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Old 29th January 2019, 03:32 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think if you have meet people who think this, you should probably just google History of the relationship between Japan and China for them
Or perhaps the history of mankind, since we've all been fearing and killing each other for pretty much forever.

All groups are as racist/prejudice as the others. How could anyone claim otherwise (and prove it)? It's in our DNA.

I'd say grouping whites together as one team with a common trait is racist.

As for America as a county and culture, we have a very tolerant view of who can come here. We even let people sneak in and we do little about it! In fact we ARGUE over it!

I suppose we started as a mostly white country but we aren't now. We even had a black president.

No, America is just fine. Stop reading the BS news and go outside, take a look around, it's still a damn good place to be no matter what color you are.

What other country has a statue inviting people to come? What other country is more desirable place for people to immigrate than the US? None. By a huge margin.

Such doom and gloom here at ISF! Last year y'all thought we were going to nuclear war with Korea. Dial down the craziness, please.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:45 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What other country has a statue inviting people to come?

It doesn't though. It has a statue that has words on the bottom that aren't relevant anymore. Not unless they've crossed out the bit about the poor.
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:57 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
IYeah, Japan has racism. Who doesnít? But, Japanís racism is more of the bewilderment at foreigners variety.

I think that's a fairly shallow and ethno-centric view. It may apply when speaking about Americans/British/other white foreigners, whom the Japanese have long had an arms-length fascination with; but it certainly doesn't apply to Koreans, Filipinos, or other east-asian/southeast-asian foreigners, or to indigenous peoples like the Ainu. These people tend to be treated very badly in Japan, and even married residents are unable to achieve more than second-class citizen status at best. Filipinos and other south-east asians are common in Japan, having been brought in as "guest workers" primarily for the construction industry, and tend to be treated at least as badly there as illegal Mexican immigrant labourers are treated in the US. A whole lot of them are also trafficked as sex workers, along with Koreans and Chinese.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:05 AM   #84
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I have said in the past that I do often raise an eyebrow when extremely homogeneous societies take the United States to task for having problems getting everybody to get along. There's always an air of "I don't see what's hard about getting a bunch of different cultures, races, religions, and other backgrounds to just get along. Seems like it should be easy. I mean we wouldn't know becauset 99+% of people in our country are culturally identical, but it just seems like it should be easy."

Japan has a Cultural Diversity Index of .012. It has less diversity than any country outside of the two Koreas. It has almost no "minorities" in any usable sense of the term. I'm not impressed that they can get every one to get along when they're all the same.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:08 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm not impressed that they can get every one to get along when they're all the same.
I can only imagine the reaction if I had said that.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:14 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I can only imagine the reaction if I had said that.
Yeah that's what happens when you're "Totally not racist, I'm just always on the racist side of every argument by some amazing coincidence." you lose the benefit of the doubt.

I can do it because... I'm not. Not having to defend my white honor like it's my virginal daughter I caught in the hay loft with one of the local boys every time it is threatened lets me make statements about racially charged topics with more freedom. I can point at racism when I see, I can point at not racism when I see it. It's useful, you should try it some time.

Also notice my statement had those pesky... facts in there. Japan being a culturally homogeneous nation is not something I made up to show up the libtards and the uppity colored folk.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:28 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah that's what happens when you're "Totally not racist, I'm just always on the racist side of every argument by some amazing coincidence." you lose the benefit of the doubt.

I can do it because... I'm not. Not having to defend my white honor like it's my virginal daughter I caught in the hay loft with one of the local boys every time it is threatened lets me make statements about racially charged topics with more freedom. I can point at racism when I see, I can point at not racism when I see it. It's useful, you should try it some time.

Also notice my statement had those pesky... facts in there. Japan being a culturally homogeneous nation is not something I made up to show up the libtards and the uppity colored folk.
This.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:30 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I have said in the past that I do often raise an eyebrow when extremely homogeneous societies take the United States to task for having problems getting everybody to get along. There's always an air of "I don't see what's hard about getting a bunch of different cultures, races, religions, and other backgrounds to just get along. Seems like it should be easy. I mean we wouldn't know becauset 99+% of people in our country are culturally identical, but it just seems like it should be easy."

Japan has a Cultural Diversity Index of .012. It has less diversity than any country outside of the two Koreas. It has almost no "minorities" in any usable sense of the term. I'm not impressed that they can get every one to get along when they're all the same.
I don't think I've ever heard of Japanese or Chinese or Koreans wondering why heterogeneous countries have problems with people getting along. The Japanese that I've met seem shocked that Americans and Europeans think that multiculturalism is even possible. They understand exactly why our countries have the internal conflict that they do.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:31 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
I don't think I've ever heard of Japanese or Chinese or Koreans wondering why heterogeneous countries have problems with people getting along. The Japanese that I've met seem shocked that Americans and Europeans think that multiculturalism is even possible. They understand exactly why our countries have the internal conflict that they do.
It's more of a third person thing, when someone brings up, like the examples of Japan or the Nordic countries as places where people get along better and I'm like... well duh.
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Old 30th January 2019, 12:59 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah that's what happens when you're "Totally not racist, I'm just always on the racist side of every argument by some amazing coincidence." you lose the benefit of the doubt.
What doubt? There is no equivocation in your statement, there is no doubt to apportion. You clearly stated that you're not impressed that the Japanese 'can get on with' other Japanese because they're all the same (your italics). Let's leave aside the naive idea that the Japanese are all the same and instead concentrate on the unavoidable logical implication that different races / ethnicities can only mix with difficulty, or maybe not at all.

