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Old 1st February 2019, 08:11 PM   #1
fromdownunder
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Interesting Article on Trolling.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-...nting/10767690


Key Points:


Myth: Trolls are alone in their mothers' basements.


Many of them operated in well-organised international syndicates. Trolling has its own culture, language, "lore" and history — most of which is incredibly hard to grasp from the outside.


Myth: Trolls are uneducated losers.


But like many of the harassers I've investigated, the man who appeared to trigger predator trolling against my family and was not ignorant or uneducated. He's married with six children. He previously worked for the Washington Times as assistant national editor.



Myth: Trolling is mindless.


Trolling is a complex behaviour and each of the trolls I have met over many years has been incredibly different from the next. Trolling is a complex behaviour and each of the trolls I have met over many years has been incredibly different from the next.


Myth: Trolls can't hurt you in real life.


(case study about an activist whose dog was poisoned and horse killed)


Myth: Only loud mouthed feminists are trolled.



The survey found 44 per cent of women and 34 per cent of men have experienced one or more forms of online harassment. This is equivalent to 8.8 million Australians experiencing harassment online. Men experience more abusive language for their religion, ethnicity and political beliefs than women. But women report more online abuse in all other categories.


Apart from the "well organised international syndicates", which strikes me as very close to people who believe in gang stalking, the rest of her points seem pretty much on the money. But moving from Mother's basement to an international syndicate for garden variety trolling as mostly seen on BBs or Facebook et all is a huge stretch. In politics, not so much of a stretch.


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Old 1st February 2019, 08:24 PM   #2
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Trolling is a morphed word

It used to mean someone just winding someone up harmlessly for a laugh on normally not particularly controversial subjects.

Then the left seized it, got triggered and now it means jerks on the web bullying and dehumanising.


Sad really

In the early days I saw some extremely funny trolling.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:37 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
It was.

I was on a thread once on another forum and there was guy who posted about how someone had a shopping trolley hit his car, in a carpark

Someone said it was his fault for not parking in the right place and he should have known it would happen.

Obvious from day one it was actual trolling and not online abuse they define it as now, but it went on for about 2 pages.

Bloke with the car at the end was showing signs he might think it was his fault.

Stuff like that
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by zooterkin; 2nd February 2019 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:44 PM   #4
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I backtracked one troll to six accounts on two forums without the ability to get IP address on him.

A retired guy that was just bored and wanted mental exercise. He wasn't very dangerous but did make a few other members go nuts over silly issues.

I rather enjoyed playing cat and mouse with him. He kept me busy hunting his new characters for months.
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
I backtracked one troll to six accounts on two forums without the ability to get IP address on him.

A retired guy that was just bored and wanted mental exercise. He wasn't very dangerous but did make a few other members go nuts over silly issues.

I rather enjoyed playing cat and mouse with him. He kept me busy hunting his new characters for months.
Sounds like he was living rent free inside your head.
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Myth 4: Trolls can't hurt you in real life

One of the most harrowing case studies in my book is that of journalist and activist Sherele Moody, who is subject to relentless trolling as founder of the anti-violence Red Heart Campaign.

Sherele told me her Great Dane Reuben was poisoned with "some sort of acid. The chemical melted the flesh on his mouth, tongue and throat. I was extremely lucky not to lose him."

Sadly, this wasn't the case for her beloved horse, Frank. Sherele received threats saying "the horse had been sent to the glue factory". A few days later Sherele says Frank was found dead in thick scrub.
I think the person in the article is confusing online trolling with stalking and assault, as that is one of the most crappy twisting of definitions I have read in a long time.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st February 2019, 09:01 PM   #7
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He lost me at Internet trolls are all part of an organized trolling syndicate.
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Old 1st February 2019, 09:31 PM   #8
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He lost me at Internet trolls are all part of an organized trolling syndicate.
You finally read it?!
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He lost me at Internet trolls are all part of an organized trolling syndicate.
I think he lost you a couple of words earlier, when he said "Many of them...." before he mentioned the well-organized international syndicate.

Do you actually deny the existence of troll-for-profit/benefit groups. The US government? The Russian, Chinese and Thai governments?
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:20 PM   #10
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I think he lost you a couple of words earlier, when he said "Many of them...." before he mentioned the well-organized international syndicate.

Do you actually deny the existence of troll-for-profit/benefit groups. The US government? The Russian, Chinese and Thai governments?
The point is that is it is pushing it to call them internet trolls.

As they aren't trolling.

It is stretching the meaning of internet trolling to it extremes to say groups and that isn't even pointing out that a troll is an individual taking the ****

It is a bit like how "SJW" was actually created by the left which was like a badge of honour and then turned into a derogatory term.

A bit stupid
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 1st February 2019 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:20 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sounds like he was living rent free inside your head.
We kept each other sharp, and he showed me how to spot others running sock puppets.

It was a one trick pony type of forum subject matter so I welcomed a distraction.

Last edited by 8enotto; 1st February 2019 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:25 PM   #12
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I'd say even some of the recreational ones technically do qualify as an "international, semi-organized trolling syndicate".
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The point is that is it is pushing it to call them internet trolls.

