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Tags court cases , Pakistan incidents

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Old 6th February 2019, 03:11 PM   #1
Ranb
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Fundy Islam vs White Supremacy

A court in Pakistan upheld the acquittal of a woman accused of blasphemy.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...080432309.html
Quote:
Pakistan's Supreme Court has upheld the acquittal of a Christian woman charged with blasphemy, standing by its earlier verdict that sparked days of protests, death threats and nationwide chaos.
Quote:
Blasphemy remains a massively inflammatory issue in Pakistan, where even unproven accusations of insulting Islam can prompt lynchings. Many cases see Muslims accusing Muslims, and rights activists say blasphemy charges are frequently used to settle personal scores.
Lynchings. When a group of people decide that someone does not deserve to live because their behavior is so offensive, for some reason. People like Aasia Bibi or that "uppity" Emmett Till.

But progress of sorts is being made.
Quote:
Judge Khosa said in court that Bibi's accusers were guilty of perjury, and if the case hadn't been so sensitive, they should have been jailed for life.
"The image of Islam we are showing to the world gives me much grief and sorrow," said Khosa.

And in some respects, going down the slippery slope of undoing the progress that took decades to accomplish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dBaaK15NDE

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Old 6th February 2019, 04:02 PM   #2
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If there was ever a "Let's Hope Neither Side Runs Out Of Bullets" situation, this is it.
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Old 6th February 2019, 08:49 PM   #3
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Are we going to get a clue what the point of this thread is supposed to be?

Or just spewing spam for morons from the young Turks?

**** even the leftist leftist think these dopes are dopes.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...reitbart-left/
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Old 6th February 2019, 09:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Are we going to get a clue what the point of this thread is supposed to be?

Or just spewing spam for morons from the young Turks?

**** even the leftist leftist think these dopes are dopes.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...reitbart-left/
Most of the main hosts like Cenk, Ana, and John Iadarola are pretty nuanced for the most part, even if they have to be slapped a couple times with Betteridge's law of headlines for some of their material, and I think their hearts are in the right place.

They are not Breitbart of the left.
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Old 6th February 2019, 09:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Are we going to get a clue what the point of this thread is supposed to be?
It's rare that the clues to the point of my threads are not actually located in the thread title. This thread is not an exception.

Quote:
Or just spewing spam for morons from the young Turks?
I'm not a spammer and I really don't know much about these young Turk guys.
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Old 6th February 2019, 09:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It's rare that the clues to the point of my threads are not actually located in the thread title. This thread is not an exception.


I'm not a spammer and I really don't know much about these young Turk guys.
K.
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Old 6th February 2019, 09:48 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Most of the main hosts like Cenk, Ana, and John Iadarola are pretty nuanced for the most part, even if they have to be slapped a couple times with Betteridge's law of headlines for some of their material, and I think their hearts are in the right place.

They are not Breitbart of the left.
lol
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Old 8th February 2019, 03:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It's rare that the clues to the point of my threads are not actually located in the thread title. This thread is not an exception.
Maybe people are just trying to be generous. It's certainly less damning to speculate you messed up with the thread than you actually believe it's reasonable to compare a guy telling an audience to punch someone who throws a tomato to the industrial scale imprisonment, violence and murder by Muslims of those who dare to criticise their religion (or, in the case you cite, has the audacity to be a Christian whilst offering a drink of water to a Muslim woman). Because one of these options necessitates just messing up, the other mandates a loss of ******* mind.
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Old 8th February 2019, 03:58 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Most of the main hosts like Cenk, Ana, and John Iadarola are pretty nuanced for the most part, even if they have to be slapped a couple times with Betteridge's law of headlines for some of their material, and I think their hearts are in the right place.

