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Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 6th September 2019, 01:33 PM   #2321
Bob001
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
See how easy it is to discuss just how ****** up Trump is without invoking medicine? I mean you guys figured all that out on your own! You also seem to recognize that heís always been this way.

So Iím really not sure what value we get from dragging a respectable field like psychiatry/psychology into political debates.
Motivation matters. If somebody lies because he thinks he can gain by it, that's different from displaying the accelerating deterioration that results from a psychiatric disorder. And the evidence complied by board-certified psychiatrists overwhelmingly supports the assessment (not "diagnosis") that Trump is severely mentally disturbed, putting all of us at risk.
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Old 6th September 2019, 03:14 PM   #2322
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
See how easy it is to discuss just how ****** up Trump is without invoking medicine? I mean you guys figured all that out on your own! You also seem to recognize that heís always been this way.

So Iím really not sure what value we get from dragging a respectable field like psychiatry/psychology into political debates.
Sour grapes?

Who cares if one can see he has a serious disorder without the medical side of the discussion?

It's not like the two discussions are mutually exclusive.

By the same token, who cares (except you of course) if you prefer one discussion over the other?
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Old 6th September 2019, 03:17 PM   #2323
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
...

It's not stupidity as much as it is anger. Trump is an angry man.
TBF, it's a complex mix of issues/emotions in addition to anger.
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Old 6th September 2019, 04:47 PM   #2324
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's the behavior of a young child who tells a ridiculous lie then becomes furious at being doubted. They throw a tantrum because now they're angry at being disbelieved, and not sufficiently rational to understand that tantrums won't make the original lie believable.

It's not stupidity as much as it is anger. Trump is an angry man.
Trump also displays several symptoms of someone with a victim complex:

Quote:
In clinical psychology, a ďvictim complexĒ or ďvictim mentalityĒ describes a personality trait of persons who believe they are constantly the victims of the harmful actions of others, even when made aware of evidence to the contrary.
Quote:
Some common traits of persons with a victim complex include:

They refuse to accept responsibility for dealing with their problems.
They never accept any degree of blame for their problems.
They always find reasons why suggested solutions will not work.
They carry grudges, never forgive, and simply cannot ďmove on.Ē
They are rarely assertive and find it hard to express their needs.
They believe everyone is ďout to get themĒ and thus trust no one.
They are negative and pessimistic, always looking for the bad even in the good.
They are often highly critical of others and rarely enjoy lasting friendships.
https://www.thoughtco.com/victim-complex-4160276
About the only symptom Trump does not check is the 5th one (rarely assertive) and perhaps the third one. Perhaps.
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Old 6th September 2019, 05:08 PM   #2325
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This is a very interesting article discussing the narcissistic paranoid personality. It contains a checklist of the 80 traits of the paranoid narcissist. If the person meets 60 of them, he is most likely a paranoid narcissist. Trump checks off almost all of them.Out of the first 40 alone, he checks off all but four. The few he doesn't were concerned with interpersonal relationships that only those who deal with him on a personal level would be able to ascertain.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...oid-narcissist

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Old 6th September 2019, 05:53 PM   #2326
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
The extrapolation idea would run better if the map he used had been at least almost current.
Alabama and Bahamas use most of the same letters.
A hereby proclamation that all the letters actually are the same would have taken care of this issue.
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Old 6th September 2019, 05:56 PM   #2327
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Motivation matters. If somebody lies because he thinks he can gain by it, that's different from displaying the accelerating deterioration that results from a psychiatric disorder. And the evidence complied by board-certified psychiatrists overwhelmingly supports the assessment (not "diagnosis") that Trump is severely mentally disturbed, putting all of us at risk.


Medically speaking, an assessment is a synonym for a diagnosis. In a SOAP note, diagnosis is in the Assessment section. When board-certified psychiatrists give a professional opinion about their assessment of the mental state of someone, they are diagnosing. In this case, very specifically. So it really doesnít help to obfuscate what they are doing in order to skirt the ethical issues.

But the larger point is that most of us can see Trumpís behavior and make our own assessments. Our assessments, as voters, are what counts. I see two major problems with dragging medicine into politics (beyond the well-trodden ethical/standards arguments) :

1)Lay people are in no position to evaluate the accuracy of medical opinions so it would be difficult for them to know which opinion is valid and which is biased. In the end, we end up with a group of voters whose biases are confirmed, another group who reject the medical opinion and all the other voters who donít know what to make of it either way. So whatís the end value of such opinions? Zero.

