horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett - Page 2

Puppycow · 30th January 2019, 05:05 AM

Sorry if this is behind a paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/a...-attacked.html

Quote:

On Tuesday night, the police said in a statement that the area where Smollett said the attack occurred had “very high density of city and private surveillance cameras.” Detectives had viewed hundreds of hours of video but “unfortunately, thus far we have not found any helpful information on a suspect or a suspect’s vehicle to be able to share,” the statement said. The police were widening their search to cameras from surrounding areas.

Were they ninjas? It just doesn't add up.

baron · 30th January 2019, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Sorry if this is behind a paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/a...-attacked.html

Were they ninjas? It just doesn't add up.

They were indeed ninjas. White ninjas, always prepared. We know that because although they appeared to encounter him unexpectedly ("Aren't you that faggot 'Empire' ******?") they were already wearing ski-masks. Being Trump supporting ninjas they likely wear these ski masks 24/7 (and carry bleach, and a noose) just in case they run into a non-white. It all makes sense, don't question it.

MikeG · 30th January 2019, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

The latter. I don't think these attackers exist....

Why on earth would a successful person involve himself in something like this as a deliberate fraud? Does your "sniff test" not work the other way too? Mine does, and the idea that someone would risk ruining their career with a stunt like this fails to pass my sniff test. Unless, of course, you've got some evidence.

The guy has a broken rib and a bashed face. Therefore someone broke his rib and bashed his face. Either he got someone to do that to him and gave them enough incentive to keep quiet about it........or he was attacked. If he was attacked, there were attackers. The only thing I can see to be questioning of is where this attack took place, because it most certainly had to have happened somewhere.

TofuFighter · 30th January 2019, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

The latter. I don't think these attackers exist.
So far police have been unable to find any evidence of their existence.

That would have to include finding rope, dousing himself with something, and causing at least minor injuries to himself. If this is a hoax, would you agree that it would have to require some degree of planning, and has at least some legal jeopardy attached?

To me, that seems much less likely than him having been assaulted by someone, even if the maga angle is just being made up or sensationalised.

Is it just, or mainly, the lack of video evidence found of an attacker that makes you think this is a hoax, given the comparative likelihood of each case? or do you think it's more likely that this is a fairly elaborate hoax than an assault? I'm a little confused by your position.

Hungry81 · 30th January 2019, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever? Those are the only two schools of skepticism here.

yes to all.

ponderingturtle · 30th January 2019, 06:11 AM

Best fake hate crime since the synagogue shooting.

JoeMorgue · 30th January 2019, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever? Those are the only two schools of skepticism here.

Oh so you're one of those wishy-washy "Middle Grounders" I see.

angrysoba · 30th January 2019, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

The latter. I don't think these attackers exist.

So far police have been unable to find any evidence of their existence.

Well, that’s not exactly true, is it? Surely the evidence is:

That he was injured (aren’t there photographs of him with cuts and swelling on his face?)
That he was put in a noose of some kind and showed this to police?
That he received some letter through the post a week prior to the attack with similar imagery and a threat?

I mean, you can claim that he might be a dedicated ******** artist and produced all the evidence himself for whatever cockamamie motive you imagine, but all of those things would ordinarily be considered evidence, wouldn’t they?

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 06:15 AM

Listen, if I was a top paid hollywood actor, and I did something dumb, and got beat up in a bar, or fell off of my bike drunk, and dinged up my face before filming, I might make up some story like some racist-homophobes tried to lynch me.

Generate sympathy for me, while at the same time not looking like a drunk who fell off a scooter in the middle of the night.

alfaniner · 30th January 2019, 06:16 AM

The most questionable thing about this is two white racists recognizing an actor from Empire.

JoeMorgue · 30th January 2019, 06:17 AM

Alright I'm convinced. Every time a black person is assaulted we need to arrest them for lying.

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Alright I'm convinced. Every time a black person is assaulted we need to arrest them for lying.

Every time a black person makes up a story, in the highest camera-density area of Chicago, about white people attacking them, diminishing an actual claim by someone who is a real victim, we should arrest them for lying.

