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Old 18th January 2019, 02:37 PM   #121
LTC8K6
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"According to his arrest report, Cassidy told deputies he's a transient from Ohio. A background check shows previous arrests for burglary, theft, attempted receiving of stolen property, and criminal trespass."
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Old 18th January 2019, 02:45 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Why am I discussing this ridiculous semi-defense of a creep?
It's just a preview of his public defender at the trial.
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Old 18th January 2019, 02:47 PM   #123
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A crazy homeless transient criminal bum who has no access to porn.
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Old 18th January 2019, 02:48 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What kind of pants allow a man to put both hands inside and masturbate? They must be very loose because how do you have both hands and an erection going on inside there all at once?
If you don't know about sweatpants, you may not be sufficiently informed about Earthling society to make any useful contribution to a debate about human behavior and customs.

Last edited by theprestige; 18th January 2019 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 18th January 2019, 02:51 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
The article said that the suspect had his hands down his pants. If true, then there was no genital exposure and there could easily be some misunderstanding of where his hands were... such as in his pockets. The idea that he was literally masturbating is central to the issue and has, so far, no actual evidence as I said earlier.
For similar reasons, there's no actual evidence for instance that this man is masturbating:

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I AGREE


But...yeah he is. There's a reason people simply sitting or standing around with their hands in their pockets, in their thousands, aren't getting reported to police for masturbating.
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Old 18th January 2019, 02:52 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If you don't know about sweatpants
Are sweatpants very loose? Because I mentioned very loose. I'm not very familiar with Earth clothes as you say.

Anyway we now learn his pants were down.
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Old 18th January 2019, 03:15 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I wonder what the social commentary would be if the races were reversed. Some or many might consider it "excessive force fueled by racism" if a white father beat the crap out of a black guy for the same thing.
That's one thing I don't wonder about, and I'm thankful AF that it's not an issue in this thread.
Indeed. Sick revenge fantasies, no. Chasing and beating up in hot blood someone who had acted as a threat to one's children - understandable if not entirely justified.
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Old 18th January 2019, 07:15 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
For similar reasons, there's no actual evidence for instance that this man is masturbating:

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I AGREE


But...yeah he is.
The father stood around for several minutes watching the accused peeping and stroking it, did he?

Or perhaps we have video of the guy doing it?

I take it from your posts that you're perfectly satisfied that, despite the fact that eye witnesses are horribly unreliable (especially in a split-second in the dark situation), that this guy is definitely guilty of not only peeping/spying but also masturbating and should be convicted of a felony?
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Old 18th January 2019, 07:17 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Indeed. Sick revenge fantasies, no. Chasing and beating up in hot blood someone who had acted as a threat to one's children - understandable if not entirely justified.
A threat now? Did the accused have a knife or gun or weapon on him? Did he admit to planning an assault or rape that hasn't been widely released yet?

What's your evidence that there was a threat that justifies being beaten?
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Old 18th January 2019, 08:41 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
A threat now? Did the accused have a knife or gun or weapon on him? Did he admit to planning an assault or rape that hasn't been widely released yet?

What's your evidence that there was a threat that justifies being beaten?
I won't assume to speak for everyone, but I do believe some scumbag jerking it outside his kid's window is an immediate threat and Mr. Beckham's actions were within reason.

Posted up thread and needs to be repeated:

Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
I'm inclined to praise the father for exhibiting such restraint.
Agreed. This could've gone much, much worse for Cassidy.
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Old 18th January 2019, 08:53 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
I won't assume to speak for everyone, but I do believe some scumbag jerking it outside his kid's window is an immediate threat and Mr. Beckham's actions were within reason.

Posted up thread and needs to be repeated:



Agreed. This could've gone much, much worse for Cassidy.
Huh?! Why? Something going to go off in his hand?
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Old 18th January 2019, 09:00 PM   #132
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Quote:
is an immediate threat
And now the judge is willing to let this guy go back into the world for only $150. That's the 10% of the $1500 bond.
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Old 18th January 2019, 10:29 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
The father stood around for several minutes watching the accused peeping and stroking it, did he?
You think it takes several minutes to discern those particular motions?

Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
I take it from your posts that you're perfectly satisfied that, despite the fact that eye witnesses are horribly unreliable (especially in a split-second in the dark situation), that this guy is definitely guilty of not only peeping/spying but also masturbating and should be convicted of a felony?
No; I am satisfied that the charge is appropriate for the allegation, and that the lack of charges against the father for his reaction is acceptable assuming he is being truthful about what he saw.

I'm not perfectly satisfied that the suspect is "definitely guilty"; that will have to be decided by a jury. That's not to say that I think it's wrong for people in a forum like this one to make a judgment about guilt if they are convinced one way or the other by publicly-available evidence - I've done that. But I haven't seen enough evidence that I'm personally willing to judge in this case.
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Old 18th January 2019, 11:21 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Forget the fighting. If holding him down doesn't work then just let him run, but stay within sight. The cops will take care of everything quickly.

The punching may have been emotional and unnecessary for the guy to have been quickly dealt with by the law.
Wait, a black guy chasing after a white guy? If the cops turned up, they would simply shoot the black guy.

No, assuming the homeowner used reasonable force and didn't carry on beating the peeping tom after he was unconscious then I think he did the right thing.
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:10 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post

Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Indeed. Sick revenge fantasies, no. Chasing and beating up in hot blood someone who had acted as a threat to one's children - understandable if not entirely justified.
A threat now? Did the accused have a knife or gun or weapon on him? Did he admit to planning an assault or rape that hasn't been widely released yet?

What's your evidence that there was a threat that justifies being beaten?

If someone sees a creep checking out their kid's bedroom whilst pleasuring themselves, then yes I think most people would consider that a threat.

If you look at the highlighted, I said that mightn't have been entirely justified. However, if it was fighting to restrain the pervert, it might have been.
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:15 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The reports I read said his pants were partly down and he was standing up and masturbating.

He squatted to avoid being seen by the girl.

Why am I discussing this ridiculous semi-defense of a creep?

Don't you have to examine his defence before you can dismiss it and label him a creep?
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:23 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Don't you have to examine his defence before you can dismiss it and label him a creep?
Why was he outside her window?
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:26 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Don't you have to examine his defence before you can dismiss it and label him a creep?
As we are not going to be on the jury trying him, we can base it on the known evidence.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Why was he outside her window?
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:30 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Why was he outside her window?

I'm not querying conclusion, only method.

In order to come to the conclusion that this guy is a creep, it is necessary to examine the circumstances and listen to the blokes excuse - it might be an appropriate one.

As it turns out, it wasn't, but that determination can't be made until the excuse has been heard and considered.
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:33 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
As we are not going to be on the jury trying him, we can base it on the known evidence.
Yup, and part of that evidence is the excuse, which turns out to be crap. But you don't know that until after you've heard it.

I don't think it's reasonable to not consider the excuse at all and dismiss it in advance of hearing it.
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:37 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I'm not querying conclusion, only method.

In order to come to the conclusion that this guy is a creep, it is necessary to examine the circumstances and listen to the blokes excuse - it might be an appropriate one.

As it turns out, it wasn't, but that determination can't be made until the excuse has been heard and considered.
So just out of interest.

In what way is spying on your teen daughter naked and masturbating while doing it different to just spying on her naked?

And why would you think a dad would be Mr "well stop that right now and good day to you!" With either?
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:38 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
So just out of interest.

In what way is spying on your teen daughter naked and masturbating while doing it different to just spying on her naked?
I don't know.

How do you know his excuse is crap if you haven't actually considered it?


Quote:
And why would you think a dad would be Mr "well stop that right now and good day to you!" With either?
Not sure what this means or how it relates to anything I've said.
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:44 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I don't know.

How do you know his excuse is crap if you haven't actually considered it?




