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Old 22nd January 2019, 01:40 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
If the beating was shown to be well beyond what was required to apprehend the fellow (and, at this stage, it seems that it actually wasn't, I think.), then that's felony murder, isn't it?
I honestly don't know, I was just thinking about this incident and wondered if folk would think any different if the accused peeping Tom was killed, which is a quite possible outcome if his eye socket had been fractured.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 01:44 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, but I'm talking about on the spot. The police decided Beckham's beat down was fine with them. That's the part I'm a little uneasy with. As far as the cops knew, Beckham could've been lying through his teeth and skipped town if things got ugly (excuse the little hyperbole). The police arrested Casdidy based on the report of the guy who was doing the only observable damage to another person
When the police arrived Cassidy fled, Beckham stayed to talk to them. That may have affected their determination of which was the bad actor in the situation.

Were I being beaten for no reason (actually I have been, did not enjoy the experience), I would flee toward the police, not away from them.

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Old 22nd January 2019, 01:51 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
When the police arrived Cassidy fled, Beckham stayed to talk to them. That may have affected their determination of which was the bad actor in the situation.
That's reasonable. Someone terrified with a fractured face, or even just a guy with unrelated warrants out for him might also foolishly run, too. The police were still taking the guy doing the beating at his word, though. Much like Zimmerman being initially arrested, I would expect anyone to have to give more than an assurance that they were acting within the bounds of law in a situation like this.

Eta: your edit: experience has taught me to run away from police
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:07 PM   #244
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Cassidy was wondering when his white privilege would kick in so that he could just walk away instead of run.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:07 PM   #245
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The police only know what they saw, as far as the injuries to Cassidy.

They saw two people fighting.

They did not see one man beating up another man.

Beckham was almost certainly punched by Cassidy as well.

They saw one of the combatants defer to the police, and the other one try to escape.

They listened to two stories and found one believable and one ridiculous.

After all of that Cassidy likely gets little if any legal punishment anyway, and goes on to do it again.

Hopefully for him, the next father doesn't have a shotgun handy at the time he gets off outside a little girl's window.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:09 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
That's reasonable. Someone terrified with a fractured face, or even just a guy with unrelated warrants out for him might also foolishly run, too. The police were still taking the guy doing the beating at his word, though. Much like Zimmerman being initially arrested, I would expect anyone to have to give more than an assurance that they were acting within the bounds of law in a situation like this.

Eta: your edit: experience has taught me to run away from police
Bull...the police judged the evidence that was before them.

They didn't just take Beckham at his word.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:27 PM   #247
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https://big.assets.huffingtonpost.co...c3bbbdb5e0.pdf

There is the affidavit, if anyone wants to read it.

Cassidy does not run away until the situation has calmed down a bit and the police are asking questions.

They didn't even arrest Cassidy at the scene.

They arrested him much later at the hospital, after reading him his rights.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:31 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
After all of that Cassidy likely gets little if any legal punishment anyway, and goes on to do it again.

Hopefully for him, the next father doesn't have a shotgun handy at the time he gets off outside a little girl's window.
Hopefully Cassidy doesn't bring a gun to his next jerkoff session.

Not necessarily to shoot anyone but instead to prevent being apprehended and punched.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:36 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Hopefully Cassidy doesn't bring a gun to his next jerkoff session.

Not necessarily to shoot anyone but instead to prevent being apprehended and punched.
He's just a harmless mild sex pervert though, right?

They don't need or use guns.

They don't escalate.

They just watch your daughter through the window and try to get a shot off.

Besides, it's hard to hold two guns at once, and then with those sweatpants they have to wear...
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:41 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
He's just a harmless mild sex pervert though, right?

They don't need or use guns.

They don't escalate.

They just watch your daughter through the window and try to get a shot off.