They are not Breitbart of the left.
Nuanced! That is funny. Cenk Uygur is not only out of his tree, he's also one of the stupidest people ever to address an audience. He has the IQ of a melon.
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Old 8th February 2019, 04:27 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Nuanced! That is funny. Cenk Uygur is not only out of his tree, he's also one of the stupidest people ever to address an audience. He has the IQ of a melon.
Seems reasonably smart to me, even though I often disagree with him and his politics.
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Old 8th February 2019, 07:16 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Maybe people are just trying to be generous. It's certainly less damning to speculate you messed up with the thread than you actually believe it's reasonable to compare a guy telling an audience to punch someone who throws a tomato to the industrial scale imprisonment, violence and murder by Muslims of those who dare to criticise their religion (or, in the case you cite, has the audacity to be a Christian whilst offering a drink of water to a Muslim woman). Because one of these options necessitates just messing up, the other mandates a loss of ******* mind.
What about the social and political systems which were dedicated to industrial enslavement, violence and murder of people of the wrong color who had the audacity to be human? You seem to be ignoring that remnants of one of our most embarrassing segments of American society that still exists and are desperately hanging on to their zinc statues while the rest of rational society is trying to tear down their racist/terroristic idols.
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Old 8th February 2019, 08:15 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
What about the social and political systems which were dedicated to industrial enslavement, violence and murder of people of the wrong color who had the audacity to be human? You seem to be ignoring that remnants of one of our most embarrassing segments of American society that still exists and are desperately hanging on to their zinc statues while the rest of rational society is trying to tear down their racist/terroristic idols.
I didn't ignore anything. You are the one comparing the punching of tomato-throwers with the murder of people for their religious views. If you wanted to discuss the historic impact of slavery vs punishment for apostasy, assuming you could make a coherent connection (I can't), then why didn't you state that?
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Old 8th February 2019, 09:23 AM   #13
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The point is both groups of people just want to deny basic human dignity to people they don't like. While some American members of this forum are all up in arms about muslim antics that largely happen overseas, it seems they're completely blind to the people who want to deny rights to others based on their skin color.
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:02 AM   #14
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They aren't blind to it. They use it as an excuse.

"Why do you get so up in arms about the transsexual ban in the military when [Country X] is still stoning gays?"

As if "nominally better than theocratic despots" is a high enough bar.
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:21 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The point is both groups of people just want to deny basic human dignity to people they don't like. While some American members of this forum are all up in arms about muslim antics that largely happen overseas, it seems they're completely blind to the people who want to deny rights to others based on their skin color.
Denying rights can range from refusing a refund for a rotten apple to genocide of an entire people. Failing to distinguish between the various severities only serves to weaken your point, assuming you have one.

Perhaps someone will be along with another example I can use.

Oh, that was quick...

Originally Posted by Donal View Post
They aren't blind to it. They use it as an excuse.

"Why do you get so up in arms about the transsexual ban in the military when [Country X] is still stoning gays?"

As if "nominally better than theocratic despots" is a high enough bar.
Here we have a poster who believes that legislating against a transsexual joining the military is, in terms of human rights, only 'nominally better' than murdering a homosexual by caving his head in with a rock.

This is the kind of swivel-eyed thinking that sees women marching in protest against billboards that show cleavage when in the next street a 3 year old girl is forcibly held down and her genitals mutilated in the name of religion.
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:30 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
.... when in the next street a 3 year old girl is forcibly held down and her genitals mutilated in the name of religion.
Where did this happen?
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Where did this happen?
You're asking where FGM happens in the West?
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:35 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Where did this happen?
In the next street, seemingly.
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:49 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
You're asking where FGM happens in the West?
No. I'm asking if you made up the claim that a 3 year old girl was forcibly held down and her genitals mutilated in the name of religion.

From your first link;
Quote:
However, there are no acceptable reasons that justify FGM. It's a harmful practice that isn't required by any religion and there are no religious texts that say it should be done.
And your 2nd link;
Quote:
Prevalence rates vary according to geography and ethnic group, not religion, and sometimes differ along national lines within the same ethnicity
It seems you don't believe your own claim and are trying to bull **** us.
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:56 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
No. I'm asking if you made up the claim that a 3 year old girl was forcibly held down and her genitals mutilated in the name of religion.
That's what FGM is! Jesus, no wonder you equate throwing tomatoes to mass murder if your reading comprehension is that poor.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
From your first link;


And your 2nd link;


It seems you don't believe your own claim and are trying to bull **** us.
Oh, so as long as it's not done in the name of religion (and it is) it's OK, is it? I guess it pales into insignificance compared to those tomato throwers.

