily harm”.
Depending on what happened when football guy caught up with voyeur.....
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Old 18th January 2019, 06:51 AM   #105
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Cassidy was standing at a window, watching a 15 year old girl come out of the shower and get dressed, while masturbating.

The father, Beckham, chased him and tackled him.

When police arrived, Cassidy was fighting with Beckham, trying to get away.

Cassidy had a fractured cheek and eye socket, which are likely from taking a punch to the face.

He is charged with a second degree felony.

That can get you up to fifteen years and up to a $10K fine.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 18th January 2019, 08:09 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Cassidy was standing at a window, watching a 15 year old girl come out of the shower and get dressed, while masturbating.

The father, Beckham, chased him and tackled him.

When police arrived, Cassidy was fighting with Beckham, trying to get away.

Cassidy had a fractured cheek and eye socket, which are likely from taking a punch to the face.

He is charged with a second degree felony.

That can get you up to fifteen years and up to a $10K fine.
I have only read that Cassidy was charged with lewd and lacivious behavior in the presence of a minor under 16, which is a misdemeanor in
Florida. Beckham was not charged at all. You have seen differently?
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Old 18th January 2019, 08:45 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Cassidy was standing at a window, watching a 15 year old girl come out of the shower and get dressed, while masturbating.

The father, Beckham, chased him and tackled him.

When police arrived, Cassidy was fighting with Beckham, trying to get away.

Cassidy had a fractured cheek and eye socket, which are likely from taking a punch to the face.

He is charged with a second degree felony.

That can get you up to fifteen years and up to a $10K fine.
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I have only read that Cassidy was charged with lewd and lacivious behavior in the presence of a minor under 16, which is a misdemeanor in
Florida. Beckham was not charged at all. You have seen differently?
I'd like to see a source mostly because all the coverage is local news stations and what I read agrees with what Thermal posted. I also read that the wife called the cops when she heard a ruckus and came out and saw her husband holding the guy down - no mention of him still fighting to get away.
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Old 18th January 2019, 12:11 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by ABC 10 News from the opening post
According to a Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office probable cause affidavit, the girl's father caught Cassidy crouched in some bushes by the window with his hands in his pants.
That's a rather odd way for a man to masturbate. Crouched with both hands inside the pants. Beckham had probably never even imagined that method.
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Old 18th January 2019, 12:25 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I have only read that Cassidy was charged with lewd and lacivious behavior in the presence of a minor under 16, which is a misdemeanor in
Florida. Beckham was not charged at all. You have seen differently?
He is charged with 800.04 7A, which as far as I can tell is a second degree felony.

Quote:
in the presence of a victim who is less than 16 years of age, commits lewd or lascivious exhibition.
(b) An offender 18 years of age or older who commits a lewd or lascivious exhibition commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

Last edited by LTC8K6; 18th January 2019 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 18th January 2019, 12:28 PM   #110
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LEWD LASCV BEHAVIOR - EXHIBITION OFF LESS 18 YOA VICTIM LESS 16 YOA
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 18th January 2019, 12:31 PM   #111
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(7) LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS EXHIBITION.—
(a) A person who:
1. Intentionally masturbates;
2. Intentionally exposes the genitals in a lewd or lascivious manner; or
3. Intentionally commits any other sexual act that does not involve actual physical or sexual contact with the victim, including, but not limited to, sadomasochistic abuse, sexual bestiality, or the simulation of any act involving sexual activity in the presence of a victim who is less than 16 years of age, commits lewd or lascivious exhibition.
(b) An offender 18 years of age or older who commits a lewd or lascivious exhibition commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(c) An offender less than 18 years of age who commits a lewd or lascivious exhibition commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(8) EXCEPTION.—A mother’s breastfeeding of her baby does not under any circumstance constitute a violation of this section.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 18th January 2019, 12:33 PM   #112
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It's confusing, because the whole section applies to the presence of a minor, and the offender is over 18.

So it seems like b is the correct charge, but they do list a.
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Old 18th January 2019, 12:46 PM   #113
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The bond seems low.
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Old 18th January 2019, 12:52 PM   #114
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He wasn't charged with trespassing. Were the bushes on public property?
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Old 18th January 2019, 01:14 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You appear to be the only person to have picked up on the tongue-in-cheek-ness of that part of my post.
Thanks! Occasionally I get something right.



Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Apologies, didn't mean to disregard your opinion. Had a sidebar of passive-aggressive patty cake going with white guys falling over themselves to show how Woke they are.

I sympathize with the father protecting his daughter's modesty, or honor...whatever we want to call it. I can even sympathize with wanting to avenge her having been treated like a piece of meat. At the same time, we can't just run around privately breaking peoples' faces over non-violent misdemeanors, universally repulsive though they may be.

