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Old 5th February 2019, 07:47 PM   #1
Foolmewunz
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Proud Boys Not So Proud of Being a Hate Group

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/05/u...-lawsuit-trnd/

In an unapologetic attempt to keep their name in the national news, The Proud Boys are suing the SPLC.

It's a pretty smart lawsuit. They're going after their lost revenue from being banned from social media.
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Old 5th February 2019, 08:53 PM   #2
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Lol, these guys are so pathetic. A bunch of fascist incel snowflakes.
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Old 5th February 2019, 10:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/05/u...-lawsuit-trnd/

In an unapologetic attempt to keep their name in the national news, The Proud Boys are suing the SPLC.

It's a pretty smart lawsuit. They're going after their lost revenue from being banned from social media.
Triggered snowflakes. And I do mean little white snowflakes.
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Old 5th February 2019, 10:32 PM   #4
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shrugs

Sounds like it's transphobe, violence advocate, and living proof that MAGA folks don't actually care about violent immigrants Gavin McGinnis who is suing them.

Which I find hilarious, because the various means of "leveling up" in the proud boys, such as getting beaten by other members, and being arrested for assault, sound exactly like the initiation rites of the street gang I used to be affiliated with. Seriously, the man should be either imprisoned or deported, for founding a street gang.

Also, as many others have said, discovery's probably going to go very badly for the idiot.
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
shrugs

Sounds like it's transphobe, violence advocate, and living proof that MAGA folks don't actually care about violent immigrants Gavin McGinnis who is suing them.

Which I find hilarious, because the various means of "leveling up" in the proud boys, such as getting beaten by other members, and being arrested for assault, sound exactly like the initiation rites of the street gang I used to be affiliated with. Seriously, the man should be either imprisoned or deported, for founding a street gang.

Also, as many others have said, discovery's probably going to go very badly for the idiot.
The morons should remember what happened to David Irving when he sued Deborah Lipstadt.......
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:58 PM   #6
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Never heard of the Proud Boys. Is that like the Crips or MS-13?
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Never heard of the Proud Boys. Is that like the Crips or MS-13?
They wish. Its worth looking into, they're pretty ridiculous. They apparently take an oath not to masturbate, I assume to avoid losing their precious bodily fluids. Founded by an alt right hipster.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:19 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Never heard of the Proud Boys. Is that like the Crips or MS-13?
I notice how the right wingers are making tuo quoque a way of life.
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Old 6th February 2019, 09:41 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The morons should remember what happened to David Irving when he sued Deborah Lipstadt.......
Just reminded me to finish that Richard Evans book I've shelved for years.
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Old 6th February 2019, 09:59 PM   #10
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Proud boys (proud boys) never lose it
Proud boys (proud boys) never chose this way
Proud boys (proud boys) never close your eyes
Proud boys always shine ...
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Old 6th February 2019, 11:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I notice how the right wingers are making tuo quoque a way of life.
But at the same time...Yeah, being a member of the Proud Boys does fit in with the stereotype perfectly.
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Old 6th February 2019, 11:19 PM   #12
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As someone who hates lawyers, I hope both entities go bankrupt from attorney's fees. The SPLC used to have some credibility.
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Old 6th February 2019, 11:21 PM   #13
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Unfortunately, they'll never be able to live up to the standards set by these guys.
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Old 7th February 2019, 06:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Proud boys (proud boys) never lose it
Proud boys (proud boys) never chose this way
Proud boys (proud boys) never close your eyes
Proud boys always shine ...
Weird coincidence: I listened to that song on the way to work this morning!
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Old 7th February 2019, 06:53 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
Unfortunately, they'll never be able to live up to the standards set by these guys.
I... need to see that movie now.
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Old 7th February 2019, 07:02 AM   #16
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Of course, this was filed in a state without a SLAPP statute, because it is pretty clear this is a losing legal claim that is only meant to cost the SPLC money to defend. Maybe the SPLC will be able to have the venue changed to a state court with SLAPP. Otherwise, this is just suppression of 1A protected speech by way of pointless court costs.

These alt-right losers are so precious, because apparently free speech means that everyone must make themselves available to hear their crap and any criticism is defamation.
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Old 8th February 2019, 04:39 AM   #17
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Falsely labeling people as hate groups is protected Free Speech now? Is that why the splc lost that lawsuit and had to pay?
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Old 8th February 2019, 02:25 PM   #18
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Just so I'm clear, the Proud boys took the red pill?
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Old 8th February 2019, 03:27 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Just so I'm clear, the Proud boys took the red pill?
Well, not really, but they're the type that like to think of themselves that way.
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Old 8th February 2019, 05:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Just reminded me to finish that Richard Evans book I've shelved for years.
Evans was actually a expert witness for Deborah Listadt in the Irving trial.
His three volume History of Nazi Germany will be the standard work on the Third Reich for a long time to come.
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Old 8th February 2019, 06:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Falsely labeling people as hate groups is protected Free Speech now? Is that why the splc lost that lawsuit and had to pay?

