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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:46 PM   #1
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Four Charged in Plot to Attack Muslim Community

That's the headline in USA Today. This story is just perfect for ISF as they haven't determined motives yet and the news stories are all from local (albeit pretty good) news sources. The Beeb picked it up, but with even less details.

Of course, no one will have any comments until we get some actual details as to their motives, amiright?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ed/2648611002/
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:51 PM   #2
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Islamberg.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 10:29 PM   #3
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These are obviously just three or four "lone wolves" all with "mental health issues" who just happened to plan to attack the same place at the same time. Together.

Organized right wing terrorism? Never heard of it. AntiFa is the real problem.

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Old 22nd January 2019, 10:43 PM   #4
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Who radicalised them?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:08 PM   #5
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Not sure what the point is or why this is particularly interesting.

* Four guys were (allegedly) planning to bomb a muslim community.
* Police recovered bombs and firearms.
* It was in Delaware County, near the Catskills.
* ???
* ???
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Not sure what the point is or why this is particularly interesting.

* Four guys were (allegedly) planning to bomb a muslim community.
* Police recovered bombs and firearms.
* It was in Delaware County, near the Catskills.
* ???
* ???
If they were Islamists it would be interesting.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
If they were Islamists it would be interesting.
Yep, that's the thing. Weird how this works.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Not sure what the point is or why this is particularly interesting.

* Four guys were (allegedly) planning to bomb a muslim community.
* Police recovered bombs and firearms.
* It was in Delaware County, near the Catskills.
* ???
* ???
So you are fine with this?

You don't see any sort of context here?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
So you are fine with this?
Uh, no.

????????

Quote:
You don't see any sort of context here?
Context?!? Yes, sure. I guess everything has a context. Why are you speaking in riddles?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 01:13 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Islamberg.
Got a problem with that? Its story is how many places got named.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 03:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Not sure what the point is or why this is particularly interesting.

* Four guys were (allegedly) planning to bomb a muslim community.
* Police recovered bombs and firearms.
* It was in Delaware County, near the Catskills.
* ???
* ???
It's breaking news. All the details have yet to come in. You don't find it "interesting" that if the case does pan out as expected, we have yet more home-grown nationalists and bigots who are taking up arms against non-combatants. I'm trying to remember what we call that when inconveniently darker hued individuals cross that line from patriotism to nationalism to... oh, yes, "terrorism".

I mean, it's not a Gillette ad, but I think it might be of interest. But that's just me, I guess.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 04:34 AM   #12
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They're not brown people from south of the border, illegally in the country, carrying drugs, or infected with smallpox, and they weren't attacking white people, so there's nothing to see here folks.

Don't expect any poutrage from the usual suspects... its not even worth a Presidential tweet, but if this was "blacks & injuns" throwing verbals at white catholic schoolboys, hoo boy, the usual suspects would be all over it like a rash, with their pearl-clutching fake outrage!
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Old 23rd January 2019, 04:40 AM   #13
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Greece, NY is just on the other side of Rochester from me. I don't listen to much local news except what I catch going to and from work. I hadn't heard this story until I read it here. I'll listen today.
That said, if these bastards were planing this, they need to be locked up. There are bad people on both sides.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 04:46 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Greece, NY is just on the other side of Rochester from me. I don't listen to much local news except what I catch going to and from work. I hadn't heard this story until I read it here. I'll listen today.
That said, if these bastards were planing this, they need to be locked up. There are bad people on both sides.
Nice one!
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Old 23rd January 2019, 05:36 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Greece, NY is just on the other side of Rochester from me. I don't listen to much local news except what I catch going to and from work. I hadn't heard this story until I read it here. I'll listen today.
That said, if these bastards were planing this, they need to be locked up. There are bad people on both sides.
I hadn't actually grokked where they are. That's like a two hundred mile drive from there to Islamberg. I'd like to see their internet history and reading material. A TN or KY redneck bigot was put away a few years ago for planning to do nasty things to the same community. Is "Islamberg" to alt-right militants like abortion clinics to right-to-life extremists... a great big target that's talked about in the sewers they hang out in? I mean, it's not like they passed it every day on their way to the skate park.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 08:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Greece, NY is just on the other side of Rochester from me. I don't listen to much local news except what I catch going to and from work. I hadn't heard this story until I read it here. I'll listen today.
That said, if these bastards were planing this, they need to be locked up. There are bad people on both sides.