This reminds me of the punch-a-nazi argument, although many posters seem to find this OP retribution more acceptable. Kind of makes me wonder how we are defining acceptable cases to act extra judiciously.
I've always drawn the line at literal nazi's and their speech, however. That goes beyond the pale in the amount of damage it had caused in real life and the potential to cause similar damage in the future is what sets it apart from other speech issues.

Therefore, I support all suppression of nazis in any form whatsoever as long as it's objectively clear what the person is saying and doing, unlike what has happened here.



Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Behold; the "Enlightened Centrist".

Meanwhile, out here in the real world, acting like an ass has actual consequences. Which is why nazis and pervs get beat up, and rightfully so.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
And if you're wrong? It seems in your mind and in the mind of others that the father is absolutely right in his violence and there is no space for even a shred of concern that what the father saw was mistaken or whatever.

The article said that the suspect had his hands down his pants. If true, then there was no genital exposure and there could easily be some misunderstanding of where his hands were... such as in his pockets. The idea that he was literally masturbating is central to the issue and has, so far, no actual evidence as I said earlier.



Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post

"Dad was acting like a dad. I don’t see anything we should charge the dad with,” Daytona Beach police Chief Mike Chitwood told The News Journal.


Speaking as a former cop, the words of the Chief of Police scare the crap out of me.

The attitude that the rule of law is of no concern when the actions of the violent perpetrator are seen as giving the victim his/her "just desserts" is a particularly dangerous and heinous one for a person who has sworn to uphold the rule of law.

Beating a suspect to get a confession? Well, I guess it would be OK with this same chief as long as it fit into his personal set of beliefs.

Shoot an unarmed suspect? "The guy was a rapist - he had it coming". (He may not say this out loud but given his response in the peeping Tom case - you can be sure his attitude would affect his investigation and judgement regarding his officers' conduct if such a thing were to occur.)

Wonder what his attitude about the rights of "women who ask for it" is?

Spare me the macho chest thumping poseur posturing posting I see on this board. Sounds like a high school locker room with a bunch of pimply faced teens trying to act tough.

True freedom requires the rule of law and justice, and a judicial system in which the rights of some are not secured by the denial of rights to others.
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This needs to be said every other post it seems.

The problem I find is that the ones who espouse this sort of "good on ya" vigilantism never for a moment could think that they themselves could be mistaken for a pervvy criminal and get a beat down which puts them in the hospital, never mind having people cheer and cops throw the book at them.



Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I haven't seen any evidence that the father did anything beyond what was necessary to restrain the pervert.
And I haven't seen any evidence that the father was correct in his assumption prompting the violence in the first place.



Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
From a legal standpoint, voyeurism would be at best a misdemeanor. If the child saw him doing his “thing”, then you could add “exposing person” (exhibitionism) to that... Still a misdemeanor.
Both sexual paraphilia....

Certainly the football guy would have been legally justified in chasing the guy down and attempting to make a “citizens arrest”. If the fellow resisted, then an “appropriate” level of force may be employed.
In the initial post, it sounded like a severe beating, which would be felonious. “great bodily harm”.
Depending on what happened when football guy caught up with voyeur.....
Yes, it probably should at most be charged as some sort of voyeurism but, naturally, they have to over-charge as per usual in our horrible criminal justice system; especially since by the felony charge in this instance, there is no evidence of the central part of the crime... "...in the presence of the victim..." as one can easily argue that they were not in the same room, the lighting would have been such that the girl could not see out of the window and so on.

So, again as usual, they took a slam-dunk misdemeanor case and are trying to push for a felony that frankly isn't viable legally IMO.
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Old 18th January 2019, 01:30 PM   #116
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The girl says she saw him looking in her window but doesn't say she saw him masturbating. He says he wasn't looking in her window and that his car was broken down and he was waiting for it to cool off. I haven't seen information about if the car was overheating or if that was a lie.
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Old 18th January 2019, 01:39 PM   #117
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What kind of pants allow a man to put both hands inside and masturbate? They must be very loose because how do you have both hands and an erection going on inside there all at once?

Maybe the guy wasn't looking at her and was instead pissing in a bush while waiting for his car engine to cool.
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Old 18th January 2019, 01:53 PM   #118
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All this Kremlinology from third hand sources. How very neo-skeptical.
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Old 18th January 2019, 02:31 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The girl says she saw him looking in her window but doesn't say she saw him masturbating. He says he wasn't looking in her window and that his car was broken down and he was waiting for it to cool off. I haven't seen information about if the car was overheating or if that was a lie.
The perp was unwilling to show the police his car...

I'm betting the guy has a record back in Ohio.
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Old 18th January 2019, 02:35 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What kind of pants allow a man to put both hands inside and masturbate? They must be very loose because how do you have both hands and an erection going on inside there all at once?

Maybe the guy wasn't looking at her and was instead pissing in a bush while waiting for his car engine to cool.
The reports I read said his pants were partly down and he was standing up and masturbating.

He squatted to avoid being seen by the girl.

Why am I discussing this ridiculous semi-defense of a creep?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

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