2)Medicine should be apolitical. When it tries to set itself up as an arbiter of good political candidates, itís subject to abuse. The profession shouldnít allow itself to be in a position to have its integrity questioned.
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Old 6th September 2019, 05:59 PM   #2328
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Sour grapes?



Who cares if one can see he has a serious disorder without the medical side of the discussion?



It's not like the two discussions are mutually exclusive.



By the same token, who cares (except you of course) if you prefer one discussion over the other?


Anyone who values the integrity of the medical profession. Thatís who.
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Old 6th September 2019, 06:02 PM   #2329
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I repeat, I do not know if Trump is clinically mentally ill or not, but the Alabama incident shows he is too mentally unstable and self obsessed to be trusted with the office of the president.
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Old 6th September 2019, 06:05 PM   #2330
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I repeat, I do not know if Trump is clinically mentally ill or not, but the Alabama incident shows he is too mentally unstable and self obsessed to be trusted with the office of the president.


Perfectly fair. Thatís your call to make as a voter.
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Old 6th September 2019, 06:15 PM   #2331
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Medically speaking, an assessment is a synonym for a diagnosis. In a SOAP note, diagnosis is in the Assessment section. When board-certified psychiatrists give a professional opinion about their assessment of the mental state of someone, they are diagnosing. In this case, very specifically. So it really doesnít help to obfuscate what they are doing in order to skirt the ethical issues.

But the larger point is that most of us can see Trumpís behavior and make our own assessments. Our assessments, as voters, are what counts. I see two major problems with dragging medicine into politics (beyond the well-trodden ethical/standards arguments) :

1)Lay people are in no position to evaluate the accuracy of medical opinions so it would be difficult for them to know which opinion is valid and which is biased. In the end, we end up with a group of voters whose biases are confirmed, another group who reject the medical opinion and all the other voters who donít know what to make of it either way. So whatís the end value of such opinions? Zero.

2)Medicine should be apolitical. When it tries to set itself up as an arbiter of good political candidates, itís subject to abuse. The profession shouldnít allow itself to be in a position to have its integrity questioned.
Give it a rest. The one lay person spouting the most knowledge above his pay-grade is you. We've been over this.

You don't have much of a case that the reason professionals are saying Trump has NPD is political given the overwhelming evidence he actually is.
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Old 6th September 2019, 06:21 PM   #2332
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
See how easy it is to discuss just how ****** up Trump is without invoking medicine? I mean you guys figured all that out on your own! You also seem to recognize that heís always been this way.

So Iím really not sure what value we get from dragging a respectable field like psychiatry/psychology into political debates.
They've very specifically said they were not giving a diagnosis, rather they see themselves and the profession having a duty to warn. That's it.


Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Medically speaking, an assessment is a synonym for a diagnosis. In a SOAP note, diagnosis is in the Assessment section. When board-certified psychiatrists give a professional opinion about their assessment of the mental state of someone, they are diagnosing. In this case, very specifically. So it really doesnít help to obfuscate what they are doing in order to skirt the ethical issues.
Disagree; an assessment is gathering evidence with which to make a diagnosis. Besides, so what that some form has a certain layout?
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Old 6th September 2019, 06:22 PM   #2333
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump also displays several symptoms of someone with a victim complex:


https://www.thoughtco.com/victim-complex-4160276
About the only symptom Trump does not check is the 5th one (rarely assertive) and perhaps the third one. Perhaps.
It depends how you look at it. He certainly puts on an act of being assertive. But the way he constantly flips and flounders isn't very assertive.
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Old 6th September 2019, 06:52 PM   #2334
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It depends how you look at it. He certainly puts on an act of being assertive. But the way he constantly flips and flounders isn't very assertive.
Nah... I think he's overly assertive but his flipping and floundering is because he can't keep track of his own lies or keep a train of thought for more than 30 seconds.
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Old 6th September 2019, 07:56 PM   #2335
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Perfectly fair. Thatís your call to make as a voter.
It should be the call of his Cabinet, too.
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Old 6th September 2019, 08:30 PM   #2336
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post

1)Lay people are in no position to evaluate the accuracy of medical opinions so it would be difficult for them to know which opinion is valid and which is biased. In the end, we end up with a group of voters whose biases are confirmed, another group who reject the medical opinion and all the other voters who donít know what to make of it either way. So whatís the end value of such opinions? Zero.
Lay people are equally "in no position" to evaluate the accuracy of claims about trade policies, the effects of minimum wage increases, the threat posed by countries like Syria to US national security, etc and so on.