Greece is about 7 miles from where I work and 20 miles from where I live (Hi neighbor). I don't keep track of local news much either, and this is also the first I've heard about it.

I see in another article that


Quote:
Over the last 15-20 years, right-wing media outlets and conservative groups have claimed that the community is a terrorist training camp, citing no evidence for their claims.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 08:55 AM   #17
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Where did the name of Islamberg come from? Was it a cloister of Moslem circa 1770? Or is it a translation of a Dutch word? Remember the PETA Paranoia about the name Fishkill? Turned out 'kill' was Dutch for 'creek'.

But my own conjecture is barely legal entrapment, again.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 09:02 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Not sure what the point is or why this is particularly interesting.

* Four guys were (allegedly) planning to bomb a muslim community.
* Police recovered bombs and firearms.
* It was in Delaware County, near the Catskills.
* ???
* ???
Maybe you have not noticed, but attempted mass murder is a very serious crime, while actual mass murder is even a more serious crime.

People who do such things often go to jail, or are even executed, for committing these types of crimes.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 09:06 AM   #19
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Oh attempted murder what kind of crime is that I ask you! Do they give Nobel Prizes for "attempted chemistry?"
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Old 23rd January 2019, 09:21 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Where did the name of Islamberg come from? Was it a cloister of Moslem circa 1770? Or is it a translation of a Dutch word? Remember the PETA Paranoia about the name Fishkill? Turned out 'kill' was Dutch for 'creek'.

But my own conjecture is barely legal entrapment, again.

In this case, it was founded in the 1980s by African-American Muslim families who were being persecuted in Brooklyn.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 09:22 AM   #21
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Wrings hands over minorities not being sufficiently called out for racism against white teenagers:
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Of course the Black Hebrew Israelites get a pass.
Finds potential terrorism plotted by white teenagers against minorities uninteresting:
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Not sure what the point is or why this is particularly interesting.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 09:50 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh attempted murder what kind of crime is that I ask you! Do they give Nobel Prizes for "attempted chemistry?"
You know, it's an aside, but I always wondered why an "attempted" crime has a lesser sentence than a successful crime.

"Okay, so I know you tried to commit mass murder, but because you were bad at it, and didn't get the job done, we're going to reward your incompetence with a lesser sentence."

Heck, I'd add years. Not only did you screw up, but you screwed up screwing up.


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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:05 PM   #23
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Weird story. Wonder what was in the initial picture that had fellow students that saw it disturbed enough to contact police. Also is Islamburg some kind of well known location for Muslims? The story seems to describe it as a few dozen families.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 12:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
You know, it's an aside, but I always wondered why an "attempted" crime has a lesser sentence than a successful crime.

"Okay, so I know you tried to commit mass murder, but because you were bad at it, and didn't get the job done, we're going to reward your incompetence with a lesser sentence."

Heck, I'd add years. Not only did you screw up, but you screwed up screwing up.

Duh, the guy that fails at committing a crime is much less of a threat to society than the guy that succeeds.
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post

Of course, no one will have any comments until we get some actual details as to their motives, amiright?
Man, you must be psychic.

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I hadn't actually grokked where they are. That's like a two hundred mile drive from there to Islamberg. I'd like to see their internet history and reading material. A TN or KY redneck bigot was put away a few years ago for planning to do nasty things to the same community. Is "Islamberg" to alt-right militants like abortion clinics to right-to-life extremists... a great big target that's talked about in the sewers they hang out in? I mean, it's not like they passed it every day on their way to the skate park.
Obviously its the insult of combining Islam with a German word.