Not sure what this means or how it relates to anything I've said.
Just curious to know what reaction you expect from a bloke seeing a guy spying into his teen daughters bedroom after she has had a shower.

Wank or no wank
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:49 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Just curious to know what reaction you expect from bloke seeing a guy spying into his teen daughters bedroom after she has had a shower.

Wank or no wank

I'm not talking about his reaction. Where did I talk about his reaction?


Let me try this:

What do you think of the fellow's excuse?
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:55 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I'm not talking about his reaction. Where did I talk about his reaction?


Let me try this:

What do you think of the fellow's excuse?
"Excuse"


I haven't seen one that resembles credibility
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:57 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
"Excuse"


I haven't seen one that resembles credibility

But you have seen one, right? And it's a pile of fetid dingoes kidneys, right?
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Old 19th January 2019, 03:02 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
But you have seen one, right? And it's a pile of fetid dingoes kidneys, right?
Perhaps you could grace the forum with what you think is the most plausible.
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Old 19th January 2019, 03:07 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Perhaps you could grace the forum with what you think is the most plausible.
No, because that's not my point.

I think you've just arrived at my point and decided to change the subject.

I'll leave it at that I think. Have a nice day.
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Old 19th January 2019, 03:17 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Just curious to know what reaction you expect from a bloke seeing a guy spying into his teen daughters bedroom after she has had a shower.

Wank or no wank
OK, are we talking about Donald Trump here?*





*because this thread totally needs to go there ...
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Old 19th January 2019, 03:26 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
No, because that's not my point.

I think you've just arrived at my point and decided to change the subject.

I'll leave it at that I think. Have a nice day.
Or you could just say what your point is
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Old 19th January 2019, 03:28 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Or you could just say what your point is
Just for you, just this one time, cos your persistence is cute, I'll say it again.

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
In order to come to the conclusion that this guy is a creep, it is necessary to examine the circumstances and listen to the blokes excuse - it might be an appropriate one.
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Old 19th January 2019, 03:32 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
OK, are we talking about Donald Trump here?*





*because this thread totally needs to go there ...
I had been thinking along similar lines to you. This is reported behaviour that even the current POTUS might have drawn the line at
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Old 19th January 2019, 05:35 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Or you could just say what your point is
I think his point is that vigilante justice doesn't allow us to take into account the fact that sometimes our first impression of guilt is wrong. At the very least those implicated should have the chance to present their case before facing violent repercussions.

I don't really know what I think. I don't have kids, but I do have some nieces and if I were present in this sort of situation with them I'd probably become violent too, though I think I'd limit myself to choking the guy unconscious. However, if I injured the guy, would I be right to do so and should the police simply let me go? I don't really know my answer.

I have to admit I do have some sympathy for the guy. It seems he's homeless. I can't imagine the life people in that situation are living, and judging the actions of people who are going through that sort of life is just something I have a hard time with.

I will say that I've chased off guys masturbating in the bushes before. When I was in India my friends and I would go to the pool pretty often and several times we caught some guy (different guys on different occasions) masturbating in the bushes while watching the girls in bikinis. In that situation I just yelled at the guys and they left.
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Old 19th January 2019, 05:49 AM   #154
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I have zero problem with roughing up misbehaving punks caught in the act. [Disclaimer: Been there on the "giving" side.] I would have taken issue only if the perp had suffered lasting harm or been killed. Getting punched a bit isn't really a nasty beating. I love the "fell down while trying to escape" part.

When you go cruising for a bruising and get one, well, then. Given the state is Florida, this is a surprisingly happy ending all around.
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Old 19th January 2019, 06:58 AM   #155
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Back when I started in police work, in the later 60s, the common attitude amongst the coppers I knew was that these sorts of minor sex-crimes would “escalate”.

That the voyeur or the exhibitionist would eventually move on to sexual assault and rape. It was often the case that if such an individual were caught in the act, the officers would administer “street justice” as often victims were unwilling to prosecute.... Or in the case of the voyeur, unaware of the activity.