As they aren't trolling.

It is stretching the meaning of internet trolling to it extremes to say groups and that isn't even pointing out that a troll is an individual taking the ****
The meanings of words evolve over time.
Are you mad that the word "meme" no longer primarily means what Dawkins intended it to mean?
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:30 PM   #14
cullennz
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I'd say even some of the recreational ones technically do qualify as an "international, semi-organized trolling syndicate".
Still say that is utter pants, but all good
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:34 PM   #15
cullennz
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The meanings of words evolve over time.
Are you mad that the word "meme" no longer primarily means what Dawkins intended it to mean?
There is evolving and there is manipulating.

But I agree that certain words have been manipulated or evolved to have different meanings
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:40 PM   #16
fromdownunder
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He lost me at Internet trolls are all part of an organized trolling syndicate.

The writer is female.


Norm
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:44 PM   #17
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Was I the only one expecting the link to be a rickroll?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 12:11 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
The writer is female.
Norm
I was wondering how someone could read that article and not know that the writer is a woman.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 12:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The point is that is it is pushing it to call them internet trolls.

As they aren't trolling.

It is stretching the meaning of internet trolling to it extremes to say groups and that isn't even pointing out that a troll is an individual taking the ****

It is a bit like how "SJW" was actually created by the left which was like a badge of honour and then turned into a derogatory term.

A bit stupid
Your resistance to change has long-since failed to astound me. Now, you're going to Humpty Dumpty us and claim that "troll" means only what you want it to mean?

The word has morphed. It didn't even start out as you currently understand it. You want to go by the 90s/00s definition, and that was out-of-date even then.

And the term Social Justice Warrior was created by the left. But it wasn't a badge of honor. It was to make fun of the do-nothings who were adorning themselves with the mantle of Gandhi, Rosa Parks and Mandela because they were courageously drawing moustaches on posters promoting something they disagreed with. Those of us who had real scars from the Civil Rights and Anti-War movements took exception to hyperventilating idiots thinking that speaking up to their Medieval Lute Playing professor put them in Nobel Peace Prize territory. Social Justice is the term you're confusing. One who works towards or steps up for social justice is looked upon favorable. The addition of "warrior" was dripping with sarcasm and followed the prior pejorative "Internet Warrior", a meme you can still find out there.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 12:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Trolling has its own culture, language, "lore" and history —most of which is incredibly hard to grasp from the outside.
I have to disagree with this.

Trolling "culture" and "lore" consists entirely of a shared body of references to jokes that trolls have used in the past which gained notoriety through public exposure. Individual references may be obscure to those unfamiliar with the precise origination; but they are not hard for outsiders to grasp, needing only a summary of the source incident to make things fairly clear (sites like knowyourmeme.com typically provide this service). Trolling does have a common lingo - largely informed by the same "memes" - but aside from that I don't find other characteristics that justify identifying a cohesive "culture". Trolls don't have shared values, goals, politics, target choice, or boundaries that are respected or observed across the landscape.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 01:40 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post

And the term Social Justice Warrior was created by the left. But it wasn't a badge of honor. It was to make fun of the do-nothings who were adorning themselves with the mantle of Gandhi, Rosa Parks and Mandela because they were courageously drawing moustaches on posters promoting something they disagreed with. Those of us who had real scars from the Civil Rights and Anti-War movements took exception to hyperventilating idiots thinking that speaking up to their Medieval Lute Playing professor put them in Nobel Peace Prize territory. Social Justice is the term you're confusing. One who works towards or steps up for social justice is looked upon favorable. The addition of "warrior" was dripping with sarcasm and followed the prior pejorative "Internet Warrior", a meme you can still find out there.
Sorry, but what utter pants
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Sorry, but what utter pants
Yes. I was there for it. We used Social Justice Warrior to mock minimal activist who were just too full of themselves. It has far more direct correlation to "keyboard warrior" and "internet warrior" than it does to the few earlier references. The earlier (rare) usage disappeared from view. A decade later it arose, I believe of its own volition as an internet meme, not print. And the keyboard warrior pejorative was prominent by that time.

Try telling a porn junkie that DP is a baseball abbreviation.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:58 AM   #23
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William Donaldson (Henry Root) must have been one of the the first trolls. I remember reading his book when I was about 12 years old (my parents owned it).

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...y-root-letters
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Old 2nd February 2019, 04:33 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The point is that is it is pushing it to call them internet trolls.

As they aren't trolling.

It is stretching the meaning of internet trolling to it extremes to say groups and that isn't even pointing out that a troll is an individual taking the ****

It is a bit like how "SJW" was actually created by the left which was like a badge of honour and then turned into a derogatory term.

A bit stupid
Look, when something evolves (like internet trolling), two things can happen:

1) A new term is invented for it.

2) The old term evolves with it.

In this case as (I think) in most cases, it was #2.

These days, the old kind of troll is just called a jerk.

Hans
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Old 2nd February 2019, 07:08 AM   #25
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I confess to once having been a troller but I justified it rightly it in my own mind.