Quote:
In November 2015, Jon Ritzheimer, of Phoenix, Arizona, made news for threatening an attack on Islamberg.[7]

In June 2017, a Tennessee man, Robert Doggart, was sentenced to almost 20 years in prison for plotting an attack on Islamberg.[8][9]

In January 2019, three men and one male minor were arrested for plotting an attack on Islamberg with explosives.[10][11][12] Police found 23 firearms and three homemade bombs that investigators claim were going to be used to attack the hamlet.[13]
My guess is that its such an easy target for morons to figure out, Islam is right in the name.

I look forward to hearing more about this, as with most such things, best not to pay attention for a few weeks to avoid the BS speculation on the part of responsible journalists.

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Old 23rd January 2019, 03:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
You know, it's an aside, but I always wondered why an "attempted" crime has a lesser sentence than a successful crime.
Because nothing breeds success like success?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 03:15 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Duh, the guy that fails at committing a crime is much less of a threat to society than the guy that succeeds.
Really?

A number of Theodore Kaczinski's IEDs either partially failed, didn't go off at all or didn't kill their intended victims. Did that make him "less of a threat to society"?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 03:18 PM   #27
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Glad they got themselves caught before they did any harm. From the look of them, they sure aren't at the top of their class, but even stupid people can be successful, so, once again, glad they got themselves caught.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 10:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Duh, the guy that fails at committing a crime is much less of a threat to society than the guy that succeeds.
I'm not sure I agree, the guy the succeeds often doesn't have a reason to try it again.
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Old 24th January 2019, 12:55 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Really?

A number of Theodore Kaczinski's IEDs either partially failed, didn't go off at all or didn't kill their intended victims. Did that make him "less of a threat to society"?
Ermm... Yes? If they'd all gone off exactly as planned he'd have killed more people.
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Old 24th January 2019, 07:49 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Duh, the guy that fails at committing a crime is much less of a threat to society than the guy that succeeds.
Man, you must be psychic.
Quote:
In November 2015, Jon Ritzheimer, of Phoenix, Arizona, made news for threatening an attack on Islamberg.[7]

In June 2017, a Tennessee man, Robert Doggart, was sentenced to almost 20 years in prison for plotting an attack on Islamberg.[8][9]

In January 2019, three men and one male minor were arrested for plotting an attack on Islamberg with explosives.[10][11][12] Police found 23 firearms and three homemade bombs that investigators claim were going to be used to attack the hamlet.[13]
Islamberg is a hamlet?
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Old 24th January 2019, 08:04 AM   #31
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More info and back story here: https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-maga...lames?ref=home
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Old 24th January 2019, 08:14 AM   #32
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Point of clarification, my comment regarding the guy failing to commit a crime was meant to be tongue in cheek. Thus the "Duh".
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Old 24th January 2019, 10:27 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Not sure what the point is or why this is particularly interesting.

* Four guys were (allegedly) planning to bomb a muslim community.
* Police recovered bombs and firearms.
* It was in Delaware County, near the Catskills.
* ???
* ???
The case itself is not particularly interesting. Some people are taking note of it because of how it relates to Trump's rhetoric and policies.

Trump has regularly spoken out about the potential for crime from places like Mexico (demanding money for a border wall to stop drug crime/gang violence) and the middle east (the "muslim ban" to stop islamic terrorism.) He has also taken resources that might address white nationalist violence and diverted it to other projects.

Yet here is a case that illustrates that violence can be perpetrated by white individuals. It is a form of crime that the president has given little time or attention to (even though terrorist attacks by white nationalist groups is much more common than islamic terrorism in the U.S.)
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Old 24th January 2019, 10:39 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The case itself is not particularly interesting. Some people are taking note of it because of how it relates to Trump's rhetoric and policies.

Trump has regularly spoken out about the potential for crime from places like Mexico (demanding money for a border wall to stop drug crime/gang violence) and the middle east (the "muslim ban" to stop islamic terrorism.) He has also taken resources that might address white nationalist violence and diverted it to other projects.

