The Rise of Hitler and The Age of Trump: A Comparison - Page 6

Regnad Kcin · 8th June 2021, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I long for the day when the only time I hear the name Benghazi is in books and discussions of World War Two in North Africa.

Casablanca is enjoying a laugh at your expense.

Stacyhs · 8th June 2021, 10:22 AM

In his interview yesterday with Anderson Cooper, former Pres. Obama said:

Quote:

"We have to worry when one of our major political parties is willing to embrace a way of thinking about our democracy that would be unrecognizable and unacceptable even five years ago or a decade ago."

Quote:

"My hope is that the tides will turn," Obama said of our current political moment. "But that does require each of us to understand that this experiment in democracy is not self-executing. It doesn't happen just automatically."

Quote:

All of us as citizens have to recognize that the path towards an undemocratic America is not gonna happen in just one bang," Barack Obama said in an arresting interview with Anderson Cooper on Monday night. It happens "in a series of steps," Obama said, citing the devolution of places like Hungary and Poland.

Quote:

The degradation of US democratic standards and the corruption of the political system looks familiar to one of Obama's closest White House aides.

Ben Rhodes, a former deputy national security adviser, just published a new book "After the Fall" that examines the slide into autocracy in nations like Russia and Hungary. He noted that the latter's leader, Viktor Orban, had orchestrated a right-wing populist backlash to the financial crisis, packed the courts with conservative justices and redrawn legislative districts and laws to benefit his voters. Orban also enriched cronies and weaponized a propagandistic media machine while wrapping the entire push in a nationalist bow.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/media...ces/index.html

"I'm thinking this sounds like a familiar playbook, it's what I've lived at home," Rhodes told CNN's Bianna Golodryga on CNN International on Monday, referring to Trump's 2016 campaign and presidency.

"On January 6, we learned it can happen here too."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/polit...acy/index.html

Anyone who doesn't think our democracy here is in danger by the current GOP is being willfully blind. They have already bent the knee to and kissed the ring of a wannabe authoritarian. They are truly deplorable.

dudalb · 8th June 2021, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin

Casablanca is enjoying a laugh at your expense.

Benghazi was the sight of Much more fighting then Casablanca, it changed hands so often that the Brits made jokes about 'the Benghazi Stakes" since both sides often raced for Benghazi.
It was also the site of one of the LRDG/SAS most famous raids;a raid on the Benghazi airbase a major Luftwaffe base and did major damage.

dudalb · 8th June 2021, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

In his interview yesterday with Anderson Cooper, former Pres. Obama said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/polit...acy/index.html

Anyone who doesn't think our democracy here is in danger by the current GOP is being willfully blind. They have already bent the knee to and kissed the ring of a wannabe authoritarian. They are truly deplorable.

What concerns me more ia that many who realise this seem unwilling to take the steps necessary to stop it. you won't stop them by joining hands and singing 'Kumbaya". You need to get tough and kick them in the balls, frankly. sorry, but that is the reality.

Stacyhs · 8th June 2021, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

What concerns me more ia that many who realise this seem unwilling to take the steps necessary to stop it. you won't stop them by joining hands and singing 'Kumbaya". You need to get tough and kick them in the balls, frankly. sorry, but that is the reality.

What do you suggest?

gregthehammer · 8th June 2021, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

What do you suggest?

Kick them in the balls. Literally.

dudalb · 8th June 2021, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

What do you suggest?

Play just a hardball as they are. Give up on the bipartisan idea, isnce that is dead for the time being.

dudalb · 8th June 2021, 01:21 PM

Speaking of the return of Nazis, a photo and trailer makes it clear that the Nazis are the villians again in Indiana Jones 5....

Belz... · 8th June 2021, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Speaking of the return of Nazis, a photo and trailer makes it clear that the Nazis are the villians again in Indiana Jones 5....

I hate these guys...

JoeMorgue · 8th June 2021, 01:37 PM

Well because Nazis are the only bad guys we're allowed anymore. Any other group, even groups that did stuff just as bad, will have someone get butt hurt if you use them the same way.