Besides, it's hard to hold two guns at once, and then with those sweatpants they have to wear...
He's got a colorful criminal record and then he goes and does this too. Put him in an insane asylum. We had those back when America was great.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 03:42 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Out of curiosity, suppose when the orbit was fractured a bone fragment penetrated the brain and either killed him or resulted in severe brain damage, would that change your mind as to whether the level of force was OK or not?
This is a little confusing to me, because I don't think that's a legitimate physical possibility with the amount of force Beckham used, as shown by the kind of injury Cassidy sustained. If Beckham had truly beaten him, with enough force in the right place to Cassidy's face to cause actual bone fragmentation and to drive those fragments into Cassidy's brain, I think there would be some very apparent and drastic rearrangement of the soft tissue of Cassidy's face. The kind of "very apparent" as in, I could probably look at a photo of Cassidy's deformed head and say immediately that too much force was used, without even having to hear what the x-rays showed.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 03:48 PM   #252
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For those who are bleating about extra-judicial punishment, and crying for the poor helpless pervert, keep in mind that this was Florida. Beckham was within his legal rights to shoot Cassidy dead right on the spot. Cassidy could have been reaching into his pants for a weapon.....yes, I know, he was, but.....
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Old 22nd January 2019, 03:55 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Citizens arrest carries the requirement that you notify the suspect that you are doing so and he understands that. Beckham did not claim to do so. He pretty brazenly claimed to be teaching him a lesson (had a good conversation, he won't be doing this on this side of town again, etc). This is a couple steps to the side of self-defense or citizen's arrest. This was unapologetic vigilantism.
Beckham's playful self-aggrandizement to the local news crew a day after the fact isn't illustrative of his mindset during the incident.

In this case, we have better evidence: the police report, which cites a third, uninvolved party who reported that Beckham had yelled out for someone to "call 911" as he was grappling with Cassidy. That is a much better indicator of his attitude at the time. He wanted the police to be there, as soon as possible. That is like the opposite of vigilantism, by definition.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 04:02 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
He's just a harmless mild sex pervert though, right?

They don't need or use guns.

They don't escalate.

They just watch your daughter through the window and try to get a shot off.

Besides, it's hard to hold two guns at once, and then with those sweatpants they have to wear...

While most perverts like Cassidy don't escalate beyond doing things like he did here, it is well known in Law enforcement that serial rapists and serial murderers all escalated from the kinds of things done by Cassidy.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:06 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
While not advocating for extra-judicial beatings, I'm going to write this one off as within the allowances of good faith error on the part of the protective father.

I am of the opinion, purely from my own moral reasoning and nothing to do with legal precedent, that some leeway ought to be extended to those finding themselves in physical confrontations not of their own making. I am sympathetic and willing to be generous for someone minding their own business and suddenly finding themselves in high stress physical altercation. This guy didn't create this situation and, if in the heat of the moment, happens to use more force than is really necessary, I'm willing to not really care about it. I'm not going to Monday morning quarterback a victim protecting themselves unless it is truly egregious.

Exactly how much leeway is a matter of discretion and context. A couple good cracks to the face to apprehend a fleeing, resisting sexual prowler seems acceptable.

The courts don't exist to make judgement on every possible criminal matter. Law enforcement discretion and judicial discretion are important qualities. Trying to decide if the first or second or third punch was one too many seems like small potatoes. Somewhere out there someone is jay walking, but I'm not going to get animated about this injustice. Such is life.
Thanks, yeah I think that's a good way to look at it.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:32 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
While most perverts like Cassidy don't escalate beyond doing things like he did here, it is well known in Law enforcement that serial rapists and serial murderers all escalated from the kinds of things done by Cassidy.
I was actually alluding to this post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=155
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:38 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Beckham's playful self-aggrandizement to the local news crew a day after the fact isn't illustrative of his mindset during the incident.

In this case, we have better evidence: the police report, which cites a third, uninvolved party who reported that Beckham had yelled out for someone to "call 911" as he was grappling with Cassidy. That is a much better indicator of his attitude at the time. He wanted the police to be there, as soon as possible. That is like the opposite of vigilantism, by definition.
Dude...seriously.

Beckham was working the guy over in public view. Of course he would want to get on the right side of the law if people could see him. Especially if he knew he had already gone over the line. That's the obscure tactic known as 'covering your ass'.

Yes, he stopped the 'conversation' when the police arrived. What else in god's name would you expect him to do? It seems he continued the 'conversation' right up to the point where he couldn't justify it any longer.

Cassidy seems to be a scrawny transient, possibly with mental disabilities. Beckham is a powerfully built athlete with experience in catching and dropping people who are running. I can't see how TB would have had any trouble restraining Cassidy without breaking his face, should he have chosen.

This is not analogous to making a citizen's arrest on a jaywalker. This was privatized assault and battery against an alleged misdemeanor offender. If it turns out that Cassidy is in fact mentally disabled, will that change your view on what people can do to him?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:43 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If it turns out that Cassidy is in fact mentally disabled, will that change your view on what people can do to him?