In the late 90's a guy wandered into what I then called my home board (think we referred to them then as message boards). Anyway he was one of those end of the world jerks and after a couple of months we managed to run him off without banishment. Over the years I encountered him here and there on other websites. I retired in 06 and my wife was disabled, so I ended up for several years sitting in front of my monitor. His long debunked premise morphed with the times but remained basically the same and as we approached 2012 and the "Mayan prophecy" BS he became more active. And obnoxious. So I let my personal devil take the helm.

At first I just stalked him on such boards as ATS, Godlike Productions, etc. where the Mayan topic was discussed. I registered a different handle at each one to counterpoint his narrative. Sometimes I would eventually inform him as to who I was and he remembered. More often, he would be banned from a board before I could do so. Around 2009, there were many Mayan-themed boards and then the idea hit me. He always used a unique screen name so I found 4 Mayan boards where he had not registered and I registered his screen name and waited. On one of the boards I actually posted some of his usual rubbish and got some sympathizers while others vilified him/me. It wasn't long before he appeared on one of the 4 boards, proving me to be better at some predictions than he was.

The first thing he did was complain to the mods about their board because he had to register his name in upper case thinking it was a technical issue. Then he began his usual posting routine which, by this time, I had become a master at refuting and when I began responding to his threads, mass confusion ensued since we both had the same name except for the case. The mods got involved in nearly every thread we were both in and he complained to them that I should be banned for usurping his name. Other than that, I always followed the rules and was technically respectful plus I merely pointed out that I had the earliest register date and that HE was the imposter. I had some fun with it for a couple of weeks when he was either banned or just quit, can't remember which.

Anyway, I don't do that any more.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 08:08 AM   #26
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Story time!!

Back around 01 or 02, we had just moved to Alaska, and I was home alone with a toddler most of the time. I found a forum similar to this one for some mental exercise when the baby was sleeping or otherwise occupied.

I got in someone's nose about the history of the Israelites, and he decided to torment me for knowing something he didn't. How dare, right??

First he went through every single post I had ever made, going back months, and replied with stuff that would get you at least suspended if not banned from the isf. it got increasingly vile and violent as he went on.

So one of the rooms was to share if you had ebay stuff for sale. This was back when you paid for ebay purchases by mailing an actual check, pre paypal. I had posted a while before that I was selling something, so he went through ebay until he found what I was selling. he made a fake account to bid on it and get my address. He used that to find my phone number.

He started calling all times of the day and night saying really awful stuff about how he was gonna rape me and this that and the other. This was a married 50 something guy who had daughters my age. Frankly, I was terrified.

So after a week or so my then husband took it to his superior officer and shortly thereafter it stopped. I don't know what his CO did but I never went back to that forum, that's for damn sure.

Moral of the story, kids, is that there are some crazy mother ******* out there, and trolls are not always innocently causing trouble for fun. Trolling can easily slide into more serious behaviour.

Personally, I don't understand why you'd want to do that in the first place. Isn't actual discussion more fun?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 09:00 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
I was wondering how someone could read that article and not know that the writer is a woman.
Really? It's a bit dangerous nowadays to be making assumptions about one's gender without actually asking.

It's hard enough to tell just by looking at someone but looking at someone's writing?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 09:43 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think the person in the article is confusing online trolling with stalking and assault, as that is one of the most crappy twisting of definitions I have read in a long time.
Just like nazi meant neo nazi, then racist, then person who is racially insensitive and finally anyone who might do something a minority finds mean. Troll has morphed so that any time someone is winding someone else up they can be branded as doing something reprehensible.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 09:43 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He lost me at Internet trolls are all part of an organized trolling syndicate.
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I think he lost you a couple of words earlier, when he said ....
Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
The writer is female.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 09:46 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Really? It's a bit dangerous nowadays to be making assumptions about one's gender without actually asking.

It's hard enough to tell just by looking at someone but looking at someone's writing?
Yeah, this one was a real mystery.

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Old 2nd February 2019, 07:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If this makes your day, may I suggest just sitting back and listening to John Fahey's early albums, instead.

Who really gives a rat's ass whether the person is male/female/other? Do you have anything to say on the topic or are you merely trying to provide an example?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 08:05 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
If this makes your day, may I suggest just sitting back and listening to John Fahey's early albums, instead.

Who really gives a rat's ass whether the person is male/female/other? Do you have anything to say on the topic or are you merely trying to provide an example?
While I agree in theory, there are situations where knowing the numbers of actual females and males is necessary and even individuals.

The obvious being allocating funds in public health systems to sex orientated diseases like ovarian cancer and universal smear tests and individuals is more crime scenes.

Though I would accept the individual one is a bit of a stretch given the small numbers and other methods like DNA
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Old 2nd February 2019, 08:50 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Really? It's a bit dangerous nowadays to be making assumptions about one's gender without actually asking.

It's hard enough to tell just by looking at someone but looking at someone's writing?
So you also didn't read the article then?

She is quite explicit and the article includes her photo.
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