We now know that this is rarely, if ever the case. These people are paraphiliacs. They have the paraphilia of voyeurism, or exhibitionism, and they engage in those practices to the exclusion of others.
We’ve dealt with serial offenders here at the university for years. These people are under powerful psychological compulsions and are often arrested numerous times with no effect on their behavior.
In fact, I’m not aware of any treatment that has any effect on such people. It’s an essential part of their makeup.
I’ve dealt with several who’s lives had been ruined by thier activities... Labeled “sex offenders”, unable to find places to live, unable to find decent employment. Yet they continue.
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Old 19th January 2019, 08:23 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What kind of pants allow a man to put both hands inside and masturbate?
Prefix that with Alexa and you might get your answer.
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Old 19th January 2019, 10:55 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
You think it takes several minutes to discern those particular motions?
Not necessarily, but I think comparing "like" for "like" is the best thing to do; though I'm now finding myself in agreement with theprestige again about his dislike/disdain for these kinds of examples or parallels.

Just as in your response, it seems that it just becomes easy to avoid answering questions by focusing on the irrelevant details rather than applying some good-faith efforts.



Quote:
No; I am satisfied that the charge is appropriate for the allegation, and that the lack of charges against the father for his reaction is acceptable assuming he is being truthful about what he saw.
Do you mean "assuming he is accurate in reporting what he thought he saw?"



Quote:
I'm not perfectly satisfied that the suspect is "definitely guilty"; that will have to be decided by a jury. That's not to say that I think it's wrong for people in a forum like this one to make a judgment about guilt if they are convinced one way or the other by publicly-available evidence - I've done that. But I haven't seen enough evidence that I'm personally willing to judge in this case.
Fair enough.



Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
If someone sees a creep checking out their kid's bedroom whilst pleasuring themselves, then yes I think most people would consider that a threat.
That surely doesn't mean that it's right or accurate; I mean, c'mon. How many times have we all used the popularity fallacy card enough to know not to use it?


Quote:
If you look at the highlighted, I said that mightn't have been entirely justified. However, if it was fighting to restrain the pervert, it might have been.
Fair enough.



Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Yup, and part of that evidence is the excuse, which turns out to be crap. But you don't know that until after you've heard it.

I don't think it's reasonable to not consider the excuse at all and dismiss it in advance of hearing it.
This is my point as well. I point out several times that eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable and yet how easily that is dismissed when the socially acceptable goal of vigilantism, rugged individuals solving problems singlehandedly, and how parents, especially fathers, should behave. The fact this guy is rewarded for being violent... well, I guess that's no surprise at all, seeing as he's a famous football player.



Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
OK, are we talking about Donald Trump here?*
*because this thread totally needs to go there ...
Sure, why not? I think we all basically take our turn at injecting that orange goo into our synapses once in a while.



Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
I think his point is that vigilante justice doesn't allow us to take into account the fact that sometimes our first impression of guilt is wrong. At the very least those implicated should have the chance to present their case before facing violent repercussions.

I don't really know what I think. I don't have kids, but I do have some nieces and if I were present in this sort of situation with them I'd probably become violent too, though I think I'd limit myself to choking the guy unconscious. However, if I injured the guy, would I be right to do so and should the police simply let me go? I don't really know my answer.

I have to admit I do have some sympathy for the guy. It seems he's homeless. I can't imagine the life people in that situation are living, and judging the actions of people who are going through that sort of life is just something I have a hard time with.

I will say that I've chased off guys masturbating in the bushes before. When I was in India my friends and I would go to the pool pretty often and several times we caught some guy (different guys on different occasions) masturbating in the bushes while watching the girls in bikinis. In that situation I just yelled at the guys and they left.
Thank you, I think this is a great summation of my stance in this instance. But I do have a daughter myself -- she's 22 and I'm so very proud of her and yes I also know full well there are men out there (pervs and non-pervs alike) who have acted and who will act in inappropriate ways towards her regardless of my presence or not.