Quote:
There is a widespread view among practitioners of female genital mutilation (FGM) that it is a religious requirement.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:05 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's what FGM is! Jesus, no wonder you equate throwing tomatoes to mass murder if your reading comprehension is that poor.
You're being evasive. I know what FGM is and I'm not equating tomatoes and murder. I was questioning if you made up a claim or actually had knowledge of it happening. Seeing how quick you are to evade and make up more crap, it's obvious you are making it up.

Quote:
Oh, so as long as it's not done in the name of religion (and it is) it's OK, is it? I guess it pales into insignificance compared to those tomato throwers.
You're the only one here suggesting FGM is okay. Perhaps you should start your own thread to promote it.

If you're going to promote the idea that FGM is okay according to some religious views, then you're going to need something better than Wikipedia. I'd like to see the religious texts you claim are allowing it.

Last edited by Ranb; 8th February 2019 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:14 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You're being evasive. I know what FGM is and I'm not equating tomatoes and murder. I was questioning if you made up a claim or actually had knowledge of it happening.
Of course it ******* happens, what are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You're the only one here suggesting FGM is okay. Perhaps you should start your own thread to promote it.
Are you desperate that nobody should take you seriously? If so I applaud your efforts.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
If you're going to promote the idea that FGM is okay according to some religious views, then you're going to need something better than Wikipedia. I'd like to see the religious texts you claim are allowing it.
In that case I suggest an education. Come back when you're able to talk a modicum of sense on the topic, and watch out for those tomatoes.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Of course it ******* happens, what are you talking about?
I don't believe you. Show me evidence to support the claim in post #15 that "....in the next street a 3 year old girl is forcibly held down and her genitals mutilated in the name of religion."

You're not an expert on religion just because you say so; or are the people here supposed to be stupid enough to fall for that too?.

Last edited by Ranb; 8th February 2019 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:48 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The point is both groups of people just want to deny basic human dignity to people they don't like. While some American members of this forum are all up in arms about muslim antics that largely happen overseas, it seems they're completely blind to the people who want to deny rights to others based on their skin color.
Hence my devout hope that they end up destroying each other.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:52 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I don't believe you. Show me evidence to support the claim in post #15 that "....in the next street a 3 year old girl is forcibly held down and her genitals mutilated in the name of religion."

You're not an expert on religion just because you say so; or are the people here supposed to be stupid enough to fall for that too?.
The poster in question has certainly demonstrated his ignorance of Islam on many occasions.
No one hates Islamic Fundamantalism when it turns to violence more then I do; but to paint all Muslims as either extremists or enablers is sheer bigotry.
The poster in question is using a basic tactic of bigotry;picking out a few nutjobs and saying that is what "X" is really like.
And when it comes to religious fanaticism, Christians have no business pointing the finger at anybody considering their history.
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Last edited by dudalb; 8th February 2019 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 8th February 2019, 12:38 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I don't believe you. Show me evidence to support the claim in post #15 that "....in the next street a 3 year old girl is forcibly held down and her genitals mutilated in the name of religion."
Good Christ, this is painful.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You're not an expert on religion just because you say so; or are the people here supposed to be stupid enough to fall for that too?.
Says the guy who starts a thread comparing the death penalty to punching someone who throws a tomato.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The poster in question has certainly demonstrated his ignorance of Islam on many occasions.
Oooh, hoist that handbag! Can't beat a bit of passive-aggressive snipery in place of debate.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
No one hates Islamic Fundamantalism when it turns to violence more then I do
Priceless.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
but to paint all Muslims as either extremists or enablers is sheer bigotry.
And no doubt you're going to quote one post where I do this. Just one, from 8000, in your own time.

No, I didn't think so.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The poster in question is using a basic tactic of bigotry;picking out a few nutjobs and saying that is what "X" is really like.
Oooh, 'the poster in question', goodness me!