Stacyhs · 8th June 2021, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Play just a hardball as they are. Give up on the bipartisan idea, isnce that is dead for the time being.

I agree somewhat. There are things that simply are not going to get done due to obstruction by the GOP. Executive actions will have to be used where they can. But since the Senate is 50-50 and it's difficult to get all 50 Dems to agree on anything, just what hardball tactics do you think are going to work on the 25 GOP senators?

Stacyhs · 8th June 2021, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Well because Nazis are the only bad guys we're allowed anymore. Any other group, even groups that did stuff just as bad, will have someone get butt hurt if you use them the same way.

There's always the commiesocialist libr'als. That would play great in the South and Midwest.

dudalb · 8th June 2021, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Belz...

I hate these guys...

BTW, Indy's use of that pharase in "Last Crusade" is a direct tip of the hat to "The Blues Brothers". Sort of a return for Spielberg's cameo in Brothers. (He is the clerk at the Cook Counry Assesors Office".

dudalb · 8th June 2021, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Well because Nazis are the only bad guys we're allowed anymore. Any other group, even groups that did stuff just as bad, will have someone get butt hurt if you use them the same way.

And let's face it, Indy fighting Commies and Aliens in Indy 4 just was not as much fun

dudalb · 8th June 2021, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

There's always the commiesocialist libr'als. That would play great in the South and Midwest.

Given the record of Communism, I have no problem making Commies the villians.............

Frankly, the knee jerk reaction of some progressive to defend and/or excuse Communisms horrid record is a major problem for them.

Stacyhs · 8th June 2021, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

And let's face it, Indy fighting Commies and Aliens in Indy 4 just was not as much fun

And the Russians' uniforms are not nearly as snazzy.

Venom · 8th June 2021, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Given the record of Communism, I have no problem making Commies the villians.............

Frankly, the knee jerk reaction of some progressive to defend and/or excuse Communisms horrid record is a major problem for them.

There's enough of that mindless new Red Scare in 2021 between Fox News, Breitbart, and all the little independent "conservative" media outlets that we can recognize that Marxism isn't a legitimate threat today. It may have been in my grandpa and fathers' days. Young edgy conservative voices like Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson are trying hard to revive it as if it's relevant.

dudalb · 8th June 2021, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

There's enough of that mindless new Red Scare in 2021 between Fox News, Breitbart, and all the little independent "conservative" media outlets that we can recognize that Marxism isn't a legitimate threat today. It may have been in my grandpa and fathers' days. Young edgy conservative voices like Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson are trying hard to revive it as if it's relevant.

I agree, but ,still, it is not a good look for some progressive to basically defend and excuse Communism. Just admit it was a horrid system, prove that more moderate forms of socialism are totally different, and move on.
And there are a few hard line Marxist out there, and they are getting pretty loud on some mainstream forums.

Stacyhs · 8th June 2021, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

There's enough of that mindless new Red Scare in 2021 between Fox News, Breitbart, and all the little independent "conservative" media outlets that we can recognize that Marxism isn't a legitimate threat today. It may have been in my grandpa and fathers' days. Young edgy conservative voices like Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson are trying hard to revive it as if it's relevant.

That's because most Trumpers don't know the difference between Communism and Democratic Socialism.

Venom · 8th June 2021, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I agree, but ,still, it is not a good look for some progressive to basically defend and excuse Communism. Just admit it was a horrid system, prove that more moderate forms of socialism are totally different, and move on.
And there are a few hard line Marxist out there, and they are getting pretty loud on some mainstream forums.

Sure I agree with this. But I think the main point of contention on this topic is the popular attitude that Marxism is as bad as Nazism. The latter is explicitly authoritarian, genocidal, imperialistic, and espouses eugenics, inequality, and ethno-nationalism.

At least communist thought, though naive and disastrous in practice, was born out of an interest in constructing a more just society for the poor and working class. That's a "defense of communism" to the extent that we can point out important differences in the ultimate goals of the two ideologies.

