IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 22nd November 2012, 11:53 AM   #361
Garnabby
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by IanS View Post
This is not worth replying to (it‘s also largely incoherent).
You're the one who applied the word "probably", and later as "discussed to death" to fly off on some tangential rant, right?
Garnabby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 11:55 AM   #362
Gawdzilla Sama
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
 
Gawdzilla Sama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri.
Posts: 42,180
Avalon, do you think Xtians act more morally than atheists?
__________________
Guns that are instantly available for use are instantly available for misuse.
World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources
Hyperwar, WWII Military History
Buying conspiracy books is a voluntary tax on stupid.
Gawdzilla Sama is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 12:01 PM   #363
Garnabby
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
I will also say that I'm confused of this response. All I can gather at this point is a massive anthropomorphizing of 'science'. Can anyone elucidate?
When in doubt, attack?
Garnabby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 12:14 PM   #364
Last of the Fraggles
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,986
Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
The first is whether good and evil are arbitrary. They're not -- that is to say, what is good and what is evil is hard-wired into the fabric of reality.
I admit I skipped a page or two...did we get to the part where Avalon backed up this claim with actual evidence or at least something more than a tortured analogy?
Last of the Fraggles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 12:18 PM   #365
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by Last of the Fraggles View Post
I admit I skipped a page or two...did we get to the part where Avalon backed up this claim with actual evidence or at least something more than a tortured analogy?
We haven't got to that part yet.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 12:25 PM   #366
The Norseman
Meandering fecklessly
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,428
Originally Posted by Garnabby View Post
When in doubt, attack?
Are you implying that I'm attacking you? Or is science attacking theism or what?

With no snark, I am trying to figure out what your point is. If you don't care to attempt to clarify your statements, that's okay, but please don't presume that everyone else understands you because I happen to be the only one to declare my confusion.
__________________
A government is a body of people usually - notably - ungoverned.
-Shepard Book
The Norseman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 12:25 PM   #367
Gawdzilla Sama
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
 
Gawdzilla Sama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri.
Posts: 42,180
Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
We haven't got to that part yet.
Nor ever will.
__________________
Guns that are instantly available for use are instantly available for misuse.
World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources
Hyperwar, WWII Military History
Buying conspiracy books is a voluntary tax on stupid.
Gawdzilla Sama is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 01:01 PM   #368
Last of the Fraggles
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,986
Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
We haven't got to that part yet.
Cool. I haven't missed anything yet.

Do you never wonder why the theists are so damn keen to let us in on their big secrets? They know all this stuff, they seem like they want me to believe it too, but they never quite get round to putting the cards on the table and showing me what they promise.

I guess they're busy people.
Last of the Fraggles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 01:02 PM   #369
Gawdzilla Sama
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
 
Gawdzilla Sama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri.
Posts: 42,180
Originally Posted by Last of the Fraggles View Post
Cool. I haven't missed anything yet.

Do you never wonder why the theists are so damn keen to let us in on their big secrets? They know all this stuff, they seem like they want me to believe it too, but they never quite get round to putting the cards on the table and showing me what they promise.

I guess they're busy people.
Delusions shared are delusions multiplied.
__________________
Guns that are instantly available for use are instantly available for misuse.
World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources
Hyperwar, WWII Military History
Buying conspiracy books is a voluntary tax on stupid.
Gawdzilla Sama is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 01:03 PM   #370
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by Last of the Fraggles View Post
Cool. I haven't missed anything yet.

Do you never wonder why the theists are so damn keen to let us in on their big secrets? They know all this stuff, they seem like they want me to believe it too, but they never quite get round to putting the cards on the table and showing me what they promise.

I guess they're busy people.
Their only evidence is a primitive version of Harry Potter so they don't have many cards to put on the table.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 02:40 PM   #371
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 33,127
Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
How's willful ignorance working out for you?
Yours? It's frustrating, I admit, but I won't give up on you. I'm ever hopeful that you'll give up your childhood delusions.

Quote:
It must be boring talking to people without bothering to actually listen to anything they say.
I'll have to take your word for it.