And yet, conflicting expert opinions are routinely broadcast.

How is the mental health of the president different?

Quote:
2)Medicine should be apolitical. When it tries to set itself up as an arbiter of good political candidates, itís subject to abuse. The profession shouldnít allow itself to be in a position to have its integrity questioned.
Economics should be apolitical.
National security should be apolitical.
Climate science should be apolitical.

Etc and so on.

Again, I'm not seeing what's so special about medicine, other than the USSR's history of political abuse with psychiatry.
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Old 6th September 2019, 09:03 PM   #2337
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Lay people are equally "in no position" to evaluate the accuracy of claims about trade policies, the effects of minimum wage increases, the threat posed by countries like Syria to US national security, etc and so on.
Nonsense. Anyone can study these matters and become an expert.

It's the same with psychiatric diagnoses. There are a lot of ways to become expert in a subject.

That doesn't mean everyone claiming to have expertise does.
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Old 6th September 2019, 09:14 PM   #2338
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Nonsense. Anyone can study these matters and become an expert.

It's the same with psychiatric diagnoses. There are a lot of ways to become expert in a subject.

That doesn't mean everyone claiming to have expertise does.
I was just meaning, to whatever extent a lay person "is in no position" to notice that Donald Trump meets the diagnostic criteria for NPD, we're "in no position" to "evaluate the accuracy" of claims about macroeconomics, foreign policy, etc and so on.

There's no reason for Trump's personality disorder to be uniquely "above" lay people evaluating expert claims compared to any other thing.
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Old 6th September 2019, 11:40 PM   #2339
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
See how easy it is to discuss just how ****** up Trump is without invoking medicine? I mean you guys figured all that out on your own! You also seem to recognize that heís always been this way.

So Iím really not sure what value we get from dragging a respectable field like psychiatry/psychology into political debates.
Well, some of us who believe that Donald Trump's mental state is a perfectly valid subject for a political debate also believe that people who know what they are talking about should be allowed to participate. Is this the only topic where you think experts should keep their mouths shut?

You seem to have convinced yourself that the Yale group shouldn't be allowed to offer their professional opinion, therefore there is no reason to worry that they may be right that Trump is dangerous. You are concerned that the Yale group might somehow damage the reputation of their profession yet completely unconcerned that a mentally ill President can do considerably more damage than that.

So I'm really not sure what value your opinion has in this political debate.
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Old 7th September 2019, 04:19 AM   #2340
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Nah... I think he's overly assertive but his flipping and floundering is because he can't keep track of his own lies or keep a train of thought for more than 30 seconds.
I'd he actually assertive? Think of the accounts of how he doesn't sack people, he gets other people to do so, he can't face the people he is sacking. His attitude is belligerent at least in public but I would say he doesnt demonstrate assertiveness.
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Old 7th September 2019, 08:16 AM   #2341
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'd he actually assertive? ... His attitude is belligerent at least in public but I would say he doesnt demonstrate assertiveness.
Buckled to the NRA twice. Kim is "Little Rocket Man" until Trump meets him and then they're in love or something. So many examples of all bluster and no balls.
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Old 7th September 2019, 10:02 AM   #2342
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Give it a rest. The one lay person spouting the most knowledge above his pay-grade is you. We've been over this.
Am I wrong? No? Ah then, a bit of well-poisoning is in order, I guess.



Quote:
You don't have much of a case that the reason professionals are saying Trump has NPD is political given the overwhelming evidence he actually is.
I have a case that 1)speaking out is unethical, 2) When people act unethically it could be due to bias, 3)Laypeople are in no position to know if the professionalsí opinions are due to political bias or real scientific assessment, and most importantly 4)Laypeople donít need unethical opinions when they are perfectly capable of observing Trumpís behavior and reaching their own conclusions -just as we all (all of us laypeople) have done throughout this thread. Therefore, there is no compelling reason to have breached ethics in the first place.

In the end, the voters will decide and their decisions will overwhelmingly be made by direct observation and evaluation of Trump for themselves.

Now you may disagree with me and thatís fine. I disagree with your ďcaseĒ but I donít think you donít have a case in the first place. What I think is that the consequences of your arguments would be bad for society and medicine.
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Old 7th September 2019, 10:37 AM   #2343
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
They've very specifically said they were not giving a diagnosis, rather they see themselves and the profession having a duty to warn. That's it.
They have very specifically said he has malignant narcissism and that makes him dangerous which is what invokes a duty to warn.