JoeMorgue · 30th January 2019, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

Every time a black person makes up a story, in the highest camera-density area of Chicago, about white people attacking them, diminishing an actual claim by someone who is a real victim, we should arrest them for lying.

Which according to some people on this board is literally every crime against black people ever.

And really this whole "Oh black people... don't you be lying now I might not believe you in the future" would come across as a lot more genuine if there was a chance the usual suspects are ever going to believe a report of a white on black crime isn't just race baiting by those uppity colored folks.

angrysoba · 30th January 2019, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

Listen, if I was a top paid hollywood actor, and I did something dumb, and got beat up in a bar, or fell off of my bike drunk, and dinged up my face before filming, I might make up some story like some racist-homophobes tried to lynch me.

Generate sympathy for me, while at the same time not looking like a drunk who fell off a scooter in the middle of the night.

What a brilliant idea! Instead of saying, "I fell off my bicycle while on my morning shop!" write yourself a letter one week in advance and get it posted to yourself, with a postmark, get the police and the press involved by making up some hoax attack, sit back and hope that nobody finds out the holes in your story, or nobody comes forward with mobile phone footage of the fight in the bar and contradicts the fake story you decided to publicize!

There's no way that that story that you planned a week in advance could go horribly and predictably wrong...

What could be a better idea...for a total idiot?!

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Which according to some people on this board is literally every crime against black people ever.

And really this whole "Oh black people... don't you be lying now I might not believe you in the future" would come across as a lot more genuine if there was a chance the usual suspects were ever going to believe a report of a white on black crime isn't just race baiting by those uppity colored folks.

There are plenty of white on black crimes.
But a drunk guy falling off a Lime Scooter, and then making up an attack by white folks is just terrible.

Belz... · 30th January 2019, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Well I said it in the other thread, so I'll repeat it here.

This one will turn out to be a hoax.

Since there is no link here yet, I'll also provide one:

Attackers Put Empire Star in Noose: Report

What do you mean by hoax? The attack didn't occur? The attackers were passing themselves off as MAGA supporters? What?

ETA: Oh I see you answered that earlier this morning.

Belz... · 30th January 2019, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever?

No such thing as the latter, TM. Pick a side!

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

What do you mean by hoax? The attack didn't occur? The attackers were passing themselves off as MAGA supporters? What?

ETA: Oh I see you answered that earlier this morning.

The MAGA supporter thing was added by TMZ.

Journalistic license.

Belz... · 30th January 2019, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Oh so you're one of those wishy-washy "Middle Grounders" I see.

Clearly TM believes in being in the exact middle of every discussion. I have that on good authority.

Mike! · 30th January 2019, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

What a brilliant idea! Instead of saying, "I fell off my bicycle while on my morning shop!" write yourself a letter one week in advance and get it posted to yourself, with a postmark, get the police and the press involved by making up some hoax attack, sit back and hope that nobody finds out the holes in your story, or nobody comes forward with mobile phone footage of the fight in the bar and contradicts the fake story you decided to publicize!

There's no way that that story that you planned a week in advance could go horribly and predictably wrong...

What could be a better idea...for a total idiot?!

A few years ago, a guy killed his wife and children. He had planned it for some time and had sent himself threatening letters so when he finally did kill them, he thought he'd already created an alibi for himself with the threatening letters. It didn't work in the end, and they proved he was responsible. So the idea of pre sending yourself threatening letters isn't exactly a new one. Personally, I feel the lack of video evidence and the idea he walked around with a noose around his neck for 45 minutes is a bit troubling.

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 06:42 AM

I've been to that part of Chicago, the cops are quick to respond.

This wasn't the South Side, this was Streeterville.

no way 45 minutes from time of attack to the cops getting there.

angrysoba · 30th January 2019, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Mike!

A few years ago, a guy killed his wife and children. He had planned it for some time and had sent himself threatening letters so when he finally did kill them, he thought he'd already created an alibi for himself with the threatening letters. It didn't work in the end, and they proved he was responsible. So the idea of pre sending yourself threatening letters isn't exactly a new one. Personally, I feel the lack of video evidence and the idea he walked around with a noose around his neck for 45 minutes is a bit troubling.