Isn't the act he was indulged in an indication that he's mentally disabled?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:50 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
For those who are bleating about extra-judicial punishment, and crying for the poor helpless pervert, keep in mind that this was Florida. Beckham was within his legal rights to shoot Cassidy dead right on the spot. Cassidy could have been reaching into his pants for a weapon.....yes, I know, he was, but.....
I doubt that seriously. Being outside, in the common area of an apartment complex parking lot, and being non-violent...what would have been the legal grounds for shooting him dead with impunity, as you say?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:56 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Isn't the act he was indulged in an indication that he's mentally disabled?
Well, he's got problems for sure. Being a transient with a criminal history makes me think it may be more severe than a peeping fetish, revolting though that is as a standalone.

If it turns out he has bigger problems, as I think it will, I wonder how our he-man posters will feel about roughing up a man suffering from mental illness. Still okay with them, it would seem, as they think 'it was only one eye' (god, I love that). Not such a big deal to break the bones of a guy with mental illness. It's like jaywalking. Right, guys? Right?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:59 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I doubt that seriously. Being outside, in the common area of an apartment complex parking lot, and being non-violent...what would have been the legal grounds for shooting him dead with impunity, as you say?
We weren't there. We didn't see what the people who were there saw.

I can't see any evidence that the police officers did not practice due diligence before deciding what to do in this case.

And once again, Cassidy has not lost the ability to contest the charges he faces, or to press charges against Beckham, or to sue Beckham.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 07:08 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Isn't the act he was indulged in an indication that he's mentally disabled?
A righteous father and a righteous police force are not to show mercy for the mentally disabled. They are to be treated as if they are perfectly sane even if the father or police believe that they are not sane.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 07:16 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
We weren't there. We didn't see what the people who were there saw.

I can't see any evidence that the police officers did not practice due diligence before deciding what to do in this case.

And once again, Cassidy has not lost the ability to contest the charges he faces, or to press charges against Beckham, or to sue Beckham.
All true. Like 99% of threads, we do not know enough about the specifics to make a call one way or the other. It's the generality raised that is interesting, I think. I have been in positions where I looked like I was committing a crime, when I wasn't. Wouldn't be too happy about someone shooting me or fracturing my face over a misunderstanding.

Cassidy can of course press charges, assuming he has the mental and financial wherewithal to do so. I think he could actually (ahem) get off on the charges he is accused of, as the daughter didn't actually see anything but his face peeking in from between blinds (they are pressing the wrong charge, IMO). The misdemeanor voyeur charge would more likely stick, but puts Beckham in a worse legal position. Charging the felony gives Beckham some impunity.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 07:55 AM   #264
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The charge is apparently actually for masturbating in public in the presence of a minor.

So I would guess that there is some evidence that he was actually masturbating.

The paperwork lists the charge as 7A1, which is basically jerking off in public in front of a minor.

There is more than one witness on the paperwork as well.

Presumably the daughter is a witness?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 08:07 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Well, he's got problems for sure. Being a transient with a criminal history makes me think it may be more severe than a peeping fetish, revolting though that is as a standalone.

If it turns out he has bigger problems, as I think it will, I wonder how our he-man posters will feel about roughing up a man suffering from mental illness. Still okay with them, it would seem, as they think 'it was only one eye' (god, I love that). Not such a big deal to break the bones of a guy with mental illness. It's like jaywalking. Right, guys? Right?
There are levels of mental illness. The fact he fled demonstrates he knows right from wrong. You can't expect someone to conduct an impromptu psychiatric assessment of a person before taking action. Maybe the guy who has broken into your house and is standing in the sitting room with a knife is in the grip of a schizophrenic episode, or maybe he's just a **** who needs to be taken down with maximum force.

As I say, initially I thought the father had broken this guy's arms and legs or something, but seeing what he did actually do I fully support him and his actions.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 08:13 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The charge is apparently actually for masturbating in public in the presence of a minor.

So I would guess that there is some evidence that he was actually masturbating.

The paperwork lists the charge as 7A1, which is basically jerking off in public in front of a minor.

There is more than one witness on the paperwork as well.