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And when it comes to religious fanaticism, Christians have no business pointing the finger at anybody considering their history.
That's more like it, back to your usual whataboutism in an effort to divert attention from Islamic barbarity. You left it a bit late this time, normally you're in at post number two.
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Old 8th February 2019, 01:30 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Good Christ, this is painful.
It should be painful for you, got caught making a claim you don't want to support.

Quote:
Says the guy who starts a thread comparing the death penalty to punching someone who throws a tomato.
I was comparing people who support lynching in the USA and Pakistan. You're the one with the tomatoes in his face.
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Old 8th February 2019, 01:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It should be painful for you, got caught making a claim you don't want to support.
I'm sorry you can't distinguish between figurative and literal speech, what can I say?

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I was comparing people who support lynching in the USA and Pakistan. You're the one with the tomatoes in his face.
Who supports lynching in the USA? And where is your link to the evidence for this support?
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Old 8th February 2019, 01:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I'm sorry you can't distinguish between figurative and literal speech, what can I say?
This just more backpedaling.

Quote:
Who supports lynching in the USA? And where is your link to the evidence for this support?
You know who Emmett Till was? He was lynched. He was a victim of the white supremacy movement that still exists today and so eagerly supports politicians like Trump.

You keep trying to convince me that you're clueless, you should stop.
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Old 8th February 2019, 02:02 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
This just more backpedaling.
The fact you don't believe FGM happens says it all. Don't embarrass yourself further, on this topic at least.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You know who Emmett Till was? He was lynched. He was a victim of the white supremacy movement that still exists today and so eagerly supports politicians like Trump.
Let me try again.

You said:

"I was comparing people who support lynching in the USA"

I asked:

"Who supports lynching in the USA?"

Will you now go ahead and answer that question and post your evidence instead of waffling about something that happened over 60 years ago.

When you've done that we can skip the bit about why you couldn't be bothered to include it in your OP, preferring to talk about tomatoes, and go straight to the question of how a handful of lunatics in the US (should they exist at all) is remotely comparable to an ideology and structure of government that oversees hundreds of millions of people in which citizens are routinely imprisoned for life, tortured and murdered for offending religion.
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Old 8th February 2019, 02:06 PM   #31
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Oh hey guys what's going on on in this thre-

- Never mind. I'm out.
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Old 8th February 2019, 04:12 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The fact you don't believe FGM happens says it all. Don't embarrass yourself further, on this topic at least.
I do believe it happens. Just because I don't buy your opinions on the matter doesn't mean I don't think it happens.

You think white supremacy isn't a thing anymore? Tell that to all of the tiki torch wielding idiots who marched for the neo-nazi cause.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The point is both groups of people just want to deny basic human dignity to people they don't like. While some American members of this forum are all up in arms about muslim antics that largely happen overseas, it seems they're completely blind to the people who want to deny rights to others based on their skin color.
9 11 happened overseas?
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Old 9th February 2019, 03:59 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I do believe it happens. Just because I don't buy your opinions on the matter doesn't mean I don't think it happens.
What opinions of mine about FGM do you not buy?

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You think white supremacy isn't a thing anymore? Tell that to all of the tiki torch wielding idiots who marched for the neo-nazi cause.
When you started this thread, did you think, "I have a point to make and will illustrate it with some examples", or did you just patch together some random stories and start from there?

What is your point about white supremacy? Are these the tomato-thrower beaters? Do they go around lynching people, and is this lynching part of US law? Or are you comparing the opinions of people you don't like with the wholesale subjugation, torture and murder enacted by multiple governments and cultures in the Muslim world?

If you're concerned with the US government trampling on people's rights, how about starting here and protesting that you don't want to live in a country where the wilful mutilation of little girls' genitals by religious lunatics is perfectly legal.