Yeah, if he was planning to kill his wife and children and needed an alibi.

Who the **** plans to do something dumb and get beaten up in a bar or fall off their bike while drunk during filming?

It's trivially easy to say you fell off your bike sober. Not so easy to explain a brutally murdered family. Do you see how your comparison makes no ******* sense at all?

Originally Posted by Drewbot

Listen, if I was a top paid hollywood actor, and I did something dumb, and got beat up in a bar, or fell off of my bike drunk, and dinged up my face before filming, I might make up some story like some racist-homophobes tried to lynch me.

Generate sympathy for me, while at the same time not looking like a drunk who fell off a scooter in the middle of the night.

Puppycow · 30th January 2019, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by MikeG

Why on earth would a successful person involve himself in something like this as a deliberate fraud? Does your "sniff test" not work the other way too? Mine does, and the idea that someone would risk ruining their career with a stunt like this fails to pass my sniff test.

That is a good question. Sometimes people take risks that logic says they shouldn't. People aren't always 100% rational.

But here's one possible reason:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ck/2709986002/

Quote:

Support for Smollett following the attack began pouring in through social media Tuesday, including from his boss, "Empire" co-creator, Lee Daniels, as well as several of his co-stars and celebrity admirers.

MikeG · 30th January 2019, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

....... People aren't always 100% rational........

As your arguments are clearly demonstrating.

Puppycow · 30th January 2019, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

I've been to that part of Chicago, the cops are quick to respond.

This wasn't the South Side, this was Streeterville.

no way 45 minutes from time of attack to the cops getting there.

10 minutes from when his friend called 911. In other words, the 911 call would have been about 35 minutes after the attack.

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Yeah, if he was planning to kill his wife and children and needed an alibi.

Who the **** plans to do something dumb and get beaten up in a bar or fall off their bike while drunk during filming?

It's trivially easy to say you fell off your bike sober. Not so easy to explain a brutally murdered family. Do you see how your comparison makes no ******* sense at all?

Hollywood actors get hate mail all the time.

I think Jimmy Kimmel does a segment about it. Starts Read Their Own Tweets or something like that. He could have a dozen of those tweets.

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

That is a good question. Sometimes people take risks that logic says they shouldn't. People aren't always 100% rational.

But here's one possible reason:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ck/2709986002/

Also remember, drugs or mental illness.

We've lost too many talented people to suicide or drug overdose, this could be a different manifestation of a similar problem.

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 07:08 AM

https://etcanada.com/news/366767/sha...-on-instagram/

Other celebrities have fallen off of a scooter, they made light of it.

applecorped · 30th January 2019, 07:12 AM

Hoax

MikeG · 30th January 2019, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

Also remember, drugs or mental illness.

We've lost too many talented people to suicide or drug overdose, this could be a different manifestation of a similar problem.

Honestly? Sheesh. How did a mental illness break his rib? How did it smash his face up? Did it ever cross your mind for a second that there are some honest people on the planet? That someone who claims to have been beaten up and has the injuries to back up that claim, may have actually been beaten up? No?

MikeG · 30th January 2019, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

I've been to that part of Chicago, the cops are quick to respond........

How did you test this assertion? Do you have any statistics which support your test results? Did your test of police arrival times take place at the same time of night as this event? Or have you just plucked this crap out of the air?

applecorped · 30th January 2019, 07:17 AM

Still a hoax

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by MikeG

Honestly? Sheesh. How did a mental illness break his rib? How did it smash his face up? Did it ever cross your mind for a second that there are some honest people on the planet? That someone who claims to have been beaten up and has the injuries to back up that claim, may have actually been beaten up? No?

Mental Illness, he gets high, falls off a scooter, decides to make up the story, thinking he can get away with it.

Injuries are consistent with a scooter injury, not so much with getting beat up by people who hate you for your skin color.

alfaniner · 30th January 2019, 07:19 AM

Although it does sound to me like a falsification, I'm trying to imagine what kind of scenario would make him think a story like this is more believable than the truth.

The only thing I can think of is a domestic dispute where he still wants to protect his partner.

applecorped · 30th January 2019, 07:22 AM

Smears first. Facts later. How much deader can American journalism get?