Yet here is a case that illustrates that violence can be perpetrated by white individuals. It is a form of crime that the president has given little time or attention to (even though terrorist attacks by white nationalist groups is much more common than islamic terrorism in the U.S.)
You were doing OK until the last sentence. These people are terrorists (if found guilty, of course). They are no different to ISIS terrorists or any other brand of terrorist and should be treated accordingly. However, the weasel words of your last sentence are intended to mislead. 50% of fatalities from terrorism in the US in recent years have resulted from an Islamic source; that is to say, 1% of the population have been responsible for fully half the deaths. And that's not counting 9/11.
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Old 24th January 2019, 11:08 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
You were doing OK until the last sentence. These people are terrorists (if found guilty, of course). They are no different to ISIS terrorists or any other brand of terrorist and should be treated accordingly. However, the weasel words of your last sentence are intended to mislead. 50% of fatalities from terrorism in the US in recent years have resulted from an Islamic source; that is to say, 1% of the population have been responsible for fully half the deaths. And that's not counting 9/11.
Exactly! This is very logical argument for not wanting to increase the 1% to 1.5% or 2%. The same argument can be applied to the rate of crime committed by latinos coming from the south. Call it profiling if you want, but if we are not allowed to pick and chose from where they come, then I am fine with not letting anyone in.

And for what it's worth, as long as the story is accurate, these three should get life in prison at the least.
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Old 24th January 2019, 11:11 AM   #36
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
You were doing OK until the last sentence. These people are terrorists (if found guilty, of course). They are no different to ISIS terrorists or any other brand of terrorist and should be treated accordingly. However, the weasel words of your last sentence are intended to mislead. 50% of fatalities from terrorism in the US in recent years have resulted from an Islamic source; that is to say, 1% of the population have been responsible for fully half the deaths. And that's not counting 9/11.
Got a link?

Here's one for you....

From: https://qz.com/1435885/data-shows-mo...us-extremists/
... 2017, when most attacks in the US were committed by right-wing extremists. Out of 65 incidents last year, 37 were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations.... In the same period, seven attacks were linked to Islamic extremists, and 11 attacks were inspired by left-leaning ideologies.

Last time I checked, 37 was a bigger number than 7. But them maybe my math is wrong.
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Old 24th January 2019, 11:14 AM   #37
William Parcher
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These guys are domestic terrorists who were stopped before they could strike.

I think that the most dangerous and deadly domestic terrorism isn't classified as terrorism. It's the street gangs. Thousands of victims die every single year. Not classified as terrorism because the cause is not political or religious. But it is fundamentally the same because their targets are those who are "not one of us".
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Old 24th January 2019, 11:18 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Got a link?
Of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror...#Recent_trends

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Here's one for you....

From: https://qz.com/1435885/data-shows-mo...us-extremists/
... 2017, when most attacks in the US were committed by right-wing extremists. Out of 65 incidents last year, 37 were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations.... In the same period, seven attacks were linked to Islamic extremists, and 11 attacks were inspired by left-leaning ideologies.

Last time I checked, 37 was a bigger number than 7. But them maybe my math is wrong.
You want to read my post again? I never said you were lying, I said you were using weasel words. By concentrating on the number of attacks as opposed to fatalities, and by ignoring the issue of relative populations, you are playing down the Islamic threat.
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Old 24th January 2019, 11:27 AM   #39
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by jeffas69 View Post
And for what it's worth, as long as the story is accurate, these three should get life in prison at the least.
There are actually four of them. One is a 16 year old, so he isn't named or have a mugshot. Because he is a juvenile, our society gives him reduced punishment and other perks. Down the road he could become the next leader of another domestic terrorism cell.
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Old 24th January 2019, 11:29 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There are actually four of them. One is a 16 year old, so he isn't named or have a mugshot. Because he is a juvenile, our society gives him reduced punishment and other perks. Down the road he could become the next leader of another domestic terrorism cell.
Sixteen is plenty old enough to take responsibility for trying to blow up a load of civilians. He should get the same punishment as the rest. IMO, if they're proven guilty, they should get death.
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