The SPLC has a very simple algorithm. Any group with policies to the right of Lenin is, by definition, a hate group.
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Old 8th February 2019, 06:40 PM   #22
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Old 8th February 2019, 07:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Of course, this was filed in a state without a SLAPP statute, because it is pretty clear this is a losing legal claim that is only meant to cost the SPLC money to defend. Maybe the SPLC will be able to have the venue changed to a state court with SLAPP. Otherwise, this is just suppression of 1A protected speech by way of pointless court costs.

These alt-right losers are so precious, because apparently free speech means that everyone must make themselves available to hear their crap and any criticism is defamation.
I have not read the complaint (or anything about it - I plan to listen to a lawyer go through the complaint in his regular podcast about lawsuits) so I was wondering why you think it's clear?
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Old 8th February 2019, 09:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
I have not read the complaint (or anything about it - I plan to listen to a lawyer go through the complaint in his regular podcast about lawsuits) so I was wondering why you think it's clear?
Hopefully, Ken White at PopeHat covers it in a column or podcast. He's quite left of center but also (somewhat paradoxically) a big supporter of the First Amendment so I'm looking forward to his take on it.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:12 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
The SPLC has a very simple algorithm. Any group with policies to the right of Lenin is, by definition, a hate group.
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Old 11th February 2019, 06:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
The SPLC has a very simple algorithm. Any group with policies to the right of Lenin is, by definition, a hate group.
Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Since every political group in the USA is pretty much "right of Lenin", by acclamation you've just claimed that they list the DAR, Green Party, Socialist Democrats, Democratic Socialists, Republican, Libertarian, Democratic and any parties (including the CP of the USA)?

Or was this just a Durr Hurr moment so you folks could figuratively chest-bump each other?
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Old 11th February 2019, 06:30 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
I have not read the complaint (or anything about it - I plan to listen to a lawyer go through the complaint in his regular podcast about lawsuits) so I was wondering why you think it's clear?
Because calling a hate group a hate group is not against the law.
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Old 11th February 2019, 06:38 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
I have not read the complaint (or anything about it - I plan to listen to a lawyer go through the complaint in his regular podcast about lawsuits) so I was wondering why you think it's clear?
Because being labeled a hate group is an opinion and opinions are not defamation.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:18 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Because being labeled a hate group is an opinion and opinions are not defamation.
Ya, but if I can prove that you slapped a label on me to cause me harm, then you might end up losing.

Granted, defamation suites are insanely difficult in the US and I'd say this is just an attempt by the He Man Woman and Immigrant Haters to stir up their supporters for some fund raising with the added benefit of harassing the SPLC.

Odds are, this will get a little attention and they will drop it as soon as the process begins in earnest.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:19 AM   #30
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The SPLC did recently have a case put against them where an individual was listed as being a hate group but were in error. The guy sued and the case was settled out of court. This means there is no precedent.

In the wake of this a bunch of other groups said they planned to sue The SPLC, mostly right-wing Christian groups. I’m not very aware of how many of these cases have been brought up or if it was just hot air.

In the initiating case the SPLC had no real evidence of hate, and admittted error. So any defense would have been weak.

The Proud Boys have a much tougher hill to climb, especially since their leader frequently calls for violence on his podcast and there have been more than a few instances of violence by its members aimed at political targets.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:22 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
They apparently take an oath not to masturbate, I assume to avoid losing their precious bodily fluids.
<giggle> what? They do know that it replenishes, right? They sound like Donald Trump and his ridiculous theory about bodily energy reserves.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:46 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
The SPLC did recently have a case put against them where an individual was listed as being a hate group but were in error. The guy sued and the case was settled out of court. This means there is no precedent.

In the wake of this a bunch of other groups said they planned to sue The SPLC, mostly right-wing Christian groups. I’m not very aware of how many of these cases have been brought up or if it was just hot air.

In the initiating case the SPLC had no real evidence of hate, and admittted error. So any defense would have been weak.