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by MikeG

How did you test this assertion? Do you have any statistics which support your test results? Did your test of police arrival times take place at the same time of night as this event? Or have you just plucked this crap out of the air?

https://www.aclu-il.org/en/press-rel...ices-south-and

Quote:

For example, in July of 2013, residents in Grand Crossing, a minority neighborhood, waited an average of 11 minutes (10:41) for an officer to be dispatched in response to a Priority 1 call; by contrast, residents in Jefferson Park, a predominantly white neighborhood, had an average wait time of less than 2.5 minutes (2:26). The dispatch time was nearly 4.5 times longer in this minority district.

MikeG · 30th January 2019, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

.......Injuries are consistent with a scooter injury, not so much with getting beat up by people who hate you for your skin color.

You know this precisely how? You're some sort of medical forensics expert, are you? You know that he has access to a scooter too, and presumably you've got evidence he was riding it in that area that night?

MikeG · 30th January 2019, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

https://www.aclu-il.org/en/press-rel...ices-south-and

Wrong time of day (late morning as opposed to middle of the night). So, as I said, got any evidence? And do you know this was made a Piority 1 call?

Drewbot · 30th January 2019, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by MikeG

Wrong time of day (late morning as opposed to middle of the night). So, as I said, got any evidence? And do you know this was made a Piority 1 call?

That is one of the richest neighborhoods in Chicago.

Those neighborhoods average far lower response times than the rest of Chicago.

angrysoba · 30th January 2019, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Although it does sound to me like a falsification, I'm trying to imagine what kind of scenario would make him think a story like this is more believable than the truth.

The only thing I can think of is a domestic dispute where he still wants to protect his partner.

This is perhaps one possibility. Otherwise it is pretty insane.

30th January 2019, 05:05 AM	#41
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,940	Sorry if this is behind a paywall. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/a...-attacked.html Quote: On Tuesday night, the police said in a statement that the area where Smollett said the attack occurred had “very high density of city and private surveillance cameras.” Detectives had viewed hundreds of hours of video but “unfortunately, thus far we have not found any helpful information on a suspect or a suspect’s vehicle to be able to share,” the statement said. The police were widening their search to cameras from surrounding areas. Were they ninjas? It just doesn't add up.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

30th January 2019, 05:11 AM	#42
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,174	Originally Posted by Puppycow Sorry if this is behind a paywall. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/a...-attacked.html Were they ninjas? It just doesn't add up. They were indeed ninjas. White ninjas, always prepared. We know that because although they appeared to encounter him unexpectedly ("Aren't you that faggot 'Empire' ******?") they were already wearing ski-masks. Being Trump supporting ninjas they likely wear these ski masks 24/7 (and carry bleach, and a noose) just in case they run into a non-white. It all makes sense, don't question it.
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,174	__________________ "I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill

30th January 2019, 05:11 AM	#43
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 24,802	Originally Posted by Puppycow The latter. I don't think these attackers exist.... Why on earth would a successful person involve himself in something like this as a deliberate fraud? Does your "sniff test" not work the other way too? Mine does, and the idea that someone would risk ruining their career with a stunt like this fails to pass my sniff test. Unless, of course, you've got some evidence. The guy has a broken rib and a bashed face. Therefore someone broke his rib and bashed his face. Either he got someone to do that to him and gave them enough incentive to keep quiet about it........or he was attacked. If he was attacked, there were attackers. The only thing I can see to be questioning of is where this attack took place, because it most certainly had to have happened somewhere.
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. Last edited by MikeG; 30th January 2019 at 05:15 AM.

30th January 2019, 05:12 AM	#44
TofuFighter Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 2,067	Originally Posted by Puppycow The latter. I don't think these attackers exist. So far police have been unable to find any evidence of their existence. That would have to include finding rope, dousing himself with something, and causing at least minor injuries to himself. If this is a hoax, would you agree that it would have to require some degree of planning, and has at least some legal jeopardy attached? To me, that seems much less likely than him having been assaulted by someone, even if the maga angle is just being made up or sensationalised. Is it just, or mainly, the lack of video evidence found of an attacker that makes you think this is a hoax, given the comparative likelihood of each case? or do you think it's more likely that this is a fairly elaborate hoax than an assault? I'm a little confused by your position.
	__________________ "come on. Judas is meeting us at midnight with the getaway donkeys" Last edited by TofuFighter; 30th January 2019 at 05:14 AM.