Belz... · 8th June 2021, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

BTW, Indy's use of that pharase in "Last Crusade" is a direct tip of the hat to "The Blues Brothers". Sort of a return for Spielberg's cameo in Brothers. (He is the clerk at the Cook Counry Assesors Office".

I did not know that.

Originally Posted by dudalb

And let's face it, Indy fighting Commies and Aliens in Indy 4 just was not as much fun

I don't think the lack of fun had anything to do with commies and aliens. It was just a mediocre script.

SuburbanTurkey · 9th June 2021, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

That's because most Trumpers don't know the difference between Communism and Democratic Socialism.

Trumpers don't know the difference between Communism and mild social democracy.

Belz... · 9th June 2021, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Trumpers don't know the difference between Communism and mild social democracy.

Trumpsters don't know the difference between communism and a cup of coffee.

ponderingturtle · 9th June 2021, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I agree, but ,still, it is not a good look for some progressive to basically defend and excuse Communism. Just admit it was a horrid system, prove that more moderate forms of socialism are totally different, and move on.
And there are a few hard line Marxist out there, and they are getting pretty loud on some mainstream forums.

Yea now capitalism we have to thank for the Belgian Congo but fortunately no one holds a few million dead blacks against.

Foster Zygote · 9th June 2021, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Trumpsters don't know the difference between communism and a cup of coffee.

[MAGA hat]Cup of joe - Uncle Joe... Coincidence ? I think Not .!.[/MAGA hat]

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2021, 07:37 AM

The difference between Communism and Nazism is you can mentioned Nazism on the internet without a liberal screeching that "Real Nazism hasn't been tried yet!"

Enough of my liberal friends are at least cozy to the idea of communism that I'm comfortable saying there's some bedfellows there.

Belz... · 9th June 2021, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Enough of my liberal friends are at least cozy to the idea of communism that I'm comfortable saying there's some bedfellows there.

Well, yeah, just like the right-wing and fascism venn diagram has an area in common. Communism is a left-wing ideology, so it's no surprise.

Bob001 · 9th June 2021, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

.....
Enough of my liberal friends are at least cozy to the idea of communism that I'm comfortable saying there's some bedfellows there.

What's your idea of "communism?" The right-wing contends that Social Security and Medicare, let alone universal health care and affordable college, smack of "communism," but that doesn't make it so.

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2021, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

What's your idea of "communism?" The right-wing contends that Social Security and Medicare, let alone universal health care and affordable college, smack of "communism," but that doesn't make it so.

Let me put it this way.

No less then a dozen of my liberal friends; good smart people, shared a meme within the last week that read "We were told Communism is bad by the same people who told us segregation was good."

I know every discussion is going to get drawn back to the "Socialism/Communism" thing because there is no argument that you can make that will drag the internet away from splitting a pedantic hair.

Communism is still bad. The fact that we had a Red Scare doesn't make Communism good. The fact that the right can't tell the difference between Communism and a hole in the ground does not make Communism good.

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less.

Bob001 · 9th June 2021, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Let me put it this way.

No less then a dozen of my liberal friends; good smart people, shared a meme within the last week that read "We were told Communism is bad by the same people who told us segregation was good."

I know every discussion is going to get drawn back to the "Socialism/Communism" thing because there is no argument that you can make that will drag the internet away from splitting a pedantic hair.

Communism is still bad. The fact that we had a Red Scare doesn't make Communism good. The fact that the right can't tell the difference between Communism and a hole in the ground does not make Communism good.

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less.

That doesn't answer the question. Communism is the word for brutal totalitarian regimes like Stalinist Russia or Maoist China or today's North Korea. It just has nothing to do with socialist democracies like Sweden or Denmark that share resources across the society. You can't claim that they have anything in common.

Cainkane1 · 9th June 2021, 08:23 AM

Trump was nothing like Hitler. During his lifetime he won awards for hiring the most black workers. None of his rhetoric is racist. He was interested in keeping jobs in American and bringing jobs back that had gone to foreign countries.

Nobodies perfect but overall he was a good President.