I'm not a pacifist in the usual sense, I think, but I certainly do think that there is way too much violence especially casual violence in the world and I know we can all do better. Maybe even just one incident at a time...



Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
I have zero problem with roughing up misbehaving punks caught in the act. [Disclaimer: Been there on the "giving" side.] I would have taken issue only if the perp had suffered lasting harm or been killed. Getting punched a bit isn't really a nasty beating. I love the "fell down while trying to escape" part.
And if you happen to "been there" on the "mistaken identity" side? I bet you'd be all, 'hey mistakes happen fellas, no worries! Your hearts were all in the right place and all.' and happily pay your hospital bills without another thought about it, right?

I mean, that's really what y'all are advocating. Can't remember which thread it is (a recent one) where the guy is quoted as saying, "I never knew a [black man] who was lynched that didn't deserve it."

I see that the very same thought-processes are still alive and well in the 21st century.

So in this case, the prosecution is gonna stretch the meaning of "...in the presence of [the victim]..." in order to charge normally a misdemeanor peeping case with a 'felony masturbating in the presence of' case I'm sure to send the right signal (i.e., virtue signal) that they are all fine, upstanding citizens and fathers themselves. Or something.

In other words, I'm looking at the quiet, insidious damage being done in order to punish a person who has violated some social norms and not much else and I think it's worthwhile pointing this bull **** when I see it.
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:50 PM   #158
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Back when I started in police work, in the later 60s, the common attitude amongst the coppers I knew was that these sorts of minor sex-crimes would “escalate”.

That the voyeur or the exhibitionist would eventually move on to sexual assault and rape. It was often the case that if such an individual were caught in the act, the officers would administer “street justice” as often victims were unwilling to prosecute.... Or in the case of the voyeur, unaware of the activity.

We now know that this is rarely, if ever the case. These people are paraphiliacs. They have the paraphilia of voyeurism, or exhibitionism, and they engage in those practices to the exclusion of others.
We’ve dealt with serial offenders here at the university for years. These people are under powerful psychological compulsions and are often arrested numerous times with no effect on their behavior.
In fact, I’m not aware of any treatment that has any effect on such people. It’s an essential part of their makeup.
I’ve dealt with several who’s lives had been ruined by thier activities... Labeled “sex offenders”, unable to find places to live, unable to find decent employment. Yet they continue.
Well, I think that if they continue to masturbate in front of teenage girl's windows, they will continue to get punched in the beezer by teenage girl's fathers.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 19th January 2019, 02:52 PM   #159
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The law has mistaken identity covered already. Beckham would be in all sorts of civil and legal trouble if Cassidy is found innocent.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 19th January 2019, 03:34 PM   #160
Checkmite
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Not necessarily, but I think comparing "like" for "like" is the best thing to do; though I'm now finding myself in agreement with theprestige again about his dislike/disdain for these kinds of examples or parallels.

Just as in your response, it seems that it just becomes easy to avoid answering questions by focusing on the irrelevant details rather than applying some good-faith efforts.
Your response to my example, was not a good-faith effort. I posted a video of a man whom it can be clearly and quite instantly discerned is masturbating, despite the fact that his hand and his genitals are not directly visible. Your reply was "The father stood around for several minutes watching the accused peeping and stroking it, did he?", which is nonsensical and dishonest given that the very video I linked as an example isn't even "several minutes" long in its entirety, let alone that you only have to watch a few seconds of it at most to see what's going on.

The video wasn't an instance of "analogy" or "parallel". The person in it is performing exactly the actions that the father in the present case under discussion contends the suspect was committing when he saw them. And this isn't an "irrelevant detail"; I posted the video as a direct response to your suggestion that the fact the man's hands were in his pants meant that the father would not have been able to reliably determine whether the man was fondling himself (i.e., "might've had his hands in his pockets") - an allegation which in the same post you call "central to the issue". The video has a point: with this particular activity, you do not need to see hands on body parts to know what's going on under the fabric. You CAN reliably determine with high confidence that a person in that set of circumstances is engaging in that activity.
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