The Proud Boys have a much tougher hill to climb, especially since their leader frequently calls for violence on his podcast and there have been more than a few instances of violence by its members aimed at political targets.
Popehat has a nice writeup of the settlement. I'm inclined to agree with his conclusion that the SPLC would have prevailed if that case had gone to trial, but chose to settle for other reasons. Even though they retracted the original opinion and basically admitted it was an error, I don't think it would be actionable. I get the impression they were embarrassed by the whole thing and were happy for it to just go away. Protecting their own reputation as a pseudo-authoritative body was more important than winning a case on the merits.
https://www.popehat.com/2018/06/18/t...-be-concerned/

My understanding is that pure opinion is protected, even if that opinion is demonstrably idiotic. The SPLC can label anyone a hate group. That's an opinion and not really actionable as defamation.

Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Ya, but if I can prove that you slapped a label on me to cause me harm, then you might end up losing.

Granted, defamation suites are insanely difficult in the US and I'd say this is just an attempt by the He Man Woman and Immigrant Haters to stir up their supporters for some fund raising with the added benefit of harassing the SPLC.

Odds are, this will get a little attention and they will drop it as soon as the process begins in earnest.
It's an opinion based on a series of facts that they disclose. Essentially, they say "Proud boys are bigots because X,Y,Z facts". Whether or not everyone agrees with such a conclusion is immaterial, it's pure opinion and protected speech.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:56 AM   #33
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Hey, I said it is most likely just fund raising and harassment. I was just pointing out asserting an opinion can cause material damage.
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Old 11th February 2019, 09:25 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Because being labeled a hate group is an opinion and opinions are not defamation.
Thanks for clarifying. You're probably right though being a pseudo-authoritative body lends some weight beyond them merely stating opinions and actually making statements of fact.

However, even if there is a small case to be made the little I've seen of the complaint makes me doubt their chances of success.
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Old 11th February 2019, 01:39 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
The SPLC did recently have a case put against them where an individual was listed as being a hate group but were in error. The guy sued and the case was settled out of court. This means there is no precedent.

In the wake of this a bunch of other groups said they planned to sue The SPLC, mostly right-wing Christian groups. Iím not very aware of how many of these cases have been brought up or if it was just hot air.

In the initiating case the SPLC had no real evidence of hate, and admittted error. So any defense would have been weak.

The Proud Boys have a much tougher hill to climb, especially since their leader frequently calls for violence on his podcast and there have been more than a few instances of violence by its members aimed at political targets.
The SPCL is often a little too quick on the trigger, and no doubt most of the people running it lean heavily to the left politically, but it is also one of the few organizations that leans to the left that openly denounces Louis Fraakhan and the NOI as a hate group. Louis the Louse is cut way to much slack by many progressives.
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Old 11th February 2019, 02:36 PM   #36
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Never heard of them.

Just look like another idiot group.

In fact they even seem relatively tame compared to a few.
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Old 11th February 2019, 03:00 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Never heard of them.

Just look like another idiot group.

In fact they even seem relatively tame compared to a few.
Against that, they have some influential supporters

https://www.thedailybeast.com/republ...the-proud-boys
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Old 11th February 2019, 03:21 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Never heard of them.

Just look like another idiot group.

In fact they even seem relatively tame compared to a few.
Tame perhaps - but they came across (to me at least) as always looking all clean cut and preppy like. Almost like they stepped out of the pages of one of those magazines that purports to show young men how to dress and act like gentlemen, GQ and the like

The concern was that they could pull in people who might not have wanted to be associated with the more blatant groups like the Klan or the self-identified Nazis.

I think these were some of the ones who were shocked and horrified when photos from Charleston were used to dox people.
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Old 11th February 2019, 03:26 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
Hopefully, Ken White at PopeHat covers it in a column or podcast. He's quite left of center but also (somewhat paradoxically) a big supporter of the First Amendment so I'm looking forward to his take on it.
First of all, not sure why you assume that being 'left of center' and being a supporter of the first amendment are a paradox. After all, the political right is all for things like censorship of pr0n and restrictions on things like flag burning, things that the left things should be protected speech.

Secondly, this isn't a "first amendment" issue. The first amendment deals only with government actions (what it can and cannot restrict). The SPLC is not a government organization; thus, their actions are not restricted by the first amendment at all.
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:00 PM   #40
shuttlt
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/05/u...-lawsuit-trnd/

In an unapologetic attempt to keep their name in the national news, The Proud Boys are suing the SPLC.

It's a pretty smart lawsuit. They're going after their lost revenue from being banned from social media.
Surely it is Gavin McInnes rather than the Proud Boys that are suing?
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