You state this openly and then, when I pick up on it, get all passive-aggressive and insinuate that I'm the racist! This is the level to which this forum has descended and you're the one who, in damn near every thread, ignores the topic to bemoan the lack of intelligent debate.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I can do it because... I'm not. Not having to defend my white honor like it's my virginal daughter I caught in the hay loft with one of the local boys every time it is threatened lets me make statements about racially charged topics with more freedom. I can point at racism when I see, I can point at not racism when I see it. It's useful, you should try it some time.
No, I state my opinions openly, I'm not two-faced.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Also notice my statement had those pesky... facts in there. Japan being a culturally homogeneous nation is not something I made up to show up the libtards and the uppity colored folk.
And?

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Old 30th January 2019, 02:37 PM   #91
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Cute. If I was kind of person who ran off with my tail between my legs to recheck my privilege and re-certify my wokeness at the very hint of being called a racist I'll be bothered right now. Probably fits in with your "Non-whites are the real racists!" narrative.

I'm comfortable being judged on my racial opinions. I'll let my posting history speak for itself. I'm not the one seeing race grifters around every corner and being okay with dead black people in every single instance where it happens.
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Old 30th January 2019, 02:45 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Cute. If I was kind of person who ran off with my tail between my legs to recheck my privilege and re-certify my wokeness at the very hint of being called a racist I'll be bothered right now. Probably fits in with your "Non-whites are the real racists!" narrative.

I'm comfortable being judged on my racial opinions.
Good, because that's what I've just done. Actually I haven't, I've highlighted your hypocrisy after that major slip-up, but suddenly you want to talk about anything but what you posted.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'll let my posting history speak for itself.
Right-O, I'll ask your posting history.

JoeMorgue's Posting History, I see that your originator has messed up and posted something that goes against practically everything you contain, do you have any explanation for this? You're going to have to suck it up, too. Are you angry with him?

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm not the one seeing race grifters around every corner and being okay with dead black people in every single instance where it happens.
"Dead black people in every single instance where it happens"? Who's dead? Where what happens? Should I ask your posting history about that word salad as well?
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Old 30th January 2019, 05:18 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
IMO bothering to cite and refute such ignorant opinions is as silly as bothering to cite and refute the views of strawmen. In my experience both, thankfully, are rare.

Can I please come to where you are.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:25 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I think that's a fairly shallow and ethno-centric view.
Oh God, here we go....

Quote:
It may apply when speaking about Americans/British/other white foreigners, whom the Japanese have long had an arms-length fascination with
I was actually going to get round to elaborating on this and on my previous remarks but I havenít got round to it yet because what I wanted to say was long and required more effort than it took to write my original posts.

Quote:
but it certainly doesn't apply to Koreans, Filipinos, or other east-asian/southeast-asian foreigners, or to indigenous peoples like the Ainu. These people tend to be treated very badly in Japan, and even married residents are unable to achieve more than second-class citizen status at best. Filipinos and other south-east asians are common in Japan, having been brought in as "guest workers" primarily for the construction industry, and tend to be treated at least as badly there as illegal Mexican immigrant labourers are treated in the US. A whole lot of them are also trafficked as sex workers, along with Koreans and Chinese.
Yes, I am well aware that the exoticness of being white makes things very different for visitors from Europe, the US and Australasia, to name a few places.

Please be assured that I know that Koreans and Chinese in particular often get very different treatment, although I would point out that your characterization is well out of date. Some of what you are talking about pre-dates World War Two, and some of it sounds like it came from the 1970s. The relationship between Japan and Korea and between Japan and China is much more on even footing these days, and Korean culture in particular (but also Taiwanese and Vietnamese) has seen a massive amount of popularity. Most of these countries are far wealthier than they were before. I would be particularly surprised if large numbers of South Koreans were trafficked for sex these days.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:00 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Please be assured that I know that Koreans and Chinese in particular often get very different treatment, although I would point out that your characterization is well out of date. Some of what you are talking about pre-dates World War Two, and some of it sounds like it came from the 1970s. The relationship between Japan and Korea and between Japan and China is much more on even footing these days, and Korean culture in particular (but also Taiwanese and Vietnamese) has seen a massive amount of popularity. Most of these countries are far wealthier than they were before. I would be particularly surprised if large numbers of South Koreans were trafficked for sex these days.

I don't know about the '70s, but I've been an observer of Japanese culture since the '80s, and while there has been some surface change, their fundamental treatment of other Asian and SE Asian peoples has not substantially improved. What is being described as "popularity" of Korean culture is actually better described as cultural appropriation,

And while South Korea is a fairly wealthy country, that image is rather misleading. As in the US, the majority of wealth is concentrated in a small small percentage of the population, with the lower classes not much better off than they are here. Still, they're generally better off than SE Asians who do likely provide the bulk of sex workers in Japan these days. And Japan is the worst among developed nations for sex trafficking of all sorts.

Despite their appropriation of the surface trappings of other cultures, their values remain largely unchanged. The history that is taught in schools is still highly revisionist and ethnocentric, and despite personal apologies from members of the government, officially Japan has never even fully acknowledged its war crimes, let alone fully apologized for them; and large factions continue to deny them, while lionizing war criminals.

Indigenous peoples in Japan, most notably the Ainu, continue to be oppressed and marginalized, despite a few token reforms, and there appears to be little political will in the government to do anything but pretend the situation does not exist.

And that's not getting into the economic and environmental damage their fishing and whaling practices continue to wreak on the world's oceans.

I'm not saying that to demonize Japan or Japanese culture, G-D knows western countries are little better, if at all, in their treatment of many minorities and indigenous peoples, or in taking responsibility for the sins of the past, or the sins of the present. But there is a tendency for fans of Japanese media and culture (which I certainly am) to gloss over and downplay the very real, persistent, and deeply-rooted problems of Japanese ethnocentrism, sexism and anti-LGBTQ bigotry, and cultural chauvinism; and the very real problem of addressing those issues from within the culture.
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:21 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
It doesn't though. It has a statue that has words on the bottom that aren't relevant anymore. Not unless they've crossed out the bit about the poor.
Much like most of Australia's national anthem is lies.
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Old 1st February 2019, 07:52 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I have said in the past that I do often raise an eyebrow when extremely homogeneous societies take the United States to task for having problems getting everybody to get along. There's always an air of "I don't see what's hard about getting a bunch of different cultures, races, religions, and other backgrounds to just get along. Seems like it should be easy. I mean we wouldn't know becauset 99+% of people in our country are culturally identical, but it just seems like it should be easy."

Japan has a Cultural Diversity Index of .012. It has less diversity than any country outside of the two Koreas. It has almost no "minorities" in any usable sense of the term. I'm not impressed that they can get every one to get along when they're all the same.
This sounds a lot like what SkepticTank would write and as far as I can tell, you both are pretty much opposites in every respect. So what am I missing? Would you elaborate a bit or clarify because I'm honestly not seeing much of a difference.

Is it because of the differing conclusions reached that I'm not seeing here in this post?
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:38 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's more of a third person thing, when someone brings up, like the examples of Japan or the Nordic countries as places where people get along better and I'm like... well duh.
So are you saying it's obvious that the reason people get along better in Japan or Nordic countries because their nations are more homogeneous?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 04:07 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
This sounds a lot like what SkepticTank would write and as far as I can tell, you both are pretty much opposites in every respect. So what am I missing? Would you elaborate a bit or clarify because I'm honestly not seeing much of a difference.

Is it because of the differing conclusions reached that I'm not seeing here in this post?
Apparently all queries have to be directed to his Posting History. I'm still waiting for my reply so I assume there's a backlog.
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Old 4th February 2019, 08:29 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
This sounds a lot like what SkepticTank would write and as far as I can tell, you both are pretty much opposites in every respect. So what am I missing? Would you elaborate a bit or clarify because I'm honestly not seeing much of a difference.

Is it because of the differing conclusions reached that I'm not seeing here in this post?

Lack of diversity typically results in a more superficially "harmonious" society, for multiple reasons. Mostly, though, there's less of a sense of Other about other members of the society, therefore less compromise that needs to be made between people, and also less tendency to scapegoat a particular group for perceived social ills.

The opposite side of that monoculture coin is a lack of social progress, stagnation, and oppressive conformism. A popular Japanese proverb, "the nail that sticks up gets pounded down," demonstrates how repressive such a homogeneous and conformist society can be.

Japanese culture has largely avoided the worst extremes of culture stagnation due to multiple invasions from outside the islands, China and Korea repeatedly throughout its history, and European nations more recently. As a result, they developed a bit of obsession with the trappings of these cultures, incorporating and refining them within the framework of their own society, while still remaining largely insular on a more fundamental level.

Of course, that superficial social harmony in Japanese culture belies a lot more turmoil under the surface than is typically visible to outsiders. The lot of the burakumin, the "untouchable" classes in particular, is a rough one, and fraught with oppression, ostracism, and violence (albeit on a less dramatic scale than in Western nations); and they form the bulk of Japanese organized crime syndicates (Yakuza). Ethnic Koreans born in Japan also face serious negative social pressures, including inability to become full citizens and obtain citizenship rights, and are disproportionately represented in organized crime syndicates as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza#Burakumin

The reason that Japan seems so stable and harmonious to the outside world is due more to the Culture of Shame, and the concept of "saving face", not allowing "outsiders" to see the more negative aspects of their society.
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