30th January 2019, 06:04 AM	#45
Hungry81 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,040	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever? Those are the only two schools of skepticism here. yes to all.
Hungry81 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,040	Last edited by Hungry81; 30th January 2019 at 06:06 AM.

30th January 2019, 06:11 AM	#46
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45,106	Best fake hate crime since the synagogue shooting.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

30th January 2019, 06:13 AM	#47
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 15,903	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever? Those are the only two schools of skepticism here. Oh so you're one of those wishy-washy "Middle Grounders" I see.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

30th January 2019, 06:15 AM	#48
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 24,366	Originally Posted by Puppycow The latter. I don't think these attackers exist. So far police have been unable to find any evidence of their existence. Well, that’s not exactly true, is it? Surely the evidence is: That he was injured (aren’t there photographs of him with cuts and swelling on his face?) That he was put in a noose of some kind and showed this to police? That he received some letter through the post a week prior to the attack with similar imagery and a threat? I mean, you can claim that he might be a dedicated ******** artist and produced all the evidence himself for whatever cockamamie motive you imagine, but all of those things would ordinarily be considered evidence, wouldn’t they?
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

30th January 2019, 06:15 AM	#49
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	Listen, if I was a top paid hollywood actor, and I did something dumb, and got beat up in a bar, or fell off of my bike drunk, and dinged up my face before filming, I might make up some story like some racist-homophobes tried to lynch me. Generate sympathy for me, while at the same time not looking like a drunk who fell off a scooter in the middle of the night.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic Last edited by Drewbot; 30th January 2019 at 06:16 AM.

30th January 2019, 06:16 AM	#50
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 19,236	The most questionable thing about this is two white racists recognizing an actor from Empire.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

30th January 2019, 06:17 AM	#51
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 15,903	Alright I'm convinced. Every time a black person is assaulted we need to arrest them for lying.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

30th January 2019, 06:20 AM	#52
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Alright I'm convinced. Every time a black person is assaulted we need to arrest them for lying. Every time a black person makes up a story, in the highest camera-density area of Chicago, about white people attacking them, diminishing an actual claim by someone who is a real victim, we should arrest them for lying.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

30th January 2019, 06:23 AM	#53
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 15,903	Originally Posted by Drewbot Every time a black person makes up a story, in the highest camera-density area of Chicago, about white people attacking them, diminishing an actual claim by someone who is a real victim, we should arrest them for lying. Which according to some people on this board is literally every crime against black people ever. And really this whole "Oh black people... don't you be lying now I might not believe you in the future" would come across as a lot more genuine if there was a chance the usual suspects are ever going to believe a report of a white on black crime isn't just race baiting by those uppity colored folks.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC Last edited by JoeMorgue; 30th January 2019 at 06:27 AM.

30th January 2019, 06:26 AM	#54
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 24,366	Originally Posted by Drewbot Listen, if I was a top paid hollywood actor, and I did something dumb, and got beat up in a bar, or fell off of my bike drunk, and dinged up my face before filming, I might make up some story like some racist-homophobes tried to lynch me. Generate sympathy for me, while at the same time not looking like a drunk who fell off a scooter in the middle of the night. What a brilliant idea! Instead of saying, "I fell off my bicycle while on my morning shop!" write yourself a letter one week in advance and get it posted to yourself, with a postmark, get the police and the press involved by making up some hoax attack, sit back and hope that nobody finds out the holes in your story, or nobody comes forward with mobile phone footage of the fight in the bar and contradicts the fake story you decided to publicize! There's no way that that story that you planned a week in advance could go horribly and predictably wrong... What could be a better idea...for a total idiot?!
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

30th January 2019, 06:27 AM	#55
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Which according to some people on this board is literally every crime against black people ever. And really this whole "Oh black people... don't you be lying now I might not believe you in the future" would come across as a lot more genuine if there was a chance the usual suspects were ever going to believe a report of a white on black crime isn't just race baiting by those uppity colored folks. There are plenty of white on black crimes. But a drunk guy falling off a Lime Scooter, and then making up an attack by white folks is just terrible.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