And whilst you're at it, let's have some figures of the Muslim 'antics' that 'largely happen overseas' (for now we'll leave out why atrocities 'overseas' are worse than domestic ones in the first place). Would some of those 'antics' include 1% of the US population being responsible for around 99.5% of the US terrorism fatalities and injuries in the US in the past 20 years, or a full 50% since 9/11?
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Old 9th February 2019, 10:41 AM   #35
Ranb
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
What opinions of mine about FGM do you not buy?
I don't believe there is anything I can say about FGM that you will not mock even if I produce video of a child being butchered in the street. You made a claim then waffled about it before eventually backpedaling to your "figuratively" claim. How can anyone have a discussion on this topic with you when act this way? I'm done with it for now unless you come to your senses.

Quote:
When you started this thread,.....
It was that white supremacy is bad, as it any racial supremacy crap. It was that simple but for some reason you got all hurt over it.

Some of the same people who want to take care of American problems before assisting the world are the same who would try to create more problems by calling themselves the master race in the USA.

Your suggestion that white supremacists "should they exist at all" has got to be, outside of flat earth claims, one of the more stupid claims I've read on this forum. I can debate about stupid things that are tangible, but debating your stupid ideas is something I'd rather not waste my time on right now.

Last edited by Ranb; 9th February 2019 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 9th February 2019, 11:05 AM   #36
baron
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I don't believe there is anything I can say about FGM that you will not mock even if I produce video of a child being butchered in the street.
Mockery is the appropriate response to everything you have posted so far in this thread, especially when you respond to a reasonable question with yet more nonsense, so you could well be right.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You made a claim then waffled about it before eventually backpedaling to your "figuratively" claim. How can anyone have a discussion on this topic with you when act this way? I'm done with it for now unless you come to your senses.
Oop, flouncy flouncy.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It was that white supremacy is bad, as it any racial supremacy crap.
So there you go, the purpose of this thread is to state 'White supremacy is bad.' Very incisive, some real philosophical dilemma for true thinkers to get their mind around.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Some of the same people who want to take care of American problems before assisting the world are the same who would try to create more problems by calling themselves the master race in the USA.

Your suggestion that white supremacists "should they exist at all" has got to be, outside of flat earth claims, one of the more stupid claims I've read on this forum.
I see you're having trouble with your own arguments. I stated, very clearly, that the group I was referring to was the group defined by you, that being white supremacists who support lynching in the US.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I can debate about stupid things that are tangible, but debating your stupid ideas is something I'd rather not waste my time on right now.
Number one on my list would be that reading comprehension class.

The. Worst. Thread. Ever.
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Old 9th February 2019, 11:49 AM   #37
jimbob
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The poster in question has certainly demonstrated his ignorance of Islam on many occasions.
No one hates Islamic Fundamantalism when it turns to violence more then I do; but to paint all Muslims as either extremists or enablers is sheer bigotry.
The poster in question is using a basic tactic of bigotry;picking out a few nutjobs and saying that is what "X" is really like.
And when it comes to religious fanaticism, Christians have no business pointing the finger at anybody considering their history.
Yes.

It's almost as though it's the fundamentalism part that is the problem.

I probably know equal numbers of devout Muslims and Christians, but the only fundamentalists I know are Christians and they hold some scary beliefs.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 9th February 2019, 05:49 PM   #38
RolandRat
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes.

It's almost as though it's the fundamentalism part that is the problem.

I probably know equal numbers of devout Muslims and Christians, but the only fundamentalists I know are Christians and they hold some scary beliefs.
You're missing the point, you have to think of the children! Specifically, the three year old child being held down in the next street and and and well..
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:15 AM   #39
baron
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
You're missing the point, you have to think of the children! Specifically, the three year old child being held down in the next street and and and well..
Good to hear you're open about your support for the practice. Most people would keep that sort of thing to themselves.

Quote:
In 2016, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released a report compiled with data from 2010-2013. The CDC report estimated 513,000 girls and women in the United States were either victims of FGM or at risk of FGM, with ⅓ under age 18.[18] The marked increase in the number of girls and women at risk of FGM in the United States was attributed to an increase in the total number of immigrants from countries where FGM is most common...[19]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female..._United_States
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:52 AM   #40
RolandRat
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Good to hear you're open about your support for the practice. Most people would keep that sort of thing to themselves.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female..._United_States
Your breathless hyperbole is always a source of amusement. Please don't stop.
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