And letís explore that duty to warn further. It applies when a professional has a patient and the professional has specific information about imminent harm the patient may cause. Trump is not their patient; they have no specific information. Therefore, there is no real duty to warn because they canít lay out a specific threat to specific people posed by a patient which is the legal standard of when a ďduty to warnĒ overrides ethical duties to maintain patient confidentiality.

Whatís happening here is that they are exercising their 1st Amendment right to speak out -and thereís no doubt that they have such a right. But exercising the 1st amendment right to speak does not negate the ethical concerns. And since a ďduty to warnĒ clearly does not apply in this case they canít use that to override the ethical concerns. We are left with unethical behavior.



Quote:
Disagree; an assessment is gathering evidence with which to make a diagnosis. Besides, so what that some form has a certain layout?
Itís not ďsome form,Ē itís the basis of medical documentation. The evidence gathering is documented in the Subjective (patientís description of the problem)and Objective (results of physical exam, diagnostic test results, etc)sections. The Assessment is the clinicianís opinion on the appropriate diagnosis based on all evidence gathered to date -itís where the DSM/ICD 10 codes would go.

You are using ďassessmentĒ in a more general sense as the whole process but it has a more specific medical definition.
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Old 7th September 2019, 11:11 AM   #2344
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Lay people are equally "in no position" to evaluate the accuracy of claims about trade policies, the effects of minimum wage increases, the threat posed by countries like Syria to US national security, etc and so on.
And much like the mental state of the Prez, laypeople can form their own opinions about such things even if they are uninformed.



Quote:
And yet, conflicting expert opinions are routinely broadcast.



How is the mental health of the president different?
The things you gave examples of are all political subjects where every opinion is equally valid depending on oneís political point of view and end goal. Experts will disagree because they have different outlooks and goals.

Clinical Medicine is not like that. Medicine is a science and even more than that, medicine is very personal. We value medical privacy, accuracy and doctors who treat their patients without bias according to the evidence. Therefore, the profession establishes standards of practice and ethics. A proper medical evaluation carried out by one doctor according to those standards and ethics should largely agree with other doctorsí assessments. When a doctor misses something he should have caught, we punish that doctor monetarily, professionally and sometimes even criminally.

There is no room for doctors arguing with each other publicly about a certain patientís diagnosis.



Quote:
Economics should be apolitical.

National security should be apolitical.
I disagree. Those subjects are inextricably intertwined with politics because their application is dependent on oneís point of view and end goal.

Quote:
Climate science should be apolitical.
I agree in the sense that the scientists who work in that field should do good science no matter where it leads. I disagree in the sense that what we do about the results of climate science are up for political debate.



Quote:
Etc and so on.



Again, I'm not seeing what's so special about medicine, other than the USSR's history of political abuse with psychiatry.
Well, I think that very kind of abuse is exactly what makes medicine different when used toward political goals. To avoid that kind of abuse, Clinical Medicine should stay out of politics.
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Old 7th September 2019, 11:13 AM   #2345
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You have posted this before. Answers addressing your errors have been posted. Trump displays his NDP like the band playing on.
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Old 7th September 2019, 11:20 AM   #2346
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Nonsense. Anyone can study these matters and become an expert.
I think itís more accurate to say that anyone can have an opinion on those matters whether or not they are an expert.



Quote:
It's the same with psychiatric diagnoses. There are a lot of ways to become expert in a subject.
Really? Youíve made it very clear that I canít possibly be an expert because I donít have the training. You canít have it both ways.

Anyway, it isnít a matter of expertise; no one has denied that the Yale group are experts in their fields. The argument is about the proper application of that expertise.



Quote:
That doesn't mean everyone claiming to have expertise does.
This is why we shouldnít worry about the bare claim to expertise but rather on the content of the argument and the application of the subject of expertise.
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Old 7th September 2019, 11:40 AM   #2347
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Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness', say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 2

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Well, some of us who believe that Donald Trump's mental state is a perfectly valid subject for a political debate also believe that people who know what they are talking about should be allowed to participate. Is this the only topic where you think experts should keep their mouths shut?
As Iíve said, I think Medicine is a profession that relies on standards and ethics in order ensure that bias is not allowed to corrupt it. Such corruption would have bad outcomes for the profession and the patients that rely on the profession.

As citizens and laypeople, I have no problem debating a politicianís mental state. Doctors, especially those who havenít treated the politician personally, should stay out of it in order to avoid corrupting the integrity of the profession.