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2021, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

That doesn't answer the question. Communism is the word for brutal totalitarian regimes like Stalinist Russia or Maoist China or today's North Korea. It just has nothing to do with socialist democracies like Sweden or Denmark that share resources across the society. You can't claim that they have anything in common.

Are you talking to me or a generic advisory that exists in your head?

I made no comparison to socialism. I didn't even bring it up.

"LOL people don't know the difference between communism and socalism" isn't a valid response to anyone not liking communism.

ponderingturtle · 9th June 2021, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The difference between Communism and Nazism is you can mentioned Nazism on the internet without a liberal screeching that "Real Nazism hasn't been tried yet!"

Enough of my liberal friends are at least cozy to the idea of communism that I'm comfortable saying there's some bedfellows there.

Well for one thing communism is an economic system while fascism is a political system. So it would be more sensible to compare it to capitalism, and people are fine with the 18 million dead Africans from just King Leopold's actions so that can't really be counted against capitalism. They were worthless blacks after all.

ponderingturtle · 9th June 2021, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Let me put it this way.

No less then a dozen of my liberal friends; good smart people, shared a meme within the last week that read "We were told Communism is bad by the same people who told us segregation was good."

I know every discussion is going to get drawn back to the "Socialism/Communism" thing because there is no argument that you can make that will drag the internet away from splitting a pedantic hair.

Communism is still bad. The fact that we had a Red Scare doesn't make Communism good. The fact that the right can't tell the difference between Communism and a hole in the ground does not make Communism good.

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less.

And of course capitalism can never be held accountable for its deaths, because that would be wrong. That is why we have to ignore all those and pretend they were naturally associated with progress.

Now bring back hand chopping off to motivate your workers, it worked for Leopold and Columbus and no one seriously thinks they were monsters of some sort.

Bob001 · 9th June 2021, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Are you talking to me or a generic advisory that exists in your head?

I made no comparison to socialism. I didn't even bring it up.
....

From your post:

Quote:

I know every discussion is going to get drawn back to the "Socialism/Communism" thing because there is no argument that you can make that will drag the internet away from splitting a pedantic hair.

Sounds to me like you don't appreciate the difference.

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2021, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Sounds to me like you don't appreciate the difference.

Okay this is like the cliff of a Bob-hole here so I'm going to be very, very clear.

Look me in the eyes. Do you understand that someone can "appreciate the difference" between something and still dislike both of them?

Do you understand that someone can dislike both communism and socialism, and not just think they are the same thing?

Don't say anything but yes or no.

Stacyhs · 9th June 2021, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

Trump was nothing like Hitler. During his lifetime he won awards for hiring the most black workers.

Trump was awarded the Ellis Island Medal of Honor in 1986. The irony burns. However:

Quote:

Trump was one of 87 people to be honored with the Ellis Island Medal of Honor in 1986 for his successful work as a developer in New York City, not for his work within the black community.

Trump was part of the first group of Americans to be given the award, which recognized people hailing from a variety of ethnic backgrounds who made significant contributions to the country, Otto Coca, communications director for the Ellis Island Honors Society, told The Associated Press last year.

Trump was honored because of his German heritage and his work as a developer.

https://apnews.com/article/archive-f...ing-6348420521

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

None of his rhetoric is racist.

Quote:

He was interested in keeping jobs in American and bringing jobs back that had gone to foreign countries.

So was Obama and so is Biden.

Quote:

Nobodies perfect but overall he was a good President.

There aren't enough laughing dog emojis in the world.........

Belz... · 9th June 2021, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

That doesn't answer the question. Communism is the word for brutal totalitarian regimes like Stalinist Russia or Maoist China or today's North Korea. It just has nothing to do with socialist democracies like Sweden or Denmark that share resources across the society. You can't claim that they have anything in common.

They have quite a bit in common, but communism takes the idea so far that it's unfeasible within the human context, regardless of the totalitarian implementation. That doesn't mean that socialism is bad, just like the idea of drowning doesn't make water bad.

ahhell · 9th June 2021, 10:11 AM

Meh.
In 1930, Germany had been a united country for about 60 years and a republic for about 10. Trump has no real ideology other than self aggrandizement, unless you want to compare the Art of the Deal to Mien Kampf.