Presumably the daughter is a witness?
IIRC, the daughter said she only saw Cassidy's face, which makes sense given the height of the window and that he was evidently peeking through a inch or less gap between two sets of blinds. That's why I think 'in the presence of a minor' will fail in court. It may be argued that she was not in the visual presence of the act, for which the intent of the law seems to provide penalty.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 08:32 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
There are levels of mental illness. The fact he fled demonstrates he knows right from wrong.
Disagreed. Even a dog will flee from a painful beating, which he sure seemed to have received. I would think that trying to flee from cops and the athlete who just ran you down would indicate a lack of rational thought, if anything. Cassidy might also, if a mentally ill transient, be deathly afraid of cops.

Quote:
You can't expect someone to conduct an impromptu psychiatric assessment of a person before taking action. Maybe the guy who has broken into your house and is standing in the sitting room with a knife is in the grip of a schizophrenic episode, or maybe he's just a **** who needs to be taken down with maximum force.
Agreed. Self-defense requires putting yourself and others above the safety of the attacker. But there was not an imminent threat to anyone's safety here. Except for the sanitary concerns, should Cassidy have been (ahem) finishing up.

Quote:
As I say, initially I thought the father had broken this guy's arms and legs or something, but seeing what he did actually do I fully support him and his actions.
Fractured skull bones are no joke. IMO, the problem here is the mentality that Beckham shows. In the States, breaking people's faces is normally only justified in self-defense. Cassidy was no attacker; he was a sad little pervert who ran away when caught. Privately breaking bones, even if 'it was only one eye', is problematic. Beckham is a powerful man. This was elective punishment, unless Cassidy is found to have Super Ninja fighting skills.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 08:41 AM   #268
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Cassidy might also, if a mentally ill transient, be deathly afraid of cops.
Cassidy might be a skeptic who reads ISF and therefore knows that cops are violent beasts and are extremely dangerous. If so, he isn't mentally ill - he is a critical thinker. Run like hell!
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Old 23rd January 2019, 08:49 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I can't see any evidence that the police officers did not practice due diligence before deciding what to do in this case.

Is there any positive evidence that they did, rather than a lack of evidence that they didn't?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:33 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Is there any positive evidence that they did, rather than a lack of evidence that they didn't?
You are certainly free to presume guilt on the part of the police.

I believe that Cassidy was not arrested prior to an investigation.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:35 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
IIRC, the daughter said she only saw Cassidy's face, which makes sense given the height of the window and that he was evidently peeking through a inch or less gap between two sets of blinds. That's why I think 'in the presence of a minor' will fail in court. It may be argued that she was not in the visual presence of the act, for which the intent of the law seems to provide penalty.
I thought I saw a pic of a window that was relatively tall and was not far from the ground? Such that even in a crouch, you would still be visible.

Also, I thought the point was to masturbate in view of the victim.

What's the point of masturbating where the victim can't tell you are masturbating?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

Last edited by LTC8K6; 23rd January 2019 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:39 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
You are certainly free to presume guilt on the part of the police.
Er, is that a yes, a no or an I don't know?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:43 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Er, is that a yes, a no or an I don't know?
I'm not obliged to answer your questions, counselor.

But, as far as I can tell, Cassidy was arrested quite a bit later at the hospital when doctors cleared him for release.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:48 PM   #274
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https://www.wpbf.com/article/accused...ather/25911671

You can see the window in this video.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:51 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I'm not obliged to answer your questions, counsellor.
Sorry, didn't mean to come over all barrister.

I was just wondering. If you know, I'll take your answer. If you don't I'll have to find it myself like any reasonable person would.


Quote:
But, as far as I can tell, Cassidy was arrested quite a bit later at the hospital when doctors cleared him for release.
Thanks.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 02:00 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I thought I saw a pic of a window that was relatively tall and was not far from the ground? Such that even in a crouch, you would still be visible.

Also, I thought the point was to masturbate in view of the victim.

What's the point of masturbating where the victim can't tell you are masturbating?
That's a hard one to answer. I have never actually found it necessary to make that determination.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 02:50 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Dude...seriously.

Beckham was working the guy over in public view. Of course he would want to get on the right side of the law if people could see him. Especially if he knew he had already gone over the line. That's the obscure tactic known as 'covering your ass'.
OR Beckham fully believed he was on the right side of the law and yelled for someone to call 911 because he wanted police present as soon as possible.