Quote:
You seem to have convinced yourself that the Yale group shouldn't be allowed to offer their professional opinion,
Wrong. My position is that they canít have a professional opinion in the first place, not having followed the standards and ethics of their profession. I have no problem with them expressing their opinion without putting on their white coats.
Quote:
therefore there is no reason to worry that they may be right that Trump is dangerous. You are concerned that the Yale group might somehow damage the reputation of their profession yet completely unconcerned that a mentally ill President can do considerably more damage than that.



So I'm really not sure what value your opinion has in this political debate.
It has exactly as much value as yours.

I am concerned about the damage that Trump can do. Thatís why I didnít and wonít vote for him. But that damage potential is based on my own observations, point of view and political end goals. Before you ever heard of the Yale group, did you think it was possible that Trump could be a decent president? Iíd wager you thought he would be dangerous way before you heard some expert tell you that.

I think itís an unnecessary corruption of the integrity of the profession. So do the organizations that represent the profession. Iím not sure why you are ok with it but you are entitled to your opinion. I am here arguing for my position just as you are.
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Old 7th September 2019, 11:56 AM   #2348
kellyb
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The things you gave examples of are all political subjects where every opinion is equally valid depending on one’s political point of view and end goal. Experts will disagree because they have different outlooks and goals.
No. The view that "because of how economies work, quantitative easing will cause hyperinflation" is just false. Period. Not "equally valid" with the "No, it won't" position. Just flat out wrong.

The position that "climate change is a hoax" is not "equally valid" with the "It's real" position.

This whole idea that "every opinion is equally valid" is horrifying nonsense. It sets us up for...people like Donald Trump. It's part of what Hannah Ardent was talking about when she said:

“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.”
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Old 7th September 2019, 11:58 AM   #2349
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Quote:
Quote:
Is this the only topic where you think experts should keep their mouths shut?
As I’ve said, I think Medicine is a profession that relies on standards and ethics in order ensure that bias is not allowed to corrupt it. Such corruption would have bad outcomes for the profession and the patients that rely on the profession.

As citizens and laypeople, I have no problem debating a politician’s mental state. Doctors, especially those who haven’t treated the politician personally, should stay out of it in order to avoid corrupting the integrity of the profession.
Is that a lot of words to just say "Yes"?
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Old 7th September 2019, 12:02 PM   #2350
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
...
Really? Youíve made it very clear that I canít possibly be an expert because I donít have the training. You canít have it both ways. ...
I think you missed something in translation.

One could through years of study become a competent-in-the-topic* lay person.

You haven't done that, you just read a couple position papers on the internet.


*Not to be confused with fully functioning practitioner.
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Old 7th September 2019, 12:12 PM   #2351
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'd he actually assertive? Think of the accounts of how he doesn't sack people, he gets other people to do so, he can't face the people he is sacking. His attitude is belligerent at least in public but I would say he doesnt demonstrate assertiveness.
Really? Remember The Apprentice where his tag line was literally "You're fired!"?
Passing on the dirty job of firing someone isn't not being assertive. It's being a dick.

Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Buckled to the NRA twice. Kim is "Little Rocket Man" until Trump meets him and then they're in love or something. So many examples of all bluster and no balls.
He didn't buckle to the NRA because he backed down from something he really wanted. He never wanted gun background checks in the first place; that would piss off his base. He was merely mouthing what he thinks was the proper lip service in the aftermath of a mass shooting.

He didn't back down to Kim, either...he was just manipulated by Kim who knew that flattering and praising him was the best course of action.

Look at Trump's continued tariff war with China. Despite it harming our economy, he continues ramping it up. Look at his continued effort to build his stupid wall by taking money away from much need military infrastructure funds, etc. No, he's assertive and not in a good way.
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Old 7th September 2019, 12:29 PM   #2352
xjx388
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Is that a lot of words to just say "Yes"?
No. Just trying to be brief and stay on topic.
Lawyers and Law Enforcement are two areas I would lump in with Medicine for sure for similar reasons. But that is neither here nor there.

Do you not think that Medicine should be subject to stricter rules of ethics and adherence to standards than most other fields?
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Old 7th September 2019, 12:34 PM   #2353
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I think you missed something in translation.



One could through years of study become a competent-in-the-topic* lay person.



You haven't done that, you just read a couple position papers on the internet.





*Not to be confused with fully functioning practitioner.


Ok. How do you know I havenít done that? Maybe, just maybe, Iíve taken a lot of upper level courses in psychology, done tons of reading on the subject but I just never got an actual degree.