Quote:
I guess the satisfaction you get for tripping them up with your simplistic questions makes up for it.
Not as much as the satisfaction you get from not answering them. How can questions trip up the truth?

Quote:
He shouldn't be.
No, I hold no illusions that you'll be able to do more than make unfounded assertions.

Ok, enough word play. Any chance of you actually providing evidence for your favorite brand of sky daddy and that obeying its whims is a universal good?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 03:13 PM   #372
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Their only evidence is a primitive version of Harry Potter so they don't have many cards to put on the table.
Every time they put their cards on the table we see they're bluffing. Oddly they still try to claim the pot.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 03:22 PM   #373
Gawdzilla Sama
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
 
Gawdzilla Sama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri.
Posts: 42,180
Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Every time they put their cards on the table we see they're bluffing. Oddly they still try to claim the pot.
Nothing sadder than when a liar starts believing their own lies.
__________________
Guns that are instantly available for use are instantly available for misuse.
World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources
Hyperwar, WWII Military History
Buying conspiracy books is a voluntary tax on stupid.
Gawdzilla Sama is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 05:02 PM   #374
Garnabby
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Are you implying that I'm attacking you? Or is science attacking theism or what?
Well, i think that stuff would be more overly-anthropomorphic than someone who usually refers to himself as "i", and (above) declares that humans per se "take themselves [beyond] too-seriously".

Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
If you don't care to attempt to clarify your statements, that's okay.
Not sure that that's what you, or the others, really want. It's odd how everyone has "made up its mind", but while "the jury is still out". Eg, the "I'm okay, you're okay" series of books puts that time frame at about 4 to 5 years of age. And, has to literally be millions of long-forgot (but "endlessly" paraphrased) message-board pages scattered across the internet... and scarcely a sincere reply of the sort, "My god, I didn't know that. I was such a fool. Thank you for sharing."

Beyond what i have written here, in its limited scope, skipping to an answer at the back of an algebra book, well, isn't quite the same as to an actual working theory of everything. How could such be even the work of one author, let alone one's to "lay title to"? But mainly, people like to "make their own mistakes", perhaps an odd "excuse" for not really looking for such in specific, or even in general, anyway.

And i like to openly "talk to myself" a lot. Motivation, and sometimes to jiggle something into place (to finally discover what that something was).

P.S. No philosophers/scientists were killed in the researching of this post. Lol.
Garnabby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 05:10 PM   #375
Garnabby
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Nothing sadder than when a liar starts believing their own lies.
Or, when you realize that you have to first know the truth.
Garnabby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 05:29 PM   #376
Gawdzilla Sama
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
 
Gawdzilla Sama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri.
Posts: 42,180
Originally Posted by Garnabby View Post
Or, when you realize that you have to first know the truth.
What truth would that be?
__________________
Guns that are instantly available for use are instantly available for misuse.
World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources
Hyperwar, WWII Military History
Buying conspiracy books is a voluntary tax on stupid.
Gawdzilla Sama is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2012, 05:49 PM   #377
GeeMack
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,235
Originally Posted by Last of the Fraggles View Post
Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
The first is whether good and evil are arbitrary. They're not -- that is to say, what is good and what is evil is hard-wired into the fabric of reality.

I admit I skipped a page or two...did we get to the part where Avalon backed up this claim with actual evidence or at least something more than a tortured analogy?

The magical stuff the religious believe can't be backed up with actual evidence. Unfortunately tortured analogies are pretty much all the faithful have. Also unfortunately, the typical theist doesn't seem to have the honesty to simply admit their silly beliefs are a matter of faith and can't be supported with evidence.

The answer to your question is no actual evidence has been, or ever will be provided. We will not get an honest, reasoned response from AvalonXQ, and the assertion will remain unsupported.

Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Nothing sadder than when a liar starts believing their own lies.

You can say that again.
GeeMack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 01:26 AM   #378
IanS
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,692
Originally Posted by Garnabby View Post
You're the one who applied the word "probably", and later as "discussed to death" to fly off on some tangential rant, right?


Well that just continues to be "incoherent".

There's nothing left to discuss. The inescapable fact is that scientists do not normally reference earlier philosophers, because the earlier philosophical beliefs are not directly relevant to the science .
IanS is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 03:48 AM   #379
DOC
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,959
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
You still aren't answering the question that is asked. Is it moral behavior to commit genocide and murder millions in a global flood?
Yes, if the innocent are sent to heaven which a just God would do. The bible says God is just.
DOC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 04:02 AM   #380
DOC
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,959
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Bart Ehrman believes Jesus certainly existed, so Christians (who believe morality comes from Jesus) can claim morality does not come from an imaginary being (imaginary being was the wording mentioned in the quote I responded to.)
Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Does his belief {Ehrman} make the existence of Jesus more likely?
Depends on how much you value the opinion of skeptic Bart Ehrman.

If Barack Obama said he saw an alien in his bedroom last night, I would think it would be more likely to be true than if some unknown person off the street said the same thing to me.
DOC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 04:30 AM   #381
Lukraak_Sisser
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,265
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Yes, if the innocent are sent to heaven which a just God would do. The bible says God is just.
The bible says a lot of things.
So does the koran, the torah and every other religious text.
Proof.. that's where they are short on.

Coming back to your little godwin.
You claim that without absolute morality we cannot judge the nazi regime for its crimes.
Yet I cannot help but notice you never explained why appearantly the absolute morality in germany during the nazi years was different from the absolute morality of the western world, as there were no major revolts in germany during that time, indicating noone really felt immoral acts were being performed.
Lukraak_Sisser is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 04:31 AM   #382
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,804
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Yes, if the innocent are sent to heaven which a just God would do. The bible says God is just.
Quite an important little "if" there.......

The existence or otherwise of that "if" can be used by terrorists and despots to justify the mass murder of civilians, by your logic.

Mike
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 04:51 AM   #383
Last of the Fraggles
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,986
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Yes, if the innocent are sent to heaven which a just God would do. The bible says God is just.
Literally, kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!

That being the case its probably best just to slaughter newborn babies before they get the chance to sin too much.
Last of the Fraggles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 06:56 AM   #384
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 33,127
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Yes, if the innocent are sent to heaven which a just God would do. The bible says God is just.
Is it moral behavior to fly an airplane into a building killing 3000 if god says it is just?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 06:57 AM   #385
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 33,127
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Depends on how much you value the opinion of skeptic Bart Ehrman.
That's a good point. Do you value the opinion of Bart Ehrman?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 07:01 AM   #386
zeggman
Graduate Poster
 
zeggman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,911
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Yes, if the innocent are sent to heaven which a just God would do. The bible says God is just.
So really abortion just means all those souls go straight to heaven without ever experiencing the pain and suffering of the world or being exposed to the possibility that they will fail to accept Jesus as their backstage pass to the pearly gates.

Properly viewed, abortionists may save more souls than Jesus, and may be more moral than Jesus to boot. THEIR sacrifice is to burn in hell for all eternity, while Jesus just dropped in for a couple of days, said "the hell with this" and split.

Or, since they're saving all those souls, maybe a just God sneaks them into heaven too. In which case, I guess they're not QUITE as moral as Jesus, but still exemplary role models.
zeggman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 09:39 AM   #387
I Ratant
Penultimate Amazing
 
I Ratant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,258
The imperfections in the mammalian reproductive process sends 50% of all those conceived to heaven, within about the first month after conception.
Lots of sin-free zygotes up there.
I Ratant is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 02:51 PM   #388
zeggman
Graduate Poster
 
zeggman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,911
Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
The imperfections in the mammalian reproductive process sends 50% of all those conceived to heaven, within about the first month after conception.
Lots of sin-free zygotes up there.
Must be hard for them to sing God's praise, though.
zeggman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2012, 09:48 PM   #389
The Norseman
Meandering fecklessly
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,428
Originally Posted by Garnabby View Post
And i like to openly "talk to myself" a lot. Motivation, and sometimes to jiggle something into place (to finally discover what that something was).
Okay, I'll just let you two get back to it then.
__________________
A government is a body of people usually - notably - ungoverned.
-Shepard Book
The Norseman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2012, 08:34 PM   #390
Garnabby
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by IanS View Post
The inescapable fact is that scientists do not normally reference earlier philosophers, because the earlier philosophical beliefs are not directly relevant to the science.
More faulty logic, to say the least, lol.
Garnabby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2012, 08:37 PM   #391
Garnabby
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Okay, I'll just let you two get back to it then.
Thank you, the pleasure's all mine.
Garnabby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2012, 08:38 PM   #392
Garnabby
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
What truth would that be?
There are no absolutes, except for what absoluteness is... everything.
Garnabby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2012, 08:57 PM   #393
Gawdzilla Sama
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
 
Gawdzilla Sama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri.
Posts: 42,180
Originally Posted by Garnabby View Post
There are no absolutes, except for what absoluteness is... everything.
Can I get a different fortune cookie, this one doesn't make any sense.
__________________
Guns that are instantly available for use are instantly available for misuse.
World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources
Hyperwar, WWII Military History
Buying conspiracy books is a voluntary tax on stupid.
Gawdzilla Sama is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2012, 09:37 PM   #394
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by Garnabby View Post
There are no absolutes, except for what absoluteness is... everything.
The Magic 8 Ball says:

Reply hazy Try again.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2012, 12:04 AM   #395
Acleron
Master Poster
 
Acleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,290
Originally Posted by Garnabby View Post
There are no absolutes, except for what absoluteness is... everything.
A suffusion of yellow.
Acleron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2012, 05:33 AM   #396
DOC
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,959
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
That's a good point. Do you value the opinion of Bart Ehrman?
Well {Bart Ehrman} says "Jesus certainly existed" in his latest book. He also said there are solid reasons to believe Judas betrayed Jesus. I agree with those. He also says that he is an agnostic leaning more to Jesus not being divine -- I don't agree with that.

Last edited by DOC; 25th November 2012 at 05:46 AM. Reason: add Ehrman's name
DOC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2012, 05:36 AM   #397
Last of the Fraggles
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,986
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Well he says "Jesus certainly existed" in is latest book. He also said there are solid reasons to believe Judas betrayed Jesus. I agree with those. He also says that he is an agnostic leaning more to Jesus not being divine -- I don't agree with that.
So he's right when he agrees with you and wrong when he doesn't?

Seems like the only opinion you value is your own.
Last of the Fraggles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2012, 07:12 AM   #398
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 33,127
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Well {Bart Ehrman} says "Jesus certainly existed" in his latest book. He also said there are solid reasons to believe Judas betrayed Jesus. I agree with those. He also says that he is an agnostic leaning more to Jesus not being divine -- I don't agree with that.
Only valuing someone's opinion when it agrees with your own is very shallow and minimizes your argument. Since you've cited Bart Ehrman, you must also agree with his opinion that there was no divine Jesus. I agree with you, Jesus may have existed. Many Jesusii may have existed as itinerant preachers since the name Jesus and itinerant preachers abounded. I also agree with your citation of Bart Ehrman's opinion that none of them was divine.

Now that we've established that Jesus wasn't divine, can you answer the original question of why you believe a mortal man is the basis for morality? As a follow on question, where did morals come from before that?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2012, 08:04 AM   #399
GeeMack
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,235
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Now that we've established that Jesus wasn't divine, can you answer the original question of why you believe a mortal man is the basis for morality? As a follow on question, where did morals come from before that?

And why was that particular mortal man a better model for morality than, say, Mohandas Gandhi, or even Genghis Khan?
GeeMack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2012, 08:10 AM   #400
Gawdzilla Sama
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
 
Gawdzilla Sama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri.
Posts: 42,180
Originally Posted by GeeMack View Post
And why was that particular mortal man a better model for morality than, say, Mohandas Gandhi, or even Genghis Khan?
Xtians steadfastly ignore the moral nature of other religions/cultures. It invalidates "No Jesus, no good!".
__________________
Guns that are instantly available for use are instantly available for misuse.
World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources
Hyperwar, WWII Military History
Buying conspiracy books is a voluntary tax on stupid.
Gawdzilla Sama is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:38 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.