I believe the surprisingly mild extent of Cassidy's injuries after supposedly being helplessly and inescapably subject for several uninterrupted minutes to the unrestrained, violent, percussive ministrations of a large, angry, muscular thug-man with a revenge-beating on his mind until the arrival of police finally put an end to the ordeal, pretty clearly demonstrates which one of these is more supported by the actual evidence.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, he stopped the 'conversation' when the police arrived. What else in god's name would you expect him to do? It seems he continued the 'conversation' right up to the point where he couldn't justify it any longer.
If Beckham knew he was committing an illegal act (like Cassidy actually had been), I would "expect him" to run from the police (like Cassidy actually tried to).

But of course, Beckham did not run from the police, because he had requested a police response the entire time.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Cassidy seems to be a scrawny transient, possibly with mental disabilities.
Literally not the slightest scrap or sliver of evidence to even passively suggest Cassidy has any mental disability whatsoever. As usual you resort to reaching for the most remote possibilities and injecting them casually in attempt to poison the well. I would be just as justified in interjecting "Cassidy seems to be a scrawny transient, possibly a white-supremacist and domestic terrorist", and thence repeating "possible terrorist" during the discussion and demanding that people consider the possibility that he is a racist terrorist and Beckham disrupted a terrorist plot and hate-crime against his family as if that were plausible.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Beckham is a powerfully built athlete with experience in catching and dropping people who are running. I can't see how TB would have had any trouble restraining Cassidy without breaking his face, should he have chosen.
Beckham has "experience in catching and dropping people" who are encased in body armor and helmets pointedly designed to prevent injury to their bodies and particularly their heads and faces in the course of being caught and dropped. Isn't that a funny coincidence?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
This is not analogous to making a citizen's arrest on a jaywalker. This was privatized assault and battery against an alleged misdemeanor offender. If it turns out that Cassidy is in fact mentally disabled, will that change your view on what people can do to him?
If it turns out that Cassidy was a domestic terrorist who was screaming "white power, die [n-word]s!" while scouting the apartment complex for places to plant bombs that would destroy the entire complex, and being tackled Beckham was the only thing that prevented dozens if not hundreds of deaths, will that change your view on whether action to detain him until police arrived was unnecessary?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 03:08 PM   #278
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Looks like it's time to play my trump card.

Has anyone managed to find any online pictures of the daughter so that we may evaluate her in terms of hawtness? I kid, I kid.

Late one winter's eve, my brother (musician and luthier) was working out in his man-cave when he heard strange banging noises outside. While tracking down the source of the noise he walked around to the front of his house only to find a man on his front porch trying to jimmy the front door to (apparently) get inside my brother's house. "What are you doing?", my brother shouted. The man who was obviously intoxicated, turned around muttered something unintelligible to my brother and swiftly walked away. My brother continued to follow him as the man went to the the neighbor's house and tried to do the same thing to the neighbor's front door. Again my brother shouted at him.

At this point my brother decided it was a good idea to go back and get his phone (that he left in the man-cave) and call the cops. He was still on his front lawn when the man suddenly reappeared muttering something like "You want to know who I am? I'll show you who I am" bent down low and tried to tackle my brother. My brother, caught a little off guard, lost his footing and down the both went.

A tussle on my brother's front lawn ensued. According to my bro, the guy was totally wasted and perhaps on drugs so he easily got the better of the guy by sitting on his chest while the guy continued to struggle and resist. At one point, my brother, who is usually pretty chill, was wondering if he would have to brain the guy with a brick located conveniently just an arm's length because he was struggling so much. My brother was in the process of trying to pin his arm's down when, all of a sudden, the guy bit my brother's hand! And not just a love bite either it was a vicious bite. My brother yelled out in pain but the sudden shot of adrenaline helped him to finally subdue the man. Fortunately, some people had heard the struggle and the cops arrived to save the day. Apparently, the guy had tried to break in to some businesses across the street and had broken some windows as well.

Anyway, my brother had to go the hospital emergency room and then have a series of antibiotics administered all to the tune of around 2000 dollars. Fortunately, the witness protection system footed the bill. He had to fill out a lot of forms and in the end the perp never showed for his court date.


Long story short, go ahead and be a hero but just remember, be careful out there because it might be you going to the hospital.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 05:58 PM   #279
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Toxic masculinity or just a pervert?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:16 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If it turns out that Cassidy is in fact mentally disabled, will that change your view on what people can do to him?
Does Beckham have the necessary qualifications to have made a clinical psychological evaluation and diagnosis? I don't know. Do you?
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