Anyway, all thatís irrelevant because not once have I relied on my own expertise here. Thatís just your attempt to poison the well.
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Old 7th September 2019, 12:51 PM   #2354
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
No. The view that "because of how economies work, quantitative easing will cause hyperinflation" is just false. Period. Not "equally valid" with the "No, it won't" position. Just flat out wrong.
See, thatís debatable. Just look at the ongoing debate amongst experts. Even then, itís an opinion whether or not to employ that strategy as opposed to others.

Quote:
The position that "climate change is a hoax" is not "equally valid" with the "It's real" position.
Correct and I said that. What is subject to opinion is what to do about it.

Quote:
This whole idea that "every opinion is equally valid" is horrifying nonsense. It sets us up for...people like Donald Trump. It's part of what Hannah Ardent was talking about when she said:

ďThe ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.Ē
Opinion isnít about true and false. A society where there are valid opinions and invalid opinions is the totalitarian society.
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Old 7th September 2019, 12:58 PM   #2355
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Ok. How do you know I havenít done that? Maybe, just maybe, Iíve taken a lot of upper level courses in psychology, done tons of reading on the subject but I just never got an actual degree...
59 pages of exchange on the topic reveals a lot about people.



As for Trump's assertiveness, I think people are on to something that he defers firing to other people. He also goes with the opinion of the guys in the room.
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Old 7th September 2019, 01:05 PM   #2356
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The hurricane stuff sounds almost like gaslighting his own supporters. Seeing how far he can drag them into his seeming delusions. Holding his cabinet hostage in a spiral of fantasies.

Are psychiatrists really scientists on the level of other specializations? Look at psychiatry's origins. Does Freud retain any credibility? The whole concept of "mental" illness seems squishy to me. Is there really some bright line between mental and physical? Or is mental illness just something that is invoked when we don't understand what's going on? Comparing Trump now to Trump 20 years ago, I think he's suffered physical brain damage. He confabulates. His memory is shot. I think neurology and his pre-existing personality are enough to explain his deficits. We're probably never going to find out more than that.
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Old 7th September 2019, 01:05 PM   #2357
xjx388
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
59 pages of exchange on the topic reveals a lot about people.
It does. Which is why I say none of us in this thread are experts.
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Old 7th September 2019, 01:38 PM   #2358
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post

As for Trump's assertiveness, I think people are on to something that he defers firing to other people. He also goes with the opinion of the guys in the room.
Quote:
Contrary to his public persona, Trump does not enjoy firing people, several allies and advisers said.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-hiring-235281

Assertiveness has nothing to do with not enjoying firing people.

What's the norm for a president firing someone? Do they do it in person or let an underling do it? According to the WAPO:
Quote:
Presidents often outsource the unseemly business of firing people to their chief of staff
AIUI, that is who handles most of the firings for Trump.
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Old 7th September 2019, 03:24 PM   #2359
xjx388
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-hiring-235281



Assertiveness has nothing to do with not enjoying firing people.



What's the norm for a president firing someone? Do they do it in person or let an underling do it? According to the WAPO:





AIUI, that is who handles most of the firings for Trump.


Most owners of businesses donít directly do the hiring and firing unless they also act as the managers of their businesses. I hire and fire people for the owners of the business I work for. Firing is always unpleasant and you can do it assertively or unassertively.

In any case, this has nothing to do with whether or not Trump is ďdangerously mentally ill.Ē
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Old 7th September 2019, 03:45 PM   #2360
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
The hurricane stuff sounds almost like gaslighting his own supporters. Seeing how far he can drag them into his seeming delusions. Holding his cabinet hostage in a spiral of fantasies.

Are psychiatrists really scientists on the level of other specializations? Look at psychiatry's origins. Does Freud retain any credibility? The whole concept of "mental" illness seems squishy to me. Is there really some bright line between mental and physical? Or is mental illness just something that is invoked when we don't understand what's going on? Comparing Trump now to Trump 20 years ago, I think he's suffered physical brain damage. He confabulates. His memory is shot. I think neurology and his pre-existing personality are enough to explain his deficits. We're probably never going to find out more than that.
I don't know about in the EU, I heard Freud was still a thing there. Over here, no, not at all other than a bizarre historical episode. No one buys Carl Jung's dream nonsense either.

Psychiatric research is a big thing, the branch of medicine is just as much into evidence based practice as any. One difference is that psychiatry had a much later start in the evidence based medicine practice that other areas. And there probably are more than a few older hangers on that should have retired already.
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