Comparisons to Hitler and the NAZIs are still facile and obscure more than they enlighten.

Edit to add, Its clear many on the right don't know the difference between communism and their own ********, this thread shows that many on the left don't know the difference between fascism and their own ********. Which, was the case when Orwell said as much in the 40s.

ahhell · 9th June 2021, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

And of course capitalism can never be held accountable for its deaths, because that would be wrong. That is why we have to ignore all those and pretend they were naturally associated with progress.

Now bring back hand chopping off to motivate your workers, it worked for Leopold and Columbus and no one seriously thinks they were monsters of some sort.

How exactly is that capitalism?

8th June 2021, 09:47 AM	#201
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 10,591	Originally Posted by dudalb I long for the day when the only time I hear the name Benghazi is in books and discussions of World War Two in North Africa. Casablanca is enjoying a laugh at your expense.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

8th June 2021, 11:55 AM	#203
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,476	Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin Casablanca is enjoying a laugh at your expense. Benghazi was the sight of Much more fighting then Casablanca, it changed hands so often that the Brits made jokes about 'the Benghazi Stakes" since both sides often raced for Benghazi. It was also the site of one of the LRDG/SAS most famous raids;a raid on the Benghazi airbase a major Luftwaffe base and did major damage.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th June 2021, 11:57 AM	#204
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,476	Originally Posted by Stacyhs In his interview yesterday with Anderson Cooper, former Pres. Obama said: https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/polit...acy/index.html Anyone who doesn't think our democracy here is in danger by the current GOP is being willfully blind. They have already bent the knee to and kissed the ring of a wannabe authoritarian. They are truly deplorable. What concerns me more ia that many who realise this seem unwilling to take the steps necessary to stop it. you won't stop them by joining hands and singing 'Kumbaya". You need to get tough and kick them in the balls, frankly. sorry, but that is the reality.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th June 2021, 01:10 PM	#206
gregthehammer Muse Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 798	Originally Posted by Stacyhs What do you suggest? Kick them in the balls. Literally.
gregthehammer Muse Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 798

8th June 2021, 01:19 PM	#207
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,476	Originally Posted by Stacyhs What do you suggest? Play just a hardball as they are. Give up on the bipartisan idea, isnce that is dead for the time being.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th June 2021, 10:22 AM	#202
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,232	In his interview yesterday with Anderson Cooper, former Pres. Obama said: Quote: "We have to worry when one of our major political parties is willing to embrace a way of thinking about our democracy that would be unrecognizable and unacceptable even five years ago or a decade ago." Quote: "My hope is that the tides will turn," Obama said of our current political moment. "But that does require each of us to understand that this experiment in democracy is not self-executing. It doesn't happen just automatically." Quote: All of us as citizens have to recognize that the path towards an undemocratic America is not gonna happen in just one bang," Barack Obama said in an arresting interview with Anderson Cooper on Monday night. It happens "in a series of steps," Obama said, citing the devolution of places like Hungary and Poland. Quote: The degradation of US democratic standards and the corruption of the political system looks familiar to one of Obama's closest White House aides. Ben Rhodes, a former deputy national security adviser, just published a new book "After the Fall" that examines the slide into autocracy in nations like Russia and Hungary. He noted that the latter's leader, Viktor Orban, had orchestrated a right-wing populist backlash to the financial crisis, packed the courts with conservative justices and redrawn legislative districts and laws to benefit his voters. Orban also enriched cronies and weaponized a propagandistic media machine while wrapping the entire push in a nationalist bow. https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/media...ces/index.html "I'm thinking this sounds like a familiar playbook, it's what I've lived at home," Rhodes told CNN's Bianna Golodryga on CNN International on Monday, referring to Trump's 2016 campaign and presidency. "On January 6, we learned it can happen here too." https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/polit...acy/index.html Anyone who doesn't think our democracy here is in danger by the current GOP is being willfully blind. They have already bent the knee to and kissed the ring of a wannabe authoritarian. They are truly deplorable.

8th June 2021, 12:00 PM	#205
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,232	Originally Posted by dudalb What concerns me more ia that many who realise this seem unwilling to take the steps necessary to stop it. you won't stop them by joining hands and singing 'Kumbaya". You need to get tough and kick them in the balls, frankly. sorry, but that is the reality. What do you suggest?

8th June 2021, 01:21 PM	#208
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,476	Speaking of the return of Nazis, a photo and trailer makes it clear that the Nazis are the villians again in Indiana Jones 5....
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th June 2021, 01:36 PM	#209
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by dudalb Speaking of the return of Nazis, a photo and trailer makes it clear that the Nazis are the villians again in Indiana Jones 5.... I hate these guys...
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

8th June 2021, 01:37 PM	#210
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 39,963	Well because Nazis are the only bad guys we're allowed anymore. Any other group, even groups that did stuff just as bad, will have someone get butt hurt if you use them the same way.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

8th June 2021, 03:59 PM	#211
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,232	Originally Posted by dudalb Play just a hardball as they are. Give up on the bipartisan idea, isnce that is dead for the time being. I agree somewhat. There are things that simply are not going to get done due to obstruction by the GOP. Executive actions will have to be used where they can. But since the Senate is 50-50 and it's difficult to get all 50 Dems to agree on anything, just what hardball tactics do you think are going to work on the 25 GOP senators?

8th June 2021, 04:01 PM	#212
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,232	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Well because Nazis are the only bad guys we're allowed anymore. Any other group, even groups that did stuff just as bad, will have someone get butt hurt if you use them the same way. There's always the commiesocialist libr'als. That would play great in the South and Midwest.

8th June 2021, 04:05 PM	#213
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,476	Originally Posted by Belz... I hate these guys... BTW, Indy's use of that pharase in "Last Crusade" is a direct tip of the hat to "The Blues Brothers". Sort of a return for Spielberg's cameo in Brothers. (He is the clerk at the Cook Counry Assesors Office".
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th June 2021, 04:06 PM	#214
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,476	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Well because Nazis are the only bad guys we're allowed anymore. Any other group, even groups that did stuff just as bad, will have someone get butt hurt if you use them the same way. And let's face it, Indy fighting Commies and Aliens in Indy 4 just was not as much fun
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th June 2021, 04:08 PM	#215
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,476	Originally Posted by Stacyhs There's always the commiesocialist libr'als. That would play great in the South and Midwest. Given the record of Communism, I have no problem making Commies the villians............. Frankly, the knee jerk reaction of some progressive to defend and/or excuse Communisms horrid record is a major problem for them.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th June 2021, 04:12 PM	#216
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,232	Originally Posted by dudalb And let's face it, Indy fighting Commies and Aliens in Indy 4 just was not as much fun And the Russians' uniforms are not nearly as snazzy.

8th June 2021, 04:27 PM	#217
Venom Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 5,842	Originally Posted by dudalb Given the record of Communism, I have no problem making Commies the villians............. Frankly, the knee jerk reaction of some progressive to defend and/or excuse Communisms horrid record is a major problem for them. There's enough of that mindless new Red Scare in 2021 between Fox News, Breitbart, and all the little independent "conservative" media outlets that we can recognize that Marxism isn't a legitimate threat today. It may have been in my grandpa and fathers' days. Young edgy conservative voices like Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson are trying hard to revive it as if it's relevant.

8th June 2021, 04:31 PM	#218
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,476	Originally Posted by Venom There's enough of that mindless new Red Scare in 2021 between Fox News, Breitbart, and all the little independent "conservative" media outlets that we can recognize that Marxism isn't a legitimate threat today. It may have been in my grandpa and fathers' days. Young edgy conservative voices like Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson are trying hard to revive it as if it's relevant. I agree, but ,still, it is not a good look for some progressive to basically defend and excuse Communism. Just admit it was a horrid system, prove that more moderate forms of socialism are totally different, and move on. And there are a few hard line Marxist out there, and they are getting pretty loud on some mainstream forums.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th June 2021, 04:34 PM	#219
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,232	Originally Posted by Venom There's enough of that mindless new Red Scare in 2021 between Fox News, Breitbart, and all the little independent "conservative" media outlets that we can recognize that Marxism isn't a legitimate threat today. It may have been in my grandpa and fathers' days. Young edgy conservative voices like Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson are trying hard to revive it as if it's relevant. That's because most Trumpers don't know the difference between Communism and Democratic Socialism.

8th June 2021, 05:35 PM	#220
Venom Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 5,842	Originally Posted by dudalb I agree, but ,still, it is not a good look for some progressive to basically defend and excuse Communism. Just admit it was a horrid system, prove that more moderate forms of socialism are totally different, and move on. And there are a few hard line Marxist out there, and they are getting pretty loud on some mainstream forums. Sure I agree with this. But I think the main point of contention on this topic is the popular attitude that Marxism is as bad as Nazism. The latter is explicitly authoritarian, genocidal, imperialistic, and espouses eugenics, inequality, and ethno-nationalism. At least communist thought, though naive and disastrous in practice, was born out of an interest in constructing a more just society for the poor and working class. That's a "defense of communism" to the extent that we can point out important differences in the ultimate goals of the two ideologies.

8th June 2021, 05:55 PM	#221
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by dudalb BTW, Indy's use of that pharase in "Last Crusade" is a direct tip of the hat to "The Blues Brothers". Sort of a return for Spielberg's cameo in Brothers. (He is the clerk at the Cook Counry Assesors Office". I did not know that. Originally Posted by dudalb And let's face it, Indy fighting Commies and Aliens in Indy 4 just was not as much fun I don't think the lack of fun had anything to do with commies and aliens. It was just a mediocre script.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

9th June 2021, 04:40 AM	#222
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by Stacyhs That's because most Trumpers don't know the difference between Communism and Democratic Socialism. Trumpers don't know the difference between Communism and mild social democracy.

9th June 2021, 04:44 AM	#223
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Trumpers don't know the difference between Communism and mild social democracy. Trumpsters don't know the difference between communism and a cup of coffee.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

9th June 2021, 05:58 AM	#224
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,548	Originally Posted by dudalb I agree, but ,still, it is not a good look for some progressive to basically defend and excuse Communism. Just admit it was a horrid system, prove that more moderate forms of socialism are totally different, and move on. And there are a few hard line Marxist out there, and they are getting pretty loud on some mainstream forums. Yea now capitalism we have to thank for the Belgian Congo but fortunately no one holds a few million dead blacks against.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

9th June 2021, 07:12 AM	#225
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19,791	Originally Posted by Belz... Trumpsters don't know the difference between communism and a cup of coffee. [MAGA hat]Cup of joe - Uncle Joe... Coincidence ? I think Not .!.[/MAGA hat]
	__________________ Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.

9th June 2021, 07:37 AM	#226
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 39,963	The difference between Communism and Nazism is you can mentioned Nazism on the internet without a liberal screeching that "Real Nazism hasn't been tried yet!" Enough of my liberal friends are at least cozy to the idea of communism that I'm comfortable saying there's some bedfellows there.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th June 2021, 07:54 AM	#227
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Enough of my liberal friends are at least cozy to the idea of communism that I'm comfortable saying there's some bedfellows there. Well, yeah, just like the right-wing and fascism venn diagram has an area in common. Communism is a left-wing ideology, so it's no surprise.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

9th June 2021, 07:56 AM	#228
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,464	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue ..... Enough of my liberal friends are at least cozy to the idea of communism that I'm comfortable saying there's some bedfellows there. What's your idea of "communism?" The right-wing contends that Social Security and Medicare, let alone universal health care and affordable college, smack of "communism," but that doesn't make it so.

9th June 2021, 08:07 AM	#229
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 39,963	Originally Posted by Bob001 What's your idea of "communism?" The right-wing contends that Social Security and Medicare, let alone universal health care and affordable college, smack of "communism," but that doesn't make it so. Let me put it this way. No less then a dozen of my liberal friends; good smart people, shared a meme within the last week that read "We were told Communism is bad by the same people who told us segregation was good." I know every discussion is going to get drawn back to the "Socialism/Communism" thing because there is no argument that you can make that will drag the internet away from splitting a pedantic hair. Communism is still bad. The fact that we had a Red Scare doesn't make Communism good. The fact that the right can't tell the difference between Communism and a hole in the ground does not make Communism good. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. Last edited by JoeMorgue; 9th June 2021 at 08:08 AM.

9th June 2021, 08:17 AM	#230
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,464	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Let me put it this way. No less then a dozen of my liberal friends; good smart people, shared a meme within the last week that read "We were told Communism is bad by the same people who told us segregation was good." I know every discussion is going to get drawn back to the "Socialism/Communism" thing because there is no argument that you can make that will drag the internet away from splitting a pedantic hair. Communism is still bad. The fact that we had a Red Scare doesn't make Communism good. The fact that the right can't tell the difference between Communism and a hole in the ground does not make Communism good. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less. That doesn't answer the question. Communism is the word for brutal totalitarian regimes like Stalinist Russia or Maoist China or today's North Korea. It just has nothing to do with socialist democracies like Sweden or Denmark that share resources across the society. You can't claim that they have anything in common.

9th June 2021, 08:23 AM	#231
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 8,994	Trump was nothing like Hitler. During his lifetime he won awards for hiring the most black workers. None of his rhetoric is racist. He was interested in keeping jobs in American and bringing jobs back that had gone to foreign countries. Nobodies perfect but overall he was a good President.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

9th June 2021, 08:26 AM	#232
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 39,963	Originally Posted by Bob001 That doesn't answer the question. Communism is the word for brutal totalitarian regimes like Stalinist Russia or Maoist China or today's North Korea. It just has nothing to do with socialist democracies like Sweden or Denmark that share resources across the society. You can't claim that they have anything in common. Are you talking to me or a generic advisory that exists in your head? I made no comparison to socialism. I didn't even bring it up. "LOL people don't know the difference between communism and socalism" isn't a valid response to anyone not liking communism.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th June 2021, 08:32 AM	#233
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,548	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue The difference between Communism and Nazism is you can mentioned Nazism on the internet without a liberal screeching that "Real Nazism hasn't been tried yet!" Enough of my liberal friends are at least cozy to the idea of communism that I'm comfortable saying there's some bedfellows there. Well for one thing communism is an economic system while fascism is a political system. So it would be more sensible to compare it to capitalism, and people are fine with the 18 million dead Africans from just King Leopold's actions so that can't really be counted against capitalism. They were worthless blacks after all.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

9th June 2021, 08:35 AM	#234
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,548	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Let me put it this way. No less then a dozen of my liberal friends; good smart people, shared a meme within the last week that read "We were told Communism is bad by the same people who told us segregation was good." I know every discussion is going to get drawn back to the "Socialism/Communism" thing because there is no argument that you can make that will drag the internet away from splitting a pedantic hair. Communism is still bad. The fact that we had a Red Scare doesn't make Communism good. The fact that the right can't tell the difference between Communism and a hole in the ground does not make Communism good. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less. And of course capitalism can never be held accountable for its deaths, because that would be wrong. That is why we have to ignore all those and pretend they were naturally associated with progress. Now bring back hand chopping off to motivate your workers, it worked for Leopold and Columbus and no one seriously thinks they were monsters of some sort.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

9th June 2021, 08:38 AM	#235
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,464	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Are you talking to me or a generic advisory that exists in your head? I made no comparison to socialism. I didn't even bring it up. .... From your post: Quote: I know every discussion is going to get drawn back to the "Socialism/Communism" thing because there is no argument that you can make that will drag the internet away from splitting a pedantic hair. Sounds to me like you don't appreciate the difference.