30th January 2019, 06:29 AM	#56
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 78,250	Originally Posted by Puppycow Well I said it in the other thread, so I'll repeat it here. This one will turn out to be a hoax. Since there is no link here yet, I'll also provide one: Attackers Put Empire Star in Noose: Report What do you mean by hoax? The attack didn't occur? The attackers were passing themselves off as MAGA supporters? What? ETA: Oh I see you answered that earlier this morning.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward Last edited by Belz...; 30th January 2019 at 06:33 AM.

30th January 2019, 06:32 AM	#57
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 78,250	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever? No such thing as the latter, TM. Pick a side!
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

30th January 2019, 06:33 AM	#58
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	Originally Posted by Belz... What do you mean by hoax? The attack didn't occur? The attackers were passing themselves off as MAGA supporters? What? ETA: Oh I see you answered that earlier this morning. The MAGA supporter thing was added by TMZ. Journalistic license.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

30th January 2019, 06:34 AM	#59
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 78,250	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Oh so you're one of those wishy-washy "Middle Grounders" I see. Clearly TM believes in being in the exact middle of every discussion. I have that on good authority.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

30th January 2019, 06:35 AM	#60
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 30,782	Originally Posted by angrysoba What a brilliant idea! Instead of saying, "I fell off my bicycle while on my morning shop!" write yourself a letter one week in advance and get it posted to yourself, with a postmark, get the police and the press involved by making up some hoax attack, sit back and hope that nobody finds out the holes in your story, or nobody comes forward with mobile phone footage of the fight in the bar and contradicts the fake story you decided to publicize! There's no way that that story that you planned a week in advance could go horribly and predictably wrong... What could be a better idea...for a total idiot?! A few years ago, a guy killed his wife and children. He had planned it for some time and had sent himself threatening letters so when he finally did kill them, he thought he'd already created an alibi for himself with the threatening letters. It didn't work in the end, and they proved he was responsible. So the idea of pre sending yourself threatening letters isn't exactly a new one. Personally, I feel the lack of video evidence and the idea he walked around with a noose around his neck for 45 minutes is a bit troubling.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

30th January 2019, 06:42 AM	#61
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	I've been to that part of Chicago, the cops are quick to respond. This wasn't the South Side, this was Streeterville. no way 45 minutes from time of attack to the cops getting there.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

30th January 2019, 06:50 AM	#62
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 24,366	Originally Posted by Mike! A few years ago, a guy killed his wife and children. He had planned it for some time and had sent himself threatening letters so when he finally did kill them, he thought he'd already created an alibi for himself with the threatening letters. It didn't work in the end, and they proved he was responsible. So the idea of pre sending yourself threatening letters isn't exactly a new one. Personally, I feel the lack of video evidence and the idea he walked around with a noose around his neck for 45 minutes is a bit troubling. Yeah, if he was planning to kill his wife and children and needed an alibi. Who the ** plans to do something dumb and get beaten up in a bar or fall off their bike while drunk during filming? It's trivially easy to say you fell off your bike sober. Not so easy to explain a brutally murdered family. Do you see how your comparison makes no *** sense at all? Originally Posted by Drewbot** Listen, if I was a top paid hollywood actor, and I did something dumb, and got beat up in a bar, or fell off of my bike drunk, and dinged up my face before filming, I might make up some story like some racist-homophobes tried to lynch me. Generate sympathy for me, while at the same time not looking like a drunk who fell off a scooter in the middle of the night.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

30th January 2019, 07:00 AM	#63
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,940	Originally Posted by MikeG Why on earth would a successful person involve himself in something like this as a deliberate fraud? Does your "sniff test" not work the other way too? Mine does, and the idea that someone would risk ruining their career with a stunt like this fails to pass my sniff test. That is a good question. Sometimes people take risks that logic says they shouldn't. People aren't always 100% rational. But here's one possible reason: https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ck/2709986002/ Quote: Support for Smollett following the attack began pouring in through social media Tuesday, including from his boss, "Empire" co-creator, Lee Daniels, as well as several of his co-stars and celebrity admirers.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

