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19th November 2012, 04:14 PM | #281 |
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19th November 2012, 04:19 PM | #282 |
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19th November 2012, 04:23 PM | #283 |
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19th November 2012, 04:47 PM | #284 |
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19th November 2012, 05:32 PM | #285 |
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
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More than millions. The entire animal life on the planet. Because of a design flaw in his creations, one he didn't fix with mass murder, causing him to send himself on a suicide mission, which, of course, didn't fix the problem either.
Why, again, does anyone worship this clown? |
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19th November 2012, 10:30 PM | #286 |
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Yes. They can. And did. And the vast majority of the population seemed to have no problems with it at all.
Using your argument, if it would have been immoral then the god-given morality in all of us would have caused the entire german population to rise up agains the regime in outrage as the hard-core morality was violated. Either that, or your god actually condoned the actions and thus the german population was quiet and happy as they were acting morally. Now, I don't seem to recall all-out rebellion in the german population when the holocaust and the invasion of europe and the soviet union was going on. Is your claim than that Jesus was happy with that situation? As a relativist I would claim that the nazis could claim that all they want, the rest of humanity disagrees and what is deemed moral and immoral is basically a form of majority voting. The nazi's lost. |
20th November 2012, 02:34 AM | #287 |
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That has absolutely nothing to do with it lol. We are talking about whether or not Einstein (as your example) needed to reference publications by various philosophers as the true and original authors who had genuinely discovered & explained relativity theory. In general, scientific research papers do not need to reference philosophers, ancient or modern, because whilst all sorts of people may at one time or other have made all sorts of guesses about the universe, mere guesses of that sort do not constitute a true discovery or explanation of things such as Relativity or QM (or even Evolution). Most people know that as far back as 400BC Democritus and Leucippus (and others) had proposed the idea of “atoms” as tiny indivisible components of solid visible objects. However, that is not a genuine explanation or discovery in the scientific sense that later emerged with the discovery of sub-atomic particles by scientists like Chadwick and the Curies etc., and the explanations of people like Heisenberg and Dirac. Scientists do not rely on philosophers first explaining to them what they should do in order to study, discover or explain things in our universe. Which is, as I say, why scientific papers rarely if ever need to reference the work of philosophers. I don’t have to "presume" it either -Hawking and most other theoretical physicists have discussed this to death. Time is thought to have a beginning in the sense that what we call "time" would not (according to most current models) have any existence before the inflationary stage of the big bang. Space also has no existence at that point. It is the inflationary Big Bang process itself that leads instantaneously to conversion of a null vacuum energy into the production of "Space-Time" .... the "time" component is part of what we call "space". Although you say you have never heard of such a thing, you can find that explanation in all of Hawkings popular level books. |
20th November 2012, 05:15 AM | #288 |
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20th November 2012, 05:28 AM | #289 |
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20th November 2012, 05:38 AM | #290 |
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Then I'll ask the question I asked earlier in this thread.
'What has philosophy discovered?' I can list the discoveries of science, it is a very long list, so what are the achievements of philosophy, and please, no stealing what scientists have discovered and claiming it for philosophers. |
20th November 2012, 06:28 AM | #291 |
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20th November 2012, 06:38 AM | #292 |
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20th November 2012, 06:51 AM | #293 |
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20th November 2012, 07:09 AM | #294 |
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20th November 2012, 07:10 AM | #295 |
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20th November 2012, 09:13 AM | #296 |
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20th November 2012, 04:55 PM | #297 |
a carbon based life-form
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20th November 2012, 05:06 PM | #298 |
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
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20th November 2012, 05:15 PM | #299 |
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God and devil are the same... it's a matter of perpective.
__________________________________________________ Space isn't time per se. And, the "one thing", as you put it, arises from only the apparent convenience of combining the two directly in those physics-related equations. So, perhaps, a lot of that way of thinking has served to deepen the cosmological "hole" in which it thusly appears those scientists still find themselves. Sounds good, but as Einstein reportedly asked, eg, "What IS light?" Physicists are slow to say what they're really thinking, or to admit to what they haven't a clue. And, it would be a refreshing change to have some good, old-fashioned debate (, eg, even about the Higg's particle here in that thread.) Because brutish equations only beget more equations, as in "pushers get pushed", ask, eg, from where come any equations. Specifically, logically there's not "exactly" any space either at a point. (Likely a good reason that no one has even begun to figure out such a point.) So, all this spatial "wiggling" aside, what now? Don't the rules here say that the new guys can't post up links to other sites? Technically-supportive quote(s) "cry out" for a link. |
20th November 2012, 05:25 PM | #300 |
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Just post it a bit borked.
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20th November 2012, 05:42 PM | #301 |
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Okay, let's all just assume that Einstein never heard of (a "guesser" like) Aristotle, and furthermore, that him, and all the other scientists, "instantaneously" appeared out of that "null vacuum".
All bow down to "the scientists", lol. You win... what? Then don't use the word "probably", as "discussed to death". Oh, i've heard of that. Just not of someone claiming that time comes out of space within such a point, itself. Even the dictionaries no longer recognize the instantaneous or now as being timeless? P.S. Einstein did a lot of guessing/fudging on his own, but nothing of the classic sort that's going to withstand a few millennia, in my opinion. |
20th November 2012, 07:08 PM | #302 |
New Blood
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But can you say with much likelihood that the benefits of that sort of science (in isolation) greatly outweigh the downside? Can science, from this point on, ever (hope to) offset all its outright deaths?
Can you say that the universe's "asking price" has gone up because of some ad hoc scientific advancements. Or that, in a thousand years from now, also the future will still revere the current set of noted scientists? |
20th November 2012, 07:21 PM | #303 |
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Why would you qualify that question with the phrase "in isolation"? What are you trying to get at with the second question? It seems that you are approaching the question as if a body of knowledge or a methodology (science) somehow owes something to humanity... I guess...?
Quote:
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21st November 2012, 04:37 AM | #304 |
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What is 'that sort of science'? Please clarify. In general science's achievements are an increase in knowledge, so again: Any lists of the increase in knowledge found through the application of philosophy?
Quote:
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21st November 2012, 04:42 AM | #305 |
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Holy equivocation, Batman! There you go again...
The Jesus which Erhman (according to you) says existed was a human being. He was not responsible for morality, it existed well before 2000 years ago. Many people do (selectively, to a greater or lesser extent) follow his moral teachings, but they were not original. |
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21st November 2012, 08:07 AM | #306 |
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All humans eventually die.
Scientific advancements have preserved literally billions of lives and almost certainly are responsible for the present population expansion. And every one of those lives only possible because of science will eventually die. So, yes, science is responsible for far more deaths than any other institution in history. |
21st November 2012, 09:19 AM | #307 |
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21st November 2012, 09:28 AM | #308 |
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21st November 2012, 09:35 AM | #309 |
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21st November 2012, 10:00 AM | #310 |
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21st November 2012, 10:02 AM | #311 |
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21st November 2012, 10:09 AM | #312 |
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21st November 2012, 10:12 AM | #313 |
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21st November 2012, 10:37 AM | #314 |
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21st November 2012, 01:13 PM | #315 |
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21st November 2012, 03:05 PM | #316 |
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21st November 2012, 03:39 PM | #317 |
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Reminds me of something I said to my wife the other night, as we were watching a news segment about people trying to save turkeys from being killed for Thanksgiving and adopting them. I said that the turkeys wouldn't have been born in the first place, if people weren't eating them for Thanksgiving, so if everyone turned vegetarian, there would soon be no more turkeys left to save, other than wild turkeys. Same idea.
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21st November 2012, 03:50 PM | #318 |
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21st November 2012, 03:51 PM | #319 |
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21st November 2012, 03:52 PM | #320 |
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Okay, I can put this to bed. If the believers were really good because of a higher authority, why haven't we seen this yet? They've had thousands of years to start behaving morally, and to date, zippo.
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