30th January 2019, 07:02 AM	#64
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 24,802	Originally Posted by Puppycow ....... People aren't always 100% rational........ As your arguments are clearly demonstrating.
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

30th January 2019, 07:03 AM	#65
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,940	Originally Posted by Drewbot I've been to that part of Chicago, the cops are quick to respond. This wasn't the South Side, this was Streeterville. no way 45 minutes from time of attack to the cops getting there. 10 minutes from when his friend called 911. In other words, the 911 call would have been about 35 minutes after the attack.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

30th January 2019, 07:05 AM	#66
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	Originally Posted by angrysoba Yeah, if he was planning to kill his wife and children and needed an alibi. Who the ** plans to do something dumb and get beaten up in a bar or fall off their bike while drunk during filming? It's trivially easy to say you fell off your bike sober. Not so easy to explain a brutally murdered family. Do you see how your comparison makes no ***** sense at all? Hollywood actors get hate mail all the time. I think Jimmy Kimmel does a segment about it. Starts Read Their Own Tweets or something like that. He could have a dozen of those tweets.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

30th January 2019, 07:06 AM	#67
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	Originally Posted by Puppycow That is a good question. Sometimes people take risks that logic says they shouldn't. People aren't always 100% rational. But here's one possible reason: https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ck/2709986002/ Also remember, drugs or mental illness. We've lost too many talented people to suicide or drug overdose, this could be a different manifestation of a similar problem.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

30th January 2019, 07:08 AM	#68
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	https://etcanada.com/news/366767/sha...-on-instagram/ Other celebrities have fallen off of a scooter, they made light of it.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

30th January 2019, 07:12 AM	#69
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 18,863	Hoax
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

30th January 2019, 07:15 AM	#70
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 24,802	Originally Posted by Drewbot Also remember, drugs or mental illness. We've lost too many talented people to suicide or drug overdose, this could be a different manifestation of a similar problem. Honestly? Sheesh. How did a mental illness break his rib? How did it smash his face up? Did it ever cross your mind for a second that there are some honest people on the planet? That someone who claims to have been beaten up and has the injuries to back up that claim, may have actually been beaten up? No?
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

30th January 2019, 07:17 AM	#71
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 24,802	Originally Posted by Drewbot I've been to that part of Chicago, the cops are quick to respond........ How did you test this assertion? Do you have any statistics which support your test results? Did your test of police arrival times take place at the same time of night as this event? Or have you just plucked this crap out of the air?
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

30th January 2019, 07:17 AM	#73
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	Originally Posted by MikeG Honestly? Sheesh. How did a mental illness break his rib? How did it smash his face up? Did it ever cross your mind for a second that there are some honest people on the planet? That someone who claims to have been beaten up and has the injuries to back up that claim, may have actually been beaten up? No? Mental Illness, he gets high, falls off a scooter, decides to make up the story, thinking he can get away with it. Injuries are consistent with a scooter injury, not so much with getting beat up by people who hate you for your skin color.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

30th January 2019, 07:19 AM	#74
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 19,236	Although it does sound to me like a falsification, I'm trying to imagine what kind of scenario would make him think a story like this is more believable than the truth. The only thing I can think of is a domestic dispute where he still wants to protect his partner.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

30th January 2019, 07:22 AM	#75
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 18,863	Smears first. Facts later. How much deader can American journalism get?
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

30th January 2019, 07:30 AM	#76
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	Originally Posted by MikeG How did you test this assertion? Do you have any statistics which support your test results? Did your test of police arrival times take place at the same time of night as this event? Or have you just plucked this crap out of the air? https://www.aclu-il.org/en/press-rel...ices-south-and Quote: For example, in July of 2013, residents in Grand Crossing, a minority neighborhood, waited an average of 11 minutes (10:41) for an officer to be dispatched in response to a Priority 1 call; by contrast, residents in Jefferson Park, a predominantly white neighborhood, had an average wait time of less than 2.5 minutes (2:26). The dispatch time was nearly 4.5 times longer in this minority district.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,819	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic